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Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
December 04 2017 17:31 GMT
#161
I can't believe anybody seriously thinks iNcontrol was mad at Larva. He was just trolling him and being funny in the Geoff way as always. I laughed my ass off during the post game interview, not once did I think Geoff was mad.

I had to laugh so hard when Geoff said "Maybe more research could be done". How could anybody think he was serious or mad?

And yeah this is only blowing up now because of China being proud as usual. If the other player had been Draco or any of the western foreigners, everything would be fine.

But since it's Asian culture I am surprised that Larva doesn't get it and did what he did. It was bound to produce drama, since it was Korea vs China.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3024 Posts
December 04 2017 17:36 GMT
#162
On December 05 2017 02:03 Chrysanthemum wrote:
I think it’s pretty much inarguable that what Larva did was rude and disrespectful given that his opponent was not in on the joke. It’s patently obvious that it will be insulting in these circumstances. I don’t think Larva was being malicious, but it really reflects poorly on his self-judgment that this wasn’t apparent to him.

What does amaze me is the level of vitriol we’re seeing in the defenses put forward for Larva by various people in this thread and elsewhere. The most common seems to be that Larva’s antics made the series more entertaining and that Lx would have lost anyways. Well, no shit? What’s that got to do with whether it was rude or insulting or offensive? Larva does these things on his stream all the time, but that’s a different context than doing it in a livecasted LAN showmatch where *everyone* knows he is the overwhelming favorite and where he has basically been given a free trip to the US to be handed a $10k check. Another is "maybe Lx should have won if he didn't like it" or "maybe Lx should get good instead of crying." Again...???? What's that got to do with whether it was insulting or rude?

It seems incredibly difficult for some people to hold these two ideas in their mind simultaneously: that what Larva did was rude, but that they also found it entertaining. I guess the conclusion that follows--that you enjoyed something that many found to be meanspirited--is too much to admit? Therefore Larva was entirely justified and there is no issue whatsoever despite the objective fact that there seems to be a 50/50 split between that opinion and the opinion that it was rude and insulting? (and again--it doesn't need to be a split, because the two ideas can exist simultaneously). Come on.

I honestly feel like if you can’t see this you’re either still a teenager who’s never had to interact in the adult world or you’re the kind of person who is completely socially oblivious and is a pain in the ass for those in your social orbit.

Your ad-hominem at the end really detracts from what was otherwise a well argumented post.

Btw on a side note, Draco vs Larva was pretty entertaining yet equally one-sided, so the argument that this stuff was needed otherwise the games would be boring is really not working for me.
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1606 Posts
December 04 2017 17:37 GMT
#163
On December 05 2017 02:36 LG)Sabbath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2017 02:03 Chrysanthemum wrote:
I think it’s pretty much inarguable that what Larva did was rude and disrespectful given that his opponent was not in on the joke. It’s patently obvious that it will be insulting in these circumstances. I don’t think Larva was being malicious, but it really reflects poorly on his self-judgment that this wasn’t apparent to him.

What does amaze me is the level of vitriol we’re seeing in the defenses put forward for Larva by various people in this thread and elsewhere. The most common seems to be that Larva’s antics made the series more entertaining and that Lx would have lost anyways. Well, no shit? What’s that got to do with whether it was rude or insulting or offensive? Larva does these things on his stream all the time, but that’s a different context than doing it in a livecasted LAN showmatch where *everyone* knows he is the overwhelming favorite and where he has basically been given a free trip to the US to be handed a $10k check. Another is "maybe Lx should have won if he didn't like it" or "maybe Lx should get good instead of crying." Again...???? What's that got to do with whether it was insulting or rude?

It seems incredibly difficult for some people to hold these two ideas in their mind simultaneously: that what Larva did was rude, but that they also found it entertaining. I guess the conclusion that follows--that you enjoyed something that many found to be meanspirited--is too much to admit? Therefore Larva was entirely justified and there is no issue whatsoever despite the objective fact that there seems to be a 50/50 split between that opinion and the opinion that it was rude and insulting? (and again--it doesn't need to be a split, because the two ideas can exist simultaneously). Come on.

I honestly feel like if you can’t see this you’re either still a teenager who’s never had to interact in the adult world or you’re the kind of person who is completely socially oblivious and is a pain in the ass for those in your social orbit.

Your ad-hominem at the end really detracts from what was otherwise a well argumented post.

Btw on a side note, Draco vs Larva was pretty entertaining yet equally one-sided, so the argument that this stuff was needed otherwise the games would be boring is really not working for me.

I enjoyed Draco vs Larva the most out of all the games, It was far from one-sided, Draco won game 1 and nearly won game 2. Very entertaining series!
Incomplete..ReV
Profile Joined August 2017
Norway668 Posts
December 04 2017 17:43 GMT
#164
What's the point in having a show match if you don't put on a show? Even someone who's as anal about manners as I am (not that anyone knows me), don't see a problem with what happened.

