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[OSL]TvT is FUN Guys: Semi B Guide

Forum Index > BW General
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bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-28 15:27:11
July 15 2012 23:23 GMT
#1
[OSL]TvT is FUN Guys!
A basic introduction to key TvT ideas and techniques, and a TvT map analysis of the last OSL maps, as a preview for Semi B Fantasy v Flash.



+ Show Spoiler [Trivia] +
This guide turned out MUCH longer than I initially thought, and took much more time because of all the repetitive TvTs I had to watch q:
It may interest you then that listening to this cool indie band (which is not at all my style, but it was surprisingly nice) got me through spending all my weekend writing this, and is now forever mentally associated with TvT and this writeup <:


Who isn't hyped, hunh? We've already got the artwork competition running, keep 'em coming guys. These are the Last BW matches, the last OSL - there's no way people are gonna pass up EITHER semi-final (just look at that lineup)! However, your enjoyment of semi-B may be dampened by negative pre-conceptions about TvT. That's why this is here, to give a preview of the awesomeness to be expected next Tuesday, and not leave you feeling like I felt through all those ZvZ's.


Yes yes this could be a much more expansive guide, but really, I'm not sufficiently qualified or unoccupied to do that (unless you PM prod me enough). If you have an issue with ANYTHING I write herin, please please post it, with the appropriate section nomenculture and I'll gladly incorporate imporvements.
      e.g.
I know my shit son, B- in 4 months.
Section 3.B.III. You have made false claims against Flash, because you're a scrub. It should read:
"Flash has no weaknesses because OMG KT!"
- 'Chief' from "Arby 'n Chief"
I would reccomend reading everything, but its kinda long, and for more experienced followers of the game, most of the material until the first half of 1. is self-explainitory.




0. Primer

1. Basic Strategy Bits
      A. A TvT Look at Units
      B. Techniques and Key Ideas
      C. Expansion and Map Analysis Theory

2. The Maps and How They're Played
      A. Neo Ground Zero
      B. Neo Electric Circuit
      C. New Sniper Ridge
      D. Gladiator

3. The Players and Their Tendancies
A. Flash
B. Fantasy
      I. Cheeseyness / Rush
      II. Style, Control and Strengths
      III. Weaknesses (Recent Lost Games and Why)

4. VOD Research and Battle Reports
      A. Flash v Fantasy Ground Zero SPL Finals Battle Report
      B. Flash Recent Games on the Maps
      C. Fantasy Recent Games on the Maps




0. Primer
This quick section gives a newbie run-down of all the key terms and RTS ideas referred to herein - useful for those with little to no experience in Starcraft: Brood War
+ Show Spoiler [0. Primer] +
This guide is generally written for the casual BW spectator who does not play Terran as their main race, to demystify the TvT matchup and facilitate their enjoyment of the upcoming Semifinal B of the last ever Brood War Ongamenet Star League (OSL). This specific section exists in the case that you, the reader, are not part of that category, but would still like to learn about and enjoy the game(s).

Terminology
This guide uses many Starcraft 1: Brood War (BW) abbreviations
+ Show Spoiler [rax] +
barracks, initial production building that trains marines

+ Show Spoiler [fact] +
factory, second production building that trains vultures. An armoury is required to trai goliaths, and a tech shop addon is required to train tanks and research vulture seed boost and vulture mines.

+ Show Spoiler [vult] +
vulture

+ Show Spoiler [gol] +
goliath

+ Show Spoiler [valk] +
valkyrie

+ Show Spoiler [BC] +
battlecruiser

+ Show Spoiler [sci. fac.] +
science facility, tech building which is a pre-requisite for progressing beyond level one weapons and armour upgrades. Can build Covert Ops addon which allows for the training of Ghosts from the barracks, or the Physics Lab addon which allows for the training of Battlecruisers from the starport (with control tower addon)


B. RTS Terminology
+ Show Spoiler [main] +
Main base, the base where players spawn in at the start of a game

+ Show Spoiler [nat] +
Natural expansion, the first resource base directly outside of the player's main base, which leads to the rest of the map

+ Show Spoiler [backdoor nat] +
A natural expansion tucked away at the back of the players base, protected from direct frontal assault

+ Show Spoiler [backdoor] +
A ramp, often blocked by neutral buildings which have to be clearled to grant access, to the back of a main base, such as the ramp blocked by neutral tempes at the outside corner of the main bases on the map Neo Electric Circuit

+ Show Spoiler [3rd] +
A third expansion, often with gas, which one takes after expanding to one's natural

+ Show Spoiler [mineral only] +
an expansion site that contains only minerals and no gas


+ Show Spoiler [drop] +
to load uints into a flying transport unit, then unload them at a different location, normally in the opponents main base, at one of their expansions, or onto an undefended section of their army

+ Show Spoiler [worker harass] +
attacking the opponent's mining workers in an attempt to disrupt their economy, usually effectuated by dropping the harassing units near the mineral fields


That should be it, I guess. Liquipedia is a good resource for information of this level.






1. Basic Strategy Bits

This stuff should all be pretty obvious, if it is, don't be offended. If it isin't, good, that's what its for.

      A. A TvT Look at Units
+ Show Spoiler [I. Marine] +
The first fighting unit you get, not a key player except from forward 8-rax's, bunker rushes (lol no) and pre-tank pressure with first vultures. Dies very quick to Vultures, but before they're out, can hurt SCV's pretty bad.
Also Useful for sacrificing to clear minefields when scans are unavailable.

+ Show Spoiler [II. Vulture] +
The first real fighting unit. Lots of factories early on with no or only one addon usually indicate many vultures. Speed upgrade makes them much better at worker (drop) harass, and early mines allow for some map control, as it forces the opponent to be complacent in their base (unless they're good).

Good for early game pressure and assaults (in line-busts they sac damage, acting as meat-shields, and poop out mini-nukes near sieged tanks), but just die once the armies get meatier, because Goliaths and Tanks do lots of damage to them.

Vulures becoming useful again once gas gets scarce in the mid-game, to spend your extra minerals on units to help break lines, and can harass behind enemy lines. But just dumping minerals into vultures isn't always the best idea; more turrets and command centres could be more useful, especially when they're heavily fortified and can't be easily broken.

+ Show Spoiler [III. Tank] +
Arguably the most pivotal unit in TvT, it can shoot down bunkers unsieged, but the real power comes from siege mode. Tanks are strong, hearty, massive damage-dealers, just about the only things that can kill them easily is other tanks in siege mode. Since siege mode is a stationary ability, it brings a big defenders advantage. Attacking sieged tanks with unsieged tanks, you have to move within range, and either a-move or siege up. In both cases, the defending tanks will always get siege shots off first within this time, so to get anything done breaking a sieged position requires a notable army-size advantage.

Because they are so powerful at controlling areas, lines like trench-lines quickly develop, with opposing tanks sieged up in parallel skirmish lines, just out of range of each other. Planning, positioning, controlling and breaking said siege-lines is a key aspect of TvT gameplay.

+ Show Spoiler [IV. Goliath] +
Requires armoury to produce, and is primarily an anti-air support unit. They beat vultures and mines handily due to their fast re-fire rate and damage type, and do more dps to SCVs than vultures (hence 4gol drops are a common, deadly opener in lower level Bnet Lost Temple TvT games).

They die to tanks, especially sieged tanks, yet the opposite is true if they are dropped on sieged tanks with dropships (much more on that later). It is common to get a pair of goliaths early-on to kill the opponent's floating barracks, setting their factory-construction behind.

The anti-air missiles on goliaths can be upgraded in range, making them even more potent counters to dropships, wraiths and battlecruisers. Armoury (for goliath production) and Academy (for Comstat Station) go hand in hand in the early-game to block cloaked wraith attacks.

+ Show Spoiler [V. Wraith] +
Wraiths deal tiny air-to-ground damage (8pts), cost as much as tanks, yet die far more easily. They have strong air-to-air missiles, making them effective against dropships and battlecruisers, as well as floating scouting buildings, much like goliaths.
They play a different role in that wraiths give a MOBILE early-game vision advantage, aiding in eliminating enemy siege lines by not only giving the player's tanks more vision range (permitting 'leap-frogging'), but also by weakening enemy tanks enough to die in two shots siege shots.

A quick wraith, especially with cloaking ability, is useful for catching the opponent off-guard without anti-air\detection, hence the academy+armoury combination is standard early-game just to be safe. Once scan is implemented, cloak becomes effectively useless.

Wraiths re-emerge later on in the game in large numbers, as a way to harass and even break siege lines. They are especially common on maps that are unbuildable on the siege lines (no turrets, no anti air OR permanant detection). Maps with much elevation variation (ridges) generate siege lines that are much harder to break by land, and wraiths are used to gain vision and deal damage (pewpew times 15 starts hurting).

+ Show Spoiler [VI. Dropship] +
Dropships are fast transport units, good for early-game vulture and goliatih worker harass drops. Clearly, you need dropships for drop play, giving the immobile yet powerful mech army the ability to be just about anywhere; breaking siege lines, shutting down expansions, quickly seizing key positions (e.g. the opponent's production area) and even helping delivering some goliaths directly to the underbelly of lone battlecruisers.

They die very quickly to wraiths, goliaths and turrets, but the mobility and versatility they give the mech army makes them very valuable, and key targets. Until the endgame, at which point they (alng with SCVs) are often sacked to free up supply for battlecruisers.

+ Show Spoiler [VII. Battlecruiser] +
Battlecruisers are massive late-game wraiths, which don't die too quickly, deal decent damage to tanks, and are capable of clearing out even the most heavily entrenched positions with the great range of the Yamato Cannon. BC's are expensive, you need lots of gas and time to make them. There is a BC transition window, similar to PvT Carrier-switch, like if you've just started Karate classes, you're still vulnerable to get beat-up (and even more so if you're cocky) until you've levelled up your fighting skills. It can be dangerous to transition into BCs too quickly. As a general rule of thumb, when expansions are still vulnerable, drop play is preferable (you need some down-time to switch).

Hiding the Science Facility in a non-standard location can help delay the opponent scouting the Physics Lab addon (which indicates BC tech choice). Little ground army and lots of flashing starports WITH ADDON are also a pretty good indicator.

Briefly, counters to end-game battlecruisers are either your own battlecruisers (epic Yamato storms and EMP dodging ensues, NaDa pimpest play on [Neo?] Arkanoid), BC + wraith (because Wraith anti-air is awesome), or mass wraith (which Valks destroy handidly if you're not careful). Goliaths are always nice as they outrange BCs and can kite them, until a-Yamato-to-the-face.

+ Show Spoiler [IX. Valkyrie] +
These only used to be reserved as a late-game counter to mass-wraith, due to their large gas cost and relatively fragile stature. Recent developments see Valkyeries far earlier in the game, primarily as a deterrent to mass wraiths which would otherwise decimate tank lines.

