Nothing has been confirmed, except that Reality and Turn were caught playing for amateur players in an amateur tournament. Connections to betting sites, payment, etc have not been confirmed.
Original post:
Basically, Reality and Turn were caught subsituting amateur players in the BnW(hosted by Brain Clan) final. However, it was found that there was a betting company behind the whole situation, and the money involved was more than ten million Korean Woon. Reality and Turn already admited that crime. Samsung Khan had checked player's bank account, and there was no strange transactions. However, Brain Clan said that they had evidence of the underground exchange and they hinted that this was not the first time. The whole situation is stil under investigation, but as a BW fan I am greatly disappointed. Source: wfbrood, PGR, plu
Speculation from 1a2a3a:
On October 25 2011 04:55 supernovamaniac wrote: then again, 1a2a3a had a funny history with GanziTerran (fish 2000 ladder until it was sold to the alledged "broker")
I was going to write up a translation of wtf happened, but I did not for the sake of spreading false rumors.
Some background (as far as I heard from 1a2a3a): GanziTerran and 1a2a3a weren't very close; infact 1a2a3a hated GanziTerran. 1a2a3a thought that Ganzi was Reality so he goes onto West, Reality says: If I'm Ganzi I'm going to quit Progaming.
But later Ganzi and 1a2a3a became close after doing some 2v2s. Ganzi joins team NeOx (Scan's current Korean clan, along with 1a2a3a). In their match against some other team, Ganzi plays amazingly well but then loses the match, apologizes to the team, and tries to leave. HOWEVER, the backstory was that Ganzi had a request from the opposing team join the clan after the clanwar. So seems like Ganzi lost on purpose in order to quit NeOx, few negotiations behind the scene, and Ganzi stays on NeOx.
Then again, Ganzi just shows up and disappears in the scene few times. There were some events in the middle (which lead to Reality and TurN confirming something for GanziTerran) which lead to BrainSlayeR (admin of BrainClan) to suspect something wrong here. Nonetheless, in Brain ClanWar finals, NeOx sends out GanziTerran thinking that its TurN. TURNS OUT, GanziTerran at the time was used by a SKT T1 B-Team player, so clan NeOx gets DQ'd and loses their championship (this happened week ago). After finding this out, 1a2a3a flips out, BrainSlayeR gives his 'evidence' of the "SO CALLED MATCH FIXING/PLAYING UNDER SOMEONE ELSE'S ACCOUNT FOR MONEY" to 1a2a3a, 1a2a3a makes it public.
Problem got out of hand as 1a2a3a just started bashing Khan and those two players who were involved; don't quite remember where the 'broker' for match fixing came into play, but I've read somewhere that current owner of the ID of GanziTerran is related to some match fixing website (they said that Ganzi said himself (whoever he is) on bnet, haven't seen the evidence yet).
[below KIM GA EUL section is what I read on pgr21, not by 1a2a3a] Kim Ga Eul shows up on pgr21 saying that they aren't aware of any 'scandal' at the moment and said that they've confirmed themselves that there weren't any problems with the two players (after Khan's coach talked with Reality and TurN). (However, I couldn't verify that it was actual Kim Ga Eul, need to do some IP checking)
Day later, 1a2a3a says that the players have been punished, but we don't know on what basis or for what reason.
Sums up the situation so far.
(I'll edit/post more detailed version later, as I have to read again to make sure I got the stuff down right)
[again from 1a2a3a] GanziTerran: 2000 Fish player. Seems like Reality had the ID for a long time, when a person known for smurfing comes up and says that he wants to buy the ID from GanziTerran for a high price. "Reality" (if he was the original owner). The person who bought the ID then paid few progamers and made them use the ID GanziTerran in order to hide that a non-progamer owned the ID. Then, when GanziTerran was being used by a SKT T1 B-Team gamer in the finals of BrainClanWars final, BrainClan caught them in action
Disclaimer: RUMORS ARE RUMORS. UNLESS THERE'S OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT BY TEAMS AND/OR OTHER VISIBLE SIGNS THAT WE CAN 100% VERIFY, THE 'SCANDAL' ITSELF IS A RUMOR.
Has it been confirmed?from what I know its just rumors, I even heard that January is might be sueing Brainclan and 1a2a3a. We also have no source or anything for this.
Aww crap. Last time this happened broodwar took a heavy blow. At least this incident had a much smaller scope, but it's still it's bad. Hopefully most fans don't lose hope.
On October 25 2011 02:26 Aeres wrote: Son of a bitch... not again...
I know, bloody hell when I saw the title I double face palmed. But let's just see where this goes, it's still being investigated. Dammit Turn and Reality, why...
For the love of god i really hope this is just a bullshit rumour. I can't believe their stupidity if they really pulled this sort of shit off. Even if its an amateur tournament there is no excuse or reason to be cheating in any shape or form.
