• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:51
CET 12:51
KST 20:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
sOs joins Best's team, Newcatsle University Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7712 users

[Spoilers] OSL Semi-Final thoughts

Blogs > Guybrush
Post a Reply
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-16 00:08:41
August 15 2009 18:34 GMT
#1
Mind over mechanics you say ? I say Mechanics and mind over mind Stop assuming players with excellent mechanics cannot match players with excellent mind in the mind department. It's the other way around; players with excellent minds cannot match players with excellent mechanics in the mechanics department, due to obvious physical restrictions. For me this series were considered to be the final, as a JvZ final against Yarnc - whom is good of course, but has no experience at this stage, will most likely be a onesided rape.

This post will mostly cover thoughts around the players, the first two games of the final, as the last two were far too onesided, and in my humble opinion quite meaningless to discuss. Only the psychological aspect around those two matches would be somewhat interesting, but regardless, I think game 2 broke fantasy, while game 3 was the nail in the coffin.

Let me start with Jaedong. Jaedong is an incredible player.
I no longer have any doubt that he is the most complete player in this age. I've never been a fan of him, but I've always admired him for his hard work, and been amazed by his play ever since his breakthrough two years ago. How can you not like this guy ? In his interview after the series he gave so good, and honest answers I could not help to think that this is a true champion, and a great person which made me respect him even more.

"I believe that the concept of the Bonjwa is just talk from an earlier period and I will just maintain my abilities until I reach my last days as a gamer."
- Words of Wisdom, by Jaedong.

He has the micro, macro, ability, mentality, game-sense, effort, drive, decicionmaking skills,etc. Jaedong doesnt battle his opponent, he is battling himself. Jaedongs work ethics have already been documented plenty of times, and that he has managed to deliver the results that he has in perhaps the longest year for a progamer ever deserves great respect. To put it in perspective, Jaedong has almost 5 pages of matches in the TLPD the last year. Oov had 3 pages in his most dominant year(october 2003~october 2004). He is about to complete the most impressive season ever seen in modern times. Quarters in GOM, semis in MSL, two finals in PL(WL included), and an OSL final. The first player to own the curse so thoroughly since NaDa back in Shinhan3, and with a possibility to be the third golden mouse winner, and the first serious contender for a possible platinum mouse(5 OSL wins). Did I also mention an oppurtunity to be the first back-to-back OSL champion since Boxer ? The gods will not be happy if Jaedong doesnt win this OSL. If he were to end up with no titles this season, I think every starcraft fan can agree that it would be bloody unfair. This please
[image loading]


[image loading]

Then there is Fantasy. A player who didnt stand out as an exceptionally gifted player early on in his career like for example Jaedong, or NaDa, but yet a player who understands the game more than most progamers. Yes he has a great coaching staff, and yes I attributed alot of his early TvZ success to iloveoov, but he should no longer be considered a "pure strategist", who has average mechanics. At first I only respected his TvT, but he has proven to be as good, if not better in TvZ, and most definitely in TvP.

Fantasy has improved alot in the past 10 months. When he was meching as never before against Zerg I was ridiculing his bionic TvZ, pointing out his awful M&M and vessel control. He has come a long way since that, and the first game from the PL final vs Jaedong, and his two first games in this final illustrates my point. His M&M control has vastly improved, eventhough he still loses many vessels. Then again he was playing Jaedong who is the best vessel killer of all time.

Still he wins the two first mentioned games comfortably, never really looking threatened. The last game - the 2nd game in the final, he also looked very good, and I was greatly impressed by his multitasking, dodging scourges with dropships, running around with his main force, irradiating stuff, all while maintaining a steady solid macro. He was everywhere, and it smelled victory again.

Is Jaedong a human afterall ? Yes he can make errors and misclick, believe it or not. In game 1 in the final we saw glimpses of this with his partly unsuccessful flanking of fantasys forces in the center of the map. I also saw something Id never seen from Jaedong before. He was throwing down TWO dark swarms on the same spot. Twice. One close to his entrance, and one in the path leading to his third. This is uncharacteristically for a player who has thrived on his defiler abilities in this matchup. Was it a sign of nerves from the Dong, or was it a simple error which could have happened in any game ? I think the former, due to the mistake being repeated in game 2, this time also outside his natural. I watched the match and was amazed at how many times Jaedong was cought out of position. Slowly I could see this face becoming more and more a reality :
[image loading]


Then the imbalance that is Jaedong tuned in and outmuscled him in the end, but Fantasy put up a very good fight. For Jaedong this game was a massive confidence-booster, while for fantasy it must have felt heartbreaking. He was playing so well but it just wasnt enough. Saying it was the mere fact that Jaedong opted to go hydra/lurker/filer instead of the standard guardian-defiler-ultra pattern that has become mainstream, as the sole reason for Jaedongs win is ludicrous. This was only a part of the reason Jaedong won. You could feel Jaedong focusing really hard on making correct decicions at every moment trying to drag the game as long as possible, never making any foolish attacks.