It is important to strike a balance between vlaks, and something that can actually fight, because they can kill wraiths, but unlike wraiths, they can do nothing to bully tanks (see Fantasy Flash Neo Ground Zero Proleague Finals summary).

+ Show Spoiler [X. Other Units] +
Firebats are funny, I hope we'd see them, but being mele-ranged (radial damage-type), they die to just about everything except SCVs. See Fantasy Leta on Ground Zero.

Ghosts are awesome for Lockdown potential (reduce BC fleet effective-size) and nukes to force withdrawals from key locations, but they die just about as easy as marines and cost tons of gas (their numerous upgrades also). Awesome, but no. However Day[9] did theorycraft nukes in the midgame, lets hope to see it.

Science Vessels were only ever used for EMP on BC fleets to nullify Yamato energy reserves, until Fantasy used their Defensive Matrix ability to supplement his tank-lines during engagements, see Previously mentioned Flash Fantasy game (or Fanta Mind on same map, against another KT Terran). It was really cool, because it would give free 250hp, which is often more than enough to tip the scales in terms of "who's tanks die first?" . They do tend to die to valkyeries, but they have a much better sight range than wraiths.



      B. Techniques and Key Ideas
+ Show Spoiler [I. Early-Game Proxies] +
It isin't Katrina and Colloseum anymore (inbase 14cc good good yum yum), and although the naturals are tighter than they've ever been, it is no longer free to expand TOO quickly. To try and punish/pressure 14cc/rax CC, players often place their barracks somewhere in the middle of the map, and since they're all 4 player maps this season, we won't see any overly-cute proxy locations. Be careful to note if it's an 8 rax, which is played similar to 8rax TvZ, that is, denying expansion with bunker, or if its around the gas timing. The former is more risky and allin'ish, the latter safer, but in both cases, they allow you to float and barracks-scout your opponent quicker, but also mean you'll have less marines for defence and could get rolled in a counterattack (see Fantasy Hiya on Gladiator).

Proxy factories are much more for information denial than for getting to their base faster, because vultures get there fast anyways, and sometimes you see double proxy rax with goliaths, but that's only really ever Boxer.

+ Show Spoiler [II. "I Want Your Natural"] +
Before siege lines get entrenched in the explosive power-struggle of TvT, you need to take control of your natural. Nowadays it's less of an issue because the call and response of just about every TvT opening is expand and reply with your own expansion.

However, because Terrans have bunkers, mines and siege tanks, setting up a defensive position preventing your opponent's natural can be REALLY cost effective, not only delaying their economy but also costing them much more to break than you to make (unless you over-commit and have no army anywhere else and they circumvent with air units and harass you). That means if you can get control of that position for free, its really great. There were a lot of great TvT's on Othello (my favourite TvT map for all the terrain and positional diversity it offered) that revolved around one person trying to fact expand and the other pressuring them and preventing the expansion. Flash v Reality on Neo Electric Circuit is a good example of a very cost-effective agressive contain that keeps Reality in his base forever.

The period after your expansion is secured, when you have 3-4 tanks and are just moving out on the map is really key for establishing position. A common mistake is for weak players to stay completely in their base, allowing their opponent to freely walky walky across the map and siege up outside the opponent's natural, containing him. On the flip-side, you can pre-emptively move out and draw your initial line TOO FAR forward, and be out of position, for example, over-committing and doing something stupid (with exceptions) like sieging up on the far side of the big valley on Blue Storm, because you got excited and were able to get more land. This can backfire terribly, see Flash Fantasy Ground Zero writeup below (Flash lost because of this exact mistake).

You don't want to be contained (because TvT contains are the nastiest and hardest things to bust), but you also don't want to badly position your army and get beat up.

+ Show Spoiler [III. Drawing Lines aka. "I Want…] +
There is so much to teach and learn about the intricacies of breaking siege lines, good resources are youtube micro technique videos, StylishFPVODs general tips and tricks (on Othello!) video, and one-player micro-maps.

Positioning and drawing siege lines is key. Prior map analysis and some experience yields good Map Split areas and Control Spots (see 1.C. ). 'Defense' Placing your lines in strong defensive positions (high-ground ridges) while still granting good control of the map and expos is just as important as 'Offence' destroying the opponent's positions.

Basically, they're hard to break, you want to avoid a direct confrontation if you can, but when you've just got to go for it, vultures and SCVs charge in the front to absorb damage and tanks follow, usually with dropping stuff on their sieged tanks to both draw splash damage and generally kill them. Siege lines are often too mobile and dynamic to justify putting supply depots in them like in TvP, and mines die to scan. Turrets and goliaths however are key to deter wraith and dropship harass.

The sight range of sieged tanks is two units less than the attack range, meaning in standoffs, if your opponent doesn't have vision of your line, you can unsiege, advance, and siege up WITHIN RANGE without getting shot, and then proceed to get first shot off on their tanks. That's why floating buildings, and to a lesser extent, wraiths, are key to line-battles.

Sieged tanks kill other sieged tanks in 3 shots, un-upgraded. You can get a big advantage and reduce that to two shots if you get +2 mech attack, or if you do two pewpew's per tank with a wraith. With equivalent resource collection and army size, 'leap-frogging' tanks effectively and picking off a few of theirs at a time is a crucial pathway to gaining an advantage.

Attacking siege lines perpendicular to their general direction (the line is the vertical stroke in 'T', then attack like the top stroke), as this means your entire force will bear arms on small portions of their line at a time, compounding you numbers advantage.

Siege lines get thin when resources/army are diverted to hotly contested points, and a good player will spot a hole and break through it. Once they're sieged up, it is dissadvantageous and more costly to remedy the indent in your siege line, and that phalanx can protrude deeper and deeper into your territory eventually cutting off expansions if left unchecked.

+ Show Spoiler [IV. "Which Base do I taAAAaake?…] +
This should be planned relatively ahead of time with insight from prior map-analysis - see 1.C.
In regards to siege lines, you want to expand in an area that is relatively 'covered' or defended by your lines. I have a whole section on this, why is it here >>:|

+ Show Spoiler [V. Drops] +
aka. "You Can't Have Here" aka. "Imma Camp in Your Base, is that OK?"
Dropship-centred play is really exciting and dynamic mid-game style, because (see 1.A.VI. Dropship) making a really powerful mech army highly mobile allows for great swings of momentum in the shift of the game.

Big dropship armies can get warded away by wraiths, turrets and goliaths, but they're also a deterrent to moving in/unloading all your own dropships, because if the flying army trumps yours, you've over-exposed your neck and it can get chopped. However, if (checking with many scans) their dropship armies are completely out of position, once you've broken an entrenchment and secured it with siege and charon booster, now you own it, and it would cost them too much to engage the defence.

Both in air? Hope that you have more dropships, drop on each-other, in a good spot. Preferably unloading first to get more shots off.
The guy just unloaded (say, on your expo)? As long as all your dropships won't die in the process (cause their gols are busy massacring SCVs) go for it , but once they are sieged and ready for you, it's too late and you'll lose all your army. Recently we've seen players deliberately put mines in their own mineral fields (a huge no-no because their SCVs would all die, right?) as a deterrent, because once you have enough dropships, you're certainly going to scan your target to see if it's susceptible, and unloading on mines tends to hurt. It would be tricky to intentionally mine-drag onto their SCVs because there would be turrets around, and waiting around with your entire dropships force as you unload one or two at a time would get half your army shot down, and give your opponent time to respond with his fleet.

Dropships are very valuable, because if your opponent has twice as many as you (target-fired some of yours down), when your dropship armies engage, his will trump yours every time. Dropping on remote expansions is good, as long as you wouldn't loose too much stuff in the process. Sometimes, to break positions heavily fortified with turrets, we see players tanking turret-fire with a floating building, letting them bust the wall and unload on that position. It's really exciting, Mind has a (2008?) pimpest play for doing that on Faio (2?) in an (M?)SL (someone please confirm).

Beyond unloading onto siege lines to supplement your attempt to bomb and break it, large drops can really turn the tide of a battle depending on how good of a position they get to secure.

In Flash Fantasy Ground Zero, Flash is behind, picks up right about his entire army, artfully avoids Fantasy's turret defences (this is key, because if the fully-loaded dropships die, you just lost a LOT) and dumps everything behind Fanatasy's factories. It was really scary to watch because it looked like, all of a sudden, he was gonna win the game. He tried again a second time, got caught, and failed miserably. One of the main reason Leta looses to Flash on their recent match on Sniper Ridge is because he tries an ambitious drop, but doesn't push in far enough to secure Flash's ramp, so Flash is able to pull tanks back into his main base and force a stand-off, rather than a massacre. Leta just looses too many units.

The most key aggressive positions to secure with 'doom drops' if you will are controlling the ground entrance to the opponent's base (ramp), controlling their factory location (preventing production of reinforcements), camping their supply depot area (similar to PvT recalls, prevents them from building stuff because supply-block) and cliffing expansions (such as on LT or the natural OR 3rd on Othello), in that order (exceptions exist, but generally, you wanna kill the guy). These deal massive blows, because they can quickly become entrenched and really hard to remove (especially if you're funnelled through a ramp, into siege fire). Counter-dropping onto the attack is just about the only counter, but that won't work if their dropship count outnumbers yours (they'd mop up your inferior force), and if you wait too long their goliaths will be ready with anti-air. At which point, if you decide to try and engage, unload your dropships in the same base (so not down a ramp) but out of range of siege fire.

+ Show Spoiler [VI. Misc. Stuff to Keep in Mind] +
Remember, the cliché advice for TvT but it's true, gas is SO important, gas bases get preference, if your gas feels a bit low periodically check your refineries are saturated properly (you will suffer otherwise).

Gas income fluctuates (little, much, little) so vults and continual runbys oscillate in viability and importance.

Vaguely, Tanks>Gols>Wraiths>Tanks

Target-fire dropships, then tanks, especially when they're tittilating you with sweaty meat-shields.

Scan scan scan. In TvT you have a lot of bases, they should all have scans, and you should always be using that energy gratuitously to find weaknesses in their positions, check their tech, and keep tabs on their dropship fleet position.

A genaral rule of thumb for "do I make goliaths or tanks?", have the same number of factories-making-tanks as mining-gas-bases, and try to get a 1:1 ratio of goliaths to tanks (goliaths also build approximately twice as fast as tanks, so half as many goliath factories as addon ones). Err on the side of tanks, because too many goliaths get mopped up, apart from killing mass wraiths and battle-cruisers, whereas too many tanks get pewpew'ed to death by wraiths or dropped on (so still some goliaths needed).

Day[9] theorycrafts nukes in the midgame. [I'm just excited about this idea!]

Unlike TvP mine positioning, which is all spread out, TvT mines should really be clumped, because tanks and goliaths have a quick reaction time and can easily clear out minefields even without detection by stutter-stepping [note how this is such a basic form of micro - it wouldn't be any excitement to watch bar the possibility of their entire army getting blown up accidentally]. Casting Optical Flare (blind) on mines means they'll only trigger when the enemy is right on top of them, somewhat countering the effectiveness of un-detected mine-clearing. And then, scans, and the mines die \:



      C. Expansion and Map Analysis Theory
+ Show Spoiler [ Map Analysis Ideas] +
aka. "Where" to expand, control, guard, and watch. I'll apply each of these ideas to every map in turn (later on).

