EPTSign This Petition - Page 2
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Creationism
China505 Posts
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Dgtl
Canada889 Posts
And all the people that are saying "Oh, well those people who are poor will now be even more poor if this stop" are stupid. They could get jobs making fake fur because if this is shut down then there will be a higher demand for fake fur creating other jobs for those people. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:09 Falcynn wrote: ...I realize that's probably sarcasm, but I have to agree that it still seems inefficient to beat an animal into unconsciousness before skinning them. Seems like you'd save a lot more time by just slitting their throat than beating them. Actually I wasn't really being sarcastic...the smiley at the end was for the sake of mocking this whole issue. In the end, I think wasting time and energy on an issue like this overlooks many other more important ones. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:06 anderoo wrote: Yeah what was I thinking, they're poor so they should be allowed to smack living animals on the ground like they're beating out a rug while everyone cheers and watches. Just watch the video, I really badly want to be a superhero. You are in an incredibly easy moral position, you come from a wealthy country where we can afford to ease animal suffering so you think that puts you in a position to tell other populations to sacrifice parts of their lives for your well being? How can you live with that? What have you given up for these people? Can you offer them a new job? Education? Anything? Would you give up your job to ease animal suffering? The only thing you can do to sympathize with the animals is contribute to a better and more fair society in China or stop wearing fur, anything else is short sighted and morally reprehensible. On February 02 2009 05:29 Dgtl wrote: HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU LIKE IF YOU WERE BEAT THEN SKINNED ALIVE???? And all the people that are saying "Oh, well those people who are poor will now be even more poor if this stop" are stupid. They could get jobs making fake fur because if this is shut down then there will be a higher demand for fake fur creating other jobs for those people. If someone skinned me alive I would write an angry message on TL about it in capslock. I like how you just turn around supply and demand by the way. Instead of blaming the people for demanding fur, let's blame the people who barely make a living off it and tell them to stop caving in to economic demands, and change their jobs creating a somewhat similar kind of supply, and hope that somehow still fills demands. That's not how the economy works. You aren't in a position to tell them how to live either way, you think the west has ever sacrificed something for their code of morality? We have morals because we can afford to, we never stopped skinning animals because we felt bad for animals, we stopped because we could afford other things, or exploit poor skinners like the ones in China while getting rich ourself. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:29 Dgtl wrote: HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU LIKE IF YOU WERE BEAT THEN SKINNED ALIVE???? And all the people that are saying "Oh, well those people who are poor will now be even more poor if this stop" are stupid. They could get jobs making fake fur because if this is shut down then there will be a higher demand for fake fur creating other jobs for those people. I'm not a dog or a cat, and I don't have fur. What use would anyone get out of skinning me? | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:29 Frits wrote: You are in an incredibly easy moral position, you come from a wealthy country where we can afford to ease animal suffering so you think that puts you in a position to tell other populations to sacrifice parts of their lives for your well being? How can you live with that? What have you given up for these people? Can you offer them a new job? Education? Anything? Would you give up your job to ease animal suffering? The only thing you can do to sympathize with the animals is contribute to a better and more fair society in China or stop wearing fur, anything else is short sighted and morally reprehensible. How about we just get them to kill the animals as painlessly as in their power before they skin them? The current system of grabbing them by the ankles and then slapping them on the ground until they go into shock and stop fighting back is probably (from my perspective on my ivory tower) not the most humane way to skin an animal On February 02 2009 05:34 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: god i hate animal rights nuts A nut? Yesterday I was just like you not giving a shit about animal rights until a friend linked me to the video. I thought it was pretty disturbing so I had two choices: 1) sign the petition (free, takes 15 seconds) 2) do nothing so I signed the petition and showed the video to other people Crazy! | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:29 Frits wrote: You are in an incredibly easy moral position, you come from a wealthy country where we can afford to ease animal suffering so you think that puts you in a position to tell other populations to sacrifice parts of their lives for your well being? How can you live with that? What have you given up for these people? Can you offer them a new job? Education? Anything? Would you give up your job to ease animal suffering? The only thing you can do to sympathize with the animals is contribute to a better and more fair society in China or stop wearing fur, anything else is short sighted and morally reprehensible. Signing an online petition is definitely stupid, but you're argument to me is wildly fallacious. They're poor, so they can savagely beat animals when it probably doesn't make them any less poor than if they didn't? What else should you be allowed to get away with if you're poor, but not if you're rich? Rape? Stealing? Ethnic genocide? Religious persecution? Slavery? A secret police? Those are certainly things that are more likely in poor nations than in rich nations. There's a difference between being morally relativistic and saying "anything goes." It is well known that humans feel pain, and animals do by the same process. Being poor isn't a free ticket to do anything you want because it's "culturally acceptable." There are worse things than beating animals, but there are always worse things - rape is worse than stealing, murder is worse than rape. Insulting the op in that way because you think he should be spending his time doing more relevant humanitarian things is silly, maybe he is already doing them. I'm sure there are things that one can do to contribute to a fairer and better society in China, but for the average citizen I would say there's not much. Perhaps the op is an emissary for a human rights organization though, I'm not sure. | ||
