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I've lived a wasted 15 years, but this has been something I've taken great offense in. You must be joking...? 'Omg, Tibet needs free human rights lolooolol yaya let's go bomb tha stupid crane's nest or wataever then we'll free Tibetans 4ever!!! ayayayaya!1!1!1shift+1!1!' In my stupidity, I feel like this is like, the most hypocritical thing I've heard of. 'They abused human rights! Let's go kill millions of innocent people!' Being a 2 hour drive away from Beijing, I told my aunt and uncle that we should go visit Beijing and see all the famous stuff to see - but then my mom called on the phone and was like 'omg terrorists no more trip to beijing for youuuu'. There's so much security there and yet something is bound to go wrong.
I hope that this thread isn't one of those 'anti-china' threads. I don't want to discuss anything about Tibet or anything. I want to discuss why some people take it upon themselves to actually go terrorize an international event. Please forgive me if you take offense to this thread. I hope you venerable elders will provide your just opinions on this topic, though.
http://english.cqnews.net/HIGHLIGHTS/200807/t20080711_2147828.htm
http://shanghaiist.com/2008/07/25/olympic_terrorists_arrested_in_shan.php
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-07-10-voa11.cfm
http://www.24en.com/voa/StandardEnglish/200804/2008-07-02/90524.html
Please read this poem below and understand my viewpoint and perspective on this issue. If anyone deems something unwarranted in this thread, please do not hesitate to tell me so I can remove it as quickly as possible. ***The poem was not written by me but I saw it when my parents were reading it many months ago. Some points of the poem I do not entirely agree with but I believe the emotion is there and I fully agree on that. I have edited the poem for grammar and spelling.
+ Show Spoiler [NOTE: May be offensive and slightly of…] +
A POEM FOR THE WEST
When we were called Sick Man of Asia, we were called the Peril.
When we were billed to be the next Superpower, we are called the threat.
When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets.
When we embraced free trade, you blamed us for taking away your jobs.
When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and wanted your "fair share".
When we were putting the broken pieces together again, "Free Tibet" you screamed, "it was an invasion!"
So we tried Communism, and you hated us for being Communists.
When we embraced Capitalism, you hated us for being Capitalist.
When we had a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.
When we tried limiting our numbers, you said it was human right's abuse.
When we were poor, you looked at us like we were dogs.
When we loaned you cash, you blamed us for your debts.
When we built our industries, you called us polluters.
When we sold you goods, you blamed us for global warming.
When we buy oil, you call that exploitation and genocide.
When you fight for oil, you call that liberation.
When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you wanted Rules of Law for us.
When we upheld law and order against violence, you called that human right's violations.
When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech.
When we were silent no more, you said we were brainwashed-Xenophoics.
"Why do you hate us so much?" we asked.
"No," you answered, "We don't hate you."
"We don't hate you either,
but do you understand us?"
"Of course we do," you said,
"We have AFP, CNN and BBCs..."
What do you really want from us?
Think hard first, then answer...
Because you only get so many chances,
Enough is enough, enough hypocrisy for this one world.
We want One World, One Dream, And Peace On Earth.
- This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of us.
 
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Yeah, I've seen this poem going around. It does give some perspective, but it's full of logical holes and conveniently ignores a lot of realities. Huh. China really is catching up to the US.
As for the terrorists... there's a subset of idiots in every group that's big enough. The world sucks that way.
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Yes, there are many issues not addressed in the poem - but it really shows the frustration for many of the people living in China atm I think.
Yes - I am completely surprised that there's such radical people and have such extremist feelings  Takes me off guard.
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On July 30 2008 19:38 BottleAbuser wrote:
It does give some perspective, but it's full of logical holes and conveniently ignores a lot of realities.
We can learn a lot from this guy's post.
Lesson 1: Never give any proof for your statements to prevent losing the following argument.
Lesson 2: Holes, made out of logic, actually exist. They sneak into poems that don't reflect western ideology.
Lesson 3: There are "a lot of realities". Nobody knows exactly how many, because most of them are ignored.
On a more serious note: Go, China!
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Here's a poem from the west to china:
China, please stop
building coal factories.
k thx
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I like to pretend I'm logical, and I'm confident that most people here also like pretending to be logical too. So we'll use some logic.
The second to last line I interpret as saying "hypocrisy is bad."
The poem criticizes "the west" for "understanding" them through news agencies. The Chinese people have nothing but their news agency to learn about the west. This, by definition, is hypocrisy. Finding other logical holes is left as an exercise to the reader.
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On July 30 2008 19:38 BottleAbuser wrote:
As for the terrorists... there's a subset of idiots in every group that's big enough. The world sucks that way.
Ya I am always upset that it's usually a small group of morons who make the biggest news. Then they make all the other morons believe them. When are people going to act rational and patiently seek out truths rather than have a quick judgement of every matter, even things they have NO clue about?
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On July 30 2008 19:57 HeadBangaa wrote:
Here's a poem from the west to china:
China, please stop
building coal factories.
k thx
On Public Profile HeadBangaa wrote:
Support Humanity.