+ Show Spoiler [Death-choke"] +
If they control this position, you have already lost the game, because it'll be impossible to break out of. Prettymuch always 'just outside the natural', its the best place to contain, so you've got to try the hardest to prevent them from gaining this position.

+ Show Spoiler [Map Split Areas] +
Areas on the map where it is most optimal to draw your lines in the intent of splitting the map. Often coincides with 'watch spots'. Basically high-priority control spots. Beforehand, imagine drawing a big line on the minimap that splits the map in two, except try and draw a line that gives you an advantage!

+ Show Spoiler ['Watch Spot'] +
Areas it is absolutely crucial to keep an eye on, to catch or gain fore-warning of runbys, manoeuvrings and drops.

+ Show Spoiler ['Control Spot'] +
Areas that 'own' certain expos\parts of the map, if you entrench there, what part of the map do you cover\control. Holding these is key to protecting expansions.
+ Show Spoiler [Realtive Positions] +
For rotationally symmetric maps (all except Neo Ground Zero), close spawn positions mean one player's natural is closer to one half of the opponent's base than the other, dictating which expansions are easier or harder to secure.


Additionally, capturing these from your enemy grants you control to kill their expos, so they are important to defend well. In TvP, once you've managed to siege up outside their bridges on Fighting Spirit you've won the game you only need to send a few tanks to the ramps of the adjacent side expos, since you already control that area.

+ Show Spoiler ['Which expo to take?'] +
The most important question: does it have gas.
Then, what is its relative control spot, and do you own that area (do your tank lines cover and control your expos).
Finally consider how exposed to drops it is, and how difficult it would be to defend if it were harassed (far away, all the way at the back of your base).
Think where the map splits are gonna occur, see which expansions will be contested, and grab those positions first.

+ Show Spoiler [I. Why you Expand] +
To get money. You need dat gas for everything!

+ Show Spoiler [II. When you Expand] +
People expand quick nowadays, and by quick, I mean as soon as humanly possible. CC/Rax, and to a lesser extent rax/CC need more protection in the form of sim-city and bunker. Seriously, hire Sid Meier already!
One of THE MOST KEY ASPECTS of every single TvT is the timing for that 3rd gas. A very common low-level mistake is to wait far too long before getting that additional breath of vespene air.

Defender's advantage is so huge its feasible to trple expand off of only a handful of units, see Fantasy Skyhigh on Fortress for a really good TvT (on a great TvT map), with super solid expansion timings. Taking bases quickly means you'll be much stronger sooner, but spreads you rather thin 'now', and without excellent defense you can get quite punished (Flash Leta Sniper ridge good, Flash Bogus Sniper Ridge bad).

This means that in general, lots of bases are taken quickly, which makes planning and long-term strategy very key, because the slow early-game quickly goes crazy with an explosion of resources.

+ Show Spoiler [III. How You Expand] +
'fast' expands = sim city and bunker to prevent vulture damage and runbys. Is bunker always necessairy? Its to defend marines against vultures, so if there's no threat, you get that much more money. e.g. Fantasy proxied his factory against Flash on Ground Zero. He put it in his natural (as conservative as proxies get), but denying Flash absolute certainty of his factory count likely had a hand in Flash not being overly abusive and playing more safe, with a bunker.

Game sense, practice all come into play to gauge "how safe you are to expand", and often the pros undershoot their defenses, prefering agressive expansion trends.

+ Show Spoiler [IV. What to do When They've Exp…] +
When the opponent invests 400 minerals in another command centre, their army and agressive posibilities are limited. This isn't a strategy guide of all the different builds and what counters what. The two optioins are to stick on fewer bases and try and punish the fast expo (you could pre-empt it with forward positioning of [an early 8-]rax ), or just expand in response. Slower economy but faster tech has various options.

The same goes if they've secured a 3rd faster than you. You can try a timing attack (see Flash Leta Neo Sniper Ridge, the attack is timed perfectly, but just doesn't do enough damage), or expand yourself. Another key thing is to delay their expansion with mines and harassments (Fantasy does to Flash on Ground Zero), kinda like that TvP minigame of "snipe the probe before it builds the Nexus" (LOL Baby vs ACE on Jade, he's really fuckin good at the minigame, and then just dies).






2. The Maps and How They're Played

Applying "Map Analysis Ideas" individually.
+ Show Spoiler [A. Neo Ground Zero] +
Ballance adjustments nerfed Terran on Neo Ground Zero. No gas at top and bottom expos, sad. No cliffable naturals, sad. These are unfortunate for TvT.

The big mains are good for vulture drops, the top and bottom pairs of expos are close and can be captured/pressured with little effort.

Relatively open map with few real narrow passages, with unbuildable centre mean less solid lines (no Flash tourrreeeets). The map split lines are relatively wide, and have little terrain advantage to them.

It is still big enough for vultures to run around, top/bottom areas are tight enough to slightly interdict manoeuvring, but not too tight for too much of a defender's advantage.

[image loading]
My gosh I love Paint.net, there's no way I'd be able to do pictures this nice witout it. The giant peace signs are siege radius, with their centre (i.e. where the tank would be) shown. All features pointed out are all symmetric according to their respective locations around the map.
  • 1. See, that little ledge DOES cover the natural, but not behind the natural's minerals.
  • 2. Death-Choke, right up next to that mini cliff - this can't be sieged from the main, yet contains the natural entirely.
  • 3. Typical map split lines in the later game, players spawning on the right side.
  • 4. Map split lines if players spawn on right, but the top one gains an advantage and thus controls 3/4 the map. Note how weak orange's line is from the north because it is perpendicular.
  • 5.Control Spots for side expansions, if you can prevent your opponent from getting this close, you can safely take it (doesn't mean people don't take it anyways).
  • 6. Control spot for top\borrom pathways, note how it can also siege the expo from outside.
  • 7. Number one watch spot for drops, but gets shut down by turrets at the side expo.
  • 8. Key vulture runby and manoveuring spot. watch it, or pay.
  • 9. Secondary watch spot for drop harass.


+ Show Spoiler [B. Neo Electric Circuit] +
This is more of a macro map (inbase mineral only), which is effectively flat (no terrain elevation variation), meaning less air and more land battles.

There are a reasonable number of pathways, but they are thin enough to be eaisly controled by a few tanks. As longs as the most important watch point is guarded, runbys should be rare, and tank positioning and strategy will be key.

Realtive positions often cause the player furthest clockwise (with his back to the opponent) to prefer the 3rd gas (which is far away and more open to air and land harass) over their backdoor mineral only, and the other player to try and push in, capturing the 3rd gas between the two players.

[image loading]
Maybe I went a bit overboard with the annotations, its also hard to see on the brighter image. Numbers go in the direction of an 'N' starting top right (writing an 'N', but doing the strokes in reverse).
  • 1. Controlling this ledge of the opponent's main can be annoying, but it cliffs the empty part of the base, and can be shot down from a large area within the main.
  • 2.This is THE MOST IMPORTANT watch spot on the map![Again, rotationally symmetric]. Vultures will run by here before they get to the 3rd gas, and losing that base to vulture harass has cost many games on this map.
  • 3. Demonstrating the control spot for the 3rd gas, site of the standoff in the second part of 4.
    All siege lines drawn here are for players spawning on the bottom of the map.
  • 4. If the bottom right player manages to prevent his opponent from controlling the Death-Choke (10), the lines will look something like this. Since it is much closer to right's natural than left's, it is more feasible for right to push back the lines and gain control of the 4rd gas between the two players(4.5).
  • 5. The second most important watch spot to spot vultures before they kill everything.
  • 6. and 7. Watch spots for drops.
  • 8. The typical centre map split lines.
  • 9. Initially in symmetric positions (same as 4.5), our hero, teal (bottom right) can push the lines back enough to secure the top (9.33), and deal a killing blow to the expansions at the top left main by breaking through to the kill choke (9.66).
  • 10. The kill choke for the main base.


+ Show Spoiler [C. New Sniper Ridge] +
The most significant change to Sniper Ridge in its update was changing the layout of the ramp leading directly to the 3rd, adding more paths of attack and making controlling the ridges directly outside the natural less key (or end-all).

The map is very easy to split horizontally (or verticaly), with only 3 positions to control (two big ridges and the centre). Vulture mines are key to controling the ridges, but the real killer strategies are breaking the 3rd and containing from the high-ground, and major drops at the edge of the main.

Because the ridges have such an afinity with entrenched siege lines, they are key positions, which when properly controlled, can easily split the map into 1/4:3/4 (which is, uuuh, really bad for the 1/4 guy). Controling the death choke (high-ground outside natural, including the 3rd area) is the number one priority for both players in the early game.

[image loading]
Hmm showing the drop locations and including 3.5 would have been good for the preceeding ones too, oh well, learning process.
  • 1. THE DEATH CHOKE of containment nightmares. A line of sieged tanks is bad enough, but when they're all up on a ridge? Imposibruuuu!
    Lines are presuming both players spawn on left.
  • 2. Watch these 'principal ridges' plus the middle 4., and you see everything that moves ... on the ground.
  • 3. Orange busts down and camps teal's main expo, controlling the ridge and main's ramp (3.5), eventually pushing teal back so much that he can expand to the natural (3.9) = major trouble for teal.
  • 4. The middle is narrow, but still the only way to manoeuver around ridge-lines.
  • 5. Shows how to control the 3rd gas if your main is bottom right.
  • 6. The map split lines, with teal controlling his third's ridge, and orange protecting himself from getting death choked. Shows hot NOT to do teal's 3.5, buy reinforcing from the 3rd's ridge (6.5), and not letting the opponent gain control of "that half of the natural's ridge closest to the main". That can be defended from within the main (6.9).
  • 7. Shows orange's initial siege line at 6 is pretty good, because the tank's max range ends right at the bottom of the oposing ramp, nullifying the high-ground advantage.
  • 8. Watch this spot for drops on the 3rd and nat (even the main).
  • 9. This is that spot that people always try and mass drop to, to try and gain control of the main (and before that, sneaking in vulture drops).


+ Show Spoiler [D. Gladiator] +
It's all about Pizza!

This map feels open and wide, the bases are relatively far apart, and there are good manouvering options in the middle. Everything changes however when you take into account the triangular ridges, or pizza slices (refered to by their clock number).
Note: Who cut those slices..... Imba yo!

Every game we see mines on the ridges, to keep tabs on army movements and prevent super-fast flanks. The high-ground areas really help keep tanks alive because they're not visible AND get high-ground chance to miss bonus. It's important to engage DOWN a pizza slice because of high-ground miss chance, especially with vultures being effectively equivalent.