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hazz
United Kingdom570 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
The petition says: To: The Government of the Peoples Republic of China Please urgently introduce legislation in China to: 1. Make it illegal to slaughter cats, dogs and other animals by skinning them alive for their fur 2. Protect all animals against mistreatment and cruelty of any nature 3. Ban the export from China of cat and dog fur and any products containing cat or dog fur 4. Ban cat and dog fur from being used wholly or partly in the manufacture of products in China 5. Introduce severe penalties to enforce the legislation Did you actually read that shit?! Look basically this upsets you because on top of you ivory tower you feel sad when you read animals on the other side of the world are in pain. But the people who do it don't feel bad because they don't have the same emotions as you; more importantly neither do the animals. | ||
boesthius
United States11637 Posts
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boesthius
United States11637 Posts
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Creationism
China505 Posts
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:19 Draconizard wrote: I approve of the wholesale slaughter of cuddly animals. and I agree with his approval. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:34 anderoo wrote: How about we just get them to kill the animals as painlessly as in their power before they skin them? The current system of grabbing them by the ankles and then slapping them on the ground until they go into shock and stop fighting back is probably (from my perspective on my ivory tower) not the most humane way to skin an animal A nut? Yesterday I was just like you not giving a shit about animal rights until a friend linked me to the video. I thought it was pretty disturbing so I had two choices: 1) sign the petition (free, takes 15 seconds) 2) do nothing so I signed the petition and showed the video to other people Crazy! Once again, think about it from a practical perspective. I'm sure if it were more practical and cost-efficient to do so, they would, in fact, kill the animals first. They're not being cruel for the sake of being cruel. In addition, you watch one video of one instance from one country from god knows how many years ago...you seem to be basing your entire position off of that video. That's a bit weak of a platform to be standing upon, don't you think? Now I'm not saying that the video is an exception or anything...I'm sure there's much worse going on out there...but really, stop and think about it. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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MasterOfChaos
Germany2896 Posts
On the other hand I find Creationism's zeal disturbing. Of course one has every right to criticize them for their brutal handling of animals. And of course on can demand laws which reduce the brutality. For example we have some laws in Germany which probably would forbid such treatment. Animals are still treated brutally here, but avoiding unnecessary brutality is a good goal. And why shouldn't people wish that similar laws apply in other countries such as china. And I dislike your argument which reduces sentinent beings to "property". | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:37 Ancestral wrote: Signing an online petition is definitely stupid, but you're argument to me is wildly fallacious. They're poor, so they can savagely beat animals when it probably doesn't make them any less poor than if they didn't? What else should you be allowed to get away with if you're poor, but not if you're rich? Rape? Stealing? Ethnic genocide? Religious persecution? Slavery? A secret police? Those are certainly things that are more likely in poor nations than in rich nations. There's a difference between being morally relativistic and saying "anything goes." It is well known that humans feel pain, and animals do by the same process. Being poor isn't a free ticket to do anything you want because it's "culturally acceptable." There are worse things than beating animals, but there are always worse things - rape is worse than stealing, murder is worse than rape. Insulting the op in that way because you think he should be spending his time doing more relevant humanitarian things is silly, maybe he is already doing them. I'm sure there are things that one can do to contribute to a fairer and better society in China, but for the average citizen I would say there's not much. Perhaps the op is an emissary for a human rights organization though, I'm not sure. Please don't talk about fallacies when you compare killing animals to rape, genocide and slavery, trust me you don't want to go there. You're completely twisting what Im saying, I never said that they should be allowed to do whatever they want. They're poor, so they shouldn't be held to the morals we hold people in our society, when they're basically living off our demand of fur, it's simply not fair. The fact that what they do is morally reprehensible to us is besides the point. Im not saying that we shouldn't try and put a stop to it, but this is the wrong way to do it when we are a big part of the problem. You can't put a stop to supply when there's a demand. (Surprise surprise people are still dealing drugs all over the world.) The big problem here is that the OP wants people to sacrifice something to adhere to our code of morality, when we reached that code of morality through a completely different way. Nobody told us to stop killing animals if we needed their fur, and if they did we wouldn't have cared until we could afford a better alternative. Im not making an argument for apathy here, I just think the OP has a very short sighted stance on the subject. A nut? Yesterday I was just like you not giving a shit about animal rights until a friend linked me to the video. I thought it was pretty disturbing so I had two choices: 1) sign the petition (free, takes 15 seconds) 2) do nothing so I signed the petition and showed the video to other people Crazy! Wow Im so surprised you haven't given this an inch of thought. Arguments based on outrage is the #3 most used fallacy by the way. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 02 2009 05:34 anderoo wrote: A nut? Yesterday I was just like you not giving a shit about animal rights until a friend linked me to the video. I thought it was pretty disturbing so I had two choices: 1) sign the petition (free, takes 15 seconds) 2) do nothing so I signed the petition and showed the video to other people Crazy! i was actually thinking about PETA | ||
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
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