Why can't people just learn lessons from other peoples' fuck ups? Do they WANT to end up like savior or the others that were banned? ugh.
EDIT:
Took a peek around fomos to see if there would be any articles on this, but nothing so far. But apparently Hiya's dad just passed away... T___T lots of sad news all around.
On October 25 2011 02:29 Merfyn wrote: Dammit man! Cant you see your killing E-sports ((((((
Heh, I'd agree that its unfortunate, but it isn't killing E-Sports, I mean any competitive scene has abusers and what not, they just cause a lot of commotion but don't really kill the sport, kind of like steroids in real sports.
Won't nearly cause nearly the uproar that happened last time, however, in it's current state, it may be detrimental, especially to the two players. Their careers are over, but hopefully they won't have to bring others down with them.
Just for some technicalities-- is it called match fixing if it's illegally substituting players? Or is there some other term to describe this phenomenon?
man, hope this isn't true, this doesn't bode well for scbw, or esports in general, you never want this kind of news to creep up as it takes away from the integrity of all competition.
On October 25 2011 02:40 m3rciless wrote: Ugh. This shits pretty guaranteed though. The money in BW for non Tier 1 players is so sad given how hard they work.
I think this is a huge problem in bw as the top tiers dominate for a long time. If true, what a sad story.
On October 25 2011 02:35 XsebT wrote: Oh fuck no. I really hope this isn't the case! This seems to be purely based on accusations by brainclan, so I'm not gonna rage quite yet.
According to the news on PLU, the players themselves have admitted to the substituition, but they have denied accepting any monetary bribes. They've received 100 "도토리", which is some form of brainclan currency.
Now it's just a matter of whether Brainclan has sufficient evidence pointing to actual bank transactions.
On October 25 2011 02:46 BroodWarHD wrote: Damn.. I hope Savior's hand isnt involved again
Actually it would probably be better if he was involved. It would put people's hate on a single person they already hate, rather than a suspicion that all the players now have forgotten about the past and are becoming untrustworthy.
I doubt he has anything to do with this though. There's no way he has this much guts to do something like this.
They don't have a link to a Korean source though...
Maybe because there isn't one. That's why I'm finding it a little doubtful. Neither fomos nor DES have anything about it, and it's hard to believe a Chinese site would know about these things faster than the two largest Korean esports sites.
Then again, it's 3AM here; there might be something in the morning. God I hope not
On October 25 2011 02:46 BroodWarHD wrote: Damn.. I hope Savior's hand isnt involved again
Actually it would probably be better if he was involved. It would put people's hate on a single person they already hate, rather than a suspicion that all the players now have forgotten about the past and are becoming untrustworthy.
I doubt he has anything to do with this though. There's no way he has this much guts to do something like this.
Would be pretty ironic now. isn't he studying criminal law or something?
On October 25 2011 02:53 sixfour wrote: pretty awful/misleading thread title, this smurfing is in no way comparable to the savior incident
Yeah, but they might be smurfing as amateurs to get paid by a betting organization, so it is kind of a big deal.
not saying it isn't important, just not at all comparable. in football/soccer, when a team fields an ineligible player they usually get a points deduction, and/or are required to forfeit/replay the game dependent on the competition. nothing really happens to the player, might get suspended for a short time or something. if a team/player's actually match fixing the player'd be banned for life and/or the team expelled.
or, to put it the severity of these into visual form, ripping off a perfectly good image from the people that bring us the friday night smoke:
Heh. I knew about this for awhile, just didn't post here because pretty much NOTHING is confirmed right now. Though the two did admit smurfing, but they say there is no money involved. It's all just accusations from 철구, a BW Afreeca broadcast junkie. If he doesn't back it up with evidence then he's gonna get sued by Samsung Khan. But then again, there were some phone calls going through during the broadcast. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Samsung Khan trying to settle things quietly. It's still pretty dissappointing that these two are taking their integrity as pro players lightly. If this turns out to be a real deal then BW is screwed.
On October 25 2011 02:53 sixfour wrote: pretty awful/misleading thread title, this smurfing is in no way comparable to the savior incident
Yeah, but they might be smurfing as amateurs to get paid by a betting organization, so it is kind of a big deal.
not saying it isn't important, just not at all comparable. in football/soccer, when a team fields an ineligible player they usually get a points deduction, and/or are required to forfeit/replay the game dependent on the competition. nothing really happens to the player, might get suspended for a short time or something. if a team/player's actually match fixing the player'd be banned for life and/or the team expelled.
or, to put it the severity of these into visual form, ripping off a perfectly good image from the people that bring us the friday night smoke:
yea but the fact is that there was a fair bit of money involved in this....
I was hoping to see a new Proleague schedule, not this. Such miserable news, lately. I hope this turns out to be false. Reality... his amazing series against Jaedong.
