EPT[MSL] Savior Watch - Page 3
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36387 Posts
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
On September 14 2008 03:05 Hot_Bid wrote: Again, it is outlandish to say Savior is a favourite against Kal. In fact, its outlandish to say Savior would be guaranteed to take a single game out of Kal in a b05. I, personally, would be surprised. I agree Jangbi should maybe should be moved up to the "slight favorite" category, but its close. I moved Lomo up, he's a favorite or at least 50/50. Kal has played 3 PvZs in the past three months, a win over thezerg and 0-2 vs Effort to be knocked out of Incruit. It's not outlandish to think its a tossup between him and Savior, as Kal hasn't been consistent or shown good results lately. Hwasin would be higher if he wasn't playing so poorly recently (0-3 vs thezerg). Until Stork wins one, he will always be an underdog vs an elite Z no matter what, especially vs Savior given their history. My little chart was a rough estimation of Savior's chances versus each player right now, not the player playing at his best. Here is how I decided: if your life depended on a bo5 between two guys, who would you bet on? (be honest). | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36387 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Fan favorite that is. | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
On September 14 2008 13:51 Hot_Bid wrote: I'm sorry, but Savior has won like 1:4 of his games in the past 8 or so months- I don't see Savior as capable of taking one game off of the vast majority of the upper echelons of pro gaming. I would love to be proven wrong though, but I doubt that'll happen. why? their ELOs are similar, Savior has a stronger ZvP than ZvT, and Kal's been slumping, he's 1-2 in PvZ's in the last four months (1-0 vs thezerg, 0-2 vs effort). you could argue they are more 50/50 than Savior being a favorite, but guaranteed to not take a single game bo5? thats ridiculous. you are really overrating Kal and underrating just how close all these progamers are to each other. Edit: And your sample size of kals pvz is simply too small. Three games doesn't show whether hes still the best pvz in the world or slumping in that match up. Hell, nothing shows hes even slumping conclusively. Kal has always been a middle ground pro gamer. Hes never going to go on huge streaks, hes never going to go on huge slumps either. Hes capable of overcoming the strong player, and hes capable of not. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36387 Posts
On September 14 2008 15:01 ScarFace wrote: I'm sorry, but Savior has won like 1:4 of his games in the past 8 or so months- I don't see Savior as capable of taking one game off of the vast majority of the upper echelons of pro gaming. I would love to be proven wrong though, but I doubt that'll happen. Edit: And your sample size of kals pvz is simply too small. Three games doesn't show whether hes still the best pvz in the world or slumping in that match up. Hell, nothing shows hes even slumping conclusively. Kal has always been a middle ground pro gamer. Hes never going to go on huge streaks, hes never going to go on huge slumps either. Hes capable of overcoming the strong player, and hes capable of not. In the last four months ZvP/PvZ, Savior is 3-2 (1-2 vs Free, 2-0 vs Spear), Kal is 1-2. Progaming is streaky and players rise and fall quite greatly in a few months. I'd say their games in the last few months are much more indicative of how they will play in the future than in the last year. You argued that it was outlandish to even suggest Savior could take one game off Kal, not off the upper echelons of progaming. Kal != the upper echelons of progaming. Dude made 1 MSL final and bombed completely in it and has been middle of the pack ever since. Let's not overstate the difference between players, everyone is drastically close. Even in the games bad players lose to good ones, often the game swings on very small things. It's now outrageous to just suggest the possibility of Savior taking one game off a mediocre PvZ protoss (yes, Kal is mediocre)? That's nuts. Your own argument is contradictory, you're saying Kal has always been a middle ground guy, not going on huge streaks or huge slumps and being generally ordinary. This is the type of guy that Savior "has no chance of taking one game" against? That's illogical. Of course Savior has a chance against Kal in a Bo5, but you didn't even argue against that, you said Savior has no chance to simply take a game. Anyone that knows anything about progaming realizes that's not even remotely true. | ||
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Fwmeh
1286 Posts
