I'm making this thread a little early because the Wildcard for Flash's spot is coming up on July 11th, feel free to use this thread as the semi LR as well as for the upcoming Qualifiers and Ro16 Group Selection.
As usual spoilers are ok in this thread and LR threads, but only in these places.
Here are the other posters from the Open qualifiers annoucement:
So the 4 new maps will be implemented right away, wow! Glad to see the progamers practicing on them with Proleagues.
Will be interesting to see how the many of the big name players compete, as opposed to waiting for the full qualifers. I don't recall Flash or Bisu appearing in these Open events last season -- ASL/21/Qualifier/OPEN/1
Taking a glance at the Korean boards and saw several "trending" posts involving Bisu complaining about the new maps.
He called 910 while live streaming and said they're all Terran favored Kept whining and 910 laughed it off, saying tomorrow's the deadline for map feedback, which incensed Bisu even more...
I checked out Bisu's stream and noticed he registered for the Open day 1:
On July 12 2026 17:35 hda wrote: Taking a glance at the Korean boards and saw several "trending" posts involving Bisu complaining about the new maps.
He called 910 while live streaming and said they're all Terran favored Kept whining and 910 laughed it off, saying tomorrow's the deadline for map feedback, which incensed Bisu even more...
I checked out Bisu's stream and noticed he registered for the Open day 1:
Funny as Zerg and Terran players are also whining about the maps too.
You're right, we don't... I just wanted to give people the chance to watch the VOD without knowing anything. At hindsight I should have added this to the calendar, but I wasn't really aware.
This image that they showed during Day 1 open means the online qualifiers are August 1st and 2nd? And sign-ups close July 29th? If so hopefully someone's badgering effort
Are Open Day 2 participants list leaked anywhere? I am interested to see who Dewalt will face to compete for the ASL22 spot. He is playing incredibly strong, just won against Sharp 2-1 on stream.
On July 20 2026 00:16 c3rberUs wrote: On the Day 1 Final + Show Spoiler +
I don't get why EffOrt decided to do two all-ins on Bisu instead of playing straight up.
The way i understand it, cheeses are like bluffs in poker. In itself they are not particularly great strategies, but it’s an investment to keep your opponent guessing. If you never, ever go two 9 pools in a row in a finale, you are much easier to play against.
I saw Mini make a couple of rookie mistakes a few days ago actually. If Mini is not in the zone, he seems to stop caring about details that get him ahead and are a huge contributor to making his filthy strategies work.
SpeedTube (doesn't care but raw skill a lot) RoyaL1123 (best player in all of games... very skill) HERO (name huge now) jd2321232123 (angery, angry keyboard/mouse) soma (maybe?) Bisu (has nothin else to do...) SnOw (no practices but plays good for no reason) Mini (sucks but maybe get lucky build)
Honorable say:
Rush (good) Queen (no practice...) Best (no practice and is bad...) Shine (good but where he is?) Soulkey (he better getting again, maybe go win 1 this time) Ample (depend)
Good last but bad now:
Leta (not good) Tulbo (Very bad)
Never good, still never good:
Stork (just go away....) BarraCK (overrate..not do well. He call Flash and Flash not answer, so bad) KiLLer (I dont know who is this?) effORT (never does anything...just lose..) EyeWater_Jum (what the hell man.. IDK if even rank B/C/D) Mong (always lose and not fun) Sharp (can't do vers zergs ever) FlaSH (just throw game) Rain (only lose, weak play) Light (play so predict)
No info:
Scan (friendly face never seen game) Mind (don't know him) sSak (confusing) Larva (rude to Chinese) Calm (girl streamer I stopwatch)
On August 01 2026 19:14 c3rberUs wrote: Players who qualified during the 8/1 Qualifiers Sharp ggaemo Calm Hero JyJ Soulkey Action Shinee Rush ZerO Larva BeSt
Thanks c3rberus!
Glad to see progamers filling these slots. Bo1's are so unpredictable, so I appreciate the organizers going with a Bo3 in the final
Hoping a few more Protoss make it tomorrow, as well as Jaedong and Effort
let's see if shinee actually turns up for his group this time
On August 01 2026 19:21 Peeano wrote: Damn, Calm made it through. Was his bracket easy or did he actually beat someone with a name? I can't watch the VOD for some reason :/
beat shuttle 2-1 in the finals, 2-1 sacsri in the semi-finals so definitely not a walk through
On August 01 2026 19:21 Peeano wrote: Damn, Calm made it through. Was his bracket easy or did he actually beat someone with a name? I can't watch the VOD for some reason :/
i get that bisu, mini and snow are already in, but the protoss lineup looks grim especially this season. even though it's basically been like that for a few years now.
who are we looking for on day2? T: Speed, Barracks, Royal, Ssak. maybe Mind. Z: Jaedong, Effort, Shine, maybe BTS P: Shuttle and then I don't know. Teolbo and Stork, i guess.
