I'm usually the guy who tells people to not be pussies and look at the results first. Don't do it this time - DON'T LOOK DOWN IF YOU'RE NOT UP TO DATE. There's to be no crying in my ears if you do!!
Okay, finally saw Jaedong's 2fer last night. I expected good games but I didn't think they'd be this good. These are no doubt the kind of games you get once every so often... But twice in one night, hoho, I can only imagine the ménage-à-trois-ness of having watched live
Anyway, is anybody gonna translate the new JD interview? The interview covers all the burning questions / dispels a TON of crackpiping from the spoiler thread.
Post here if you're on it. I don't want anybody to waste time if more than one guy happens to be doing it. That includes me. It's a very informative interview and a good sign for the future of zerg
-Edit: Interview translated in 2 parts, find them below, big help from RamenStyle.
Jaedong: With proper queen usage, Zerg shall be even stronger
Q: Your ensnare-darkswarm use today was awesome. JD: I had tried it before a lot of times, both in practice and tv games, but this time I wanted to come up with a build where I would be able to use this effectively. Lately, I haven't been doing that well against terran, and I was worried about it. I thought that if I played like I always do, I'll be beat, so I was struggling to come up with some innovative build when the coach suggested queen use, especially since the map(SCPR) was kinda fit for it.
Q: Why do you think this hasn't been effective before? JD: I think the reason that kind of strategy didn't work is because queens were only used for showoff, in a way that didn't really matter if it worked or not. If it worked, good, if not, well, big deal.
Q: Were you thinking about using the queen if Fantasy would've come up with mechanic? JD: If he went mechanic, I would have opted for another strategy. But he went bionic, so I was able to show it.
Q: Will you keep using this queen/defiler combo in the future? It's hard to say, because there are already units like defiles that take a lot of attention and micro, and adding a queen to the equation, you might have too much on your plate and could lose focus and throw the game. However, if the timing is good, the use of a queen could tip the balance to your side.
Personally, I will continue to use it a lot in the future. I practiced really hard, and still it was tough. It's hard to get used to having another unit to pay attention to, but if you get used to it, it might let [zerg] evolve one step further. Of course it takes a lot of micro, but if other zergs try hard enough, I think they can use it too. They should stop trying to go the safe/comfortable way, and instead try this at least once.
Q: Where you trying to infest the nat cc? Well, the opponent wasn't lifting his cc, so I was going to infest it but my timing was one step behind and it got destroyed. Anyways, my queen wasn't initially at that spot to infest the cc.
Q: How did it go during practice? During practice, terrans told me it was really annoying. Even knowing about it, it was troublesome to deal with, so that gave me confidence.
Q: Did you expect to face Bisu in the ace set? JD: I figured that it would be one of the protoss players. BeSt took out ZerO on Destination in a recent ace match. But I didn't think it'd be Bisu.
Q: Did you think he'd DT harass? JD: I was 100% sure he would. But I wasn't able to defend against it perfectly. Between the maynards and the hydras pacing back-n-forth, I'd accumulated a disadvantage. So to recoup my loss I attacked the 10 o'clock expo.
Q: Your HT-sniping was excellent JD: At that point in the game I knew the templars each had 2 storms, so I sent in mutas. Though I lost them all, it was well worth it.
Q: At what point during the game you knew you had won? After I killed all the HT, our armies clashed in the middle of the map. I knew the game was mine after I wiped out all of the dragoons.
And the rest is pretty standard. When asked how he feels about the 6 dragons, he says that with confidence and a strict focus on the game and not the player, he's sure to win. When asked how he feel being 1 win away from the top of the "most win in PL" ranking, he says there's not much to think about, and that it's constantly being updated so he's able to catch up whenever.
Oh and JaeDong wants everyone to bask in the festival atmosphere of Christmas and have an exciting new year. In the meantime he'll be practicing hard for his MSL survivor group come Jan 1st.
I must say that I enjoyed the queen/defiler combo, but the game vs bisu was JUST. SO. DAMN. GOOD. Bisu pulled out every vZ trick, every single one that helped take him to the top - sair reaver, sair dt, drop harass, rolling army with mass-unit-killing HT/reaver combo... And the ending was so so gnarly, I don't think I've ever seen this many toss units explode in unison, like christmas fireworks.
Ok, I'm feeling too lazy to translate it all, but for the xmas spirit, I'll focus in what he said overall the queen ensnare thing.
