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stambe
Bulgaria498 Posts
On July 09 2026 11:44 Simplistik wrote: Somehow, somebody missed the entire point of discussing this map. Haha, oh well, bye. He got the Ghost treatment from the mods. I say we Nuke the entire site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure! | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10569 Posts
On July 09 2026 16:07 Soulforged wrote: Does it even favor P with the amount of minerals that will be present in main, which would be much lower than fastest? I'm not actually sure how it'd play out with immediately reaching saturation and Zerg-like worker counts. Well, fast nexus openers will saturate natural faster etc, the build time requirements overall will make rushes weaker, so it probably does still favor P, but we can't just treat it as fastest. I don't think it's as much about the number of minerals in the main, but rather the speed in gathering. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia983 Posts
Has to favor P in first minute if only because they do not occupy/spend workers to make buildings(opportunity cost goes way up), but interesting implications after saturation is reached really fast, but natural not up yet. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5964 Posts
Would delaying Supply Depot by 1 scv make you hit a better timing later? Why? Get 8 workers for all 8 block asap. Make 9th /10th / 11th / 12th all start buildlng shit. I would really like to see some graph that shows the income rate vs workers. You hit your ideal saturation already at 8. Or does a 9th still not make you suffer from dimished returns? When do you hit full saturation? At 10-11 workers? | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia983 Posts
For example, in matchups like PvP, where natural is normally taken slowly(relative to other P MU's), there's quite a bit of play around when to make a nexus. With full saturation of main, there are viable options of taking that nexus at mid 20's on a prolonged probe cut, pausing at 30 precisely for a small cut, and also non-stop production, oversaturating main while the natural is making, and there's tradeoffs for all those options. Do you oversaturate to have workers to transfer? Do you cut probes to make nexus earlier to be able to make more probes earlier, and have extra mineral line faster for better efficiency? Do you cut probes to follow up with units despite expanding, either defensively or offensively? That type of stuff can get pretty deep in PvP simply because viable nexus timings are close on the timeline to the saturation point(e.g. 5-6min). Meanwhile, something like PvZ or PvT, while having plenty variance, once initial openers are known to both players, has much less choice. Quick main saturation may introduce that type of early game factor into more matchups, and it just acts _weird_. Usually oversaturation is diminishing returns before near-flat 0, here it'll be static until near-flat 0(probably, didn't test). Then there's the fact that normally an extra mineral line increases efficiency even when undersaturated, but here you are nearly guaranteed to hit saturation before natural is done, and natural has worse efficiency than main... I'd rather have a more conservative experimentation in this direction, such as more 10 or 11 mineral patch main maps, but I can't deny this is interesting. | ||
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z7-TranCe
Canada3174 Posts
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