On October 25 2011 02:53 sixfour wrote: pretty awful/misleading thread title, this smurfing is in no way comparable to the savior incident
Yeah, but they might be smurfing as amateurs to get paid by a betting organization, so it is kind of a big deal.
not saying it isn't important, just not at all comparable. in football/soccer, when a team fields an ineligible player they usually get a points deduction, and/or are required to forfeit/replay the game dependent on the competition. nothing really happens to the player, might get suspended for a short time or something. if a team/player's actually match fixing the player'd be banned for life and/or the team expelled.
or, to put it the severity of these into visual form, ripping off a perfectly good image from the people that bring us the friday night smoke:
Yeah, but it's not fielding an ineligible player. That would be like Samsung fielding Great a while ago when he hasn't received his full pro status yet, where the whole thing blew over without much of an incident.
This is with money involved. So, while still not as big as the whole Savior incident, it's not just a bump in the road either. The Chinese article I read from Plu stated that police/authority confirmed that there's some sort of gambling involved in these games, and that Brainclan is accusing Reality and Turn of accepting bribes to play in them.
Is this really that bad? I mean if I understand correctly this has nothing to do with Pro Starcraft right? They might get in trouble with the laws,but I don`t think they`ll take away their licenses ?
What the funk??? No not this again. Why don't players learn their lessons??? Plus it's not like they're underpaid as well. So why always resort to something like this???
You know what they should do? Pay rookies a better goddamn wage. This just reinforces the fact that lower level players on the teams just aren't treated well enough. If they were paid a little better, this would never have happened.
:\ I hope this isn't true. If it is though I don't think it's as big as Savior since it's not affecting the integrity of the professional scene. Unfortunately this might be really bad for Reality and TurN though.
What exactly does substituting amateur players mean? Were the games played online as opposed to in person?
On October 25 2011 03:23 ImbaTosS wrote: You know what they should do? Pay rookies a better goddamn wage. This just reinforces the fact that lower level players on the teams just aren't treated well enough. If they were paid a little better, this would never have happened.
Are you kidding? You're making excuses for them T_T. Why would you possibly play them more if they're worth zero value to the company sponsoring? It's not like they aren't already getting free rent.
On October 25 2011 03:23 ImbaTosS wrote: You know what they should do? Pay rookies a better goddamn wage. This just reinforces the fact that lower level players on the teams just aren't treated well enough. If they were paid a little better, this would never have happened.
As much as I feel sympathy for low level players, that's really not how you run a business, or a team. It SHOULD be "Play better and we'll pay you more," and not "Pay us more or we'll resort to cheating." Look at Stats, he put out good results and pulled through when it mattered in the SPL finals and his salary was doubled. I'm sure even rookies can earn their raises with good play; I imagine Sun got some boost in salary after pulling his weight in proleague and all-killing Oz in the STX masters cup finals.
at least they aren't involved in actual match fixing or betting (supposedly, as of now), and only fake substitution (which is a much much less serious case, i believe it to be anw)
Is Broodwar betting mostly underground, or is it legitimate bookmakers that take bets? I ask because as of now in SC2 betting scandals would not be (much of) an issue, due to bookmakers having very strict limits on how much you can bet, and the amounts you possibly could win is just way too small to be worth even considering, unless its a large scale operation with many players working together.
I'm also quite a bit confused about the part with "a betting company behind the whole situation". I have quite a bit of knowledge of how the betting world works, and it sounds really strange if a legitimate bookmaker (a registered company) would actually involve themselves in such affairs. If that was the case I imagine that it would actually be really easy to spot by them offering a clear market leading odds on the fixed matches, trying to sway the bettors to heavily weigh the collected stakes on one side.
A normal bookmaker doesn't actually play "against" their players, they try to provide and tweak the odds so that the collected stakes are spread as evenly as possible over every possible outcome of a single match. What they make in profit is then the "juice" they shave off the odds, giving them a guaranteed profit regardless of outcome of the match. For example a match where both players have 50% chance to win, instead of offering even odds on both sides they will offer something like 1,90 decimal odds on each side, giving them a 5% profit of the total stake regardless of result (given exactly even stake on each outcome).
If this was an underground bookmaker (not a registered company), I think it's much more likely they could be involved in foul play. However my guess would be that the betting company that is talked about here is more a betting syndicate, which would be more like an organized crime organization than a company. However that is just purely speculation from my side, based on experience with match fixing in bigger sports.
On October 25 2011 03:23 ImbaTosS wrote: You know what they should do? Pay rookies a better goddamn wage. This just reinforces the fact that lower level players on the teams just aren't treated well enough. If they were paid a little better, this would never have happened.
