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we need new heroes, not these emotionless robots whose sole robotic purpose is to use their cybernetic fingers and brains to play robot starcraft
what happened to you savior
what happened
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
savior is dead. its over for him. But even when boxer died it was ok cause there we heros that could live up to his name. Now....now there are none.
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Sweden33719 Posts
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
Jaedong.
Jaedong is the last hero. When he dies, there will be dark times for SC.
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United States17042 Posts
We need someone with passion. Plays with passion, not just wins with passion (sorry FBH). We need someone who is dominant, not just for having better mechanics (which they'll need to have to win consistently), but by being risky. We need someone to cheer for, someone to cheer against; essentially, someone who can polarize the community just by winning.
*crosses fingers for a Nada comeback*
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this is why i barely watch games anymore
I didnt know any of the current maps for osl/msl until yesterday
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On October 02 2008 15:25 TheTyranid wrote:
Jaedong.
Jaedong is the last hero. When he dies, there will be dark times for SC.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On October 02 2008 15:26 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
this is why i barely watch games anymore
I didnt know any of the current maps for osl/msl until yesterday
exactly! i was away all summer and basically missed everything eventful...but you know what i found out when i came back? that i hadn't missed anything at all. They say that a hero can save us, im not gonna stand here and waaaaaiiiiittt.
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
On October 02 2008 15:25 FrozenArbiter wrote:
SC2 will be out soon
The sooner it's out, the shittier it'll be. I hope Blizzard take their time to perfect those sub-par graphics so the game can live up to it's name and draw many many new people into the SC world.
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Yeah, I came into BW just when Bisu beat Savior. GOD, it was frustrating to watch him get destroyed by Mind. I don't even want to say dethroned, because he was never on a throne.
"chill if you close this awesome blog i'll stab you" - Can I put this in my threads? I'll give you credit, Kennigit.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Im sorry i feel that would be copyright infringement i cant just go giving my work away
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On October 02 2008 15:26 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
this is why i barely watch games anymore
I didnt know any of the current maps for osl/msl until yesterday
this is so sad but true 
I really miss the old days
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its all bout the benjamins
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the game quality is getting worse
I remember i was so disappointed after watching jaedong vs hwasin bo5 series in arena msl.
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Sydney2287 Posts
On October 02 2008 15:25 FrozenArbiter wrote:
SC2 will be out soon
One can hope.
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as someone new to the scene I feel like people who say this are being selfish
you had your legends, your emperors who dominated game after game, the walls that never falter
we have our chaos, a violent turbulent ocean, where the winner is not guaranteed
you will have your bonjwas in starcraft 2
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On October 02 2008 16:08 anotak wrote:
as someone new to the scene I feel like people who say this are being selfish
you had your legends, your emperors who dominated game after game, the walls that never falter
we have our chaos, a violent turbulent ocean, where the winner is not guaranteed
you will have your bonjwas in starcraft 2
your post actually makes zero sense. Im not saying that new bonjwas suck. IM SAYING THEY DONT FUCKING EXIST
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im worried about sc2 though
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I can romanticize the current pro scene if you really want :O There are tonnes of epic matches still happening. They're just not as focused on being unbeatable in all match ups. In any case, I think right now it's a battle between Flash and Jaedong to decide who will rule the world. Think Nal_Ra vs Savior... Except where both players have an even chance. It's just an epic clash of titans right now...
And fuck, JulyZerg just won his golden mouse... What more do you want? Stop being an old man saying "well back in my day!" And start realising things are about as exciting as they ever were.
The last Savior games I watched I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, just knowing that he might be coming back... I think he almost did too, but fell into old weaknesses in the last game. I hadn't been that excited about a StarCraft match, let alone a trivial qualifier, in a very long time. It was because he was my favourite player. I know in Boxer's games that are coming up in a few minutes, I'll be just as excited. You choose which players to get emotionally attached to; you just have to choose some new ones now. It's difficult right now, considering it's not clear who is the underdog, and who is the champion between Flash and Jaedong, and perhaps other top 10, but if you just stick to one and become emotionally invested in one, you'll find the same excitement at least in their games.
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Still waiting for Bisu to return to his glory days. He made for such exciting games and now half of the time he just throws the game away. It's depressing. -_-
Even the games he wins don't inspire the same thrill that they used to. While a lot of people were like "AHH MUCH IS A PIMP" in Much vs Bisu where Much went 1 base carriers, I thought it was a really boring drawn out game that Bisu was in control of most of the time, that looked kind of close near the end because Much went all in. I'm just not feeling it.