On August 01 2026 19:57 angryground wrote: i get that bisu, mini and snow are already in, but the protoss lineup looks grim especially this season. even though it's basically been like that for a few years now.
Did Rain skip this ASL? I think he is the last reliable protoss player that hasn't passed yet.
On August 01 2026 16:01 c3rberUs wrote: zero infests CC
That was the most 1-sided series of StarCraft I've ever seen holy shit . Queen danced on sSak's body in heels and then ate his fucking soul lmfao. sSak's cool but dude got absolutely deleted.
On August 01 2026 20:03 angryground wrote: who are we looking for on day2? T: Speed, Barracks, Royal, Ssak. maybe Mind. Z: Jaedong, Effort, Shine, maybe BTS P: Shuttle and then I don't know. Teolbo and Stork, i guess.
The drop off after Best, Snow, Mini and Bisu is pretty stark. None of the remaining Protoss players are really ASL quality. YSC and Shuttle are memes, guys like free and stork are past it and Rain is good but very unserious about BW. I doubt we’ll see any other protosses qualify unless they get a friendly bracket tomorrow.
Tbf, ggaemo, Hero(unlike last season), Shinee, Rush, Larva, BeSt and ZerO half of the time are in good shape and deserve to be there.
I like Calm, because he is good for the game, has a big fanbase and i enjoy his funky prepared build order. I prefer him as, lets say, someone like Sacsri.
Fuck Sharp, JyJ, Soulkey (unfortunately) and Action (unfortunately also) because they arent playing super good and i dont see any of them reaching RO16 except SK if he puts some effort.
On August 01 2026 19:57 angryground wrote: i get that bisu, mini and snow are already in, but the protoss lineup looks grim especially this season. even though it's basically been like that for a few years now.
Did Rain skip this ASL? I think he is the last reliable protoss player that hasn't passed yet.
I checked his SOOP recently and none of his streams have BW content
Crazy how Horang2 seems to get into a qualifier final almost every season. I swear the only times I've seen him playing BW are during qualifiers. Meanwhile amateurs and semipros who grind games... The base skills he got during Kespa and the early ASL era are enough to take him that far, imagine if he were actually active.
On August 02 2026 14:20 TMNT wrote: Crazy how Horang2 seems to get into a qualifier final almost every season. I swear the only times I've seen him playing BW are during qualifiers. Meanwhile amateurs and semipros who grind games... The base skills he got during Kespa and the early ASL era are enough to take him that far, imagine if he were actually active.
Beautiful base layout to make his opponents pause in awe
Tulgod is down. So much for hyping him up last season. "Up and coming" Protoss, who is as young as Snow. Just like Barracks, the "up and coming" Terran who is older than Flash, who also did not qualify this season.
Nobody's actually breaking into that elite circle of 10-12 Major Proleague players. All the hype every season from the likes of Tastosis is just to generate a kind of pseudo excitement.
On August 02 2026 15:29 TMNT wrote: Tulgod is down. So much for hyping him up last season. "Up and coming" Protoss, who is as young as Snow. Just like Barracks, the "up and coming" Terran who is older than Flash, who also did not qualify this season.
Nobody's actually breaking into that elite circle of 10-12 Major Proleague players. All the hype every season from the likes of Tastosis is just to generate a kind of pseudo excitement.
Quite a few new faces in the groups finals compared to previous qualifiers as far as I can remember, but yeh nobody really breaking through.
On August 02 2026 16:38 c3rberUs wrote: Bisu going so wild in his stream, his feed died LMAO
I love PvPs
I love PvP but that was a heart breaker. I'm imagining being Ruin and wanting to do the Karate wood block chop on my own fucking desk for like a full day after losing here. And after so many seasons of falling short. Just so Shuttle could lose in the ro24 LMAO Edit: legit no meanness intended towards Shuttle, he's fine, but woulda been way cooler to see Ruin get a bit of momentum. We see enough of Shuttle
no that's the entire player list - protoss players are just lacking in quality and depth these days. so much for having a protoss favoured map pool lmao
On August 02 2026 17:08 GTR wrote: no that's the entire player list - protoss players are just lacking in quality and depth these days. so much for having a protoss favoured map pool lmao
I mean I guess Shuttle just knocked out a possible player in a PvP which doesn't help.