And people seriously thought iNcontroL was mad!? Are people really that bad at reading the situation?
It's ok. I still love you <3
ii.blitzkrieg
Profile Joined November 2006
Canada1122 Posts
December 04 2017 17:47 GMT
#165
On December 05 2017 02:31 Musicus wrote:
I can't believe anybody seriously thinks iNcontrol was mad at Larva. He was just trolling him and being funny in the Geoff way as always. I laughed my ass off during the post game interview, not once did I think Geoff was mad.

I had to laugh so hard when Geoff said "Maybe more research could be done". How could anybody think he was serious or mad?

And yeah this is only blowing up now because of China being proud as usual. If the other player had been Draco or any of the western foreigners, everything would be fine.

But since it's Asian culture I am surprised that Larva doesn't get it and did what he did. It was bound to produce drama, since it was Korea vs China.


Ya, I was laughing as hard at the foot as I was at Inc's trolling during the interview, super obvious he was 100% joking with Larva. Might be harder for Larva to understand through a translator though, why he thought he was mad at him.

I think if it was done to Draco there would still be blowback, polish fanboys would be irate and Draco is much more of a presence in foreign BW, has a lot of fans, but also I think Draco possibly would have had more of a sense of humor about it, not sure.
iloveoov / Flash / Fantasy / Midas / Boxer -BW forever
r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
December 04 2017 17:51 GMT
#166
I bet half the people in this thread sent angry emails to Destiny's sponsors. The other half are probably BW fans.
quinnyfizzle
Profile Joined May 2007
United States10 Posts
December 04 2017 17:57 GMT
#167
The amount of people offended by larva's actions is astounding. It's a fucking showmatch! Do any of you guys ever watch all-star games or showmatches in other sports or games? Goofing around and flaunting is NORMAL. Especially so when there is a gigantic discrepancy in head to head skill level.

If the tournament host wanted fair competition they should have really considered who they were inviting to this tournament. One look at the commentary for any of the larva games and you already know the casters have no interest in such a one sided game. They don't even fucking discuss the current game. They're talking about random bullshit lol
angrypofke
Profile Joined March 2017
Lithuania174 Posts
December 04 2017 18:01 GMT
#168
Guys, you have to look at the big picture:

For a struggling game like Starcraft, this is AMAZING!
A lot of non-bw nerds were watching that, and they will be talking about it for a long time to come. They will be talking about Starcraft. All the Chinese news media talking about Starcraft.
Next time there is an event like that all those, that normally wouldn't even know, will tune in just for the drama.

"There's no such thing as bad publicity"
_Animus_
Profile Joined February 2011
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-04 18:06:56
December 04 2017 18:03 GMT
#169
On December 05 2017 02:57 quinnyfizzle wrote:
The amount of people offended by larva's actions is astounding. It's a fucking showmatch! Do any of you guys ever watch all-star games or showmatches in other sports or games? Goofing around and flaunting is NORMAL. Especially so when there is a gigantic discrepancy in head to head skill level.

If the tournament host wanted fair competition they should have really considered who they were inviting to this tournament. One look at the commentary for any of the larva games and you already know the casters have no interest in such a one sided game. They don't even fucking discuss the current game. They're talking about random bullshit lol

Being disrespectful and acting like a moron doesnt bring any show, it might be fun for a while but thats making fun of someone else in public which is a shitty thing to do. Show might happen if larva actually prepared something funny like crazy builds, cool ceremonies and jokes. Acting like he is bored of his opponent level is nowhere near show, thats again just being a moron.

About incontrol, imo he was looking kinda off almost all the time, not related to Larva. His attitude was like "i dont belong here" maybe he had different thing on his mind or something. He look like more serious grown up man compared to the other more nerdy guys around him.
Luv ya BroodWar!
HansenZ
Profile Joined September 2017
49 Posts
December 04 2017 18:06 GMT
#170
Larva is just too naive. He didn't know about the consequences.
Why Zotac invite Legend from China? It's not because of his skills, it's because of the huge China gaming market.

After Larva's showtime, every people in China will be against Zotac for sure.
Just like Chinese people against Korea Lemart. And Lemart goes bankruptcy.

Let's see what will happen Larva just put Zotac in a shitty position right now. Nice Job!
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3024 Posts
December 04 2017 18:09 GMT
#171
On December 05 2017 03:01 angrypofke wrote:
Guys, you have to look at the big picture:

For a struggling game like Starcraft, this is AMAZING!
A lot of non-bw nerds were watching that, and they will be talking about it for a long time to come. They will be talking about Starcraft. All the Chinese news media talking about Starcraft.
Next time there is an event like that all those, that normally wouldn't even know, will tune in just for the drama.

"There's no such thing as bad publicity"

In general it might be true, but bad publicity doesn't make kids want to play the game more, only puts it in the newspapers, which might make Blizzard money and that's it.

Otherwise the whole match fixing and the Sea scandal would have made an impact on the player base. It only made an impact on Sea's subscriber count.
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
December 04 2017 18:10 GMT
#172
Imo Larva is the best thing to happen to post-SC2 SC:BW. I don't agree that his antics are detrimental to the game. He's the perfect showman/villain and he's breathing life into the community.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
AManHasNoName
Profile Joined September 2017
United States165 Posts
December 04 2017 18:16 GMT
#173
On December 05 2017 03:10 Magic Powers wrote:
Imo Larva is the best thing to happen to post-SC2 SC:BW. I don't agree that his antics are detrimental to the game. He's the perfect showman/villain and he's breathing life into the community.