As much as I feel sympathy for low level players, that's really not how you run a business, or a team. It SHOULD be "Play better and we'll pay you more," and not "Pay us more or we'll resort to cheating." Look at Stats, he put out good results and pulled through when it mattered in the SPL finals and his salary was doubled. I'm sure even rookies can earn their raises with good play; I imagine Sun got some boost in salary after pulling his weight in proleague and all-killing Oz in the STX masters cup finals.
I'm pretty certain Alex Rodriguez makes more money than 50% of the Major Leagues. Let's not get started in the rookie leagues.
This is how sports are done.
Edit : totally misread the post, so just consider what I'm saying in accordance please.
This just shows how there isn't any real money in BW unless you're on the very top level. cmon, risking whole career, being involved in a scam etc and money involved is just about 10k$ :/
On October 25 2011 03:36 MVBasten wrote: Is Broodwar betting mostly underground, or is it legitimate bookmakers that take bets?
i could bet osl/proleague playoff games on pinnacle. i wouldn't, as i can get better lines p2p. i doubt that any legit bookmaker would actually offer lines on the competition in question in the OP
Not this again....I want rainbows and smiles and all that shit...not this cloud hovering BW, making it look grim
I hope its false...and either way Im sad for Reality and Turn...either because they're being accused of such without any reason for it or for being guilty of this brutal stupidity. It makes me sad either way =/
This is not nearly as bad as the match fixing scandal though, if it is even true. It could be that the players were just contacted by the guy they smurfed for and that they asked them to smurf in return for money, of which the players didn't know the source.
It would still be a shitty thing to do but let's not overreact just yet
On October 25 2011 03:36 konadora wrote: wait, reality and turn?
FUCK. seriously....
at least they aren't involved in actual match fixing or betting (supposedly, as of now), and only fake substitution (which is a much much less serious case, i believe it to be anw)
If they accepted money it's as bad match fixing because from that point they could be blackmailed into throwing their own games. (edit: well, almost as bad)
If it was just smurfing then it's a relatively small mistake and they should get away with a warning or short suspension.
Well... god fucking damnit. The last thing BW needs -_-' Luckily we still have good news from KesPA I guess, regarding new teams etc ^_^ keeping positive~~
Wait a second. A few matches on BrainClan server and we're talking about more than ten million wons in bets? And we're accusing Samsung Khan rookies for smurfing and calling a match fixing incident vol.2? Am I the only person who gets logic errors?
1- 10s of millions of wons on BrainClan matches? I wouldn't bet a single won on some shit like that. 2- What happens if 2 random progamers smurf into those tournaments? Is there a fucking rule that disallows progamers playing on BrainClan? Well, there is none on West Starleague, I don't think there is a rule for this in Brain either.
Suspend those guys for 2 matches tops and we got ourselves a deal.
On October 25 2011 03:05 JiPrime wrote: Heh. I knew about this for awhile, just didn't post here because pretty much NOTHING is confirmed right now. Though the two did admit smurfing, but they say there is no money involved. It's all just accusations from 철구, a BW Afreeca broadcast junkie. If he doesn't back it up with evidence then he's gonna get sued by Samsung Khan. But then again, there were some phone calls going through during the broadcast. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Samsung Khan trying to settle things quietly. It's still pretty dissappointing that these two are taking their integrity as pro players lightly. If this turns out to be a real deal then BW is screwed.
CheolGu is 1a2a3a[fOu], ex-STX Soul progamer by the way.
On October 25 2011 04:18 Djagulingu wrote: Wait a second. A few matches on BrainClan server and we're talking about more than ten million wons in bets? And we're accusing Samsung Khan rookies for smurfing and calling a match fixing incident vol.2? Am I the only person who gets logic errors?
1- 10s of millions of wons on BrainClan matches? I wouldn't bet a single won on some shit like that. 2- What happens if 2 random progamers smurf into those tournaments? Is there a fucking rule that disallows progamers playing on BrainClan? Well, there is none on West Starleague, I don't think there is a rule for this in Brain either.
Suspend those guys for 2 matches tops and we got ourselves a deal.
On October 25 2011 03:05 JiPrime wrote: Heh. I knew about this for awhile, just didn't post here because pretty much NOTHING is confirmed right now. Though the two did admit smurfing, but they say there is no money involved. It's all just accusations from 철구, a BW Afreeca broadcast junkie. If he doesn't back it up with evidence then he's gonna get sued by Samsung Khan. But then again, there were some phone calls going through during the broadcast. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Samsung Khan trying to settle things quietly. It's still pretty dissappointing that these two are taking their integrity as pro players lightly. If this turns out to be a real deal then BW is screwed.
CheolGu is 1a2a3a[fOu], ex-STX Soul progamer by the way.
Woah, hold up....1a2a3a...as in the Terror? the screaming asian man who makes such lovely videos? This the same dude?