Most importantly, Wraiths are great when no one can see what their neighbour's got for pizza (for vision of opposing lines on slices)! Wraiths and vultures trump goliaths because of their mobility here.

The map is not so straightforward to split neatly, with unbuildable ridges, and the fact that air units can eaisly fly around the side. Planning and controlling the right slices will be key to victory.

[image loading]
  • 1. Shows the control spot for the player at top right to own the mineral only and the 3rd gas.
  • 2. Shows a tricky area. Lines here (same side as slice as 3rd's ramp) make the 3rd contested, and are just one ridge away from the kill choke (7).
  • 3. 3rd most important watch-spot.
  • 4. Second most important watch spot, for drops.
  • 5. A line pushed back on this side of the slice is as close you can get to that 3rd before you shut it down.
  • 6. Shows how to prevent 5 from shutting down the 3rd there. It should really be '5' as well.
  • 7. The death choke, please don't let them control that piece!
  • 8. The most important watch point is the middle, it alerts you to them trying to circumvent one of your lines, and vulture runbys. Note how it isn't AS curcial to actually control it, as long as you can ensure nothing sneaks through uncontested (spotting with mines is most common).
  • 9. Teal top right orange bottom left. This shows teal breaking orange's line and gradually pushing him back (9.33 --> 9.66) until he controls the kill choke of orange's main expansion. Note how on New Sniper Ridge there is no intermediary ridge to re-stabalize (just flat land), while on Gladiator there is.






3. The Players and Their Tendancies

      A. Flash
+ Show Spoiler [I. Cheeseyness / Rush] +
Flash CAN be aggressive early-game, but it's also very calculated, and he has very good judgement and sense 'when to pull out'. When he does go for early-confrontation, he's much more focused on maximizing his midgame advantage rather than risky play in the hopes of netting a marginal advantage at the beginning.

Flash does a forward 8-rax against Reality on Neo Electric Circuit, and gets a really good contain off. What's most important about his play however, is that he invests AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE into the contain, while still maximizing its efficiency. He then pulls back to a conservative, defensive position and re-consolidates, whereas other players would not yield over-extended positions as wisely and would likely get overly hurt in the process.

+ Show Spoiler [II. Style, Control and Strengths] +
Very conservative, controlled, management-focused style. His defence and response judgement is PHENOMENAL, so a simple trend is that he gets by with less than other people would, giving him an advantage later on. He's also fantastic at maximizing and compounding his little advantages, and converting them into a win.

His drop defense is very calm and calculated. At least until the midgame he consistently pulls his SCVs well, and follows dropships around with tanks, instead of building any static anti-air (and barely any mobile anti-air either).

Flash times his dropship production really well, to only come out when they're gonna be used. He times his +2 for the major battle that will decide the game e.g. securing the 3rd main on a 3 player map. Tnx Day[9] Daily #4

He likes dem valks. All of his recent games have shown a tendency to make valkyries. If he doesn't, he makes lots of wraiths, and when the other guys try and counter with Valkyeries, Flash has shown some impressive control, quickly eliminating the valkyries while barely taking any damage.

Flash manages the midgame very well. He has a very strong gasp of which positions are important, and secures them ahead of when they'll come into play. For example his positioning near Bogus's base in their match on Gladiator eaisly transitioned into a contain once more units came out. He has the plan at all times.

+ Show Spoiler [III. Weaknesses (Recent Lost Games and…] +
"I've gotta pre-empt and scare him!" can get misjudged. He relies on his game-sense and judgement A LOT, and he's ridiculously good at it, but sometimes he goes overboard. Valkyries? When he makes one, it's a waste and he loses out, two is a good number and effectively deters large wraith armies without costing too much, but when makes 7 v Fantasy, it's just dumb - they can't fight and supplement his tanks like wraiths, and they're a huge gas sink. Let's hope that he doesn't get too paranoid and stays reasonable with the valkyrie count!

Flash barely harasses. He'll go in for light contains, punish overly-abusive bases, but for the most part he seems more than happy to just take his half of the map and duke it out. He hardly ever uses vultures in the midgame for run-bys and drops, meaning his opponents are able to expand faster, somewhat uncontested.

Flash is fatally succeptible to vulture harass once they get behind his tank lines; its almost as if he doesn't care he's losing SCVs, that he'll win anyways. Fortunately, that's not always the case, and it could cost him a comeback.

Aiming towards the mid\late-game means he's most vulnerable before he has 3 basses and thick tank lines. Early COMITTED aggression (because he can totally block normal blows, but not the follow-up) is effective against him, and he sometimes skimps on defences, relying too much on his deterrence power and cutting corners a bit too much. This can be abused, let's see it!



      B. Fantasy
+ Show Spoiler [I. Cheeseyness / Rush] +
While his unit control is for the most part, an entire level above everyone else (watch Fanta Soo set 2 on Ground Zero, sheer micro), marine-based rushes just don't work that well compared to vulture drops.

That being said, I'm certain dear 'Oov and the Gang' will be concocting some crazy snipe builds, which the SKT bonjwa-training-machinery are notorious for *cough cough* see EVERY Fantasy OSL finals appearance.

+ Show Spoiler [II. Style, Control and Strengths] +
Gosh darn that vulture harass, it just never ends! One slip and not watching the key passages on the map and it's all over, especially on Neo Electric Circuit. Not only is Fantasy good at pumping vultures, he's great at consistently sneaking them around and using them for busting lines. Vulture drop openings are his favorite, and they worked well versus Flash last time

His line-busting is consistently good, and last time I checked is still the only person in the world who can make vultures Valkyries shoot out their ass (!).

Fantasy has strong harass, decent management, and excellent preparation skills.

+ Show Spoiler [III. Weaknesses (Recent Lost Games and…] +
Fantasy's drop defence and crisis management aren't as calculated and cool-headed, he's somewhat more prone to over-reacting thus putting himself even more behind then he could be.

Fantasy is still quite vulnerable to snipe play which is tailored to punish openings with few factory units into dropships, see Leta Fantasy on Ground Zero for the most stylish domination I've enjoyed in a long time (includes Firebats, need I say more?). In those sorts of situations, more often than not Fantasy doesn't have that aura of starpower that lets him claw his way back from a significant non-standard setback.






4. VOD Research and Battle Reports
The Matches I watched to research these maps, and Flash and Fantasy's play.


      A. Flash v Fantasy Ground Zero SPL Finals Battle Report
If you wath any games as preparation, make it this one, WATCH THIS GAME, greeeeat preview, this is the last time they met since January 2011 MSL Semis.
+ Show Spoiler [Flash v Fantasy Ground Zero SPL Finals] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzf4wYtftV8

Flash 14CC's, but makes a bunker because Fantasy puts his factory in his natural (hiding information from Flash so is uncertain, hence bunker) Both take CC's, while Flash does the same 2 facts with gols as v Leta, Fantasy opts for dropships and speed vults off 1 fact.
Both playing to their strengths, vulture drop harass and control, and later game management.

Flash's build counter's Fantasy's so bad it's not even funny. Not only can Flash ('s coaches) reliably predict what Fantasy will do, he can also tailor and execute the counter very well. However Fantasy continues the drops all the way until siege is finished, which helps delay Flash's tech, but otherwise gets shut down.

Flash moves out to contain Fantasy by sieging up in a line outside Fanta's natural. THIS IS THE DECIDING POINT IN THE GAME! Fantasy uses dropship mobility to circumvent Flash's contain and cut off the reinforcement line, splitting Flash's force in half (though Flash has more tanks). Now with reinforcements cut off, all Flash's contain tanks can do is get gradually whittled away, and Fantasy gets to half Flash's tank count AND kill Flash's stupidly unnecessary Valkyrie.

Flash opted to NOT go for a fast 3rd, and instead try some ill-thought risky contain, and Fantasy just gets the position, tech, and expo advantage through good strategic response.

At 15:30, Fanta plays BETTER. Both players try to take their 3rds, and both have relatively equivalent map position, but while Flash does NOTHING to try and prevent 11 o'clock, Fantasy sends vultures and mines and delays Flash's 3rd.

With that superior tank count from before Fantasy gets to bully Flash's lines, breaking their position, and allowing Fantasy's vultures a window to harass some more.

Flash has 7 valkyries, Fantasy has 4 wraiths, but they're more effective against tank lines, even with lulzy 8dp. Flash FINALLY harasses at the 19 minute mark, but the window for effectiveness is long gone. HOW DOES FANTASY DO IT?! Even more SCV's killed by marauding vultures.

Things are looking bad for Flash so he tries a drop to cliff Fantasy's natural, but it gets spotted and prevented (because Fantasy has map dominance, thus can put turrets wherever he wants). Again, those valkyries are fucking useless, they are incapable of supporting Flash's tanks, so the drop dies - and gets replaced with Fantasy killing lots of stuff with vultures at bottom right. Sound familiar?

Fantasy attacks with a huge army, both players macro like crazy, lots and lots of explosions as Fanta shrinks closer and closer to Flash's main. Cute play from Fanta, makes two vessels whose intermittent D-Matrices are surprisingly effective at elongating the lifespan of Fanta's tanks. Energy is free, Valks are not, take a hint pls.

Its unsure if Fanta is aware of Flash's impending doom drop, but in any case, he does a real good job of consistently finding places to massacre SCVs.

27minutes, Fanta moves in with D-matrix-supplemented army just as Flash picks up all his shit, evades all of Fantasy's turret defences, and plonks his ENTIRE ARMY behind Fanta's factories. All of a sudden it looks like the other guy's game. No Factoly, no suprai depoo means no army, but a big drop like that also means no base defences, so Fantasy busts down Flash's door while building mass starports at his new main. Flash did a really good job the first time of evading all of Fanta's tourrrrets, but by the second time, he gets caught and just loses all his stuff.

So then he has no army to defend bottom right, and is contained at his main natural, and, well, looses to mass wraith transition (LOL where were the Vlaks when you needed them?) This was great to watch live, now go watch set 7 if you could only choose one, though it was fantastic in general.

It's actually the only Flash TvT on this map so far.



Note\Rant: I watched at least one game on each map from each player, especially where they'd lost. Sadly I'm getting a little sick of watching so many 30minute TvTs back to back, its tiring. In an interview some terran player (maybe it was Sea) said it was difficult to practice for TvT because the games are so long and tiring, whereas you can suqeze a lot of ZvZs into a day cause they're mroe short (but that would also make it harder on the Zergs...?). Something something Protoss = EZ mode



      B. Flash Recent Games on the Maps

The Ground Zero SPL game counts (cause he lost) ^^;

+ Show Spoiler [Flash Reality Neo Electric Circuit] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Pn4tb0o9w

Flash goes forward rax, does a quaint bunker contain, then moves in and engages, killing SCV's and whatnot = under the right conditions Flash is prepared to be aggressive without significant threat to himself.

That aggression was only viable because no-ramp.

Flash gets unrealistically ahead with the contain, since he got mines with it, so Reality had to wait for Siege to take his natural. Flash does a good job of consistently dropping Vultures and denying Expos, while inching across the map.