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yeah jaedong comes closest to a "hero" imo. He is just a notch above everyone else when it comes to raw skill. Unfortunately he still isnt nearly as dominant as savior was. I think its because he plays Zerg and it is the hardest to pull off consistent owning with zerg (look at july) due to their fragility and need to change up strats. Thats why saviors dominance was even more impressive to me, he made Zerg look rock solid.
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july's hydra micro vs bisu on that chupung map was pretty art recent game i remember watching
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
i take it all back
BOXER LIVESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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i only know 4 of the people in the power rank. =(
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On October 02 2008 17:18 Kennigit wrote:
i take it all back
BOXER LIVESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
boxer will always be here moron
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Hmmm. Boxer for #1 on power rank.
after today, boxer build will be standard play vs z.
1 rax fake bunker rush into fast valkyries into SK Terran + Nukes.
EZ Win.
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On October 02 2008 17:39 LightRailCoyote wrote:
Hmmm. Boxer for #1 on power rank.
after today, boxer build will be standard play vs z.
1 rax fake bunker rush into fast valkyries into SK Terran + Nukes.
EZ Win.
As a Zerg player, I'm already having nightmares.
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All starcraft needs is Boxer. He is fucking amazing. Once he gets back into a rigorous training regimen he will rise tot he top and progaming will be exciting again.
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Boxer has to make the Power Rank, serious. I mean, has anyone ever witnessed a better definition of power than Gom day 4?
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
On October 02 2008 17:18 Kennigit wrote:
i take it all back
BOXER LIVESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word.
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While Boxer was pretty fuckwin (pardon my french) on GOM today, you can't help but think that if he tried that on anyone else that can actually play the game, it would have probably failed.
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another revolution would be awesome
from BoXer Micro to oov Macro to...
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KENNIGIT. I THINK IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO STEP UP TO THE MONITOR. YOU CANNOT HIDE YOUR POWER ANYMORE. Kennigit bonjwa ya!?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Actually Kennigit... as far as I am concerned (i only care about the OSL), the OSL has kinda returned to normal and we have the same few people in each starleague. Sure its not the players we used to know and love, they are the new legends which we will hopefully fall in love with over the coming years/months. Unfortunately this new gen is shitting all over the old traditions
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Jaedong isn't the hero. He won't win these SL's because there are too many good players. I think the hero you want back is the original hero, BoxeR.
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oh man, boxer embarasses some frightened noob on gom and people go apeshit and start rambling about him becoming next bonjwa. i almost want boxer to be eliminated sooner than later now so people stop posting dumb nonsense and get real again.
still i want him to go far cus i, like everyone love boxer, i just dont defy logic and rationalism out of fanboyism.
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Calgary25969 Posts
SC2 will not be out soon.
Bisu is a faggot.
Flash is a faggot.
FUCKING DO IT KWANRO
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Calgary25969 Posts
On October 03 2008 00:12 damenmofa wrote:
oh man, boxer embarasses some frightened noob on gom and people go apeshit and start rambling about him becoming next bonjwa. i almost want boxer to be eliminated sooner than later now so people stop posting dumb nonsense and get real again.
still i want him to go far cus i, like everyone love boxer, i just dont defy logic and rationalism out of fanboyism.
Just end your life now, seriously.
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On October 03 2008 00:24 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 00:12 damenmofa wrote:
oh man, boxer embarasses some frightened noob on gom and people go apeshit and start rambling about him becoming next bonjwa. i almost want boxer to be eliminated sooner than later now so people stop posting dumb nonsense and get real again.
still i want him to go far cus i, like everyone love boxer, i just dont defy logic and rationalism out of fanboyism. Just end your life now, seriously.
sorry i am kind of a homo faber
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Everyone is complaining about this but I dont get it. I just think you guys are growing out of the entire "esports" thing too be honest.
The best players the last year had just as high win percentage as the best players 3-4 years ago. (And that's while playing MORE games)
The games of 2005-6 were not more varied and exiting than the ones we have now, no they really weren't
I think that when people look back and say "things were soo much better back then" what they are really looking back at is their long lost passion.
The game is still changing, the game is still evolving, if you don't see it I think it is because you do not care anymore.
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Did Kennigit tell dudes who practice 24/7 that they have no passion ?
Charisma they lack, sure.