Still, the Protoss' that are in seem to be pretty good so they might go deep if they can get past all the PvZ they're likely all going to get stuck with.
On August 02 2026 16:38 c3rberUs wrote: Bisu going so wild in his stream, his feed died LMAO
I love PvPs
I love PvP but that was a heart breaker. I'm imagining being Ruin and wanting to do the Karate wood block chop on my own fucking desk for like a full day after losing here. And after so many seasons of falling short. Just so Shuttle could lose in the ro24 LMAO Edit: legit no meanness intended towards Shuttle, he's fine, but woulda been way cooler to see Ruin get a bit of momentum. We see enough of Shuttle
i was watching Bisu stream so i couldnt understand the last game: shuttle lost starting probe then first obs. looks like he was gonna die when his nat had a handful of goons killing probes then Ruin backs off and Shuttle just moves out and wins. looks like a difference in skill into mid-late game.
On August 02 2026 16:38 c3rberUs wrote: Bisu going so wild in his stream, his feed died LMAO
I love PvPs
I love PvP but that was a heart breaker. I'm imagining being Ruin and wanting to do the Karate wood block chop on my own fucking desk for like a full day after losing here. And after so many seasons of falling short. Just so Shuttle could lose in the ro24 LMAO Edit: legit no meanness intended towards Shuttle, he's fine, but woulda been way cooler to see Ruin get a bit of momentum. We see enough of Shuttle
i was watching Bisu stream so i couldnt understand the last game: shuttle lost starting probe then first obs. looks like he was gonna die when his nat had a handful of goons killing probes then Ruin backs off and Shuttle just moves out and wins. looks like a difference in skill into mid-late game.
The reason is he wasn't . Shuttle has better macro the whole game. It's 6 Gates vs 4 Gates for a long time, and I think he probably has more probes too. Ruin wins that fight but just barely. One of the indicators that Shuttle wasn't losing is that he's still up in supply during that entire sequence. His reinforcements are just about on time so that the most actual damage Ruin can deal to him is just a few probes. That said Ruin is definitely ahead though but he doesn't steadily capitalise on that. Instead he probably thought that he had the game in the bag already and made a couple of wasteful attacks after. The game is about 50/50 before the Shuttle's decisive push, in which Ruins shoots himself in the foot by splitting his army in two parts, neither of which being able to accomplish anything.
wtf? day 2 group 6 says soO was playing protoss for day 2 quals... is this a mistake or is he pulling out the sc2 race switch strats? ASL/22/Qualifier/Day 2
On August 03 2026 06:57 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: wtf? day 2 group 6 says soO was playing protoss for day 2 quals... is this a mistake or is he pulling out the sc2 race switch strats? https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/ASL/22/Qualifier/Day_2
On August 03 2026 08:54 Sabu113 wrote: Surprised we didn't see a run from Rain in this season given the map pool.
Maps aren't good for Protoss if that's what you mean. Don't believe the propaganda. The guy who chose those maps for ASL said they are trying to help Protoss but they aren't (or at least it hasn't worked the way they intended)
As of now, out of 14 matchups there is only 1 good for Protoss, 4 neutral, 3 bad and 6 very bad. Larger sample sizes are needed for the new 4 maps and slight upticks can develop, but don't expect them to totally flip the other way.
Yeah I could be just regurgitating artosis propaganda. He has 2-3 comments about the legend of the fall being fake and the maps being good for toss every big video.
Surprised PvT has been that dramatic. My priors are that PvZ has some huge design flaws that are just apparent at this point after years of play.
I think it's better to put large images in spoiler tag. Otherwise it's difficult to load for shitty internet/phone and breaks the flow of the conversation. I only say it because I see you posting huge images from SOOP a lot. No necessary. Just link good. TY.
also idk if it's you or someone else but people keep posting full korean graphics/brackets as if more than 1% of people here can read that lol. We have liquipedia for that, don't need all this other stuff but w/e just my opinion
On August 03 2026 15:27 Sabu113 wrote: Yeah I could be just regurgitating artosis propaganda. He has 2-3 comments about the legend of the fall being fake and the maps being good for toss every big video.
Surprised PvT has been that dramatic. My priors are that PvZ has some huge design flaws that are just apparent at this point after years of play.
PvT design flaws are that Protoss doesn't have good ways to reliably bust Terran these days especially on the current map pool. Shittude and Shitgon especially made it far too easy for Terrans to reliably get set in a 4 base setup and high level TvP is still a nightmare for Protoss players trying to take reliable fights against rock solid builds from Terran.