Very little has been confirmed 100%, except the fact that Turn and Reality played in the place of some amateur players. Please don't jump to conclusions yet.
On October 25 2011 04:18 Djagulingu wrote: Wait a second. A few matches on BrainClan server and we're talking about more than ten million wons in bets? And we're accusing Samsung Khan rookies for smurfing and calling a match fixing incident vol.2? Am I the only person who gets logic errors?
1- 10s of millions of wons on BrainClan matches? I wouldn't bet a single won on some shit like that. 2- What happens if 2 random progamers smurf into those tournaments? Is there a fucking rule that disallows progamers playing on BrainClan? Well, there is none on West Starleague, I don't think there is a rule for this in Brain either.
Suspend those guys for 2 matches tops and we got ourselves a deal.
On October 25 2011 03:05 JiPrime wrote: Heh. I knew about this for awhile, just didn't post here because pretty much NOTHING is confirmed right now. Though the two did admit smurfing, but they say there is no money involved. It's all just accusations from 철구, a BW Afreeca broadcast junkie. If he doesn't back it up with evidence then he's gonna get sued by Samsung Khan. But then again, there were some phone calls going through during the broadcast. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Samsung Khan trying to settle things quietly. It's still pretty dissappointing that these two are taking their integrity as pro players lightly. If this turns out to be a real deal then BW is screwed.
CheolGu is 1a2a3a[fOu], ex-STX Soul progamer by the way.
Woah, hold up....1a2a3a...as in the Terror? the screaming asian man who makes such lovely videos? This the same dude?
Yeap, the man himself. As you see here.
Btw I love when he writes '컨트롤' (Control) in chat, the part he drone drills (0.40).
Man this is so bad. If this is real, my favorite 2 rookies will get some punishment, if it's not, my favorite afreeca bangsong joki will get sued.
On October 25 2011 04:35 GARO wrote: Until the gambling connection is established, we shouldn't overreact to the whole 'ringing for amateurs' thing.
Agreed let's not overreact! Also, if it is revealed there is no connection to betting/fixing etc will the punishment be really harsh even though its an amateur tourney?
On October 25 2011 04:18 Djagulingu wrote: Wait a second. A few matches on BrainClan server and we're talking about more than ten million wons in bets? And we're accusing Samsung Khan rookies for smurfing and calling a match fixing incident vol.2? Am I the only person who gets logic errors?
1- 10s of millions of wons on BrainClan matches? I wouldn't bet a single won on some shit like that. 2- What happens if 2 random progamers smurf into those tournaments? Is there a fucking rule that disallows progamers playing on BrainClan? Well, there is none on West Starleague, I don't think there is a rule for this in Brain either.
Suspend those guys for 2 matches tops and we got ourselves a deal.
On October 25 2011 03:05 JiPrime wrote: Heh. I knew about this for awhile, just didn't post here because pretty much NOTHING is confirmed right now. Though the two did admit smurfing, but they say there is no money involved. It's all just accusations from 철구, a BW Afreeca broadcast junkie. If he doesn't back it up with evidence then he's gonna get sued by Samsung Khan. But then again, there were some phone calls going through during the broadcast. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Samsung Khan trying to settle things quietly. It's still pretty dissappointing that these two are taking their integrity as pro players lightly. If this turns out to be a real deal then BW is screwed.
CheolGu is 1a2a3a[fOu], ex-STX Soul progamer by the way.
Woah, hold up....1a2a3a...as in the Terror? the screaming asian man who makes such lovely videos? This the same dude?
then again, 1a2a3a had a funny history with GanziTerran (fish 2000 ladder until it was sold to the alledged "broker")
I was going to write up a translation of wtf happened, but I did not for the sake of spreading false rumors.
Some background (as far as I heard from 1a2a3a): GanziTerran and 1a2a3a weren't very close; infact 1a2a3a hated GanziTerran. 1a2a3a thought that Ganzi was Reality so he goes onto West, Reality says: If I'm Ganzi I'm going to quit Progaming.
But later Ganzi and 1a2a3a became close after doing some 2v2s. Ganzi joins team NeOx (Scan's current Korean clan, along with 1a2a3a). In their match against some other team, Ganzi plays amazingly well but then loses the match, apologizes to the team, and tries to leave. HOWEVER, the backstory was that Ganzi had a request from the opposing team join the clan after the clanwar. So seems like Ganzi lost on purpose in order to quit NeOx, few negotiations behind the scene, and Ganzi stays on NeOx.