Q: Your ensnare-darkswarm use today was awesome. JD: I had tried it before a lot of times, both in practice and tv games, but this time I wanted to come up with a build where I would be able to use this effectively. Lately, I haven't been doing that well against terran, and I was worried about it. I thought that if I played like I always do, I'll be beat, so I was struggling to come up with some innovative build when the coach suggested queen use, especially since the map(SCPR) was kinda fit for it.
Q: Why do you think this hasn't been effective before? JD: I think the reason that kind of strategy didn't work is because queens were only used for showoff, in a way that didn't really matter if it worked or not. If it worked, good, if not, well, big deal.
Q: Were you thinking about using the queen if Fantasy would've come up with mechanic? JD: If he went mechanic, I would have opted for another strategy. But he went bionic, so I was able to show it.
Q: Will you keep using this queen/defiler combo in the future? It's hard to say, because there are already units like defiles that take a lot of attention and micro, and adding a queen to the equation, you might have too much on your plate and could lose focus and throw the game. However, if the timing is good, the use of a queen could tip the balance to your side.
Personally, I will continue to use it a lot in the future. I practiced really hard, and still it was tough. It's hard to get used to having another unit to pay attention to, but if you get used to it, it might let [zerg] evolve one step further. Of course it takes a lot of micro, but if other zergs try hard enough, I think they can use it too. They should stop trying to go the safe/comfortable way, and instead try this at least once.
Q: Where you trying to infest the nat cc? Well, the opponent wasn't lifting his cc, so I was going to infest it but my timing was one step behind and it got destroyed. Anyways, my queen wasn't initially at that spot to infest the cc.
Q: How did it go during practice? During practice, terrans told me it was really annoying. Even knowing about it, it was troublesome to deal with, so that gave me confidence.
That's the part about the queen usage. There is no much more left of the interview, but I just need to get a nap. I'm sure someone else will complete it for you guys. Anyways, I'm guessing the part everyone was looking for was about the queen ensnare, so merry xmas!
EDIT: Fixed typo. Thanks to Zortch for spotting it.
Yes!!! The Jaedong build, it's official folks! How effective and useful it will be in the long run, we will see. The two hatch muta got countered quite quickly.
God I'm excited. I mean, I don't think there is a zerg player on this board who hasn't theory wanked Queen usage. It has taken so long but it's here. I'm equally happy that it would be JAEDONG, out of everyone else, who will lead the way. (Well actually, didn't Chojja use queens a lot?)
I'm happy with Jaedong's newest, latest role as the zerg revolutionist (Though he really has been doing so for the last year). It looks like he's been working really hard to try and innovate, and he's not gonna stop any time soon.
It could become a staple in Zerg play as long as the Zerg users are not stubborn to learn. The good thing about queens is that they are along the tech tree and work quite well with pure lurkling and especially lurkling defiler.
And you don't have to use them all the time, just use them when you feel comfortable before the crazy macro game starts.
Thanks for the translation! ^^ I hope the queen gets more use. Another unit could open up new strategies all over the place.
Found a tiny typo btw
On December 24 2008 22:48 RamenStyle wrote: Q: Where you thinking about using the queen if Fantasy would've come up with mechanic? JD: If he went mechanic, I would have opted for another strategy. But he went bionic, so I was able to show it.
That first where should be were i assume. No big deal of course just thuoght I'd mention it.
Jaedong: With proper queen usage, Zerg shall be even stronger
Q: Did you expect to face Bisu in the ace set? JD: I figured that it would be one of the protoss players. BeSt took out ZerO on Destination in a recent ace match. But I didn't think it'd be Bisu.
Q: Did you think he'd DT harass? JD: I was 100% sure he would. But I wasn't able to defend against it perfectly. Between the maynards and the hydras pacing back-n-forth, I'd accumulated a disadvantage. So to recoup my loss I attacked the 10 o'clock expo.
Q: Your HT-sniping was excellent JD: At that point in the game I knew the templars each had 2 storms, so I sent in mutas. Though I lost them all, it was well worth it.
Q: At what point during the game you knew you had won? After I killed all the HT, our armies clashed in the middle of the map. I knew the game was mine after I wiped out all of the dragoons.
And the rest is pretty standard. When asked how he feels about the 6 dragons, he says that with confidence and a strict focus on the game and not the player, he's sure to win. When asked how he feel being 1 win away from the top of the "most win in PL" ranking, he says there's not much to think about, and that it's constantly being updated so he's able to catch up whenever.
Oh and JaeDong wants everyone to bask in the festival atmosphere of Christmas and have an exciting new year. In the meantime he'll be practicing hard for his MSL survivor group come Jan 1st.