Flash controls his tanks lines really well, while building 2 Vlaks to deter any Wraith bullying, and also prevents any vulture movements by strategically blocking them off at key spots (next to the backdoor entrance, and in the bridges to the middle). Proceeds to terminate all opposition.


+ Show Spoiler [Flash v Leta Sniper Ridge] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzf4wYtftV8

Flash forward rax Leta scouts it, proceeds to 14 CC. , leta CC after rax also, because nat so tight, sim city is a pretty fun game. KT probably hiered Sid Meier for a seminar. Both double fact after their free expansion. Vultures vultures vultures.
Leta attacks right as Flash finishes early 3rd and kills lots of stuff with Vultures, as Flash made the mistake of aggressively expanding AND moving out, while not keeping tabs on his opponent's position --> caught out of position.
Ridges outside of 3rds are key places to draw lines.
Leta does 4t4g drop in Flash's main but doesn't kill much since Flash reinforces, although he does knock out Flash's Vlakyrie, which is a dumb unit to build unless you have free bases like on this map (Leta 1 starport so no mass wraifu).
Flash gets over-cocky and tries to control the Ridge outside Leta's main, gets dropped and dies, 'nuff said.
Flash is better at Expanding, and as much as we wish, mass vultures and mines don't hold positions versus scans and tanks.. Somehow now Flash has 30 supply more than Leta and just takes the map \:

Flash owns 3/4 of the map and can afford to transition to wraiths sooner than Leta, so he kills stuff and Leta dies. TvT can be like that - it gives you ample time to reflect on why Leta got in this bad spot. My take is because he lost too much and did barely any damage in his big drop, without controlling Flash' ramp, so Flash was allowed to pull tanks back into his main and siege up, forcing a standoff instead of total destruction.


+ Show Spoiler [Bogus Flash New Sniper Ridge ro8] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ1rV26aC_0

Flash forward rax, both get gas and fact before both expanding. Flash is very calculated with his initial marine aggression, he does a bit of damage, but does not put himself in a susceptible position.

With the same expansion timings people continue to make vultures instead of bunkers/marines.

The ramp down separate from the ridge makes controlling your ridge less end-all, because stuff can sneak behind.

Flash has a tendency to skimp out on early-game defence in favour of tech. He often errs on the side of slightly too little because it gives and advantage in the midgame, so it is key to punish his greediness. That's risky though, because if you over-invest in hurting him, and you don't do enough, you're helping him by putting yourself more behind.

3 tank and a few gols is ALL you need to secure the 3rd, quite quickly too.

Early-game worker harass defence? Flash tends to under-invest in dedicating resources to defending, and rather relies on his reaction time and response to keep him safe (relies on pulling his SCVs and wraiths to counter dropship harass, rather than a few turrets).

The fast 3rd can be easily broken with some tanks and vultures, as long as their defender's backup is withdrawn (say, defending drops in the main). Once the opponent controls your 3rd ridge, it's a huge pain in the butt, because it's a really good defensive position that also exerts a lot of control over the enemy's position. Just a little bit further and you control the opponent's natural ridge, which is game over.

Flash does NOT have a tendency to do early/midgame vulture drops to try and disrupt the opponent's economy, which means you are safer to take free bases behind your siege lines as they're less likely to be harassed.

He just gets starved, dropped, and squeezed to death.


+ Show Spoiler [Bogus Flash Gladiator ro8] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4RbLjN66ic&feature=player_embedded#!

Flash is comfortable 1rax expanding while Bogs gets factory before expand, so flash bunkers.

Bogus plonks mines outside Flash's nat, while Flash builds up a vulture force from an equal number of 3 factories. It's important to engage DOWN a pizza slice because of high-ground miss chance, especially with vultures being effectively equivalent.

Bogus manages to do the same abuse he does in game one, of attacking with a lot of vultures right before tanks come out (keeps making vultures and attacks during Flash's transition period to tanks), delaying his own tanks, tech, and academy, but killing some SCVs.

This is a really key point in the game. Flash know he has more tanks because he switched to them earlier, so he goes and sieges up on the far side of slice #10 (at 10 o-clock). It is conservative and out of range of Bogus, but still forces Bogus to be careful and scared, because now Flash is just one slice away from controlling Bogus' natural. In a little bit, Flash also takes slice #6, and now Bogus is confined to 1/4 of the map. WOW

Still no goliaths, wraiths and many vultures take priority. Bogus does a vulture drop in the man, Flash has NO antiair, but instead fends it off by following the dropship with tanks.

Lines drawn on adjacent pizza slices, Flash has Bogus kept to his 1/4th of the map, and Bogus tries to bust down Flash's south line, but gets denied by vulture reinforcements.

Bogus drops Flash's 3rd, but Flash calmly pulls his SCVs and kills\pewpews the drop to death (2 starports building wraiths).

As the game goes on Flash's lines get more and more dominant, but Bogus manages to bust through the north and denies a wraith>Tank assault with a pair of goliaths.

Flash falls back to the Pizza slice at 1 o'clock, so that the map is neatly split in half, and double expands to bottom right. Bogus does a nice move of manoeuvring through the centre, circumventing Flash's southern line and getting dangerously close to Flash's expansions.

Bogus also manages to push back Flash's northern Pizza line by one, yet try as he does to block the 7 wraiths with 3 valkyries, they get killed by very good wraith control, and now Flash has an anti-tank airforce with air dominance, letting him wail away at Bogus' tanks uncontested.

Marauding wraiths make short work of unprotected tanks, thinning Bogus' lines and letting them get bust. Bogus tries again to hard-counter wraiths with valkyries, but Flash micros his wraiths impressively, and eradicates Bogus' air presence.

This is an interesting point about Flash's play. He's floating 2.6k minerals, is 50 supply ahead, yet moves in and attacks Bogus's bottom expansion with unsieged tanks. He really hates vultures doesn't he? He was likely trying to not max out, and devote more supply to tanks and wraiths…

Bogus Expands all along the left side of the map and causes some carnage with vultures at Flash's bottom expansions, but Flash's wraith force is so large now it busts down any anti-air in its path and kills everything.

Bogus gets the perfect situation and catches al of Flash's wraiths with some goliaths and Valkyries, but Flash just kills everything and replenishes his wraith force instantly.

Flash is still susceptible to vulture harass that runs right into his base, but it is immaterial as his wraith force crushes everything, and Bogus is forced to tap out.




      C. Fantasy Recent Games on the Maps

I got tired, bored, and burnt out from too much TvT, so I didn't write them up, but I did watch both Fantasy Sea on Sniper Ridge games, versus Mind on Ground Zero and versus Leta on the same map.
+ Show Spoiler [SNIPE: Leta Wraiths + Firebats > F…] +
Watch Leta rape Fantasy harder than I've seen anyone do in a LONG time

You really can't excuse not blocking behind the minerals with the academy. Really good preparation by Leta though, was great to watch.


+ Show Spoiler [ Classic Fantasy on Neo Electric Circuit] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HhW1Nl0mzQ&feature=player_embedded#at=317

Both go rax gas expo, Fantasy slightly ahead. A Classic wraith goes pewpew but beyond that, nothing too exciting happens in the beginning. Fantasy contains with mines, which eventually get cleared by some tanks.

Their armies grow, and Fantasy tries to break through the back of Classic's base, to no avail. Because of their relative positions, Fantasy is forced to take is his backdoor mineral only, while Classic is left with the sorry choice of getting another gas expo.

Classic doesn't see Fantasy's vulture force snake around the side of the map, and looses all the SCVs at his 3rd because of it.

Not only is Fantasy good at making vultures, he's also realy good at controlling them, that and busting down tank lines when he needs to.

They build stuff, they kill stuff, they expand, Fantasy is consistently 30 supply ahead. We get some funny valk v valk battles, but beyond that no dropships means less than optimal excitement levels. When Classic tries, he gets sniped by tons of wraiths, and then proceeds to lose control of the top of the map.

Fantasy kills all of Classic's tanks with wraiths, and continues to vulture harass his SCVs for the short remainder of the game.


+ Show Spoiler [Classic Fantasy New Sniper Ridge] +
Classic rax expo sim-city, Fanta fact expo. Fanta sets up a few mines, but both of Classic's valiant marines are sent to their deaths to reveal them.

A lone squad of 4 goliaths decide to usurp Classic's typically dull strategy, and commandeer a dropship to harass Fantasy's expansions. They are intercepted by two more dropships under Classic's command, sent to bging them back to the front of Fantasy's base, where, disoriented by this unfathomably uncharacteristic play by Classic, Fantasy had pulled back all his tanks to defend, thus had nothing preventing Classic from sieging up on the ridge outside Fanta's natural. Fascinating.

Once Classic secures that positoin, try as he may Fantasy can't do anything, ljust like any other normal human being in that bad of a position.


+ Show Spoiler [Hiya Fantasy Gladiator A Year Ago] +
Hiya goes middle 8-rax, Fantasy opens rax gas fact.

With really good Marine SCV control he holds it off completely. Hiya tries to expand, but with his rax lifted he has no mariens and Fantasy counter-attacks and rolls him.
Pretty mediocre game.


+ Show Spoiler [Gladiator has NO TvTs on it] +
The only other TvT VOD on this map is Sea v Mind from last year, so to get a more full idea of how it plays TvT I BR'd this:

Mind goes fact expo, Sea makes CC before rax and gas, so he makes a bunker to ward off scary vultures. I remember (maybe falsely) that Mind used to be a REALLY good TvT player back in the GOM MSLs.

Mind gets vultures and mines up outside Sea's nat because his factory tech was earlier. Sea sieges up on HIS pizza slice outside his natural, and Mind has to re-position to try and draw an effective line.

Mind goes for many vultures, which works well, positioning the mines on the pizza slices makes them more effective than normal. Sea responds with vultures of his own. Those high-ground areas really help keep tanks alive because they're not visible AND get high-ground chance to miss bonus.

The counter-clockwise gas expo is the good one to take, as Mind demonstrates. He only makes a few tanks, and opts for defence with vultures and techs to wraiths.

With more factories than mind, sea is confident in his map control and takes his mineral only (3rd gas delayed by a mine).

Mind was able to freely secure his 3rd gas, much faster than Sea, then he moved out with more tanks and some wraiths, busting down Sea's tank line and winning the game. Wraiths are good when no one can see what their neighbour got for pizza.



The only other thing to watch for research is BigFile Semifinals.... :

I am crazy. I am actually watching the entire series.

+ Show Spoiler [1. Polaris Rhapsody] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m71uQWQE1F8&feature=player_embedded
Both go fact expo into two facts. Many factories and vultures from both sides.

Flash expands off 3 tanks, Fantasy moves in to try and harass ... and it turns out Flash is defended perfectly \:

Flash's army gets bust and is forced to retreat from his mineral only, while Fantasy builds a 3rd with gas. Instead of staying back comfortably Fantasy decides to move in without his vultures, and loses all the tanks he had in advantage over Flash.

