errr...i dont think anyone should expect these guys to be working at Artosis/Gentho level. Theres just such a huge experience difference its not even realistic.

We can certainly improve but I dont think we will have the retrospective years of experience that Artosis has in particular.

Diggity

United States806 Posts

January 24 2008 18:51 GMT

#22

Side note: Is there any reason that Ascension isn't featured on the main page?

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

January 24 2008 19:16 GMT

#23

cuz they have no relation with TL

Asta

Germany3491 Posts

January 24 2008 23:00 GMT

#24

I've written so many postings on that topic years ago, when the first commentaries came around. I couldn't stand watching anybody commentate on a game who knew less about it than me. But I loved any commentaries by those who were better than me, no matter how their style of commentating was.
And after I complained a hundred times that people shouldn't commentate on games if they don't have a clue, I realized there were many people who like those comments and maybe learn something from them.
I mean what are commentators going to do? They can't just get better from one day to the next. And why would they stop commentating as long as there are people who listen to their commentaries?

Of course, myself, I only listen to commentaries of people who are good and they are very rare. But that's not the fault of the active (newbie) commentators.
Rather than criticizing them you should encourage good players to also do commentaries.

naventus

United States1339 Posts

January 25 2008 04:45 GMT

#25

The issue is not how much work they put into commentating, it's their shitty attitude to understanding their own failings that disgusts everyone here.

No one would be supporting them if all they were acting the same way, say if they wrote up a post about how great 7 pool was, and kept on defending it.

Nyovne

Netherlands19141 Posts

January 25 2008 11:58 GMT

#26

God too much emo in this blog

Nyovne

Netherlands19141 Posts

January 25 2008 11:59 GMT

#27

On January 25 2008 13:45 naventus wrote:
The issue is not how much work they put into commentating, it's their shitty attitude to understanding their own failings that disgusts everyone here.

No one would be supporting them if all they were acting the same way, say if they wrote up a post about how great 7 pool was, and kept on defending it.

Oh what he said and more of it.

Fuel to fire ROAR.

Sadir

Vatican City State1176 Posts

January 25 2008 12:02 GMT

#28

I don't get it
ok you don't like these commentaries, that's ok
but why the hell would u just bm diggity? what's the point in telling him?
ther are actually ppl like me who like them, so leave us alone
it's a goddamn internet forum, you can simply scroll over and don't read it, just ignor him and don't post at all, as simple as that

Try

United States1293 Posts

January 26 2008 02:29 GMT

#29

On January 25 2008 03:02 Kennigit wrote:

Show nested quote +

errr...i dont think anyone should expect these guys to be working at Artosis/Gentho level. Theres just such a huge experience difference its not even realistic.

Personally, I think these guys do a better job than Gentho and Artosis in Micromedia, who just basically state the obvious and never go into indepth discussion of strategy of all (even though I'm certain they are capable of it). Most of the stuff is just: he killed his army, he's ahead, or he just lost abunch of drones, thats bad.

FieryBalrog

United States1381 Posts

January 26 2008 02:51 GMT

#30

On January 25 2008 13:45 naventus wrote:
The issue is not how much work they put into commentating, it's their shitty attitude to understanding their own failings that disgusts everyone here.

What shitty attitude? I've seen nothing but good manner from all three of the people in question. And what disgust? Stop putting words in everyones mouths. They acknowledge their weaknesses. What do you want, them to apologize to you for the deep offense they have caused you? Because thats the shitty attitude you're bringing to the table.

On January 25 2008 13:45 naventus wrote:
No one would be supporting them if all they were acting the same way, say if they wrote up a post about how great 7 pool was, and kept on defending it.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

naventus

United States1339 Posts

January 26 2008 03:18 GMT

#31

FieryBalrog: Joined June 2007.

Enough said. Go ahead and suck their dicks, you are too easy to troll anyways. I'm done wasting my time.

ahrara_

Afghanistan1715 Posts

March 03 2008 01:30 GMT

#32

Can I give my 2 cents? A week late, but still.

I just started listening to the commentaries today. Diggity and Klatz are both terrific speakers and do a quality job. Their starcraft knowledge isn't up to par, and even I noticed some glaring errors, and I'm not very good, but it's better than watching in the original korean. I totally understand why people are upset about their poor analysis -- no one likes being lectured on something by someone who knows a lot less.

That said, there is a difference between being constructive and being critical. Attitude matters. I feel like you posted your first critique with the intention of discouraging the commentators, not to help them improve. You can't really expect someone not to get defensive when you say

Ok, I'm gonna stop at 64 because I don't see any point in continuing, I'm not here to teach people starcraft the point I'm making is merely that you know a lot less about the game than you think, and you do say a lot of bad stuff in your commentaries. I hope I have done enough to convince you.

That's just a bad attitude, and needlessly confrontational.

I know this post sounds like I'm needlessly reviving a dead issue. But that's not the case, entirely. I sincerely believe you've changed your attitude and you're trying to help. I really appreciate that, and I hope you continue to work with the commentators to help them improve. I get annoyed with their errors also, and want to see their analysis improve. Moreover, I wanted to encourage the commentators to keep up their work. They do a good job, put in lots of work, and make VODs way more enjoyable. Finally, I wanted to make the point that when someone spends several hours every week contributing something a majority of the community appreciates, comments like

Yes, the commentators absolutely blow in terms of knowledge. They seriously make your ears bleed, the live reports of a couple years ago were like 100x better.

What really pisses me off is that these amateurs attract new gamers to the scene who actually believe they are pro.

The fact is their work is somewhat of an indication of the decay of this forum. Like most places on the internet, the original community of posters has largely dwindled - and is mostly supplanted by a huge flood of new and theorycrafting new players. It used to be places like SClegacy forums that house them - but as those have largely died out, TL has taken most of them in. There's nothing to be done about this process - it's largely outside of what we can control, but it doesn't mean older people can't be resentful.

etc. make you look like a huge asshole, that last one especially. I have no doubt that these posters could do a better job with commentary. You know why they don't get kudos? Because they DON'T. They don't put in the hours, they don't contribute. They just sit back and moan. I'm consistently amazed at how willing people are to resort to being critical, snobby, little bitches on the internet when in real life they'd just keep their comments to themselves, because if they opened their mouths, they'd be labeled morons.

Edit: I don't like censoring parts of my own post, but I'm realizing that most of this wasn't neccessary. Mostly I just wanted to call out some people for being assholes and encourage the commentators. I hope you realize I'm not trying to call you out Zulu. I appreciate your efforts at helping the commentators, and hope you keep it up.