Then again, Ganzi just shows up and disappears in the scene few times. There were some events in the middle (which lead to Reality and TurN confirming something for GanziTerran) which lead to BrainSlayeR (admin of BrainClan) to suspect something wrong here. Nonetheless, in Brain ClanWar finals, NeOx sends out GanziTerran thinking that its TurN. TURNS OUT, GanziTerran at the time was used by a SKT T1 B-Team player, so clan NeOx gets DQ'd and loses their championship (this happened week ago). After finding this out, 1a2a3a flips out, BrainSlayeR gives his 'evidence' of the "SO CALLED MATCH FIXING/PLAYING UNDER SOMEONE ELSE'S ACCOUNT FOR MONEY" to 1a2a3a, 1a2a3a makes it public.
Problem got out of hand as 1a2a3a just started bashing Khan and those two players who were involved; don't quite remember where the 'broker' for match fixing came into play, but I've read somewhere that current owner of the ID of GanziTerran is related to some match fixing website (they said that Ganzi said himself (whoever he is) on bnet, haven't seen the evidence yet).
[below KIM GA EUL section is what I read on pgr21, not by 1a2a3a] Kim Ga Eul shows up on pgr21 saying that they aren't aware of any 'scandal' at the moment and said that they've confirmed themselves that there weren't any problems with the two players (after Khan's coach talked with Reality and TurN). (However, I couldn't verify that it was actual Kim Ga Eul, need to do some IP checking)
Day later, 1a2a3a says that the players have been punished, but we don't know on what basis or for what reason.
Sums up the situation so far.
(I'll edit/post more detailed version later, as I have to read again to make sure I got the stuff down right)
[again from 1a2a3a] GanziTerran: 2000 Fish player. Seems like Reality had the ID for a long time, when a person known for smurfing comes up and says that he wants to buy the ID from GanziTerran for a high price. "Reality" (if he was the original owner). The person who bought the ID then paid few progamers and made them use the ID GanziTerran in order to hide that a non-progamer owned the ID. Then, when GanziTerran was being used by a SKT T1 B-Team gamer in the finals of BrainClanWars final, BrainClan caught them in action
Disclaimer: RUMORS ARE RUMORS. UNLESS THERE'S OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT BY TEAMS AND/OR OTHER VISIBLE SIGNS THAT WE CAN 100% VERIFY, THE 'SCANDAL' ITSELF IS A RUMOR.
This sounds pretty bad, hope its not true. At least it didn’t happen in professional games, even tough professional players supposedly were involved and there was money at stake.
The person who bought the ID then paid few progamers and made them use the ID GanziTerran in order to hide that a non-progamer owned the ID
sorry, the post is kind of convoluted. 'few progamers' is Reality and Turn? Or Reality the original owner and the identities of the smurfs is still unknown?
On October 25 2011 05:57 neobowman wrote: Oh wow. Glad it's not any high profile players this time.
Khan Terrans are super promising rookies, they're the high profile players of tomorrow
Hopefully this just ends up like the Hwasin-Calm matchfixing incident (overseas tourney) and just ends up as something they're shamed of, but doesn't really impact anything
wasn't there a thread about great posting mysterious messages on his cyworld a few months back talking about being felt like he was backstabbed, people being heartless etc that never really got cleared up? i can't find the thread right now but maybe it had something to do with this? ( then again that was such a long time ago the timeframe probably doesn't match up)
Brood War is finally stabilizing after a long fall, and was thus primed to start turning things around when the economy improved. This is literally the worst possible time for this shit.
man like i said in the "skill level is increasing thread.." the patterns here are eerily similar to what poker players are experiencing in online poker lol
You guys know that there are always a tonne of dumb rumours going around right? Just because it's translated from Korean doesn't make it reliable. This is so a 'who cares' kind of thing.
Whatever happens, whatever the truth is, we all lose here =(
I'll be doing some surfing right now to see what's up. *checked Fomos, DES, PlayXP, ThisIsGame, plus searched on Daum and Naver - and found no official news releases or articles, just a couple personal blogs with short posts that pretty much says the same thing said in the OP.
khan is looking really thin if these guys are punished. I mean there not a contender for the championship either way, but a line up of 4 protosses, juni , and sharp is really bad.
The person who bought the ID then paid few progamers and made them use the ID GanziTerran in order to hide that a non-progamer owned the ID
sorry, the post is kind of convoluted. 'few progamers' is Reality and Turn? Or Reality the original owner and the identities of the smurfs is still unknown?
[POST BETWEEN THE QUOTES ARE RUMORS FROM THE SUMMARIZED POV OF 1A2A3A] Seems like the original owner was Reality.
The owner (broker of betting website according to 1a2a3a) decided to pay some other progamers to hide the fact that GanziTerran has been bought; paid few players to play on the account, which seemingly included TurN and possibly Reality, some SKT T1 B-teamer, and one other name that I shall not mention directly (REMEMBER: ITS A GOD DAMN RUMOR still) + Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2011 08:47 Chef wrote: You guys know that there are always a tonne of dumb rumours going around right? Just because it's translated from Korean doesn't make it reliable. This is so a 'who cares' kind of thing.