Fuck China.
*insert various Youtube anti-China videos and pictures*
I respect your opinion but if this isn't about the topic at hand - please do not post here especially when I specified not deriving the topic (and being quite rude as well). If you devote your entire life to being anti-China (as I deduce without viewing all the facts ignorantly, although my implications at least should be half-truths based on your profile) you probably shouldn't aggravate someone proud of China for no reason at all (unless there is a reason, which there's something in my op that speaks of telling me if something offended you). Although I'm quite stupid, I find your post unfounded and unjustified. It is very rude, reverend sir (and possible malefactor).
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New lessons from our beloved teacher.
On July 30 2008 19:59 BottleAbuser wrote:
I like to pretend I'm logical, and I'm confident that most people here also like pretending to be logical too. So we'll use some logic.
Lesson 4: There are people who do not only "think" logically, they "like to pretend" to exist logically. I'm not even talking about Fichte (German philosopher who developed a system similar to this "reasoning") here. Those people "use" not the whole, but "some" of their "logic".
The second to last line I interpret as saying "hypocrisy is bad."
Lesson 5: "Using" "some" "logic" might go as far as "interpreting" random lines of a poem. But beware, for pure reason is a strict master, and to describe hypocrisy by "using some logic", we import a moral category: bad.
The poem criticizes "the west" for "understanding" them through news agencies. The Chinese people have nothing but their news agency to learn about the west. This, by definition, is hypocrisy.
Lesson 6: News agencies are tools for information distribution. In China, they are the only tools for information distribution (no proof - lesson 1). Which is - "by definition" - hypocrisy. So we just define that Chinese people don't have the right to travel to other countries or to speak to foreigners, and our sweet little system - built by "using" "some" "logic" - makes China a bad country and us the better people.
"Using" this kind of "logic" the USA went out to look for Saddam's WMDs - why not declare war on China? Might work, as long as "most people here also like pretending to be logical too".
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Haven't been overtly flamed (although offended in a *certain* post) but in my stupidity I feel this topic derailing...
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Hey, it´s not that I don´t like your poem, but what exactly does it have to do with olympic terrorists? There will hardly be western terrorists at the olympics. You derailed your own thread there.
Also regarding terrorists: Terrorists would threaten the olympics regardless of the place where they are held. And which terrorist attack did ever kill millions of people?
Terrorist attacks are used in almost every country as an argument to enforce security measures. Yes people died in terrorist attacks. But how many people die in car crashes? The importance of terrorist attacks is often blown out of proportion. I am not saying governments shouldn´t address this issue. But there is no reason to make it No.1 priority.
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On July 30 2008 21:43 Maenander wrote:
Hey, it´s not that I don´t like your poem, but what exactly does it have to do with olympic terrorists? There will hardly be western terrorists at the olympics. You derailed your own thread there.
Sorry about that then, do you think it should be removed? I put it there because I felt it voiced the frustration, but I guess such a poem could incite people's instinct to respond to the poem instead.
On July 30 2008 21:43 Maenander wrote:
Also regarding terrorists: Terrorists would threaten the olympics regardless of the place where they are held. And which terrorist attack did ever kill millions of people?
Terrorist attacks are used in almost every country as an argument to enforce security measures. Yes people died in terrorist attacks. But how many people die in car crashes? The importance of terrorist attacks is often blown out of proportion. I am not saying governments shouldn´t address this issue. But there is no reason to make it No.1 priority.
I know more people die in car crashes, etc. However in my stupidity I am not trying to make it as if the number of lives lost is the main point I'm trying to portray here, rather the hypocrisy found in radical "Westerners" and extremists who feel so strongly about the Olympics and China that they would take it upon themselves to inflict harm on others. Although the 1972 Munich games was not a proportion of 'millions' of people (about 20, iirc?) - even if such an event happened at the 2008 Beijing Olympics it would be HUGE, and if it was the cause of terrorists who did it for the purpose of "freeing Tibet" it would, in my stupid opinion:
a) Be hypocritical and be counter productive in terms of anything that they'd plan to achieve
b) Increase frustrations among Chinese - tauten tensions
c) be an immoral act and lose respect for the country they came from
So you do make very valid points - ones that I cannot answer except to say you're correct. But I'm very confused as to why these people think that violence will get them what they want (which was sort of answered in an earlier post in that 'there are morons in society').
Thank you for your honest, valid, kind and well thought response Teacher.
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I think the most common terrorist incident in China would involve homegrown terrorists. My guess is that Islamic Uighur terrorists would carry out an attack to put their plight on an international scale similar to Tibet.
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Terrorist attacks aren't about the casualties. They're about the political ramifications. Look at the 9/11 attacks. In my opinion, the US government was more concerned about having lost the twin towers and the insult to the nation than the 3000 people who died.