Interesting that we're moving to loser pick in the bracket stage. And Ro24 will certainly be almost guaranteed have Attitude as the 2nd map given the other 2p maps are in the same map pool.
On August 03 2026 08:54 Sabu113 wrote: Surprised we didn't see a run from Rain in this season given the map pool.
Maps aren't good for Protoss if that's what you mean. Don't believe the propaganda. The guy who chose those maps for ASL said they are trying to help Protoss but they aren't (or at least it hasn't worked the way they intended)
As of now, out of 14 matchups there is only 1 good for Protoss, 4 neutral, 3 bad and 6 very bad. Larger sample sizes are needed for the new 4 maps and slight upticks can develop, but don't expect them to totally flip the other way.
On August 04 2026 02:13 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: whats the current data on these maps for ZvX?
Update with new color scale for all 6 matchups
(note that for some reason the people at eloboard decided to group the old Odyssey and Odyssey RE as one map, so to extract the win rates on Odyssey RE you have to do some queries)
Said earlier after I watched a few games on Colorless and looks like it's spot on now: this map heavily favors Zerg. Zerg has essentially only one choke to defend to secure all 4 gases. That's all they need.
I expect the win rates on Backrooms will look less absurd with more games. But I haven't really grasped why this map seems to be heaven for Terran. Maybe those ramps have a bigger impact than I thought.
Odyssey RE turns out to be not that good for Protoss (even Snow thought it was too good initially). The fastest mineral seems to do fuck all for them.
On August 04 2026 02:13 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: whats the current data on these maps for ZvX?
Update with new color scale for all 6 matchups
(note that for some reason the people at eloboard decided to group the old Odyssey and Odyssey RE as one map, so to extract the win rates on Odyssey RE you have to do some queries)
Said earlier after I watched a few games on Colorless and looks like it's spot on now: this map heavily favors Zerg. Zerg has essentially only one choke to defend to secure all 4 gases. That's all they need.
I expect the win rates on Backrooms will look less absurd with more games. But I haven't really grasped why this map seems to be heaven for Terran. Maybe those ramps have a bigger impact than I thought.
Odyssey RE turns out to be not that good for Protoss (even Snow thought it was too good initially). The fastest mineral seems to do fuck all for them.
from my perspective, the reason why backrooms is terrible ZvT is because terran gets a ling-tight wall in every spawn location, with only 11:00 having marines pop on the outside. it isn't as bad as polypoid 5:00, because at least on backrooms you have an egg to glide through so you don't auto-lose a drone when you scout terran and they complete the wall with their second depot to lock in your drone.
also: the natural gas is inwards instead of outwards, so you can't muta harass terran's 2nd gas to weaken their gas bank for vessals/tanks in more traditional maps like polypoid. not to mention the area beside your natural minerals gives terran room for literally 3 layers of turrets (compare that to polypoid/vermeer/fighting spirit)
the round-about thirds are quite bad if you are fighting mech or tech, since speedvults can easily run through and raid from the backdoor, with a very big ramp that you can't block... in fighting spirit/attitude style third-gas bases, at least you can block vulture raids with 1 hydra on each ramp
and thats with the current version, the first version of backrooms was about twice as worse for zerg, but i won't get into that since it's a lot better now
I think it's better to put large images in spoiler tag. Otherwise it's difficult to load for shitty internet/phone and breaks the flow of the conversation. I only say it because I see you posting huge images from SOOP a lot. No necessary. Just link good. TY.
I hear you, comrade.
I've been very selective about which graphics/posters to share, and will continue to be.
This poster presents finer details like the map pool voting/ban process, so I thought it'd be interesting for folks. Fun details that are not documented on LP.
On August 04 2026 07:38 TMNT wrote: Update with new color scale for all 6 matchups
Thanks for sharing -- will be interesting to see how these change with a larger sample size. Looking at the Eloboard splits for these maps, those involving Protoss often have a much smaller data set.
On Backrooms, for example, PvZ only has ~50 games logged, compared to ~110 games for TvZ.
With so few Protoss progamers, I wonder if we're seeing skewed data...
For example, Bisu took all of June and ~half of July off, only recently re-entering the fray. Will be interesting to see how he drives the PvZ numbers, and perhaps the tactics, on these maps in the next few months
Similarly, weaker players like Shuttle have been very active in Proleagues, so I'm guessing he's single-handedly driving down some of the Protoss numbers, inadvertently...
I can’t really see any terran that i would be confident could challenge the likes of Soma and Snow. Maybe Light, but I wouldn’t bet on it. I predict a PvZ or ZvZ finale.
