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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On June 30 2009 04:07 Last Romantic wrote: YellOw you guys are all traitors Oh crap, I totally forgot about him. Like everyone else, I went nuts when he trashed bisu on heartbreak. But then again, he did lose to a bunker rush 3 times in a row, even if it was boxer... Savior's reign of dominance can be displayed by the description of the MSL as the Ma Jae Yoon Starleague. His late game hive play was just artistic. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
Highest Level Achieved: Jaedong I can't see how anyone can argue that Jaedong was more influential style-wise than Savior. Yes, he popularized the 2-hatch muta build (but wasn't the first to really do it) and pioneered the new-age ZvP (that most Zergs try to copy). But those two somewhat significant innovations are easily surpassed by the change that Savior created with his ZvP and ZvT, which totally swung the balance in those two matchups and established standardized BOs for quite some time. When oov was dominating it seemed like Zerg had no answer late game for T armies (save for one magical starleague run by Gorush). Then all of a sudden every Zerg is timing and using defilers and expansions etc like Savior did. EVERY zerg was doing it. Also, it's pretty obvious Jaedong has reached the highest peak level of any Zerg player, possibly of any Starcraft player (the only guy who can compete with him is Bisu) ever. If you look at the way Jaedong plays, its basically impossible to copy. Sure other Zergs tried to, but its not the same as emulating Savior (which is entirely possible, just look at GGPlay winning Daum or Effort now). Nobody really has had very much success trying to copy Jaedong, simply because they can't. That should really tell you something about who was more influential. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:39 iMBA wrote: Zero! Where would Infested Terrans be without him? In the hands of GoCrush I believe On June 30 2009 04:50 ffswowsucks wrote: Just to name a few korean: YellOw, JulyZerg, sAviOr, Jaedong, choJJa chinese: F91 european: Anon, xIaOzI, ret, sataNik, blackman, Mondragon XiaOzI is actually Chinese. -- I think the fact that sAviOr was the only Zerg bonjwa and he changed the game for all three races with his timings should really speak for itself. Granted, this is opinion, but I mean, c'mon. 3 MSL titles 5 consecutive MSL finals 7 consecutive MSL Top 8 finishes. (8 total) 12 consecutive MSL appearances - The last time MJY wasn't in an MSL was YATGK MSL back in 2004 (13 total) 1 OSL title - Royal Road 3 consecutive OSL Top 8 finishes (3 total) 5 consecutive OSL appearances Maintains ≥55% winning percentage in all matchups Held onto the Zerg ELO peak for over a year. Still holds ZvP ELO Peak 3rd highest ZvT ELO Peak 3rd highest ZvZ ELO Peak | ||
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sillyboy_tomato
United States157 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:16 sillyboy_tomato wrote: But I think no other Zerg has accomplished the consistency that jaedong has Uhhh... what? After EVER2007, he lost in Ro8 in Bacchus, got eliminated in Ro24 for EVER2008, completely missed Incruit and then came back for Batoo. After Arena MSL finals, he has yet to make another MSL Round of 8. That's not really consistent imo. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: But his career isn't over yet? Even during those times, he maintained a strong position on the PR. I'm just stating that he's been absent from leagues quite often and so on and so forth. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: But his career isn't over yet? Even during those times, he maintained a strong position on the PR. Just because you're on the PR doesn't mean you are performing well in individual leagues. Look at Violet. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On June 30 2009 04:06 Railz wrote: Was? Are you joking? When he exploded on the scene his ZvT was taking down giants left and right. Yeah I know his ZvT was great at the time But it was only temporarily, and this poll asks of all time. | ||
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ForSC2
United States580 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:36 Murlox wrote: Jaedong looks unbeatable Jaedong loses to every other S class on a bad day. Savior during that period loses to what? Bisu and... Canata? The only other possible choice is JulyZerg because of how he broke Iloveoov's year long vs zerg win ratio, his ability to stay relevant, and his spectacular zvp style which as of right now may be zergs highest zvp of all time since Savior got dethroned. If you want to talk about current skill level, then yes Jaedong is king. If it's contribution to the zerg race in terms of new tactics, etc then maybe there's an argument, but then players like Yellow would be pretty high up too. If you're talking about dominance the only choice is one of the bonjwas and Savior is the only zerg bonjwa. People that say Jaedong if they're not basing their decisions on current skill level or contribution to the scene prove that they weren't here when savior was king. Where you'd see threads seriously considering whether savior's dominance was a good or bad thing for sc. Where people would hate him because despite the fact he always wins it's in a much more boring way than say boxer's way. Where you have Nada winning the accomplishment of his life after a long slump and dedicating his win to his dead father and people say Nada still couldn't beat Savior with his current force and point to the game right after his OSL victory where he lost vs Savior. Where you'd put in any player in the game vs savior and say I can't imagine Savior losing. Jaedong certainly isn't that much better than his peers if he's better at all. Starcraft is still in a state of flux with top players trading games with top players. It's going to be a while before we see another Nada or Iloveoov. Also I'm feeling sad no one is mentioning Gorush at all. Not that I think he's better than Savior. Before JulyZerg got his golden mouse I always saw Gorush as to economic zerg play as July was to aggressive play. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:59 3 Lions wrote: Just because you're on the PR doesn't mean you are performing well in individual leagues. Look at Violet. Yeah, but I was more referring to how his play didn't dip too much during that time. He judges consistency based on results, I do it on gameplay. | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10835 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:09 verzisor wrote: July. But I wonder what people would think about July vs Nada as best player of all time sine they both have a golden mouse  comparing nada to july head to head, i don't think anyone can honestly choose july over nada. this is both in terms of consistency, nonexistant MSL results for july, and because in IOPS OSL nada 3-0'd july. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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Ideas
United States8181 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On June 30 2009 06:36 KOFgokuon wrote: savior FBH | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 30 2009 06:05 ForSC2 wrote: Jaedong loses to every other S class on a bad day. Savior during that period loses to what? Bisu and... Canata? I would argue Bisu was the end of Savior's dominance, not a rival during his dominance. But I definitely agree with your point. There were the chumps, there were the greats, there were the amazings, and then there was freaking Savior. You'd watch games played by amazing players just cause you liked them, but you'd watch EVERY game by Savior, and when he played against an amazing player, he was still a huge favourite to win. Savior always seemed to take best of fives and only the best could even make it to the fifth game with him. When Bisu got his rise to fame... Sure his PvZ was revolutionary, but his PvT was mediocre (among great players, still better than most players), and his PvP was sometimes suspect. Taking Stork was amazing, but after that Bisu was never really the same force he used to be. His micro and tactics were always strong, but I didn't see him dominating. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:22 fusionsdf wrote: savior I don't think I even have to justify it On June 30 2009 03:25 StorZerg wrote: JulyZerg brought mutas in. On June 30 2009 03:25 eagle wrote: Jaedong he came up with 5 hatch hydra build in pvz I lol'd at the first 3 responses in this thread. Then I thought Wa- wa- WAITGOD DAMNED MINUTE! Where the fuck is [NC]...YelloW ? Then I remembered that Yellow was reverse bonjwa for eternity. PS- Also Shark? or whoever it was that discovered the use for muta stacking. That changed the game so much its crazy. | ||
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