This a thousand times over.
“To love the journey is to accept no such end. I have found, through painful experience, that the most important step a person can take is always the next one.”
thinkinger
Profile Joined December 2017
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-04 18:25:47
December 04 2017 18:25 GMT
#174
Not all publicity attracts people. People play games for fun. This publicity is giving people the impression that in this game, gamers frequently humiliate opponents of less skills, and others cheer for it. Then why would one play this game, especially it takes months or even years to just learn the basic skills?
fickazzz
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany152 Posts
December 04 2017 18:28 GMT
#175
Legend is such a pussy... Shame on Zotac for banning Larva for putting up a show ... in a showmatch lol
MMA_fan_
Profile Joined October 2017
United States35 Posts
December 04 2017 18:33 GMT
#176
It's easy to see both sides of this. The uproar is certainly understood but that seems to be more of a Chinese nationalism thing than anything else. Not to mention with Zotac being a Chinese company, the upset Chinese gamers are their primary market. It would be stupid of them to not do something about this.

On the other hand, it's a showmatch. With Larva having been able to fool around in past games of this tournament, it's easy to see why he thought he could get away with doing these things. He's a showman for sure, on his stream and in tournaments. This was just kind of on another level of showmanship, though. I think the whole foot thing maybe took it a bit too far. I mean, for god sakes, Legend was even laughing after he saw that Larva killed off his own drone in game 1. It's easy to see that there was some fun to be had by doing such things, but it didn't need to go to that extent I think.

I also don't think that Legend's response was entirely appropriate. He called both Larva and his fans retarded, and said something along the lines of "these things are what separates you from being a number 1 player. Trash.." I mean, I get it that you're upset, I would be too if I was in Legend's shoes I think. But i mean...Legend lost to a guy that was playing with his foot. and with his eyes not even looking at the screen for a good portion of the time. If you lose to that, and you say that those antics are what separate Larva from a top pro, then what does that make you?

As I mentioned earlier, It's easy to see both sides, and I think the entire situation could have been handled differently by everyone involved. I don't know what the exact right answers are, because if I did then I would be the PR for these people, but there are things that are both right and wrong about this situation, from all parties involved. Hopefully everyone can come to an agreement of some sort soon, because this tournament was really entertaining to watch, including these crazy antics, and I'd love to see more of the tournament in the future
jangbi and bisu are my favorite players
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
December 04 2017 18:33 GMT
#177
On December 05 2017 03:25 thinkinger wrote:
Not all publicity attracts people. People play games for fun. This publicity is giving people the impression that in this game, gamers frequently humiliate opponents of less skills, and others cheer for it. Then why would one play this game, especially it takes months or even years to just learn the basic skills?

To be fair, the teamliquid thread is giving that impression, the reddit thread seems to be much lighter, people are taking it as comedy. People who've never played starcraft or who haven't for years aren't jumping to the though "WOW WHAT A DISGRACE"... I think it's only BW people doing that.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
AManHasNoName
Profile Joined September 2017
United States165 Posts
December 04 2017 18:38 GMT
#178
On December 05 2017 03:33 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2017 03:25 thinkinger wrote:
Not all publicity attracts people. People play games for fun. This publicity is giving people the impression that in this game, gamers frequently humiliate opponents of less skills, and others cheer for it. Then why would one play this game, especially it takes months or even years to just learn the basic skills?

To be fair, the teamliquid thread is giving that impression, the reddit thread seems to be much lighter, people are taking it as comedy. People who've never played starcraft or who haven't for years aren't jumping to the though "WOW WHAT A DISGRACE"... I think it's only BW people doing that.


Yeah, this is exactly it. Some portion of BW people are in an uproar about this. But, people who are generally interested in esports see it as entertaining and motivation to compete. I feel like a lot of the BW community is a bit out of touch with the main-stream esports scene.
“To love the journey is to accept no such end. I have found, through painful experience, that the most important step a person can take is always the next one.”
thinkinger
Profile Joined December 2017
21 Posts
December 04 2017 18:42 GMT
#179
On December 05 2017 03:33 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2017 03:25 thinkinger wrote:
Not all publicity attracts people. People play games for fun. This publicity is giving people the impression that in this game, gamers frequently humiliate opponents of less skills, and others cheer for it. Then why would one play this game, especially it takes months or even years to just learn the basic skills?

To be fair, the teamliquid thread is giving that impression, the reddit thread seems to be much lighter, people are taking it as comedy. People who've never played starcraft or who haven't for years aren't jumping to the though "WOW WHAT A DISGRACE"... I think it's only BW people doing that.


They are not jumping to play the game either - everybody likes comedy, but nobody wants to be the one being humiliated in a comedy. Would you send your kids to learn baseball where older teammates tease him everyday?
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
December 04 2017 18:43 GMT
#180
Was it BM? Obviously. But to ban him for it? That seems extreme, and Legend's reaction to it is unreasonable as well.

#FreeLarva
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
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