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On September 26 2026 21:43 Scarlett` wrote:
the pvz experience
For those not watching: Snow just lost a Starship Troopers-esque game
PvZ: Snow played a macro game and got a ton of free overlord and scourge kills by outmicroing the scourge, but by the time he broke out of the lurker contain (throwing away his 5 corsairs by that point) Pluto has like the whole map (6 bases?) and about 40 mutas to run into his base LOL
defended those and Pluto just got bigger
Stormed a ton of lurkers, Broke the natural and main base partially and like 10 more lurkers and 30 mutas to snipe obs come and defend
Snow is trying to exterminate bases one by one now but he's almost mined out with just the mineral only mining as his 3rd.
Lol he lost in a base trade that actually looked kind of close but Pluto could have just killed his army I think
Like Snow had to take out:
6 o clock
Bottom left Natural/main base partially busted (he busted the natural sunks and base but never finished the main with the first push)
12 o clock
9 o clock
Top left main base
and meanwhile he's just on 3 bases and losing every building lmao
It's a very "Zergy zerg", where it's just growing constantly and losing fights and not caring about it because it has more money and bases
The difference to the fabled "Sauron Zerg" (which was mostly hydra ling) is Pluto uses the gas units a lot more and it kinda makes sense as it can dodge storm very easily with mutas and he has infinite bases to mine gas
Snow's mechanics were hampered doing all the corsair micro while struggling to macro and break the lurker contain
I would have tilt quit the game as Z just from the corsair harass
Also pluto has no problem playing a mid game comp of
Muta/ling/scourge/lurker/hydra into mass lurker muta and adding in random guardians later on
I guess you need a dark archon against it as in theory goon/templar can otherwise deal with eveything reasonably efficiently
You also need good enough mechanics to break out before it takes the whole map
Watching the game as P perspective is scary because it seems impossible to take a 4th base as the zerg is everywhere both expansions and units so it forces you to push into his bases and you feel completely all-in
If it knew how to dive to snipe templars and spread lurkers seems unwinnable without maelstrom
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On September 26 2026 21:51 Slayer91 wrote:
Watching the game as P perspective is scary because it seems impossible to take a 4th base as the zerg is everywhere both expansions and units so it forces you to push into his bases and you feel completely all-in
If it knew how to dive to snipe templars and spread lurkers seems unwinnable without maelstrom
If the AI knows how to use proper Zerg units and strategies, its Zerg will become unplayable. And PvZ for the humans will become a 0-100 sport. With that kind of unit control, storms become practically useless.
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One thing though: now with all those showmatches and videos about this AI, money are being made for the people using it. But shame as the author of the AI doesn't get a dime?
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On September 26 2026 21:51 quaristice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2026 21:21 Jealous wrote:
Also, to say that it "doesn't remember units that leave its vision for like 4 seconds" doesn't seem accurate otherwise it would be constantly suiciding into sieged tanks which outrange its armies and shoot from beyond most units' vision. Even some AI much weaker than Pluto don't do that. There is probably some other explanation for the behavior, perhaps indeed connected to ledges or whatnot, I can't say for sure and I doubt any of us non-AI authors can speak authoritatively on it. i said usually, it like sort of remembers in some extreme matchup defining cases, basically its "long term" memory is a lot more limited than a human
i think this is part of why it builds so many air units btw it relies on them for vision a lot
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It always feels like the AI produces way more units than it should be able to. Like if we don't know we may assume this is a guy with money hack.
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On September 26 2026 22:58 quaristice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2026 21:51 quaristice wrote:On September 26 2026 21:21 Jealous wrote:
Also, to say that it "doesn't remember units that leave its vision for like 4 seconds" doesn't seem accurate otherwise it would be constantly suiciding into sieged tanks which outrange its armies and shoot from beyond most units' vision. Even some AI much weaker than Pluto don't do that. There is probably some other explanation for the behavior, perhaps indeed connected to ledges or whatnot, I can't say for sure and I doubt any of us non-AI authors can speak authoritatively on it. i said usually, it like sort of remembers in some extreme matchup defining cases, basically its "long term" memory is a lot more limited than a human i think this is part of why it builds so many air units btw it relies on them for vision a lot
the other thing about this is that some amount of its apparent "memory" of where units are is more extrapolation of what it knows about how many units the enemy has made/lost and where those units could be based on where it currently has vision and what units it doesnt see
this is prob part of why burrow messes with it so much if burrow was discovered late in its training
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Bonker game vs Soma. Pluto was on like two and a half bases in a 30 min game vs 6 base Soma and it almost won (it would if it knew what a 3rd base is). The AI multitasking allows it to fight incredibly well and take insanely favorable trades. It knows when to back off and what to back off. One moment I saw 1 goon and 2 zealots killing a lurker and the 2 zealots just leave before the last hits, allowing the goon to finish the job. It's small stuff like that that takes place all over the map that makes economy less of a big deal/
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Hehe. I was expecting Soma to demolish Pluto. Not the case at all.
