Bot on ladder - Page 29

On October 01 2026 18:37 Slayer91 wrote:


This is a fair point, I don't think artosis studied deeply or practiced the build, he just copied it blind and not having the right spot for following up with turrets for example, it's not a definitive game for sure

That said, Range/stim/medicless marines vs a pro muta micro seems dismal, it feels like it should be easily countered. Even if he gets turrets up can't you just add in a round of speedlings?

I did lose to this, but just about everything went wrong - I greeded drones, put spire in the wall expecting vulture runby builds and lost it, got supply blocked stupidly not preparing for wraith, floated infinite resources, threw units away, didn't block reinforcements, overall played really bad and the game was somewhat close
https://cwal.gg/viewer?match=MM-FE32D210-BB79-11F1-A71E-FA167AEAB62F

At one point his marines are dead and I just need to kill his scvs rather than try to worry about the tanks and 1 marine bunker, and the game is over, also I should have had supply to build 5 more mutas before losing the spire.

I mean this style of getting bunkers and turrets with marine/tank contain used to be the meta in D rank PGTour back in the day, against 3 hatch muta, and you could counter it would good muta micro, I just fail to see it being good with human micro

I can't find the video now but there was one of Pluto_Z vs Pluto T with Pluto Z beating the 1/1/1 build by saccing the natural and defending on highground with sunks and just killing SCVs in main with muta, and that Pluto Z has late muta timing



I've noticed the general consensus is zergs are cancelling a 99% 3rd hatch to have more minerals to put on sunkens, while focusing on taking damage to snipe tanks... also they are still mineral starved
Would it be an option to instead take drones off second gas, build one forward sunken to guard the original, one in the mineral line later on, and flood speedlings after initial 5-6 mutas + 1 scourge while using those to kill off as many rines as possible and the first wraith while turrets are not finished?

The speedlings are then used to cleanup the rest of the marines and turrets and he has no anti air,
The idea is normally you are playing vs 2 rax marine/medic + 1 fact tank which you can never fight head on so you need sunkens to delay hence sniping the tank is the priority.. here he has a fast fact and therefore lots of tanks but little anti air, so shift focus from defending the tanks to just eliminating the anti air and not waste too many minerals on sunks which are dying almost for free once he has 2 tanks.

Sending the drones from natural back to main if you need to buy time for speedlings
If you start speed soon after you scout the move out it will finish around 5:45-6:00ish and and you just need to stall for about 6 larva from 3 hatcheries (~30 seconds) to have some kind of decent muta ling force of ~6 muta and 12 lings to thin out the marines and turret count. If you have 6 muta 12 ling before 6:30 he won't even have turrets up.

A human can't target down the lings as easily so with the mutas taking shots they should do well, would be interesting to try.
Maybe can even stall for 18 lings, just 2 turrets won't do much to mutas with lings support

I also noticed Pluto is sniping eggs on second hatchery effectively reducing you down to 1 hatch larva, that's one of the secrets probably, keeping the third hatchery up and producing faster to hatch lings from second hatch might allow you to at least get 6 lings from the natural before he can reliably kill the eggs and you have 2 more hatcheries producing mutalisks and lings

In your 'featured' video, you cancelled hatch to be able to buy more mutas but they died in the eggs so it didn't end up helping much, that was partially due to the supply block caused by the wraith, I was thinking also you need to build 3 overlords instead of 2 at 400 spire HP if you suspect fast wraith, then you can get your 5 mutas out, 1 scourge (since you lost 100 minerals from the overlord, you can save 75 by using 2 scourge to pick off a wraith or severly hurt 2 wraiths)

Your muta flock might be delayed by 1 larva max if you build an extra overlord but you won't have the accumulation of larva at the nat getting picked off.

I tested in single player, it's extremely tight on minerals, to get a 3rd overlord (presume losing 1 to wraith), ling speed, forward sunken (2nd one, assume 3:30 sunken as anti vulture standard timing) , and still produce mutas maybe just 2 on 2nd gas is smarter, and pulling off later as needed, might be an idea to try.
However, in that test you can get 8-12 speedlings before his turrets would have even started, and I believe it might even be better to let the turrets finish to get even more lings, behind the 4th overlord (starting 3 before spire finishes, 1 more after mutas are queued)

I'm not expecting that it would work vs pluto because you simply can't pick off the marines and wraith vs perfect micro
Other option is to play like Pluto Z and just run straight into his main base before turrets and try to kill scvs while defending highground with sunks