• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:55
CEST 15:55
KST 22:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy3GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion JD's Ro24 review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The China Politics Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1837 users

What Tier would non-pro Koreans be? - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
June 29 2020 17:31 GMT
#21
On June 30 2020 01:32 Bonyth wrote:
Sorry, I intended to keep my mouth shut, but false data hit me for 9999 damage.
Please stop with the false claims sadego, i have never played against Bisu, at least not his protoss.

As for everyone else, here is your ASL god of random dying to a mere foreigner PvZ

[image loading]


Fake picture, Bonyth doesn't have 245 APM.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6832 Posts
June 29 2020 17:35 GMT
#22
Tier 7 is accurate.That korean tier is made on actual skills and not the lucky wins u doing vs progamers on turnrate 10.Just by seeing Scan in tier 5 and how he was 1 game away from getting in ASL tells a lot.
Bonyth
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland597 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-29 17:38:14
June 29 2020 17:36 GMT
#23
Onlystar, I'm gonna wait for StarLink and TR24 on the whole globe to prove it to you I can compete with some of them progamers.

Games on TR10 don't tell shit, as mentioned by eonzerg.

I guess what im trying to say is that I dont feel like I'm below all the players on this list.
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
June 29 2020 17:42 GMT
#24
On June 30 2020 02:36 Bonyth wrote:
Onlystar, I'm gonna wait for StarLink and TR24 on the whole globe to prove it to you I can compete with some of them progamers.

Games on TR10 don't tell shit, as mentioned by eonzerg.

I guess what im trying to say is that I dont feel like I'm below all the players on this list.
Bold statement my man. Can't wait to see the results!
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
June 29 2020 18:23 GMT
#25
On June 30 2020 02:36 Bonyth wrote:
Onlystar, I'm gonna wait for StarLink and TR24 on the whole globe to prove it to you I can compete with some of them progamers.

Games on TR10 don't tell shit, as mentioned by eonzerg.

I guess what im trying to say is that I dont feel like I'm below all the players on this list.


is this fake bonyth lol? trolling?
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4246 Posts
June 29 2020 18:23 GMT
#26
Tier 5 in my opinion.

many top tier foreigners can get games from pro and semi-pro gamers
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
June 29 2020 18:25 GMT
#27
On June 30 2020 03:23 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
Tier 5 in my opinion.

many top tier foreigners can get games from pro and semi-pro gamers


ladder games are meaningless even more so on tr14 and beneath
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
June 29 2020 18:45 GMT
#28
On June 30 2020 02:35 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Tier 7 is accurate.That korean tier is made on actual skills and not the lucky wins u doing vs progamers on turnrate 10.Just by seeing Scan in tier 5 and how he was 1 game away from getting in ASL tells a lot.


I have to agree. With comparison to Scan, tier 6 is the highest i can see a reasonable argument for.+ Show Spoiler +
until bony practices on Starlink ofc :D
Broodwar for life!
DeLoAdEr
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Japan527 Posts
June 29 2020 19:13 GMT
#29
ElkY Tier 1
Shinokuki
Profile Joined July 2013
United States923 Posts
June 30 2020 01:13 GMT
#30
On June 30 2020 02:36 Bonyth wrote:
Onlystar, I'm gonna wait for StarLink and TR24 on the whole globe to prove it to you I can compete with some of them progamers.

Games on TR10 don't tell shit, as mentioned by eonzerg.

I guess what im trying to say is that I dont feel like I'm below all the players on this list.


Look man you are obviously #1 foreigner atm by far but as soon as you face people on sponbbangs you're going to realize the horrific reality that is korean scene. These pros know the TINIEST details we don't even know that it existed. As soon as you are vulnerable they exploit the crap out of that. When Soma stepped into pro scene he realized how ridiculous these pros were. (Soma was actually semi pro and reached #1 ladder (something you could never do).
Life is just life
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-30 02:01:32
June 30 2020 01:42 GMT
#31
It's tough to say because online play and offline play is completely different. Bonyth for example is around 2500-2600 in skill which is around what a solid korean amateur is. Being able to transfer your online play to an offline setting gets overlooked a lot tho, that's where the main separation occurs imo (kors have way more experience than us in that regard).
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-30 02:08:21
June 30 2020 02:04 GMT
#32
Im korean citizen and served korean military service for 2 years. I still dont understand why im called foreigner.

Anyways, that tier division list is created by your previous asl performance. Queen earned like 4100pts because he won asl9, but he didnt do well in asl8 and that contributed 0 pts. If he did not win asl9, maybe lost in ro8 or so, he wouldve been in tier 3 due to his performance. Take a look at S8 pts contribution and S9 pts contribution.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



A week ago resun`z team did internal ranking practice war(playing each other all bo1) and light and i won 5-1 and i got a 1st place(same score, but light lost to me) in a team. Does that mean im better than light who was in tier 1? Definitely no. I have lack of stage games experience, there are multiple playstyles out there and coach cannot be sending me out vs all tier 1 players.

During the time in scbw, fish server, top pro <-> regular pro, regular pro <-> top amateurs, top amateurs <-> top foreigners were huge skill gaps.