'Flash was broken', its not impossible, just that once you do it, he's really darn good at getting back at you, so its necessary to ballance gaining more ground, and securing a position well. That is, don't get excited and over-extend.

Fantasy is good at being agressive and attacking Flash where he's weak. Only that Flash has great defense and quickly makes enemy attacks cost inefficient.

Fantasy somehow manages to kill an insane number of SCVs with great multi-pronged vulture harass (4 locations within 1 minute). He breaks Flash's line, expands everywhere, and rolls Flash's poor recession-ridden forces.

My word he practiced for this match! This is just looking more and more over, Flash controls 1/4th of the map, Fantasy owns everything else. He's ahead on army, ahead on economy and ahead on dropship count.

Fantasy tried to control both sides of the map but didn't have enough forces on the ground to secure it in time (because his whole army is flying around) so Flash busts through the left - only to be swiftly cleanded up by a dropship army 3 times the size of his own.

Fantasy has a stronger army, but Flash is hunkered down and looks completely umpervious. Fantasy attacks Flash's left expansion, but somehow Flash's macro does not sync with his economy dissadvantage, and Flash busts out more units than ever and cleans Fantasy up.

Flash has a tank with 22 kills, its a defensive tank. It killed two vultures with 13 and 14 SCV kills respectively.

Fantasy attacks one of Flash's expos with 9 tanks and gols versus 4 tanks, outcome? Fantasy 2 tanks, Flash 3 minus SCVs. Dat Defense
Vessels give such huge sight radii.

Flash also manages to bust like Fantasy couldn't and as the map runs dry somehow Flash makes a comeback and wins.

You see how certain I was Fantasy had won there, but no, Flash's jaw-dropping defense, less flashy but continually applied pressure always killing Fantasy's double gas expo, and massive line-busts dragged him back to victollly.


+ Show Spoiler [2. Triathlon] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WSW7O2ycJdE
Fantasy 14cc's in his nat, while Flash rax expands to his backdoor natural. Two port versus two port follows.

The first unit to die apart from the scouting SCVs is a marine, 8 minutes into the game (oh and Flash expanded earlier, while he was perfectly safe, so now he's slightly ahead). The opposing marine is the second casualty, dying exactly a minute later.

Both (mirror) armies stalk eachother on parallel sides of the middle, but while Fantasy takes one of the side expos Flash just goes ahead and expands to the main (on 3player maps, guy with the main usually wins).

Their armies finally collide, but since Fantasy only had two Valkyries (one gets sniped quickly) Flash's wraiths don't melt. Fantasy has those side gas expos, but they only ammount to half the gas Flash gets from having taken the main.

Flash does a nice move of saccrificing all his wraiths in order to snipe all of Fantasy's dropships, now Flash has 4 to 0.

Flash drops Fanta's backdoor expo and takes it out, Fantasy responds by dropping Flash's natural ramp and taking out all the factories (which are quickly replaced at the 3rd main base, because Flash got that one just about for free).

Since Flash made all that effort to kill those initial dropships, he had a far greater dropship number than Fantasy, so when their air-fleets collided Flash cleaned it all up. Fantasy wastes his replenished dropship army trying to attack Flash's new main, and looses everything without doing any damage. Sometimes its better to be more conservative.

Hmmm, Flash was allowed to expand for free (x4), rebuild his main, constantly beat Fantasy in small unnecessairy engagements, and thus make a massive army and crush the rest of what Fantasy had.

Again, it looked like a won game for Fantasy, but he managed to consistently waste dropship armies, loose expos, and over-extend in excitment, all allowing Flash to make a good comeback.


+ Show Spoiler [3. Fighting Spirit] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoXgjeOAhbk&feature=player_embedded#!
Wow I can't believe these games are already two years old \; Ya kiddin, ANOTHER hour-long TvT VOD? The things I go through, ugh.

They both spawn on the right, Fantasy below. Immediately this means there's the possibility that Flash tries to siege Fantasy's gas, cause bottom right's gas is the most exposed to tank fire (in the older versions of the map you could actually tank it from the tip of the bridges, so unfair).

Fantasy gets fact before rax, Flash, the inverse (plus complimentary bunker). Fantasy was clearly expecting some early agression, with rax first and also checking the middle for proxies, lulz 14cc.

Vultures are cool, but on lameass boring standard maps with overly tight chokes, they do nothing.

Flash goes two-port but Fanta knows its coming. The most Flash's early agression (including CUTTING SCVs) did was to kill Fantasy's barracks, which means nothing as he already has 4 facts and one more expansion than Flash. Haha Fantasy expands AGAIN before his 3rd is even done.

There's a reason Flash doesn't deviate from his set style all that often, because he's not that good at it and its less reliable than his play-with-eyes-closed-precision.

I mean yeah, Flash does net some good SCV kills, but that doesn't excuse the fact he's two bases behind. Well once he went back to playing reasonably, he quickly equalized the base count.

But its too late, Fantasy siezes his army advantage and busts Flash's right 3rd. Flash resonds by dropping Fanta's left main expo, but while it does some damage, it doesn't succeed in killing enough and gets cleaned up.

Flash tries to expand to top left, but again, his army is too small and the few forces that he does dedicate to defending are mowed down by Fantasy's tanks.

Fantasy denies that base again, Flash tries to drop, but Fantasy's got a turret line all accross the middle of the map which really soften up the dropships, and when they do unload, their contents evaporate (although, at significant loss of SCV life).

Oh no, not agiain. This game is all but over, but the VOD is not even half done yet :E It must be Flash, again! Ooooh that culprit, refusing to loose the game faster.

Well against the odds Flash manages to secure the top left main. They trade blows at the left middle expansion and top left main respectively, but only loose units, not position. Not until Flash macros well and re-drops on the middle left expansion. At this point he has much better SCV saturation.

Wow, I'm really impressed with the valor and strength of these casters, I'm pooped already, and they're getting more excited than ever!

Flash does a good job of target-firing down Fantasy's dropships, and now has four times as many. Advantageous!

At the half-an-hour mark The map is split, and Fantasy is desperately trying to secure the centre. A large attack comes in from Flash, but Fantasy's army is not to be trifled with, and pushes it back.

Flash finally manages to bust through the centre right before Fantasy's battlecruisers become too numerous to prevent it. But the race to tech and transition into the endgame is slowly being lost by Flash, as his opponent now has 6 BCs out on the map. Yamato is free, tanks are not. Fantasy learnt this in Progamer-Class one day. He also learnt never to get between Coach Choi and bananas.....

While currently behind, Flash adopts the mentality "Well how much worse can it get" and persists in refusing in conforming to the 'giant flying battlestation' norm running rampant throughout the Terran colonies nowadays.

Hey stubbornness, take a Yamato TO THE FACE *pow*

Only when there are two mining bases left on the map does Flash start producing wraiths en masse. I guess he's just playing for the 'even later game', which includes busting Fantasy's natural, with a large ground army lead, not bad.

Here come the wraiths! Fortunately Fantasy has many Valkyries ...... which are summairly ignored out of position, leading to him losing his entire Battlecruiser fleet \:

Unfortunately the only one looking like he wants to give up is me. Nevermind, once Flash realizes wraiths die about as eaisly as Hydras, and that he has no more army, he gg's.

Flash did a really stupid opening, which Fantasy blocked and countered perfectly, including expanding like crazy and getting a good lead. For some reason oov still doesn't seem too happy, which I guess makes sense, because instead of straight-up winning the game, Fantasy proceeded to lose his own expos and not do enough damage with his attacks. He also managed to loose all his BCs - that's a lot of Commodores to replace...
Looking at the VOD, hmmm, this eSports stadium looks strangely familiar ..... o wait, it's the MBC studio. Ouch, that hurt, right *there. *tear*


+ Show Spoiler [4. Odd Eye 3] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTP6s8QGVNQ&feature=player_embedded#!
EDIT: I am so tired stupid, I spent the whole game thinking the players were switched! No wonder Flash's attacks were so strong, and Fantasy's early timing (before 3 bases) failed like it did :S Switch every name when you read ^^

Aww I wish it was Ultimatium, that's a fun TvT map. Not that I remember any TvTs played on it, but any map that forces Dropships makes exciting...

Flash checks for proxies before 14CCing (he's probably burning up inside at the inefficiency), while Fantasy rax expands. By not scouting in time, he makes an utterly unnecessary bunker, but beyond that they're just about equal.

Flash jumps up to 4 facts while Fanta stays on 3. Flash puts some mines around and takes his thrid, but this may be pretty bad against Fantasy's goliath+tank army, supplemented by 5 facts of vulture production. Yep, Fantasy does a really good timing attack on Flash's 3rd, except sadly his own siege upgrade isn't quite finished, so he wisely pulls back from the expansion until it finishes.

If Flash can hold onto this 3rd for long enough, his economy advantage will pull him way ahead, but Fantasy executes a large attack and nearly breaks it. Nearly means no, but his own 3rd gas is almost up. And what is this? When behind, double expand? Works well if you kill their entire tank force with mines.

But Flashs' earlier 3rd is paying off, he pushes Fantasy back all the way to his third, killing many tanks in the process. Unfortunately, having also secured the mineral only, Flash's contstant agression with a superior army edge Fantasy out of the finals in Shanghai.


+ Show Spoiler [5. Polaris Rhapsody] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivtPIJKs98&feature=player_embedded

I KNEW this series had 5 matches.
Flash Rax cc Fanta rax gas cc 2fact. Fanta manages to scout 2 starports and immediately starts goliath production. What he doesn't anticipate is a Flash Thug squad of marines an' vultures that sneak into his natural, while Flash walls off his own (preventing vulture runby).

Flash's 3 wraiths do a surprising ammount of damage, and Flash exploits the fact Fantasy over-invested in anti-air by making a large tank vulture force and sieging up outside Fantasy's natural.

Now it's Flash's turn to lay down the hurt with vulture worlker harass, and while Fantasy's 3rd mineral only was up first, he's lost so many SCVs that now that Flash's own mineral-only is finished, he's certainly ahead.

It's like they've switched bodies, and I made sure to check I wasn't was under a false impression of who's who. No, that really IS Flash vulture dropping in the main, killing stuff, and simultaneously breaking Fantasy's mineral only.

Another vulture drop adds to the pain count, and Flash is happy to expand to half the map while building up a neat wraith force.

Fantasy tries to move across the map, but his tanks get pushed back to Valhalla by DA PEWPEW, homie.

In a desperate attempt to rid the MSL of his participation Fantasy busts forwards, trying frantically to gain some ground and gas expansions.

While Flash is in the business of reinforcing his top-right expansion with dropships, he sneakily expands to the only reamaining base, double gas, on the polar (and latteral) opposite of the map.

Unfortunately when Flash diecides to 'go kill him', Fantasy has no dropships to quickly ferry power rangers (and tanks) to the rescue, and loses his only mining gas expansion.

