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I am pretty confident that most of TL.net users are skeptics. By skeptics I mean, not believing in a religion, ghosts, tarot cards, mind reading, talking with the dead, UFOs or really anything that is unproven or of superstitious nature. Now I don't believe in any of the above things I listed, I really only believe something if it can be proven or if I can experience it myself, and with this is mind, I had a discussion earlier.
I was talking with my Dad, who is skeptical of some things, but not others. He doesn't believe in any religion or deity, but he does think there is credibility to ghosts and UFOs, the thing we were talking about were tarot cards. He was telling me how a few years ago (!important point) he went to someone who did the whole tarot card thing. He was skeptical and didn't believe it, but that's why he tried it out. In his story, he says all he started with was a simple question, which was; what can I expect in the next year? According to him, during the reading of the cards and such, the lady correctly informed my Dad of how his Mother was sick, in the hospital and had her leg amputated, which is all true. She correctly said about how his sister was having marital problems, discussed the personality traits and actions of her husband and so forth. The lady also mentioned that he was married (he took his ring off before heading to do this, btw), that he had two children, the first was a girl, where level of school she was at and that I wasn't doing well in school, but that I would pick it up in Gr. 12. This story is the basis for my Dad believing in this now.
I was trying to logically counter his points with arguments such as:
a ) It was a long time ago and I think he is perhaps forgetting whether he was giving subtle gestures or hints as to when she was on to something or when she wasn't far off.
b ) Since he is telling this story a few years after the fact (hes mentioned it before but I only vaguely remember it, and I cannot remember any details) I said that since he admits he believes in accuracy of tarot cards, it's possible that hes subconsciously omitting or bending the actual true story, so that it jives with his new belief.
Anyways, his counter points to most of my arguments were that he went in, asked the simple question (which he said she provided after he couldn't think of anything to ask) and then she proceeded to list off a bunch of things after he shuffled the deck and so forth. I said if this was the real story that it's rather amazing, but since I can't get him to admit he maybe pointed her in the right direction; or that he answers were a bit vague and maybe he filled in a few details for her, the only explanation I can come up with is that it's just been so long that he forgets exactly what happened and hes unintentionally omitting important points that could help my arguments.
My question to you guys is, can you think of any explanations or ways in which people can do this? I am aware of hot and cold reading and the shit that Sylvia Browne and John Edwards do, but according to my father, he didn't have to answer anything for her to come up with this. I am trying to think of logical explanations so I don't have to conclude that he is unintentionally or intentionally lying.
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She very may well be able to do it, and it's just a human ability science isn't able to explain yet, but that doesn't mean science won't one day explain it. Nothing is supernatural.
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United States24740 Posts
Did he drop by unannounced, or was it scheduled ahead of time?
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I see what your saying swami, and I am not saying it isn't a possibility, but I am first and foremost trying to think of logical explanations without resorting to:
A ) The story was an unintentional (omitted truths) or intentional lie
B ) The lady is legit.
@Micronesia, just asked: appointment.
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If this lady is not legit:
It is possible she reads him through facial expressions, voice tones etc. VERY well. And as she is explaining her part of the story, she can somehow differentiate things about how he reacts to make a story...
Option B:
She's a dark archon. Mind control -> steal memory.
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I used to take jehova witness classes with my mom, and the way they'd explain it is that those ladies, or fortune tellers are actually possessed by devils and then have the ladies as puppets to tell you your future. However if you completely disregard the fortuneteller's stories the spirits won't interrupt you with your life, if you do take it into consideration the spirits will make what the fortuneteller say to be true. Its sorta creepy now that i think of it...
I had an uncle that once went to one of those palm readers, and she said that he'll die the at age 25, and if he lives past age 25 he can live over 100 years. What happened was that he actually did die at 25 while driving a train he accidentally opened the wrong door and ejected himself out of the vehicle as it was moving...
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The only reason I don't completely cast this type of thing aside (I'm quite a skeptic myself) is that a similar thing happened in my family as what happened with your dad, Salv. When my family was vacationing in another state many years ago, my mother decided (as a joke) to go see one of these people completely spontaneously, and this woman could name so many deceased people from our family on first shot, no guessing, no "starts with a j... hmm.. john, or jack or something" - none of that bullshit. She went in for a laugh and came out spooked as hell.
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United States1865 Posts
Two questions, if you dont mind:
#1 - Did she predict my having sex with your mother? We tried to keep that on the downlow from your father so if she predicted that I would say she could be the real deal.
#2 - This question is linked to the first one, but not really about tarot: Do you think your father would mind too terribly if perhaps I "repeated the offense"? I know theres a social stigma that frowns upon it, but I really know your mom would enjoy it and I'm sure you could talk him into allowing it. Thanks in advance!