@ Gearitup why would you use scouts? Use sairs for anti-air, use reavers for harass, scouts do no damage and cost a shitload. You could get a shuttle and a templar for that same price! I wouldn't touch the S button except for the humiliation factor.
As for queens, now high-APM zerg will be rewarded with parasiting and broodling against all races - imagine parasiting an enemy observer and spying on the protoss army, and spawning broodlings on templar! Now to find a way to push back that +1 archon/zealot push, hehehe ...
Ensnare also seems to be a great spell to slow down enemy armies for flanks; almost seems like WC3-level micro, except on a large scale against large armies. I have to admit, good PvZs are beautiful to watch, especially when the zerg rolls over the protoss.
Hm if they parasited my observer I would probably trash it... Whereas you cant trash a science vessel as easily they are too expensive, (I hope everyone saw him parasite a vessel)
On December 24 2008 22:48 RamenStyle wrote: Q: Will you keep using this queen/defiler combo in the future? It's hard to say, because there are already units like defiles that take a lot of attention and micro, and adding a queen to the equation, you might have too much on your plate and could lose focus and throw the game. However, if the timing is good, the use of a queen could tip the balance to your side.
Personally, I will continue to use it a lot in the future. I practiced really hard, and still it was tough. It's hard to get used to having another unit to pay attention to, but if you get used to it, it might let [zerg] evolve one step further. Of course it takes a lot of micro, but if other zergs try hard enough, I think they can use it too. They should stop trying to go the safe/comfortable way, and instead try this at least once.
I'll quote this for all players thinking that "progamers can do everything" (e.g. Idra who in some thread asked me for an example when I said that SC requires too much multitasking even for progamers - of course anything I would have said would have been ignored, but now here you have one answer, from the best Z in the world).
Pros can't do everything, in games which take longer than 15 minutes their attention begins to falter and while they're still quite amazing compared to us trashy players, they're still far from perfect so that using 2 micro intensive spellcasters in late game can be a very tough thing to do, and now there's the question if this is really a good thing that it is that hard to do... if the best Z in the world has trouble doing it because of the insane multitasking requirements, all other players can probably just forget about it completely, and that's a shame... because it's an interesting unit which is underused only because of multitasking being too hard.
Queens have their uses, that's for sure. Although not as powerful as defilers their mobility counts for a lot.
I like to broodling templars instead of using a control group of mutas. Personally it seems more cost effective and it isn't much more in the way of micro.. I wonder if JD will ever try that out.
On December 24 2008 22:48 RamenStyle wrote: Q: Will you keep using this queen/defiler combo in the future? It's hard to say, because there are already units like defiles that take a lot of attention and micro, and adding a queen to the equation, you might have too much on your plate and could lose focus and throw the game. However, if the timing is good, the use of a queen could tip the balance to your side.
Personally, I will continue to use it a lot in the future. I practiced really hard, and still it was tough. It's hard to get used to having another unit to pay attention to, but if you get used to it, it might let [zerg] evolve one step further. Of course it takes a lot of micro, but if other zergs try hard enough, I think they can use it too. They should stop trying to go the safe/comfortable way, and instead try this at least once.
I'll quote this for all players thinking that "progamers can do everything" (e.g. Idra who in some thread asked me for an example when I said that SC requires too much multitasking even for progamers - of course anything I would have said would have been ignored, but now here you have one answer, from the best Z in the world).
Pros can't do everything, in games which take longer than 15 minutes their attention begins to falter and while they're still quite amazing compared to us trashy players, they're still far from perfect so that using 2 micro intensive spellcasters in late game can be a very tough thing to do, and now there's the question if this is really a good thing that it is that hard to do... if the best Z in the world has trouble doing it because of the insane multitasking requirements, all other players can probably just forget about it completely, and that's a shame... because it's an interesting unit which is underused only because of multitasking being too hard.
yeah, and thats a good thing, JaeDong talks about improving even more, this is true competition, improving with no limits, over the human condition. Imagine if he wasnt talking about improving but about a limit, things are good the way they are
On December 25 2008 00:08 .risingdragoon wrote: Nice job Ramen. I'll finish off the 2nd half.
Jaedong: With proper queen usage, Zerg shall be even stronger
Q: Did you expect to face Bisu in the ace set? JD: I figured that it would be one of the protoss players. BeSt took out ZerO on Destination in a recent ace match. But I didn't think it'd be Bisu.
Q: Did you think he'd DT harass? JD: I was 100% sure he would. But I wasn't able to defend against it perfectly. Between the maynards and the hydras pacing back-n-forth, I'd accumulated a disadvantage. So to recoup my loss I attacked the 10 o'clock expo.