Bisu is 7-10 agianst zerg this year, with losses to such ZvP powerhouses as Calm, Zero and Yarnac. He is also 0-2 against Luxury in recent memory, since so many people like to pretend that Luxury is bad ZvP. All the while, Kal lost to Jaedong (who doesnt?) and had 1 off day against effort. And yet you think he is instawin against savior, and Kal is not? Sorry, I do not agree at all. And as for Stork, I would give him even or good odds against any zerg not named Jaedong, the even odds being July. And right now I would not give any protoss even odds against Jaedong, not Kal, and def not Bisu. | ||
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Uraeus
France1378 Posts
On September 14 2008 18:14 Fwmeh wrote: Bisu is 7-10 agianst zerg this year, [...] and yet you think he is instawin against savior, and Kal is not? Sorry, I do not agree at all. Bisu vs Savior is something special. Don't forget Bisu was the one who took MJY down. He singlehandedly ended Savior's domination of the Korean scene by breaking his confidence. There is a lot more to it than just TLPD stats. Savior facing Bisu would be in an even worse state of mind than facing FBH. Mind Games, remember? As for Kal, I second the 50% chance. Depending mostly on Kal's inspiration. | ||
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Makhno
Sweden585 Posts
MJY recent games are a bit shaky but he did get into this round and that's what counts. If he can get past this round aswell he'll probably be facing alot of the top-tier players who are in both the MSL and the OSL which will give him an edge, being in one league. For some reason I'm not even worried about the ro32, it's like I know he's going to make it. When you see that stone cold CJ-face and emotionless determination you just know he's about to bring the MF-ing pain. | ||
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iceburn
United States303 Posts
Tribute, I think this a why we need to see him rise again not a tribute but a highlight of what we want to see again i know this has been posted before but i think its always a good watch | ||
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Felagund
Philippines504 Posts
 Enedwaith, I know we'd never see a god-like sAviOr again (T_T), but I hope at least he learns from Nada and July's examples. Gather yourself, find the inner bonjwa, and get the golden mouse. In the meantime, get into good shape once again. Don't worry, we can wait. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20088 Posts
I look forward to seeing his run through the MSL | ||
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SpiralArchitect
United States2116 Posts
On September 13 2008 13:18 Hot_Bid wrote: If Savior makes the MSL finals this season, I will probably have some sort of heart attack. All signs point to Ro8 at best, I could name 10 players that look better than him in the MSL right now. The big plus Savior has on them is experience though. We'll see what happens, but hoping for a finals might be a bit too optimistic. I'd be very, very happy with a semifinals finish. Heck I'd probably be happy with just a seed. Remember man alot of people said the same thing about JulyZerg in the previous OSL... I wonder how he did? :D | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On September 14 2008 14:12 Roffles wrote: Ma Jae Yoon should almost always be the favorite in every match he plays. Fan favorite that is. lol unless he's playing boxer  still, I hope savior makes a good run | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36387 Posts
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
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qkdrkqkdrk
Korea (South)22 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7201/aade1.jpg) I love Savior | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On September 17 2008 14:30 Hot_Bid wrote: In an effort to generate some good karma for the Nada vs. Savior game in a few days, I've decided to re-watch the Shinhan3 Finals between Savior and Nada that took place back in February 2007. I'll be watching games 1, 3 and 4 at 17:00 KST / TLTime (roughly 90 minutes before the MSL starts) and chatting it up on IRC. If you want to watch with me, we can sync our VODs together. Hopefully if enough of us do this we can somehow will Savior to play better. Who knows! See you then. We can wear our shirts together. I also bought myself a CJ brand rice bowl that I plan on consuming right before the games. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17731 Posts
On September 17 2008 15:58 qkdrkqkdrk wrote: I love Savior hehe bisu looks so cute and savior looks so awesome | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7465 Posts
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