But passion? ;p
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On October 03 2008 03:17 MYM.Testie wrote:
Did Kennigit tell dudes who practice 24/7 that they have no passion ?
Charisma they lack, sure.
But passion? ;p
I meant kennigits' and companys' passion doh, not the progamers' 
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On October 03 2008 03:17 MYM.Testie wrote:
Did Kennigit tell dudes who practice 24/7 that they have no passion ?
Charisma they lack, sure.
But passion? ;p
Addiction != passion. 
Happy that Boxer won but let's face it his opponent (actually all of ACE's opponents today, except maybe Violet who's a bit more dangerous than the other no-names) was trash. Boxer probably realized that soon into the game, and then used this chance to do some crazy stuff because he knows that everyone wants to see Boxer do these things. It was like free advertising for him.
If his opponent had been better, Boxer couldn't have done it anymore (or he would have lost horribly).
It's like Mondragon doing that ling burrow rush vs. that Terran in that one TL Attack episode. Funny, but really not amazing at all - it is to be expected that the much better player can do such a thing and win with it.
edit: Or a higher level example: Hwasin using nukes vs Testie.
In any case, wake me up when Boxer wins vs. a good player (especially if he uses a crazy build with success too in *that* case).
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On October 03 2008 03:21 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 03:17 MYM.Testie wrote:
Did Kennigit tell dudes who practice 24/7 that they have no passion ?
Charisma they lack, sure.
But passion? ;p I meant kennigits' and companys' passion doh, not the progamers'
You're right. I retired. Incontrol is in charge gogo.
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On October 03 2008 18:06 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 03:21 KlaCkoN wrote:On October 03 2008 03:17 MYM.Testie wrote:
Did Kennigit tell dudes who practice 24/7 that they have no passion ?
Charisma they lack, sure.
But passion? ;p I meant kennigits' and companys' passion doh, not the progamers' You're right. I retired. Incontrol is in charge gogo.
Lolol No I didn't mean it that way ~~
You obviously still pour your heart and soul into this site and its projects, which I really respect you for.
What I meant was that you perhaps don't enjoy starcraft as much anymore, because well you don't enjoy starcraft as much, NOT because the games are getting more booring or the players more equal. Because none is really true I think.
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Isn't this the old dilemma you always feel when "thinking back in nostalgia"?
Let's compare this with your favourite game: I started playing games on the PSX with Final Fantasy VII and ever since it has been my absolute favourite among all other parts. I couldn't enjoy the others as much and with every sequel I thought "Oh man, why can't they capture "the magic" of FFVII again in another game?". But that's just my own, personal, subjective "magic", because I played it at an age when I was able to invest 100% of my emotions into such a game, plus it was my first experience with an RPG of such epic proportions. Therefore it set my standard of what I considered "good" and everything else was not necessarily bad, but couldn't reach my expectations.
I have a good friend who "missed" FFVII and started playing the series with FFVIII and he values it over all the other parts. I convinced him to give FFVII a try and after finishing it (he was 20 at that time) he was like: "Yeah it's cool, I liked it, but I still find FFVIII better".
Oh yeah, long winded examples with a bit of gossip. What I want to say is: It's coming down to when you were really able to invest all of your passion and emotions into an activity. Your brain memorizes this heartfelt experience and nothing afterwards can compare to it - because you grew out of it.
I still see your point.. 1-2 years ago there was a more fascinating rivalry between the different bonjwa contenders, respectively the ones already established and you would ask: "Who will dethrone Savior? Is Bisu really the new Bonjwa? .." etc. etc.
But yeah, there will still be people who come into the pro scene today and will maybe in 3-5 years say: "Oh, nothing compares to the years of 2008/2009 - where is my Best? Where is my fantasy? I miss the good old days".
I think atm there are a lot of players with great potential who haven't yet shown what they are made of. Let's wait for the rising stars ; ) (this is inspired by the play I saw today of fantasy.. really impressive)
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SC2 will suck, and pro-scene is as exciting as ever, imo.
Flash is great, Jaedong is amazing, Boxer is still around doing weird stuff, FBH is funny like shit, Savior's game as entertaining cuz you always think that "this time, maaaaaaybe" and he loses anyway, Best is boring and you like when he loses, etc etc etc.
We have new generation of players, like Leta or Fantasy, who will do good I guess.
etc etc etc.
Ok, I regret Reach, I regret Nal'Ra, and Boxer at his prime, but well... The heroic times of starcraft are over. Doesn't mean it sucks now.
