EPTWhat do you think?
Would Flash be as sucesful if he was zerg or toss?
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SiarX
133 Posts
What do you think? | ||
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Expensive-Law-9830
130 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4290 Posts
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
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oxKnu
1267 Posts
I think with Protoss he would be the best P of all time but only with a couple of ASLs, a career similar to Rain's but with much better consistency but the only race where he would not dominate the scene/game as a whole, for a significant amount of time. Protoss would take him longer than Terran to maximize his skill, Zerg much less before he is successful, much longer than both other races before he maxes out. | ||
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SiarX
133 Posts
On September 02 2024 07:05 oxKnu wrote: I think as Zerg he could, but with a worse record. I think with Protoss he would be the best P of all time but only with a couple of ASLs, a career similar to Rain's but with much better consistency but the only race where he would not dominate the scene/game as a whole, for a significant amount of time. Protoss would take him longer than Terran to maximize his skill, Zerg much less before he is successful, much longer than both other races before he maxes out. Why protoss cannot dominate as a whole, and zerg has worse record? | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1560 Posts
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angry_maia
332 Posts
Furthermore, I think PvZ is quite volatile as well -- Z can always choose to gamble between 3-hatch hydra, 2-hatch muta, or even a ling bust, which makes it hard to consistently crush Z as P. I'm not saying T is imba, I"m rather saying that with T, you can more reliably expect the best player to win (at a sufficiently high level). | ||
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johnnyh123
124 Posts
Michael Jordan was an amazing basketball player and a great baseball player (yeah his stats sucked as a baseball player, but he was a better baseball player than any of us here on tl.net). If he chose baseball to dedicate his life to, I am 100% sure he will make it into MLB, and might do well, but will in no way be a HoF or the GOAT of baseball. Flash made the right choice to be Terran, it's what he was meant to be. I'm sure if he choose Zerg/Toss, he will crush any of us here at tl.net, but he wouldn't be the GOAT of SC1. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On September 04 2024 15:44 johnnyh123 wrote: No I don't think Flash would be as successful if he was a Zerg or Toss. You could argue that the best player will win with any race, but I do think nature/mindset defines you. Michael Jordan was an amazing basketball player and a great baseball player (yeah his stats sucked as a baseball player, but he was a better baseball player than any of us here on tl.net). If he chose baseball to dedicate his life to, I am 100% sure he will make it into MLB, and might do well, but will in no way be a HoF or the GOAT of baseball. Flash made the right choice to be Terran, it's what he was meant to be. I'm sure if he choose Zerg/Toss, he will crush any of us here at tl.net, but he wouldn't be the GOAT of SC1. That’s a great comparison | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1324 Posts
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
On September 02 2024 11:55 jinjin5000 wrote: https://youtu.be/d7LE1jFd-Yc?si=Us53IH3kK6JWw7bW What I love most about Flash is his humility. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27463 Posts
I don’t know a huge amount about BW, more than average Joe and Jane in the street, but fuck all compared to some of you folks so interested to hear your insight For examples in the inverse, would Clem and Serral be as good if they swapped races? Almost certainly not IMO. Clem has monster micro and quelle surprise does well with the faction that rewards that best. Likewise Serral with his ability to read a game state like no other and playing the defensively reactive faction. I think most folks tend to gravitate towards what they think is initially cool, and if it really doesn’t suit their approach to the game make a switch. But I mean once you’re a progamer the latter takes on a whole other dimension in importance. I’m actually surprised that race switching across both games is so comparatively rare | ||
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Kraekkling
755 Posts
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
On September 04 2024 18:48 WombaT wrote: Expanding this out, what players actually probably did pick the ‘wrong’ race? I don’t know a huge amount about BW, more than average Joe and Jane in the street, but fuck all compared to some of you folks so interested to hear your insight For examples in the inverse, would Clem and Serral be as good if they swapped races? Almost certainly not IMO. Clem has monster micro and quelle surprise does well with the faction that rewards that best. Likewise Serral with his ability to read a game state like no other and playing the defensively reactive faction. I think most folks tend to gravitate towards what they think is initially cool, and if it really doesn’t suit their approach to the game make a switch. But I mean once you’re a progamer the latter takes on a whole other dimension in importance. I’m actually surprised that race switching across both games is so comparatively rare I suspect a significant factor is who your heroes are. If you got into SC because of Boxer then you'll stick with Terran etc.? There are of course successful players from all races to emulate. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia559 Posts
TvT is far less of a tossup compared to PvP and ZvZ in TvZ Z has to play almost perfect to survive until defiler, and Z early game cheese is almost non existent (hydra rush, 4/5 pool, lurk all in, ling all in, are all subpar and very rare), while T early game can cripple Z and still transition into normal game, like with a proxy rax in TvP T is behind by the slightest of margins, if any On the other hand, P will die to Z ling, muta and specially hydra rushes due to impossibility of scouting, will die to DT rushes, will lose reaver/goon fights here and there, and all in all will never be able to dominate consistently. Similar for Z as it will die to T like nothing sometimes, for example because it didn't defend perfectly vs first drops (which it normally can't scout while T sees everything with scan), or the sunkens or lurkers were 2 seconds late | ||
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Piste
6184 Posts
On September 04 2024 18:52 Kraekkling wrote: People have argued that Terran dominance in broodwar is not due to the fact that Terran is the best race, but people never argued that Zerg or Protoss is the best race. Who are these people? This is the first time I hear about this :0 | ||
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TMNT
3381 Posts
On September 04 2024 22:39 Piste wrote: Who are these people? This is the first time I hear about this :0 I think what he means is that there are people who say Terran dominance is not because Terran is the best race. But if that is true, that means either Protoss or Zerg is the best race. But the same people have never said so, effectively contradicting themselves. Of course said people could also say all 3 races are equal. But that is simply impossible. The fact that they are 3 different races with literally every unit and building being different already confirms there has to be an order of power, no matter how small the margin is. Now that margin obviously can be overcome with skills, hence we can have things like a pro beating a B ranker with one hand. But at very top when everyone maxes out their skills, so there's less potential to overcome such margin and that's where we see the clearest impact of race power. | ||
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Ideas
United States8180 Posts
On September 02 2024 05:04 Simplistik wrote: I kinda doubt it. Not even Jaedong made it to (the perhaps rather arbitrary) Bonjwa level... I think the only thing that stopped JD from being considered a bonjwa was the existence of flash lol. If flash didn't exist JD would have won at least 2-3 more titles and be the most successful progamer ever during the kespa era. | ||
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