Q: Your HT-sniping was excellent JD: At that point in the game I knew the templars each had 2 storms, so I sent in mutas. Though I lost them all, it was well worth it.
Q: At what point during the game you knew you had won? After I killed all the HT, our armies clashed in the middle of the map. I knew the game was mine after I wiped out all of the dragoons.
And the rest is pretty standard. When asked how he feels about the 6 dragons, he says that with confidence and a strict focus on the game and not the player, he's sure to win. When asked how he feel being 1 win away from the top of the "most win in PL" ranking, he says there's not much to think about, and that it's constantly being updated so he's able to catch up whenever.
Oh and JaeDong wants everyone to bask in the festival atmosphere of Christmas and have an exciting new year. In the meantime he'll be practicing hard for his MSL survivor group come Jan 1st.
jesus that's a lot of deep thinking. How many of us are thinking 'hmm, his templars have 2 storms'? WTF.
On December 24 2008 22:48 RamenStyle wrote: Q: Will you keep using this queen/defiler combo in the future? It's hard to say, because there are already units like defiles that take a lot of attention and micro, and adding a queen to the equation, you might have too much on your plate and could lose focus and throw the game. However, if the timing is good, the use of a queen could tip the balance to your side.
Personally, I will continue to use it a lot in the future. I practiced really hard, and still it was tough. It's hard to get used to having another unit to pay attention to, but if you get used to it, it might let [zerg] evolve one step further. Of course it takes a lot of micro, but if other zergs try hard enough, I think they can use it too. They should stop trying to go the safe/comfortable way, and instead try this at least once.
I'll quote this for all players thinking that "progamers can do everything" (e.g. Idra who in some thread asked me for an example when I said that SC requires too much multitasking even for progamers - of course anything I would have said would have been ignored, but now here you have one answer, from the best Z in the world).
Pros can't do everything, in games which take longer than 15 minutes their attention begins to falter and while they're still quite amazing compared to us trashy players, they're still far from perfect so that using 2 micro intensive spellcasters in late game can be a very tough thing to do, and now there's the question if this is really a good thing that it is that hard to do... if the best Z in the world has trouble doing it because of the insane multitasking requirements, all other players can probably just forget about it completely, and that's a shame... because it's an interesting unit which is underused only because of multitasking being too hard.
Well, that is not to say it can't be used on lower levels, that is similar to saying that incredible muta harass can't be pulled off by your average gamer, which is perfectly true. However a lessor form of muta harass is still viable and effective.
Just like that, I would say ensnare use by Zergs at all levels would be useful, if pulled off more or less right. When you are a crazy Korean Zerg and you are focusing on so many things, casting plague like a nutjob, microing/macroing setting up flanks simultanously, yeah throwing in a few queens to control will be a pain in the ass, yet possible. So on lower levels we do everything at a lessor level, this would just be another one of those things.
On December 25 2008 00:08 .risingdragoon wrote: Nice job Ramen. I'll finish off the 2nd half.
Jaedong: With proper queen usage, Zerg shall be even stronger
Q: Did you expect to face Bisu in the ace set? JD: I figured that it would be one of the protoss players. BeSt took out ZerO on Destination in a recent ace match. But I didn't think it'd be Bisu.
Q: Did you think he'd DT harass? JD: I was 100% sure he would. But I wasn't able to defend against it perfectly. Between the maynards and the hydras pacing back-n-forth, I'd accumulated a disadvantage. So to recoup my loss I attacked the 10 o'clock expo.
Q: Your HT-sniping was excellent JD: At that point in the game I knew the templars each had 2 storms, so I sent in mutas. Though I lost them all, it was well worth it.
Q: At what point during the game you knew you had won? After I killed all the HT, our armies clashed in the middle of the map. I knew the game was mine after I wiped out all of the dragoons.
And the rest is pretty standard. When asked how he feels about the 6 dragons, he says that with confidence and a strict focus on the game and not the player, he's sure to win. When asked how he feel being 1 win away from the top of the "most win in PL" ranking, he says there's not much to think about, and that it's constantly being updated so he's able to catch up whenever.
Oh and JaeDong wants everyone to bask in the festival atmosphere of Christmas and have an exciting new year. In the meantime he'll be practicing hard for his MSL survivor group come Jan 1st.
jesus that's a lot of deep thinking. How many of us are thinking 'hmm, his templars have 2 storms'? WTF.
Me.
I've lost too many times due to Protoss turtling while massing army and energy. That's why muta sniping is extremely important in ZvP.
If you don't keep the templar count low your shit will explode during battle.
EPT