With a surprising number of tanks Fantasy makes a last push to the south, but overall Flash's defence is just so good, Fantasy starves, and goes home dissapointed.







Please, if there's any important titbit I've missed out or mis-explained, please put it in writing.




Day[9] theorycrafts nukes in the midgame {: I AM SO HYPED. THIs is how we do writeups in Brood War General!!1
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 01:34:41
July 15 2012 23:25 GMT
#2
Ugh, 10300 words later and half the youtube videos SITLL don't imbed! >:
I have yet to rewatch their last bo5

Predictions:
+ Show Spoiler [1. Neo Ground Zero] +
We haven't really seen how the new version of this map plays TvT, and it is possibly quite different since the top\bottom pair of expansions are now mineral only, meaning more emphasis on the side bases.

I think Fantasy will do a very good job of harassing Flash's expos with constant vulture drops. He may also prepare a snipe build tailored to cripple Flash before the midgame, but, seeing that this is a bo5, Flash is likely to try exactly the same thing on the first map. Overall, Flash is better at coming back from dire situations than Fantasy, although Fantasy has excellent early-game unit control.

Lets say Flash takes it.


+ Show Spoiler [2. Neo Electric Circuit] +
This is a macro map that is all about positioning and siege lines. If Flash does even just an elementary job of guarding those watch spots outside the temples and near the naturals, he should really be fine versus catastrophic Fantasy vulture harass. That being said, if there's anyone who'll be able to sneak them through, it'll be Fantasy.

This map's Kill Choke is the least 'entrenched' then the rest of them, so early-game contains are less likely than long, strung out management style games. As it stands, Flash is favored if it gets to that point in the game just because it suits his style much better. We may see Fantasy do something cute with the back ridge, but in any case, this will be Flash's game to loose.
In that case then I predict he will do some sort of forward 8-rax to try and damage Fantasy's economy and contain him, but Fantasy holds it off magnificently.

Let's assume Fantasy's prepared build doesn't work out, and Flash takes it 2-0


+ Show Spoiler [3 New Sniper Ridge] +
Contrary to the previous map, the result on New Sniper Ridge can very easily be decided by the enemy gaining control of the high-ground outside the nat.

While both players have struggled somewhat on this map, I think Fantasy will have a better time, preferably if he spawns adjacent counterclockwise to Flash, as that is the best relative position for constantly harassing Flash with drops at the edge of the main.

Flash may try some harassment, but he's nowhere as good at it as Fantasy. I think Fantasy, being down 0-2, will do a timing attack where he drops a scary army in the main (and he will be able to drop them because no one builds turrets) Flash is forced to retreat some forces to defend, Fantasy busts Flash's underprotected 3rd and contains him to death. Oh and Flash makes too many Valkyries and they're useless versus ground troops.
Fantasy does a midgame timing attack for the win, 1-2


+ Show Spoiler [4. Gladiator] +
This map is great for harass, but also for tank lines, and also for mass wraiths. It will be about who can strike the best balance between those three, and who can gain air superiority. Whoever controls the skies will win.

What I'm hoping will happen is Flash gets over-confident with a few Valkyries and Fantasy owns them with his amazing wraith micro. We're likely gonna see a forward 8-rax on this map (probably also in set 2) from whoever is behind at this point in the series, but be especially keen to watch Fantasy make really good decisions and a comeback if he is on the receiving end.

This is the best TvT map in this pool in my opinion because the ridges are so key and dynamic, it will be great to watch. Expect Fantasy's vulture harass to really shine on this large map (running through the middle) which you can't split as easily as say, Neo Ground Zero or New Sniper Ridge.

I think Flash will be over-confident in his Valkyries (which is really dumb because wraiths are so much more important here) and Fantasy will do a good job of Punishing Flash's unguarded expos.
Fantasy equalizes 2-2 !


+ Show Spoiler [5. Neo Ground Zero] +
The final game, after Fantasy comes back down 0-2. We know that Fantasy isn't afraid to do a cheezy build in the last set of a huge series, and we know that Flash will just stick to his strengths to defend it, so who wins, the dagger (not quite Bisu but still) or the impenetrable Armour?!

If we haven't seen them already, Science Vessels w00t w00t, good map control and harass from Fantasy (especially drop harass), and Flash positioning his siege lines in positions that are just slightly bad, and Fantasy exploits it to gain a tank-count advantage.

Either that or Flash does something we don't expect him to do, like a really strong midgame attack and contains Fantasy to death, but as I said, in the last set he's not likely to play unconventional.

I predict Fantasy wins 3-2!


And yes, Fantasy and T1 both happen to be my favorites, so I'm all the more excited!

Vessels give such huge sight radii.
Yamato is free, tanks are not
In at least one game Flash will do some pre-3-base timing attack and it'll put him behind for the rest of the game




EDIT:
Even More Player Analyysis:
+ Show Spoiler [Fickle Fantasy] +
If there were two little kids on a farm, and they had to catch and kill a chicken for dinner, Fantasy would catch the chicken pretty well, but not want to kill it , and eventually strangle it to death after some internal conflict.
Flash would grab the thing and break it's neck, albeit rather slowly cause he's a little kid without the proper arm strength.

Its an analogy trying to express how I explain all the games that just slip out of Fantasy's hands. There are many instances where Fantasy has an advantage and gets excited. What's key is that he doesn't hunker down with turrets in a good spot and reinforce, he doesn't stay back and make it absolutely impossible for the opponent to take that expo.

He gets mushy, doesn't set up super-tight positions, and over-extends himself, nullifying the advantage he'd earned. Its almost as if he's not as analytic and withdrawn from the game to make 'the best choice' over what seems like a pretty good idea at the time.

Even when he's ahead, he doesn't compound his advantages very well, and can wind up loosing expos and doing stupid drops. But he's more grown and experienced now.


+ Show Spoiler [Kill Dropships Flash!] +
Watching their previous series, 3/4 of the games featuring dropships tended towards Flash's favour because he did one thing: he consistently target-fired Fantasy's dropships, even going so far as sacrificing all his wraiths to hunt them down. This is intentional, and really powerful, because it plays on one of Fantasy's weaknesses, which is being impulsive with small dropship engagements.

If Flash has many more dropships than Fantasy, when those armies collide, Flash kills everything including the dropships, putting his count further and further ahead! Fantasy also has a tendency to do some pretty stupid attacks and lose lots of his dropships because he isn't conservative enough, meaning he can't harass or defend his own expos adequately.


+ Show Spoiler [Play Defense Flash] +
There's a reason Flash doesn't deviate from his set style all that often, because he's not that good at it and, its less reliable than his play-with-eyes-closed-precision. Please NEVER cut SCVs Flash, it indicates playing too unreliably, and you'll just get behind. When Flash does early timing attacks, they aren't timed or executed quite as well, but at least he knows when to pull out before over-committing. That being said sometimes his opponents take advantage of his greedy style and play abusive, in which case he should totally punish them. Sadly though, that's often after he's done some dumb timing attack that just put him behind.

Once Flash secures 3bases he's nearly unstoppable.


+ Show Spoiler [Play Offense Fanta] +
Fantasy is good at being agressive and attacking Flash where he's weak. There are so many times during the midgame where Flash has nothing guarding his expos against vultures, those should ALWAYS be exploited (but most need dropshipuuu, so dun lose 'em). Only that Flash has great defense and quickly makes enemy attacks cost inefficient, say during all-out attacks on lightly-fortified expansions.

When behind, double expand? That's a notable way Flash plays, and it works, except when they're agressive, in which case he dies.


In conclusion, in one game (#1), Flash had a tank with 22 kills, it was a defensive tank. It killed two vultures with 13 and 14 SCV kills respectively. That's the difference between their styles and skills (harass v defense).

The real question then will be to see "how well they can play on the other guy's court", that is, how well can Flash keep up the pressure and harass, and how well can Fantasy stay cool, collected, and not over-extend himself. It's gonna be really interesting to watch.
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
MageKirby
Profile Joined July 2009
United States535 Posts
July 15 2012 23:34 GMT
#3
very nice write up o-o!
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
July 15 2012 23:34 GMT
#4
Nice guide, will read if I'm bored making time till 6am to watch this
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
July 15 2012 23:35 GMT
#5
Of course is TvT fun, doubt anyone would want to disagree.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
July 15 2012 23:44 GMT
#6
Don't you mean BigFile MSL semifinals?

Researching that should be fun. What an awesome series, especially that first game.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 15 2012 23:47 GMT
#7
Terran vs Terran might be my favorite matchup.

Kick back, get some booze, and slag away what seems to be an eternity of explosions.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
July 16 2012 00:52 GMT
#8
Awesome post Reading it now
Jaedong.
chaosTheory_14cc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1270 Posts
July 16 2012 00:57 GMT
#9
Very nice guide, TvT is always awesome to watch.
KamMoye
Profile Joined December 2010
United States721 Posts
July 16 2012 01:10 GMT
#10
Good stuff.
Koenji
Profile Joined January 2010
Australia41 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 01:16:52
July 16 2012 01:16 GMT
#11
TvT is generally my least favourite matchup, but you know what, there will always be an exception for FvF.

Double excitement multiplier because it's FvF in a Bo5.

Triple excitement multiplier because it's for a shot for the last BW OSL.

I AM PUMPED

* Thanks OP! What a read
Gave up TV only to get obsessed with SC
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
July 16 2012 01:18 GMT
#12
so awesome. now i wanna watch some tvt!
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
July 16 2012 01:33 GMT
#13
Most important thing about TvT is to watch that minimap Long TvT always comes down to who is able to control just one more expo. If control is split perfectly and the map is 50/50, that's when you see BC vs BC madness :D

I wonder if Fantasy will be trying to use d matrix tactics.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
July 16 2012 01:38 GMT
#14
awesome writeup
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
July 16 2012 01:39 GMT
#15
damn there is alot of writing for this post, good shyt
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
July 16 2012 01:47 GMT
#16
Bookmarking
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
July 16 2012 01:50 GMT
#17
srs works, good write up
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9497 Posts
July 16 2012 02:02 GMT
#18
Awesome!

I seriously love good TvT game. Even as a Protoss player, it's my favorite mirror matchup when played right. I'm so psyched for Flash vs Fantasy!
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
peragon
Profile Joined October 2011
United States15 Posts
July 16 2012 02:25 GMT
#19
I'm new to Brood War. Where and when can I watch this?
Byun: Terran's Future, Today.
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3820 Posts
July 16 2012 02:27 GMT
#20
Fuck me, that's a lot of work. Good job!
metzninja
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand626 Posts
July 16 2012 02:43 GMT
#21
Amazing, thanks for this write up

Some stats:

1) Neither player has lost a TvT series in OSL.
2) Flash has lost two individual TvT series: against Leta in Lost Saga MSL and against ForGG in Arena MSL.
3) Fantasy has lost two individual TvT series: during GOM Season 2 and Bigfile MSL, both against Flash.
4) Flash has a healthy 13-6 advantage over Fantasy, however it's been almost two years since their meeting in Bigfile and they've only met twice since then, going 1-1. Fantasy won the crucial encounter in the SPL finals.