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On October 01 2008 10:48 Archaic wrote:
If this lady is not legit:
It is possible she reads him through facial expressions, voice tones etc. VERY well. And as she is explaining her part of the story, she can somehow differentiate things about how he reacts to make a story...
Option B:
She's a dark archon. Mind control -> steal memory.
I also made that argument, but his counter point was that he went into this as a skeptic, so he shouldn't have hinted her in any way until after she had already been correct about some personal things.
Didn't think of option B 
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On October 01 2008 11:01 Atrioc wrote:
Two questions, if you dont mind:
Not at all, go right ahead.
On October 01 2008 11:01 Atrioc wrote:
#1 - Did she predict my having sex with your mother? We tried to keep that on the downlow from your father so if she predicted that I would say she could be the real deal.
I'm regretting saying, 'go right ahead' right now, I gotta' say. Your other question?
On October 01 2008 11:01 Atrioc wrote:
#2 - This question is linked to the first one, but not really about tarot: Do you think your father would mind too terribly if perhaps I "repeated the offense"? I know theres a social stigma that frowns upon it, but I really know your mom would enjoy it and I'm sure you could talk him into allowing it. Thanks in advance!
You know both questions were both about the exact same thing there I noticed, each one about doing it with my mom, I see why you said it was linked, good call. As for your post, let me answer your question, with a question; you 'ought to be ashamed of yourself!
P.S Read the small print under this post, it's a tidbit from the daily news.
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You should try it, refrain from giving her any information and see what happens.
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On October 01 2008 11:06 xenero wrote:
You should try it, refrain from giving her any information and see what happens.
My dad suggested this as well, I may as well, I'l post the results if I do!
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On October 01 2008 11:10 Mindcrime wrote:
UFOs exist.
Oh, thanks for clearing that up.
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so you'll stop using the acronym incorrectly now?
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There are only 2 plausible explanations:
a) your dad is talking crap
b) it's magic
Guess.
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United States24740 Posts
On October 01 2008 10:42 Salv wrote:
@Micronesia, just asked: appointment.
That's most likely how she knew stuff she shouldn't have known. Used the time to do research.
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Perhaps Micro, but according to the story, she said things about my grandmother and such that you couldn't just look up. It's possible to find out occupation, address (therefore perhaps level of income and quality of living; based on good neighbourhood etc.) but it's at least a possibility.
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You could check out Penn and Teller's show, Bullshit. They do a lot in debunking this type of stuff. I'm pretty sure they did an episode on specifically ESP/Tarot cards/mind readers and that type of stuff.
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United States24740 Posts
On October 01 2008 12:04 Salv wrote:
Perhaps Micro, but according to the story, she said things about my grandmother and such that you couldn't just look up. It's possible to find out occupation, address (therefore perhaps level of income and quality of living; based on good neighbourhood etc.) but it's at least a possibility.
Social research... not just paper research hehe.
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i always wanted to ask something random like
Who won the last 5 OSL? and the last 5 MSL?
if she can guess, then i'd want to watch her play idra on TLAttack
"oh, you mean that computer game starcraft? yes, my son is a progamer, i helped tarot his way into the big leagues"
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United States22883 Posts
My guess is your father got lulled into the moment and kind of forgot about what actually went on. Psychics just say generalities and the victim becomes drawn into the experience and feeds them information on their own. Often times, they're the ones that come to conclusions, not the "reader."
If your father had blatantly lied to the woman instead of trying to be truthful, she probably would've been lead off course to some bullshit story about pinetar and goose feathers.
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I personally dont believe in mysticsm, religion,ghosts or anything of the sort. It's been viewed upon that most of these "fortune tellers" or "ghost whisperers" are nothing more than people that are really good at manipulating other people, in most cases using cold reading. The logical answer is that any of this is not real, but the human mind is pretty fragile and can be easily decieved into believing things are real when they are not.
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btw, maybe they're hypnotists. we all know that's real, so when you're in a dark room by yourself, they're hypnotizing you and you come out like "OMFG$@%#$%@!!!"
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If that is true, it's amazing!
BTw. That might have something to do with precognitive dreams... though I'm not really sure.
I've actually had a couple of dreams where I dreamt a van would crush a bird and it actually happened few days after when I was in it :S. I'm not a believer and don't usually swallow things that I haven't experienced or proven before, but I'm definitely not the kind of narrow minded skeptic that thinks everything that escapes mainstream science is mumbo-jumbo.
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if they could really predict stuff like that, then they should already know their own futures... and then, can't they just change it so that they have perfect lives, since they "know the future..."
if they really had such power, they'd be rich or not working anymore because they don't need to. Even if it's not about money, they shouldn't have any problems because they can foresee them and prevent them.
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EPT