On August 09 2026 04:07 Biff The Understudy wrote: Oh man i am so sad Royal didn’t make it in.
I can’t really see any terran that i would be confident could challenge the likes of Soma and Snow. Maybe Light, but I wouldn’t bet on it. I predict a PvZ or ZvZ finale.
Light, Speed, or Rush, are the three terrans who will have to step up and bring it home. I dont see the otherw having a shot.
On August 06 2026 06:20 zelevin wrote: S: Soma, Snow, Mini, Light A: Jaedong, EffOrt, hero, Soulkey, Rush, Bisu B: Action, Queen, Larva, Sharp, Best C: Shine, sSak, Speed, Shinee, jyj, leta, Paralyze D: Calm, ggaemo, Mong, Shuttle F: Hm, Piano
I feel like this season's map pool gives a particular buff to Mini. I'm picking Mini to be the champ. We'll see.
S: SoMa, Light A: SnOw, EffOrt, Jaedong, Best, Rush, Mini
Rest is irrelevant to my eye. I am bothered with SK, he is not showing his true skill at the moment. I see many of you put Speed so high, but I believe once S class players rise their skill to tv match level, he can't keep up. Bisu choking as usual. Queen no comment.
In the end I don't see any T or P killing SoMa, so if he has to be eliminated, it will probably be against so zerg like EffOrt or JD.
On August 10 2026 23:13 iFU.pauline wrote: S: SoMa, Light A: SnOw, EffOrt, Jaedong, Best, Rush, Mini
Rest is irrelevant to my eye. I am bothered with SK, he is not showing his true skill at the moment. I see many of you put Speed so high, but I believe once S class players rise their skill to tv match level, he can't keep up. Bisu choking as usual. Queen no comment.
In the end I don't see any T or P killing SoMa, so if he has to be eliminated, it will probably be against so zerg like EffOrt or JD.
Speed is more or less the only Terran currently spearheading terran. Even ahead of light and rush. he, at least online, seems to be the terran to fear and respect.
On August 04 2026 19:33 M3t4PhYzX wrote: 6 out of 8 playoff spots will go to Protoss players, mark my words! The map pool is insanely protoss favoured this year. Yeeehaw!
If there's anything roaring currents taught us, it's that broodwar players dont know anything about map theory.
to be fair to soulkey and jaedong though, they were complaining about the earlier versions of the maps... back when odyssey had 10 minerals in the stack, no hallucinated minerals to block proxies in the middle or even gas-steals, and lots of buildable terrain in the middle suitable for fastest map style proxy 3-gate
first iteration of backrooms was absolute dogshit for zergs in ZvT also... it still is but first version was way worse
On August 12 2026 01:21 TMNT wrote: Hasnt changed much since last week it seems
The video in which JD and SK whined about Protoss-favored map pool has aged like milk.
My prediction was correct. Terrible pool for protoss. Seen some PvT's and it just looked so inefficient to trade or engage anywhere for protoss on most of the maps.
Bring back Apocalypse, Neo Dark origin, and Dominator!
I haven't seen the numbers but surely there is an outlier or two dragging the percentages up (Soma, Soulkey) and/or down (protoss seem to be dogwater regardless of the map pool).
On August 13 2026 02:15 c3rberUs wrote: I haven't seen the numbers but surely there is an outlier or two dragging the percentages up (Soma, Soulkey) and/or down (protoss seem to be dogwater regardless of the map pool).
A good player obviously improves his race's win rates, and vice versa. But I think the so-called outliers usually don't change those numbers significantly - certainly not as much as people think.
Some examples on Attitude (the best map for Zerg and worst for Protoss, among the 3 old maps which have large number of games):
- Shuttle is probably accused of dampering his race's win rates the most, and his win rates usually look abysmal because the guy, despite not on major proleague level, plays there a lot more than he should. But he's only "able to" decrease the Protoss win rate on both matchups by less than 1% - because of his low volume of games.
- Soulkey is another low activity player, hence despite him having a ZvT win rate ~10% higher than the average of his race, is only able to raise the overall ZvT win rate by 0.7%. Also his ZvP win rate on Attitude apparently is not better than the average of Zerg.
- The only time a player raises his race's win rate by more than 1% in these examples is Soma in ZvT, but even so I wouldn't say going from 47.9 to 50.1% is that significant. This is because he has an absurd amount of ZvT games on this map (93) - which seems to be the result of some grudge matches or something with Rush (they played 43 games with each other, of which Soma won 67%). On the other hand, it's surprising that Soma actually drags the ZvP win rate down by 0.7%.