HYPE
MeteorRise
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada611 Posts
July 16 2012 02:43 GMT
#22
Lovely write up, I can see how much effort you put into this. Can't wait to watch fantasy win 3-2 :p
Elegance, in all things.
eX-Corgh
Profile Joined October 2007
Russian Federation386 Posts
July 16 2012 02:56 GMT
#23
On July 16 2012 11:25 peragon wrote:
I'm new to Brood War. Where and when can I watch this?


On E-sportsTV youtube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV
Never give cheese to the Gorilla ^^
chaosfreak11
Profile Joined April 2011
Singapore367 Posts
July 16 2012 03:12 GMT
#24
Best matchup ever!
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
July 16 2012 03:14 GMT
#25
Hoooooly crap. So much work put into this amazing OP.

TvT is like chess in a way, so many little things you can do and strategy+tactics. Slow but solid etc~
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
July 16 2012 03:22 GMT
#26
I'm so excited for Flash vs Fantasy. Can it top Jangbi vs Zero? Doubt it but still, yaaaaaaaay.
Retvrn to Forvms
ellerina
Profile Joined April 2010
Philippines452 Posts
July 16 2012 03:41 GMT
#27
On July 16 2012 11:56 eX-Corgh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 11:25 peragon wrote:
I'm new to Brood War. Where and when can I watch this?


On E-sportsTV youtube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV


To add to that, it will be tomorrow at 1930 KST. The streams, including ESportsTV, should pop up in the sidebar once its' started. Sayle might also be live with english commentary.
Still round the corner there may wait , A new road or a secret gate /And though I oft have passed them by, A day will come at last when I /Shall take the hidden paths that run/West of the Moon, East of the Sun
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
July 16 2012 03:45 GMT
#28
TvT is more like Go then chess btw. Great thread, wish they met in the final thought.
OtoshimonoU
Profile Joined December 2011
United States509 Posts
July 16 2012 03:46 GMT
#29
Can we make this the lR thread?
God Young ho
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
July 16 2012 03:49 GMT
#30
On July 16 2012 12:46 OtoshimonoU wrote:
Can we make this the lR thread?


we can add it to hype when ever the LR gets posted.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
July 16 2012 03:54 GMT
#31
On July 16 2012 12:46 OtoshimonoU wrote:
Can we make this the lR thread?

LR service by zona and Hyde, just be patient.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
July 16 2012 03:55 GMT
#32
Epic writeup. And its not even the finals.
BlindKill
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Australia1508 Posts
July 16 2012 03:58 GMT
#33
love the player tendencies section
“Life is a grindstone, and whether it grinds a man down or polishes him up depends on the stuff he's made of.”
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
July 16 2012 04:01 GMT
#34
About fantasy, he really seems to be favouring science vessels in the matchup for d-matrix Useage like both his last games against Flash and Mind in the previous season of proleague.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
hai2u
Profile Joined September 2011
688 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 04:20:51
July 16 2012 04:20 GMT
#35
the 2 best BW players currently! gona be an epic series.
Motivate
Profile Joined June 2011
2860 Posts
July 16 2012 05:09 GMT
#36
the LR sure is taking a long time to go up

it would be funny if someone snipes it with a crap post
Abort Retry Fail
Profile Joined December 2011
2636 Posts
July 16 2012 06:03 GMT
#37
Nice read! Got me so pumped for tomorrow!
BSOD
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
July 16 2012 07:09 GMT
#38
TvT allmost allways boring when its not quality

Top TvT however.. so rare that nothing else compares
In the woods, there lurks..
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
July 16 2012 07:45 GMT
#39
On July 16 2012 16:09 Iplaythings wrote:
TvT allmost allways boring when its not quality

Top TvT however.. so rare that nothing else compares

Absolutely. TvT can be awesome. As in literally inspiring AWE.
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
July 16 2012 07:57 GMT
#40
{: Well it was written so that people would get more enjoyment from the games. I can't believe it, I didn't even incorporate predictions! eidtting...
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
nadafanboy42
Profile Joined August 2009
Netherlands209 Posts
July 16 2012 08:21 GMT
#41
Hats off! Amazing write-up!
NaDa/Jaedong/Liquid-Fanboy
sc4k
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom5454 Posts
July 16 2012 08:26 GMT
#42
This OP is insanely good, reminds me of being on TL a few years back. So many good OPs and posters...and there used to be final edit and power rank...ah the good old days. Thanks for that great read
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
July 16 2012 08:40 GMT
#43
Map analysis aka tanks can hit here here and here.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
July 16 2012 09:27 GMT
#44
Fantasy vs Flash is like one of the best MUs ever no need to hype it up .
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
July 16 2012 09:43 GMT
#45
On July 16 2012 18:27 raga4ka wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash is like one of the best MUs ever no need to hype it up .


Agree. Not only does the star power of the players make this a must-watch series, but also despite the fact that TvT may be one of the more boring matchups of BW, it is IMO still heads and shoulders above any matchup in SC2 so there's really no reason to not watch. You don't need to sell me on this, I'm already a fan.
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
July 16 2012 09:56 GMT
#46
TvT between the two best terran players of our time always delivers fireworks. I dont think ive ever watched a FvF that didnt dissapoint,
Epithet
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States840 Posts
July 16 2012 11:02 GMT
#47
This is a gem. Insanely good OP Thanks so much for your contribution. Hoping for good games from both Flash and Fantasy tomorrow! BW forever :D
YellOw, Reach, & Nal_Ra Hwaiting!!
Agrajag
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden38 Posts
July 16 2012 11:08 GMT
#48
On July 16 2012 10:16 Koenji wrote:
TvT is generally my least favourite matchup, but you know what, there will always be an exception for FvF.

Double excitement multiplier because it's FvF in a Bo5.

Triple excitement multiplier because it's for a shot for the last BW OSL.

I AM PUMPED

* Thanks OP! What a read

This is exactly how I feel. So sad that it's the last BW OSL, but at least these final 6-10 games are looking to be filled with awesome, regardless of who ends up winning.

Thanks for the hype! Can't wait until tomorrow!
Sayle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom3685 Posts
July 16 2012 11:45 GMT
#49
I'm going to read this then talk about all the ideas during my cast tomorrow and pretend I'm smart. kkkkkk
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
July 16 2012 12:37 GMT
#50
On July 16 2012 20:45 Sayle wrote:
I'm going to read this then talk about all the ideas during my cast tomorrow and pretend I'm smart. kkkkkk

Happy that you wont have to learn ZvZ now ?
In the woods, there lurks..
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 12:38:41
July 16 2012 12:37 GMT
#51
I can't watch this, even if I stay awake far longer after my normal sleeping hour. BARGH
Also one of the best OP I saw on this forum for awhile
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
flashimba
Profile Joined May 2011
225 Posts
July 16 2012 12:39 GMT
#52
sleep early
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
July 16 2012 12:47 GMT
#53
sick OP
Zest fanboy.
Kyrillion
Profile Joined August 2011
Russian Federation748 Posts
July 16 2012 12:51 GMT
#54
On July 16 2012 18:56 4Servy wrote:
TvT between the two best terran players of our time always delivers fireworks. I dont think ive ever watched a FvF that didnt dissapoint,


Surely you meant did disappoint ?
If you seek well, you shall find.
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
July 16 2012 13:48 GMT
#55
so PUMPED for FvF
Hoping it goes to game 5, and the total series length ~3 hours. FOR EPIC
[TLMS] REBOOT
nosliw
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2716 Posts
July 16 2012 14:40 GMT
#56
wow so much work went into this! Thanks!
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
July 17 2012 01:38 GMT
#57
Check out the final bit of player analysis in post #2, and the battle reports for their last bo5 if you're adventurous. Apart from that, make some fan art, and JOIN THE TEAMSPEAK BW TOURNEY CHANNEL TO CHAT AND WATCH IT LIVE

Oh, and thanks for all the nice feedback. Yes, I am heavily inspired by the quality and caliber of TL writing back when the number of active users hovered nicely around 750, and I also want to demystify the TvT matchup so all foreigners wouldn't avoid it like the plague (:
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13004 Posts
July 17 2012 02:11 GMT
#58
Not a huge fan of TvT, but at this level of play it's always good regardless of the MU.

Both will have huge motivation to win so one can only hope it's on the level as last week's semi.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
July 17 2012 02:12 GMT
#59
You are either a really fast writer or you were really confident in FF

Nice writeup! Can't wait for tonight!
Jaedong :3
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
July 17 2012 02:14 GMT
#60
damn monster write up O_O nice work man
I used to think TvTs were boring to watch, but goddamn there have been some ones that completely turned my opinion around the last year or so. Flash vs Fantasy in PL finals being one big one
jaedong imba
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18385 Posts
July 17 2012 02:58 GMT
#61
Leta vs Fantasy was just crazy
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1285 Posts
July 17 2012 04:23 GMT
#62
The way I enjoy TvTs is looking purely at the strategical point of view, and at high level play, the decisions players make and the margins they are 'gambling' through are so slim. Particularly with Flash, he has excellent calculation skills in speed and accuracy, such as knowing exactly how many units he needs to defend, but because there is always an element of 'execution accuracy' in BW, a small error can lead to insta-death.

Watching comebacks from Flash is always jaw-dropping. Particularly with Flash vs Turn on Fortress and the FvF on Polaris as mentioned.

The boring parts are BC transitions TBH. Where it's a solid 10 minutes of watching starport lights then playing cat and mouse with slow ass units. IMO, the increased Wraith usage has led to higher spectator value.
sup
Reclusive
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States88 Posts
July 17 2012 04:53 GMT
#63
Someone should teach me TVT.
What does Happiness mean to you?
Rlentless
Profile Joined January 2011
Hong Kong322 Posts
July 17 2012 05:23 GMT
#64
On July 17 2012 13:53 Reclusive wrote:
Someone should teach me TVT.


The thing is TvT is highly variable. Some (and probably pretty important) skills are developed on your own and can only be developed by yourself.
NicoakaD
Profile Joined December 2011
Argentina25 Posts
July 17 2012 07:13 GMT
#65
What TS version are you in guys?
Follow me in twitter! www.twitter.com/NicoakaD
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
July 17 2012 09:44 GMT
#66
^ err, TS 3? I just woke up :S

TL Server, BW Toruney channel
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
July 17 2012 09:46 GMT
#67
On July 17 2012 18:44 bITt.mAN wrote:
^ err, TS 3? I just woke up :S

TL Server, BW Toruney channel


you haven't used TS in a while have you, TL moved to a new server there is no BW tourneys channel anymore T_T
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Menzies
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand129 Posts
July 17 2012 10:21 GMT
#68
Great job, thanks for the awesome read!!
Never ever ever give up. Impossible is nothing
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