It becomes somewhat relevant if the biggest 3rd party BNet server gets involved in the case with a lot of evidence supporting their side.
In any case, seems like the verdict amongst fomos users at the moment is: TurN and Reality did not know that GanziTerran was involved with SCBW betting websites, if GanziTerran turns out to be a broker. That's the general post atm; however we don't know what happened 100%. 1a2a3a got too ahead of himself and tried to ban these players for 'Match fixing' which they were not involved in.
It becomes somewhat relevant if the biggest 3rd party BNet server gets involved in the case with a lot of evidence supporting their side.
Not really... It's akin to JoeKim and Game bickering posts from iCCup drama. Especially considering the minilauncher that everyone has to use to play on Fish has trojans (whether or not you click no to the obvious adware) lol. I don't have too much respect for Fish sorry.
Honestly you read the details and you just think 'wow this is dumb who would write this.' On the surface you have the 'omg progamers are rigging amateur tournaments???' and underneath you have this really dumb story about who gives a shit losing a game on purpose to switch clans but some other crap I don't care about and what the hell and ok none of this proves anything about pro players participating in an amateur tournament (for which it's not clear the prestige, nor clear if anyone has respect for the organization of it, nor clear why progamers would want to rig it unless they are good friends and no one cares except the Korean version of JoeKim.
tl;dr: TL jumps to hilarious conclusions because we literally have nothing better to do and we've become pathetic gossip mongers.
Sounds like Terror prematurely flipping the shit here... It all seems hella confusing..Reality owned the ganzi account? He sold it, and then along with turn and other progamer got paid to play it?
I have a hard time taking this seriously because the account was clearly shared/sold (probably multiple times) so that basically how are you supposed to tell who's on the account at any given time? Not that I'm familiar with BrainClan stuff at all.
Anyway, even assuming the allegations are true, this looks like a dumbass-stunt-that's-earned-a-wristslap offence: max of a couple months suspension, some kind of probation on the progaming license, etc.
It becomes somewhat relevant if the biggest 3rd party BNet server gets involved in the case with a lot of evidence supporting their side.
Not really... It's akin to JoeKim and Game bickering posts from iCCup drama. Especially considering the minilauncher that everyone has to use to play on Fish has trojans (whether or not you click no to the obvious adware) lol. I don't have too much respect for Fish sorry.
Honestly you read the details and you just think 'wow this is dumb who would write this.' On the surface you have the 'omg progamers are rigging amateur tournaments???' and underneath you have this really dumb story about who gives a shit losing a game on purpose to switch clans but some other crap I don't care about and what the hell and ok none of this proves anything about pro players participating in an amateur tournament (for which it's not clear the prestige, nor clear if anyone has respect for the organization of it, nor clear why progamers would want to rig it unless they are good friends and no one cares except the Korean version of JoeKim.
tl;dr: TL jumps to hilarious conclusions because we literally have nothing better to do and we've become pathetic gossip mongers.
And that's not the whole point of my post either.
I said that it was speculation from the beginning, if you missed that part when you started reading, stop jumping into the main details before skipping the disclaimers.
Wow. The title seemed fairly innocent but when I realized that it was about matchmaking I changed my mind fast. I doubt it's as bad as bad as the case with savior involved due to the lack of "big" names but it surely has to possibility to dent the image of and the trust BW and esport in general.
As a fan of Khan and to lesser extent both Reality and Turn, I'm disappointed in them smurfing. Hopefully, that's all there was to it, and they get infractions.
So I read the OP and now I'm even more confused. O.o
So some guy bought the account GanziTerran from Reality. He hires a bunch of pros to play on it to mask its identity. And then he uses it to join a Clan, but the Clan found out that this account used to belong to a SKT1 B-teamer? But didn't it belong to Reality? :\
What the hell?....Why would someone do this? At least Savior and company had some financial incentives...certainly progamers wouldn't have much to gain from an amateur tournament...I hope it turns out to be false accusation.
On October 25 2011 15:01 sheaRZerg wrote: What the hell?....Why would someone do this? At least Savior and company had some financial incentives...certainly progamers wouldn't have much to gain from an amateur tournament...I hope it turns out to be false accusation.
It all depends how much these pro-gamers earn. Rookie/lower tier players earn pretty much nothing. So in the end, it's pretty "understandable" why they would do something like this, especially when there was around $10k involved. But once again, nothing seems to be confirmed or anything so..
On October 25 2011 21:00 Count9 wrote: Interesting, even if it's not true, rumors like this just reminds everyone that there are players who are only in it for the money.
when you're starving your entire life in front of a computer you surely are.
I'm thinking that TurN and Reality got bored cause of the insanely long break before Proleague starts again and decided to smurf for fun without actually wanting any sort of monetary rewards in return. Its bad in principle but still, not to the point where they actually participated in match fixing. Then again its all my speculation so believe it or not its up to you.