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On October 03 2008 22:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:
SC2 will suck, and pro-scene is as exciting as ever, imo.
Flash is great, Jaedong is amazing, Boxer is still around doing weird stuff, FBH is funny like shit, Savior's game as entertaining cuz you always think that "this time, maaaaaaybe" and he loses anyway, Best is boring and you like when he loses, etc etc etc.
We have new generation of players, like Leta or Fantasy, who will do good I guess.
etc etc etc.
Ok, I regret Reach, I regret Nal'Ra, and Boxer at his prime, but well... The heroic times of starcraft are over. Doesn't mean it sucks now.
I'd say it's gotten a lot less exciting for me. I don't think it's very entertaining to watch these macro-games, and watching those most recent boxer games was really entertaining. I don't care that boxer was playing a shittier player, but I was Entertained for the first time in a while.
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Level of play is so high today that no one can dominate. And this is good. More high level games. Less predictable outcome, etc.
Also, Savior doesn't have any more charisma then some other progamers.
I don't understand this topic. If this is how you feel, just stop watching and leave. It seems to be just irrational nostalgia.
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On October 03 2008 22:21 anderoo wrote:
[I'd say it's gotten a lot less exciting for me. I don't think it's very entertaining to watch these macro-games, and watching those most recent boxer games was really entertaining. I don't care that boxer was playing a shittier player, but I was Entertained for the first time in a while.
Oh yeah, now everything is macro's fault
macro this , macro that...
oovs fault, starcraft boring , blabberblabber, nah fackoff
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On October 02 2008 23:09 Narrator wrote:
Jaedong isn't the hero. He won't win these SL's because there are too many good players. I think the hero you want back is the original hero, BoxeR.
Lets not mention that Jaedong > Boxer 2-0 so far...
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I think the older players have a bit more passion for SC over the players of today. Midas I believe has the most passion out of the OSL group right now. We actually hear stories about him trying to win that OSL titles that most of us think he deserves.
It just seems nowadays teenagers can just step into the programing scene and hope to become first to gain a bit of fame and that is it. I think having an extra league now makes it harder for each player to practice hard for their matches, and thus perhaps less quality and less epic games. Sure, macro seems like the game play of today. But it really puzzles me to why they won't create maps that are less macro oriented, where more micro is involved. We just saw Boxer own old school style because new players do not know how to handle it.
However, I do miss those days of Boxer, Oov, Nada, Savior etc. They were all scary in their prime. But now we have to adapt to the revolutionized Starcraft and the next generation Starcraft. We may not see it now, but I believe we may able to see it in the future. Who really knows? Maybe Best will end up being the first Protoss with 3 titles? Maybe Midas will win two OSL titles in a row. Starcraft is getting really unpredictable now and we seem to have an emotional attachment to it now. Be it happiness, sadness, frustration, or just simple joy for the game and the pro-scene we love (or currently hate).
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The reason why there aren't any true "bonjwa"s currently is that the level of competition has risen to such a high point. I mean if you've got 100+ serious progamers out there practicing Starcraft over 10 hours a day, you can't expect 1 out of those hundreds to completely dominate over the rest.
You know how they say that success is 90% hard work and 10% talent? Well, that 10% won't give you that much separation from all of the other dedicated progamers nowadays.
Of course there are the statistical anomalies (e.g. Usain Bolt), but when you get to that level of competition, those anomalies are very rare.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
fingers crossed on fantasy, the terran canata should have been
fuck he's good
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On October 03 2008 23:32 Ki_Do wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2008 22:21 anderoo wrote:
[I'd say it's gotten a lot less exciting for me. I don't think it's very entertaining to watch these macro-games, and watching those most recent boxer games was really entertaining. I don't care that boxer was playing a shittier player, but I was Entertained for the first time in a while. Oh yeah, now everything is macro's fault macro this , macro that... oovs fault, starcraft boring , blabberblabber, nah fackoff
When'd I say macro ruined SC? I just find micro-oriented games to be more entertaining to watch than macro oriented games.
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On October 02 2008 15:19 Kennigit wrote:
We need a new bonjwa.
If you ask me nicely, i'l be your precious new bonjawa, deal?