When he canceled his eggs on his ramp at 1 o'clock, was a great moment which showed that Jaedong was going to play as efficient as possible, always running away from unwinnable battles. Normally Jaedong wouldnt have cared and probably just let those lurkers finish because "obviously I'll have units there in time to save them". He took no chances, even trying to run away with those cornered lurkers beneath the cliff to the 1 o'clock natural. No doubt auto-pilot Jaedong was off, and his victory was hard earned through not only excellent mechanics, but through carefully calculated decicions. And this concentration
[image loading]

So what does it say when we look at their reactions after each game ? Obviously when they are losing, they are both professional enough to watch the replay afterwards, and "see what went wrong". Or were they ? When Fantasy loses game 2, it does not take a long time before he leaves his box to go back with Oov. Now this is a sign of weakness, and I think Jaedong might have noticed that. Is fantasy merely saying "I was outplayed, because he has better mechanics than me, theres no point in watching this replay." ? I think that by saying this he fuels Jaedongs confidence, which one could see was diminishing after the first game, and then reappearing at the end of second game.

Fantasy should by no means accept that "I lost because he had better mechanics", eventhough this was the case. Theres no reason to go to Oov, and ask for some sort of an explanation from him, because he knows the truth as well. And eventhough he is probably smart enough to fabricate another reason for the loss it wont help if Fantasy does not believe him.

My point isnt that fantasy is dependant on his coaches, or weak mentally, but that he has to go into a match knowing he is the better player, and not run to his coaches after a loss. Going to your coaches after a win is an entirely different thing. When Jaedong sees Fantasy running to his coaches after losing it boosts his confidence.

A small rant: The liftoff after the 4pool is reason enough to root for Jaedong alone. THIS DOES NOT MENTALLY AFFECT JAEDONG OR "TIRE" HIM, IT ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK SILLY, AND STUBBORN. ALSO IT FORCES AN ANTI-CLIMATIC GG THAT IS HORRIBLE FROM A SPECTATOR VIEW.
[image loading]

Thanks to ghostwriter for his translation of the interview with Jaedong, and for risingdragoons interesting post about Fantasy, and his coaches influence.

****
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
vRoOk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1024 Posts
August 15 2009 18:42 GMT
#2
nice write-up 5/5
Breaking Bad
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
August 15 2009 18:43 GMT
#3
Fantasy does have some pretty decent mechanics though, at least in his multitasking ability. I find that it's mostly his decision making that has some serious problems at times.
Aresien
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United Kingdom305 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-15 18:48:14
August 15 2009 18:46 GMT
#4
I don't think Fantasy was saying that, I think he left the booth for consultance and advice which he obviously placed higher than watching the rep. All in all though a nice read

P.s which game is that pic from? JD usually looks angry but there he looks furious.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
August 15 2009 19:17 GMT
#5
As noted, Fantasy has good mechanics and some solid macro, but sometimes his decision-making leaves much to be desired. But then again, that can be said for almost any progamer, even Jaedong. Fantasy didn't play well, Jaedong capitalized.

5/5 for that last Jaedong pic.
God Bless
IMlemon
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Lithuania296 Posts
August 15 2009 19:22 GMT
#6
So, when we will get that bisu vs jaedong finals/semi-finals/something important I've been waiting for, um, two years or so? Fantasy is cool and stuff, but ahhhhh .
My future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
August 15 2009 20:11 GMT
#7
fantasy looks so dumb in that "terrorist ceremony" picture.
Sullifam
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20667 Posts
August 15 2009 22:36 GMT
#8
holy shit that last face
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 15 2009 22:54 GMT
#9
Great blog with epic pictures.
Moderator
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
August 15 2009 23:52 GMT
#10
I think you're reading way too much into what happened between the games, still a good read tho
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IntoTheTV X SOOP
20:00
Premier - Quarterfinals
ByuN vs SHINLIVE!
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
CranKy Ducklings SOOP78
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 27
ByuN (SOOP) 18
EnDerr 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27624
Calm 4620
Rain 2338
Horang2 797
Mini 558
BeSt 462
FanTaSy 345
actioN 177
Stork 173
Last 155
[ Show more ]
Hyun 151
ggaemo 125
Mind 104
Leta 97
Pusan 71
sSak 62
hero 38
Free 37
scan(afreeca) 35
Sharp 35
sOs 35
Killer 34
Creator 31
Yoon 27
Classic 25
Movie 24
Bale 23
Aegong 19
zelot 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Barracks 16
soO 16
Sacsri 15
yabsab 11
Dota 2
XcaliburYe266
Other Games
B2W.Neo746
Lowko424
Fuzer 219
Mew2King88
NeuroSwarm57
ViBE33
Railgan21
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 779
Counter-Strike
PGL100
Other Games
ComeBackTV 82
[ Show 9 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
IPSL
5h 9m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
7h 9m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
23h 9m
IPSL
1d 5h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.