With the matchfixing scandal and the heavy punishment i'm pretty sure TurN and Reality wouldn't be idiots to risk trying to earn a few quick bucks to losing their progaming license..
On October 25 2011 21:00 Count9 wrote: Interesting, even if it's not true, rumors like this just reminds everyone that there are players who are only in it for the money.
when you're starving your entire life in front of a computer you surely are.
cold hard evidence! - thats what I want!! I receive so many rumors by korean people via kakaotalk I got to meet during my time in seoul concering SC that I would have much to post about.
I somehow doubt some of the facts posted above (I got to know some more facts of this a few days ago) and without adding even more fuel, lets wait and see...
ok, i just finished reading what ever snm wrote on the front page....
so to sum up, everything had been done through BNet, from the player contact to Khan coach confirmation on players... Sketchiest plot ever.... I know that korean do have a lot of static IP system so i hope it help. Unless they can pull some epic IP evidences, i think this case just gona slip. Anonymity on the internet is imba and cause drama
On October 26 2011 00:33 SnowFantasy wrote: Is smurfing into an amateur tournament really a problem if betting sites etc aren't involved ?
Seems like people are making a big deal out of something that isn't a big deal yet.
anything match-fixing related is a huge deal, although in this case it seems unlikely that there was any sort of match-fixing involved. Also, progamers trying to make an extra couple hundred bucks by faking their identity and playing in an amateur tournament seems wrong, so yea i'd say it's a problem.
It becomes somewhat relevant if the biggest 3rd party BNet server gets involved in the case with a lot of evidence supporting their side.
Not really... It's akin to JoeKim and Game bickering posts from iCCup drama. Especially considering the minilauncher that everyone has to use to play on Fish has trojans (whether or not you click no to the obvious adware) lol. I don't have too much respect for Fish sorry.
Honestly you read the details and you just think 'wow this is dumb who would write this.' On the surface you have the 'omg progamers are rigging amateur tournaments???' and underneath you have this really dumb story about who gives a shit losing a game on purpose to switch clans but some other crap I don't care about and what the hell and ok none of this proves anything about pro players participating in an amateur tournament (for which it's not clear the prestige, nor clear if anyone has respect for the organization of it, nor clear why progamers would want to rig it unless they are good friends and no one cares except the Korean version of JoeKim.
tl;dr: TL jumps to hilarious conclusions because we literally have nothing better to do and we've become pathetic gossip mongers.
And that's not the whole point of my post either.
I said that it was speculation from the beginning, if you missed that part when you started reading, stop jumping into the main details before skipping the disclaimers.
Admitting it is silly speculation doesn't make it any less silly. I don't understand why saying it is speculation is supposed to suddenly validate it's existence.
It becomes somewhat relevant if the biggest 3rd party BNet server gets involved in the case with a lot of evidence supporting their side.
Not really... It's akin to JoeKim and Game bickering posts from iCCup drama. Especially considering the minilauncher that everyone has to use to play on Fish has trojans (whether or not you click no to the obvious adware) lol. I don't have too much respect for Fish sorry.
Honestly you read the details and you just think 'wow this is dumb who would write this.' On the surface you have the 'omg progamers are rigging amateur tournaments???' and underneath you have this really dumb story about who gives a shit losing a game on purpose to switch clans but some other crap I don't care about and what the hell and ok none of this proves anything about pro players participating in an amateur tournament (for which it's not clear the prestige, nor clear if anyone has respect for the organization of it, nor clear why progamers would want to rig it unless they are good friends and no one cares except the Korean version of JoeKim.
tl;dr: TL jumps to hilarious conclusions because we literally have nothing better to do and we've become pathetic gossip mongers.
And that's not the whole point of my post either.
I said that it was speculation from the beginning, if you missed that part when you started reading, stop jumping into the main details before skipping the disclaimers.
Admitting it is silly speculation doesn't make it any less silly. I don't understand why saying it is speculation is supposed to suddenly validate it's existence.
Since when did regular speculation from a person who stated the whole situation on afreeca broadcast, along with BrainClan admin BrainSlayeR a silly speculation, if they showed some evidence on pgr21.com and other websites already?
And since when did 'speculations' become 'silly speculations'?
Seems like you're taking every 'post' from 1a2a3a and BrainSlayeR a silly speculation, which is fine. Doesn't mean that I can't post these speculations nor shouldn't post them here because this is the only information that we have on the current 'situation'. Rather, you tend to think that these speculations are conclusions or some baseless speculations, both of which is not at this moment.
Bored or not, if people were betting money, it doesn't look good for the Khan Terrans. I suppose the scope is a little smaller than match fixing in the SPL, but these guys should know better
EPT
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