On August 13 2026 02:15 c3rberUs wrote: I haven't seen the numbers but surely there is an outlier or two dragging the percentages up (Soma, Soulkey) and/or down (protoss seem to be dogwater regardless of the map pool).
A good player obviously improves his race's win rates, and vice versa. But I think the so-called outliers usually don't change those numbers significantly - certainly not as much as people think.
Some examples on Attitude (the best map for Zerg and worst for Protoss, among the 3 old maps which have large number of games):
- Shuttle is probably accused of dampering his race's win rates the most, and his win rates usually look abysmal because the guy, despite not on major proleague level, plays there a lot more than he should. But he's only "able to" decrease the Protoss win rate on both matchups by less than 1% - because of his low volume of games.
- Soulkey is another low activity player, hence despite him having a ZvT win rate ~10% higher than the average of his race, is only able to raise the overall ZvT win rate by 0.7%. Also his ZvP win rate on Attitude apparently is not better than the average of Zerg.
- The only time a player raises his race's win rate by more than 1% in these examples is Soma in ZvT, but even so I wouldn't say going from 47.9 to 50.1% is that significant. This is because he has an absurd amount of ZvT games on this map (93) - which seems to be the result of some grudge matches or something with Rush (they played 43 games with each other, of which Soma won 67%). On the other hand, it's surprising that Soma actually drags the ZvP win rate down by 0.7%.
I shot my shot even though I know an outlier needs to have impossible winrates to really make a dent.
What are people’s senses of how long it takes for players to fully suss out a new map? We’re still discovering the Meta?
Secondarily, why was there so much hype about the map pool being Protoss favored before by both pros, artosis and seemingly consensus here but now the raw numbers are a little wild. Shuttle seems vindicated.
On August 14 2026 01:39 Sabu113 wrote: What are people’s senses of how long it takes for players to fully suss out a new map? We’re still discovering the Meta?
Secondarily, why was there so much hype about the map pool being Protoss favored before by both pros, artosis and seemingly consensus here but now the raw numbers are a little wild. Shuttle seems vindicated.
It's not like that in the Korean scene.
The hype about a Protoss map pool in the foreign community, if there was ever any, was largely influenced by the two jinjin videos, one of which Snow admitted Odyssey is a good P map, the other having JD and SK complaining about Jane Doe, Match Point and Odyssey.
First I feel like there's a lack of critical and comprehensive thinking from both the players in the videos and the viewers. Even if Odyssey were indeed heavily Protoss favored, so that's like 1 out of 7, not the majority of the pool. There are also several wrong things in that second video as well, which I will point out later.
Second, those opnions were formed when the first version of the map came out. Since then it's been nerfed as the Zergs wished, to the point now that it's become slightly disadvantageous to Protoss.
Third, Artosis knows fuck all about the Korean scene. He just regurgitates whatever jinjin feeds him. Dude had lived in Korea for 15 years but can't speak the language (he has to pay for translated guides). But more importantly, he has no interest in finding information directly from Korean websites and streams (hence his only source of information from KR is from jinjin). He had no idea about daily proleagues, SC universities, eloboard (or maybe he had but didn't bother to check) let alone fmkorea or ygosu. It's kind of insane how a leading figure of foreign BW community is that ignorant about Korean BW.
which seems to be the result of some grudge matches or something with Rush (they played 43 games with each other, of which Soma won 67%)
And as I said this, it's 5am now and they're playing with a score of 11-9 to Rush. These two seem to single-handedly increase significantly the sample size for ZvT
On August 14 2026 01:39 Sabu113 wrote: What are people’s senses of how long it takes for players to fully suss out a new map? We’re still discovering the Meta?
Secondarily, why was there so much hype about the map pool being Protoss favored before by both pros, artosis and seemingly consensus here but now the raw numbers are a little wild. Shuttle seems vindicated.
It's not like that in the Korean scene.
The hype about a Protoss map pool in the foreign community, if there was ever any, was largely influenced by the two jinjin videos, one of which Snow admitted Odyssey is a good P map, the other having JD and SK complaining about Jane Doe, Match Point and Odyssey.
First I feel like there's a lack of critical and comprehensive thinking from both the players in the videos and the viewers. Even if Odyssey were indeed heavily Protoss favored, so that's like 1 out of 7, not the majority of the pool. There are also several wrong things in that second video as well, which I will point out later.
Second, those opnions were formed when the first version of the map came out. Since then it's been nerfed as the Zergs wished, to the point now that it's become slightly disadvantageous to Protoss.