However due to the stream quality, easy to approach VODs(youtube) i do think some foreign players like dewalt, eon, trutacz are slowly catching up the gap between top amateurs <-> top foreigners.

I acknowledge bonyth, dewalt, eon, trutacz, terror, and more players are significantly improving with their skills and learning new/making meta(bonyth carrier style)
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
tankgirl
Profile Blog Joined May 2016
Canada452 Posts
June 30 2020 02:52 GMT
#33
On June 30 2020 11:04 LaStScan wrote:

During the time in scbw, fish server, top pro <-> regular pro, regular pro <-> top amateurs, top amateurs <-> top foreigners were huge skill gaps.



To put these skill gaps in perspective, remember that Larva beat the top Chinese amateur with his feet.
https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/627255-progamer-settings
TL+ Member
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3024 Posts
June 30 2020 03:14 GMT
#34
This reminds me of when people like Idra, Nony and others went to korea as the top foreigners and people here were having high hopes, yet they got proper smashed for months, I mean it's not like they weren't good, but there's a gap that is hard to see sometimes. In Idra's case, he was winning pretty much every nonkor tournament, even more than Bony right now, and still he was barely even a B-teamer in korea.
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
June 30 2020 03:46 GMT
#35
shouldn't the title be changed to "non-Korean pros"?
blabberrrrr
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-30 03:57:09
June 30 2020 03:52 GMT
#36
On June 30 2020 10:13 Shinokuki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2020 02:36 Bonyth wrote:
Onlystar, I'm gonna wait for StarLink and TR24 on the whole globe to prove it to you I can compete with some of them progamers.

Games on TR10 don't tell shit, as mentioned by eonzerg.

I guess what im trying to say is that I dont feel like I'm below all the players on this list.


Look man you are obviously #1 foreigner atm by far but as soon as you face people on sponbbangs you're going to realize the horrific reality that is korean scene. These pros know the TINIEST details we don't even know that it existed. As soon as you are vulnerable they exploit the crap out of that. When Soma stepped into pro scene he realized how ridiculous these pros were. (Soma was actually semi pro and reached #1 ladder (something you could never do).


have to agree with Shinokuki..

@Bonyth until you got something to show for.. results(spon matches non ladder games)on TR20/16llow vs (offline results) vs tier5/4/3/2 etc it would look graceful on you to stay humble until you reach your goal right now this comes off as misplaced and misguided
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
June 30 2020 04:35 GMT
#37
Trust me, korean pros do not know every single detail about in-game situations, nor build orders. They didn't have chance to train with me enough to see everything.
TL+ Member
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
June 30 2020 04:36 GMT
#38
On June 30 2020 11:52 tankgirl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2020 11:04 LaStScan wrote:

During the time in scbw, fish server, top pro <-> regular pro, regular pro <-> top amateurs, top amateurs <-> top foreigners were huge skill gaps.



To put these skill gaps in perspective, remember that Larva beat the top Chinese amateur with his feet.


he is just a returning past legend, not the top chinese amateur at that time, far from it.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10700 Posts
June 30 2020 05:36 GMT
#39
On June 30 2020 12:14 LG)Sabbath wrote:
This reminds me of when people like Idra, Nony and others went to korea as the top foreigners and people here were having high hopes, yet they got proper smashed for months.


Come on bro, 2nd in Courage, that was huge.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3130 Posts
June 30 2020 06:25 GMT
#40
I would think Tier 6 maybe.
Artosis loves Starcraft
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #243
Liquipedia
WardiTV Team League
11:00
Playoffs Day 3
WardiTV893
ComeBackTV 613
RotterdaM427
IndyStarCraft 215
Rex116
3DClanTV 47
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #127
Classic vs SHINLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings128
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 427
IndyStarCraft 215
LamboSC2 180
ProTech125
Rex 116
Hui .32
Railgan 23
Codebar 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 65721
Calm 4868
Bisu 3718
Shuttle 832
EffOrt 684
Mini 499
ZerO 364
BeSt 360
Hyuk 352
actioN 344
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 342
Rush 300
Light 299
firebathero 167
Last 130
Aegong 111
Killer 84
Nal_rA 74
Shinee 60
Mind 60
Hyun 50
ToSsGirL 50
Barracks 47
Sea.KH 43
Backho 40
Hm[arnc] 36
Sexy 35
Free 32
Movie 31
scan(afreeca) 24
GoRush 23
soO 21
yabsab 14
Terrorterran 10
IntoTheRainbow 10
ivOry 7
Icarus 6
NotJumperer 0
Dota 2
Gorgc8348
qojqva1771
Fuzer 136
Counter-Strike
zeus560
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor170
Other Games
singsing1887
B2W.Neo1393
Liquid`RaSZi1184
DeMusliM402
XaKoH 218
Mew2King61
QueenE60
ZerO(Twitch)21
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL960
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP88
• Adnapsc2 11
• Response 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2490
• Jankos2205
• TFBlade1191
Upcoming Events
BSL
5h 6m
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
5h 6m
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
Replay Cast
19h 6m
Wardi Open
20h 6m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 6m
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 2h
OSC
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 20h
GSL
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Escore
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
IPSL
6 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.