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On October 02 2008 22:29 Plexa wrote:Actually Kennigit... as far as I am concerned (i only care about the OSL), the OSL has kinda returned to normal and we have the same few people in each starleague. Sure its not the players we used to know and love, they are the new legends which we will hopefully fall in love with over the coming years/months. Unfortunately this new gen is shitting all over the old traditions
Got write some FEs about the new legends so we have a reason to care about them. :p
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On October 02 2008 15:19 Kennigit wrote:
We need a new Federer.
fixed ^^, maybe we'll get new sc2 bonjwas
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jaedong.
heres hoping to stork or firebat hero (doubt that with his abysmall tvp.
lomo to win 3 osl with gosu wraith micro
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I feel the same, I keep hoping for a new bonjwa to show up. It makes things so much more interesting when there is this one player that dominates everyone else and becomes this massive obstacle that everyone else has to react to. We haven't really had a player that is just has the same kind of overwhelming "invincibility" that someone like Savior had.
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It won't happen.
When StarCraft 2 comes out, it'll happen.
The problem is that there isn't much more room for the metagame to grow.
Everytime a bonjwa came about they changed the metagame completely. Iloveoov changed it to monstrous macro, etc.
The only thing separating players now is APM and macro ability.
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On October 06 2008 10:48 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2008 22:29 Plexa wrote:Actually Kennigit... as far as I am concerned (i only care about the OSL), the OSL has kinda returned to normal and we have the same few people in each starleague. Sure its not the players we used to know and love, they are the new legends which we will hopefully fall in love with over the coming years/months. Unfortunately this new gen is shitting all over the old traditions Got write some FEs about the new legends so we have a reason to care about them. :p
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I think a bonjwa is not so much about the talent as the attitude.
Look at sAviOr in GOMTV3 and EVER 2007. He still had the skills--all right, so his ZvT is a bit suspect--but after the mental beating from Bisu in GOMTV1 and fbh in GOMTV2 he no longer had the aura of 'I keel you, I eat your heart.'
(EVER 2007 - so close to beating PvZ imba Bisu on PvZ imba Katrina . . . T_T )
EDIT: Gah, forgot my point. So we could have all this 60%+ in all MUs progamers, but we need one to exude the 'Bisu? Flash? Lol I eat you alive' aura.
Jaedong is a nice little kid, excellent player, but he doesn't have the attitude. He's . . . a nice little kid.
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Oh, Felagund... I think I remember you from StarEdit.net
Savior's ZvT was never suspect... He raped Nada, Boxer, and Iris in important series. Maybe raped isn't the best word, but he looked really, really strong, on a lot of maps that were said to be hurtful to Zerg.
Bisu is just a strong harasser... His one build wonder sky rocketed him to fame, and his PvP against Stork was epic, but he's never been an overall strong player... People just saw him rape Savior and Stork in quick succession, and assumed he was the next big thing.
Jaedong has tonnes of personality to make him great. His nick name is "Legend Killer" ffs.
It's just gonna take some cleverly written articles to get TL on the sides of the new players of BW. As long as there is a divide between the S class (Flash, Jaedong especially ZvZ, Best's PvP, Fantasy's TvT), and the A class, there's always going to be players you're expecting to win, and exciting upsets. We only need some good writer's to romanticise the trials of these players.
I think once we see a single player figure out all the new maps, and 'revolutionize' StarCraft again, you'll find people flocking to him as "the S-class player with attitude." Because frankly, I don't see anything particularly different about the way Bisu acts in relation to every other pro-gamer.
I love new maps...
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On October 06 2008 14:07 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
I think once we see a single player figure out all the new maps, and 'revolutionize' StarCraft again, you'll find people flocking to him as "the S-class player with attitude." Because frankly, I don't see anything particularly different about the way Bisu acts in relation to every other pro-gamer.
I love new maps...
Are you kidding? He selected probably the strongest terran at the time (Hwasin) as insurance, then proceeded to humiliate him with scouts (even though the series was pretty close imo). He proxy 2-gated in some shitty p's own main.
Although other bmish players like fbh and gogo also do stuff like that, they don't have the results to make theirr little displays dominating in the same fashion.
Sure he seems like every other progamer now, but thats cos he's playing pretty far below his potential, there is really no reason to show the tude, it would just make him look like a tard if he did it now. But now way he did not have that aura in his prime!
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jaedong is my bonjwa even if he isn't a real bonjwa >_>
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I think if Jaedong wins the GSL or MSL again he officially becomes contender for bonjwa, no?
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Flash... -_-. You were supposed to win GSL, OSL, and MSL last season and be the super bonjwa. Then Lux, Jaedong and ForGG smashed you.....
And now you play like a lazy punk! I hate you. You're still the best in my heart though
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EPT