Third, Artosis knows fuck all about the Korean scene. He just regurgitates whatever jinjin feeds him. Dude had lived in Korea for 15 years but can't speak the language (he has to pay for translated guides). But more importantly, he has no interest in finding information directly from Korean websites and streams (hence his only source of information from KR is from jinjin). He had no idea about daily proleagues, SC universities, eloboard (or maybe he had but didn't bother to check) let alone fmkorea or ygosu. It's kind of insane how a leading figure of foreign BW community is that ignorant about Korean BW.
On August 14 2026 01:39 Sabu113 wrote: What are people’s senses of how long it takes for players to fully suss out a new map? We’re still discovering the Meta?
Secondarily, why was there so much hype about the map pool being Protoss favored before by both pros, artosis and seemingly consensus here but now the raw numbers are a little wild. Shuttle seems vindicated.
It's not like that in the Korean scene.
The hype about a Protoss map pool in the foreign community, if there was ever any, was largely influenced by the two jinjin videos, one of which Snow admitted Odyssey is a good P map, the other having JD and SK complaining about Jane Doe, Match Point and Odyssey.
First I feel like there's a lack of critical and comprehensive thinking from both the players in the videos and the viewers. Even if Odyssey were indeed heavily Protoss favored, so that's like 1 out of 7, not the majority of the pool. There are also several wrong things in that second video as well, which I will point out later.
Second, those opnions were formed when the first version of the map came out. Since then it's been nerfed as the Zergs wished, to the point now that it's become slightly disadvantageous to Protoss.
Third, Artosis knows fuck all about the Korean scene. He just regurgitates whatever jinjin feeds him. Dude had lived in Korea for 15 years but can't speak the language (he has to pay for translated guides). But more importantly, he has no interest in finding information directly from Korean websites and streams (hence his only source of information from KR is from jinjin). He had no idea about daily proleagues, SC universities, eloboard (or maybe he had but didn't bother to check) let alone fmkorea or ygosu. It's kind of insane how a leading figure of foreign BW community is that ignorant about Korean BW.
On August 13 2026 02:15 c3rberUs wrote: I haven't seen the numbers but surely there is an outlier or two dragging the percentages up (Soma, Soulkey) and/or down (protoss seem to be dogwater regardless of the map pool).
A good player obviously improves his race's win rates, and vice versa. But I think the so-called outliers usually don't change those numbers significantly - certainly not as much as people think.
Some examples on Attitude (the best map for Zerg and worst for Protoss, among the 3 old maps which have large number of games):
- Shuttle is probably accused of dampering his race's win rates the most, and his win rates usually look abysmal because the guy, despite not on major proleague level, plays there a lot more than he should. But he's only "able to" decrease the Protoss win rate on both matchups by less than 1% - because of his low volume of games.
- Soulkey is another low activity player, hence despite him having a ZvT win rate ~10% higher than the average of his race, is only able to raise the overall ZvT win rate by 0.7%. Also his ZvP win rate on Attitude apparently is not better than the average of Zerg.
- The only time a player raises his race's win rate by more than 1% in these examples is Soma in ZvT, but even so I wouldn't say going from 47.9 to 50.1% is that significant. This is because he has an absurd amount of ZvT games on this map (93) - which seems to be the result of some grudge matches or something with Rush (they played 43 games with each other, of which Soma won 67%). On the other hand, it's surprising that Soma actually drags the ZvP win rate down by 0.7%.
I shot my shot even though I know an outlier needs to have impossible winrates to really make a dent.
After 20+ games with Rush yesterday, looks like Soma is doing the same with Speed today, and he's leading 9-2 at the moment. If he continues to grind games with Terrans like this, and if he smashes them with this kind of score, he can actually make a dent.
On August 31 2026 20:34 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote: revised predictions:
A: soma/Rush (if shuttle gets through i'll lmao) B: JD/Queen C: Light/SK D: Snow/Effort (though hard road for snow because lmao zergs)
Pretty much agree with this, although I would give Best the edge over Rush I think. Both of them have a good chance to make it out but imho TvP is Rush's weakest matchup. A group with Best, who I favour head-to-head, Shuttle, who can beat Rush, and Soma, imho the best Zerg right now, is a very unfavourable group for Rush.
group A - soma and rush or best(rush has the edge but i think best is not a huge underdog) group B - ggaemoda can take out someone in zvz, he beat JD in the preliminaries 2-0, beat both Larva and Queen in the Ro24, seems he is decent enough in this matchup, so i will go with JD and ggaemoda group C - light and SK, easiest to forecast imo group D - snow and effort, Shine is tricky but i believe in effort
Looking forward to see if the Zergs have figured out Leta's ways. JD and Queen should absolutely advance from that group but could honestly see any combo of 2 coming out of that one.
