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United States33691 Posts
Well, watching OGN today, some things came to mind... That and PGR21.com is back up with some insaneinsane statistics.
Boxer's TvZ record on OGN = 30-7. Good god -_-
Junwi's ZvT record on OGN = 12-3. Oh man -_-
Boxer's TvZ record for all 3 channels = 47-26
Junwi's TvZ record for all 3 channels = 17-7 -_-....
All stats below are by Altair from http://cafe.daum.net/TogetherOSL, the Ongamenet Starleague Fan Cafe. AWESOME
OGN, MBCGame, GhemTV combined records....
Boxer: 90 wins, 54 losses
Yellow: 90 wins, 54 losses.
Coincidence! Their OGN wins today put them both at 91 wins now -_-.
Best vs T record!
z: Junwi(1st), 17-7
t: Nada(2nd), 18-9
p: ForU(tied for 5th), 7-6
Best vs Z record!
t: Nada(1st), 37-14
z: Skelton(2nd), 10-4
p: Zeus(5th), 15-8
Best vs P record!
t: Nada(1st), 23-8
z: Jinnam(3rd), 14-5
p: Garimto(tie for 12th), 6-4
Overall win ratio~
1st: Nada 78-31, 71.6%
2nd: Boxer 90-54, 62.5%
3rd: Yellow 90-54, 62.5%
Overall record!
Terran: 730 games. 389 wins 341 losses, 53.3%
Zerg: 766 games, 393 wins 373 losses, 51.3%
Protoss: 536 games, 234 wins, 302 losses, 43.7%
T : Z = 247(51.5%):233(48.5%)
Z : P = 160(55.9%):126(44.1%)
P : T = 103(43.2%):142(56.8%)
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Norway28879 Posts
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France1270 Posts
Thx very interesting.
and more fuel to the balance issues...
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
wow this is hard factual proof that P is the weakest race 
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its not that p has like z 80% and p 20 % its just 56 to 44 .. thats not THAT MUCH difference ..
maybe the wrong people are using protoss ;(
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and btw pls remember grrr.... reach and garimto all won very big tournaments ... as a protoss user ...
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ronin, grr won during another patch
it would be interesting if we had historical stats like this though
for previous leagues
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nice thx 
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thx waxy 
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i thought PvZ would be worse than that
only 41%, that's not bad.
good work sexywaxy
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5th is the highest toss placed vs any race which is sad T_T.
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
not really, its actually very good given overall statistics
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Sweden33719 Posts
There's a lot less games involving P than the other races (less high level toss users). Now I don't blame this on the race- I blame it on toss not having that many really high level players.
Regards FrozenArbiter
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If Boxer, Yellow and NaDa would all play protoss...OMG!!!
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On May 16 2003 22:50 ReTrooper wrote:
If Boxer, Yellow and NaDa would all play protoss...OMG!!!
They'd suck, too.
Okay, that's an overstatement...but I don't think Boxer would be that dominant if he were P user. Maybe I'm wrong.
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I dunno about nada, But Boxer and Yellow rule because of their smarts. Hell maybe yellow can see the zerg weakness better than most toss players could and use it. I would definitely like to see yellow as a toss player.
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Boxer would rule perhaps... cuz toss is more micro dominant...but yellow...I doubt he'd be as good as he is now... Especially since Zerg is macro dominant.
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By the statistics, terran owns protoss more than zerg?
Or is it just because terran pros are more skilled?
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haha
55-44%...
+P whiners stfu
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fw
Korea (South)1201 Posts
there's another post including the stats of 4 maps (ones which most games were played on each channels + LT).
http://www.pgr21.com/zboard4/view.php?id=newvod&no=1021
1. LT (total 93)
T 48-30-18 (62.5)
Z 37-20-17 (54.1)
P 41-13-28 (31.7)
T VS Z 12(54.5) VS 10(45.5)
Z VS P 10(66.7) VS 5(33.3)
P VS T 8(30.8) VS 18(69.2)
TvT - 6
ZvZ - 21
PvP - 3
(go to end of the post and find the map name. just see the numbers. formats and orders are the same as above)
2. Bifrost (116)
3. Plain To Hill (110)
4. Emperor of Emperor (26)
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just more proof that junwi is indeed god
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On May 17 2003 02:16 asdfers wrote:
Boxer would rule perhaps... cuz toss is more micro dominant...but yellow...I doubt he'd be as good as he is now... Especially since Zerg is macro dominant.
Yeah, but as Z goes... Yellow has shitty macro and awesome micro.
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55-44 is a lot bigger then you guys think. Almost balanced would be like tvz or pvt is.
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Norway28879 Posts
ya yellow has shitty macro
.....................
and napoleic according to those stats, terran has a larger edge over toss than zerg does.:O
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boxer would rule with toss simply becouse he is genious terran! or is that nada?
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Is there any stats (past or present) for other maps like Gaema etc?
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@Napoleic: PvT (43.2%) is more imbalanced than PvZ (44.1%) in this statistic!!!
Even worse on LT: PvT 8-18 and PvZ 5-10
so maybe it's not all about imbalance but about how many people play T,Z and P on a certain level of skill
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Er, about statistics... there's a line between what's "numbers only" and what shows in practice. I very much doubt a 1% difference is noticeable in real life. Statistics are cool, but only go so far.
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Not to mention PGRnet uses stats from the whole history of SC, so GRR is still a top 5 toss, Garim is still #3 or something and such. It would be better if we could get stats for the last 2 years or last years stats instead of stats since 4 years ago.
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very very interesting...i wonder what the new record is since may 18, now that toss are performing much better (i.e. zeus and nal_ra)
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Thanks for the stats man. Very interesting stuff.
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Also, this is more proof that Wax is indeed, the man.
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On May 17 2003 10:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
and napoleic according to those stats, terran has a larger edge over toss than zerg does.:O
not really, they just seem to show that pvz and pvt is imbalanced, the difference between pvz and pvt %s is no doubt statistically insignificant
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Not quite statistically insignificant...
56-44 eh, lets say we played and you won 14 i won 11. That is statistically insignificant because of the very small populatin size. Then lets say we play 100 games, you win 56 i win 44. Ok, thats still kinda small, but you won a lot more. Now lets say we play 300 games. You win what 168 i win 132. Thats a 35 game differential. Boxer wins 62.5% of his games according to this post, and 56% is halfway between that and equal. I consider boxer a top 3 progamer, so halfway between winning half and boxer is pretty damn good no? :/
Adding to this that pvt is more imbalanced statistically than pvz, its hardly insignificant.
However, in my opinion, the majority of the imbalance comes from the maps. If you think about pvz, island maps p owns, and land maps z owns. That really shows a big difference in imbalance. Let say for pvz, p wins 70% on islands? Is that a fair thing to say? Now, if p is winning this high of a percentage of games on islands, how bad must they be on other maps if they are only winning 44% of total games?
I dunno, who cares, bw is most balanced game ive ever seen, more balanced than chess, white/black :o
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Oh wow....im dyslexic...sorry HT, disregrd my retarded post... :o
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you guys have to remember that this is on LT. T > P badly in LT. take it to more island and bigger maps. spread those tanks out...less cliffing...its more balanced then.
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you people balance your ideas around LT. although...close maps favor t and bigger maps favor z. I'll tell you waht though.. ...if dire straits were played more..you'd see a lot of toss.
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EPT