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its gambling so hard in pvz
this season asl type play 
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On September 26 2026 23:05 TMNT wrote:
It always feels like the AI produces way more units than it should be able to. Like if we don't know we may assume this is a guy with money hack.
Yes, but then objectively it doesn't get an obvious lead in workers/bases, I think the godlike mechanics means it loses very few units and produces more while saving on production facilities since it never gets supply blocked or misses a cycle, it can simply produce more units from less everything
It you watched Snows game he had like 2k minerals banked quite early while harassing with corsairs, if you add 20 zealots instead of what he did (adding 4 gateways and continuing to float) just from better mechanics the army he would have had would be giant
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On September 26 2026 22:54 TMNT wrote:
One thing though: now with all those showmatches and videos about this AI, money are being made for the people using it. But shame as the author of the AI doesn't get a dime?
That's the unfortunate reality - monetization comes from followers/advertising so anyone 'farming' content makes money while the producer of the product doesn't, can be any product
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Bro this remind me when i used to be super low skill and the meta was ultralisk late game. My opponents will always make Sair DT and kill me xD.
Also funny enough if Pluto was the zerg player im pretty sure he would have made some Devours.
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On September 25 2026 20:43 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2026 20:15 Scarlett` wrote:On September 25 2026 19:47 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:On September 25 2026 19:30 Scarlett` wrote:On September 25 2026 19:29 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:On September 25 2026 19:28 Scarlett` wrote:On September 25 2026 19:25 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:On September 25 2026 19:01 Scarlett` wrote:bm bot floating away are you having issues with mouse-drag locking keyboard inputs on 1.16.1? are you using a plugin to fix or just pressing more accurately? i've been playing on 1.16.1 and the mouse-drag locking keyboard inputs nerfs me so much, crazy because i never used to feel it 10 years ago pre-remaster https://github.com/NiteKat/bw116inputfix/releasesput this in chaoslauncher OMG, THANK YOU SO MUCH its not perfect but its better; sometimes i feel like i cant click instantly after pressing a hotkey (maybe on the minimap specifically?) testing it right now, i don't seem to be having issues... do you know what actions exactly causes the dropped inputs for you? like clicking r then click on minimap for rally yeah i just tested, if you R-click the minimap almost at the same time, the action doesn't go through, whereas if you do the same thing on remastered it goes through
Hello, I'm the dev on the input fix! I just tested and you can do this in Remastered too! I think the timing window on Remaster to have this happen is tighter than the 1.16.1 client, I suspect it's tied to frame rate. While the game ticks turns at the same fps between both versions, remastered is running at a higher frame rate than 1.16.1. I think the left click (or right click) is being processed on the minimap before the cursor becomes the "set target" cursor for things like Set Rally, Attack, etc, causing it to move the screen (or do nothing for right click, etc.) instead of doing the action that then queues up on the mouse cursor.
Edit: Actually, I think this is something else. When you press a key for a command (like attack or set rally), there is a frame or two where the icon in the command card becomes white but the mouse doesn't react until the command card clears out and you just have cancel. If you click the minimap during that frame, before the command card clears, it is interpreted as a normal click because the action you pressed the keyboard for hasn't taken over the mouse yet.
It does feel like the window to do this on Remaster was still a little tighter, so maybe FPS still plays a thing if the Remastered UI's updates are not tied to the game's turn updates, which wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.
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Lol viewers asking to have Pluto in proleague :D :D :D :D
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it just mineral walked without vision
edit: apparently corsair saw gas briefly and it used that
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this pluto maphack ? how he is worker drilling like that without vision on minerals.
So in some of the early games going 2 SG could be the product of mh.
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Yo btw what is this eclipse version ? i dont think i have seen this before.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/btVP249.png)