On August 31 2026 22:57 ShloobeR wrote: Looking forward to see if the Zergs have figured out Leta's ways. JD and Queen should absolutely advance from that group but could honestly see any combo of 2 coming out of that one.
considering Soma destroyed Leta 18-1 just this week in a large spon set, I fear Leta will get smashed because the others will copy Soma.
On September 01 2026 03:05 TT1 wrote: group b = meme group
LETA GOING TO THE FINALS, leta vs shuttle finals lets go baby
Cannot wait!!! Hopefully shuttle can put up a better performance in the grand finals than tulbo did in the Ro8 last year but I fear Leta is too powerful at this point
On August 31 2026 22:57 ShloobeR wrote: Looking forward to see if the Zergs have figured out Leta's ways. JD and Queen should absolutely advance from that group but could honestly see any combo of 2 coming out of that one.
considering Soma destroyed Leta 18-1 just this week in a large spon set, I fear Leta will get smashed because the others will copy Soma.
Yes, I'm sure copying Soma is almost as easy as copying Flash.
Group A is hard to predict. Soma should make it, but 2nd spot is open for bets. Shuttle can absolutely win BeSt in a macro PvsP match on a good day.
As for group B, ggaemo has good chance actually. Guy has been playing well for several months now, and this group is perfect for him. I will go with ggaemo 1st, and ZerO 2nd.
Group C Light and hero
D.... Damnit, Shine is cooked >=[[[ Probably effort 1st, and SnOw 2nd. Can shineee win a bo3 tvsp against snow ? May be, probably not.
Group A I'm not even going to second-guess Soma. Even as a protoss player, Rush deserves a break.
Group B This group seems to revolve around JD's offline form and if Leta is a legit gatekeeper.
Group C The strongest group IMO. Even JyJ is quietly good and unconfident Hero is still Hero.
Group D The fun group. Snow has been playing godlike in the last few weeks of offline matches. effOrt's condition looks good lately too. Shine and SHINee both displayed good game sense in the Ro24. I hope they don't treat their shot as a throwaway like Calm.
Contrary to popular belief, I’m going to stick it out there that there’s a nontrivial chance Soma will not make it out of group A. Both Rush and Best are in god form recently.
Group A: soma smash, 2nd place is a roulette spin, hoping for Best
Group B: Queen smash, 2nd place I want to be JD but we should know better by now
Group C: absolute death, need to rewatch the selection to see how this happened it's insane, I would have to go with Light to get out but can't even pick a place necessarily
Group D: if the previous one is the D then this has to be the group of life for Snow, don't think it really matters who comes out second, but hoping it's Shine
On September 03 2026 13:06 Simplistik wrote: Can someone explain the the point of the hallucinated minerals on Odyssey?
slows down gas steal and prevents fastest-map style mid build protoss rushes
example: byul (#2 fastest map player to brain) dropping a game to a foreigner using midbuild
it is defendable, i've seen flash defend it going CC first, and brain pretty much never loses to it, but it would be such a pain for non-fastest map players to learn how to defend it
i wouldn't call it an all-in, it's kinda the fastest map equivalent of tvz 8rax... really strong early-game pressure
I'm done watching this trash. When they fix the maps to not be rigged in zerg's favor I'll come back, in the meantime enjoy having yet another zerg champion. The zerg cabal has killed brood war, enjoy your endless zvz.
On September 08 2026 03:58 TheAceOfHearts wrote: I'm done watching this trash. When they fix the maps to not be rigged in zerg's favor I'll come back, in the meantime enjoy having yet another zerg champion. The zerg cabal has killed brood war, enjoy your endless zvz.
On September 08 2026 03:58 TheAceOfHearts wrote: I'm done watching this trash. When they fix the maps to not be rigged in zerg's favor I'll come back, in the meantime enjoy having yet another zerg champion. The zerg cabal has killed brood war, enjoy your endless zvz.
I agree with you. It's becoming unwatchable. We're definitely living the worst broodwar timeline at the moment.
EPT
ASL/22 ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/A41WHhb.jpeg)
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Kept whining and 910 laughed it off, saying tomorrow's the deadline for map feedback, which incensed Bisu even more... ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ePWf8g3.jpeg)
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Sharp (2:0 
ggaemo (2:1 
Shuttle)
Jaedong and Effort![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/xZDb6Hu.png)
Royal eliminated again, also...
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Bisu took all of June and ~half of July off, only recently re-entering the fray. Will be interesting to see how he drives the PvZ numbers, and perhaps the tactics, on these maps in the next few months
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