But honestly, I really don't see anyone actually making an attack at the Beijing Olympics. The way I see it, anti-Chinese sentiment in the West is, to but it very bluntly, bored, uninformed people blindly following the media. I'm not saying that's true of everyone, but I question how much the average protester actually knows about the situation in China. I'm willing to bet that less than 25% of those participating in the boycott Beijing 2008 protests have actually visited China. Yes, we all know that Tibet is being oppressed and there are some serious humans rights issues going on there, but how much do we know beyond that? I was born in China and I don't know anything! And how many of the people screaming "bomb China!" actually mean it?
The words "freedom" and "oppression" have become rallying points in the US. When those words are heard on BBC or CNN, emotions are stirred and people automatically flock to "fight for freedom and justice." I might eat my words, but I really don't see anyone actually acting upon their threats. The reality is, Western nations are too dependent on China's economy and labour force to risk further straining diplomatic relationships. Furthermore, as Superiorwolf pointed out, it's an international event! Sure, China would lose the most face if an attack occurred but it would almost be an act of war against the world. People can shout "bomb China!" or "boycott Beijing 2008!" all they want but chances are, their threats are hollow and their calls will go unanswered.
edit: I'm assuming we're not talking about generic Islamic terrorists, but radical westerners here.
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Nothing is going to happen at the olympic games, no way. I can't imagine a bombing happening during the games, a huge amount of secruity personnel standing around saying 'Oh... shit... totally did not see that coming..." seems just a tad unlikely. Someone is probably gonna try something, but I garuntee that China does /squelch terrorist long before anyone is killed. (Not that I'm trying to say the best way to deal with terrorism is to ignore it and then report it to Blizzard, but you get what I mean). I think that the entire concept of boycotting the olympics is:
a) Stupid and useless, no matter how many people decide to boycott Beijing '08 there will still be millions watching on tv and attending the events.
b) Sort of politically awkward, wouldn't you say? Like, George Bush has his dick up the ass of any country that's ever rubbed him the wrong way, yet all of North America is like "Whoa, China, too far, you took it too far." My message to the Chinese government would be that if you finda shitload of oil somewhere in your country, keep it on the down-low. Not trying to drag other issues into this thread or anything, I'm just saying that jackasses shouldn't point fingers at other jackasses. It's bad idea because if we're pointing fingers at China, and they're pointing fingers at us, they still have more fingers and it's rude to point. The solution to this is not to go to China and cut off their fingers, but to stop pointing fingers at them.
Iraq government causes their country to become invaded (because America was trying to teach them a lesson for hiding nukes *insert obligatory floating e-bay over nuke silo joke here*) and then innocent people die in Iraq from something that's not even their own fault.
As a result of this, everyone assumes Americans are just complete dillweeds, from something that's not even their own fault.
China does whatever they are trying to do in Tibet, and government fucks over innocent people in Tibet for something that's not their own fault.
Everyone assumes China is full of assholes and takes it out on the olympic games to teach the Chinese government a lesson and this fucks over global spectators and athletes, worse yet people attending the game if there was some kind of successful attack.
This whole, 'trying to hurt people to teach them a lesson' system really blows the big one as far as its success rate shows.
People are d-bags.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
you wanna talk about terrorists and china as the victim but when people oppose your opinion you cry "derail" and ask that they leave.. awesome strategy.
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i've gotten a lot of chinkachinka oriental comments by some pro tibet people. I tell them they're wearing chinese clothing, waving chinese made flags, using a china made loudspeaker, and eating chinese takeout food. I also ask them how many of them know where Tibet is on a map.
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The use of " we " in the poem makes me laught.
I didnt know that " we " means members of the communist party.
Btw the huge nationalism surge in China is disgusting.
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the chinese government is bad. i don't like it. why do they have to block history from their own people? like 6-4 tianamen square. most people don't know about it. even chinese ppl in canada think it was some stupid students. they don't know it was for democracy.
i think there will be a revolution soon. if they want to follow capitalism then there is no more communism. the government just doesn't want to give up their power. they assume the common chinaman is stupid, and shouldn't vote. that they don't know whats good for them.
india is the second most populous country in asia, and they have democracy. they have free press. they don't have the criticism that china has. their cultures are similar. so chinese ppl shouldn't say that democracy isn't possible for a large number of people.
chinese ppl are too proud to admit their own faults. USA is the greatest nation to ever be established in the world to date. All other countries aren't even close. The difference in GDP is 10^12 = 1 trillion dollars difference between china and the US. people openly make fun of the leader and the government. people feel free to do so and I like it. i'm not afraid to say that I think the government is bad. but in china people are afraid to say it. they are afraid to critize the government. in many cases its illegal.
please chinese ppl don't support such a system, out of fear.
stop thinking that china is the next great country. stop thinking taht just because japan produces some anime that people are followign what u call "asian culture" there isn't such a thing. asian culture is just a knock off of american culture. plus asia isn't just china japan korea. there are other countries in asia. idontknow why yellow ppl use the term asian when there are other races other than yellow in asia.
aah..
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I am offended by OP. Not every american thinks china is some evil country. Now that I think about it, I don't know many people who do. The whole "free" tibet thing consists of: 2 million ignorant school girls and 2 activists that actually care. The news makes a big deal of it because it makes money. Don't be so damn racist.
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EPT
