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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
you're happy your friend died. what the fuck is wrong with you | ||
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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
On November 30 2007 15:22 IdrA wrote: see? that is whats fucked up about religion. you're happy your friend died. what the fuck is wrong with you Obviously we're sad she's not around anymore. But we're also happy because we know that death is not the end, and that life here on earth is temporary anyway, everyone has to go someday. There's always hope. She would want us to be happy too, because she knew this. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
JesusCruxRH: I am really sorry to hear about your friend. Wow, it's just horrible. I'd like to say that I *greatly* admire you and the others of your church for praying for forgiveness for the killer. It is amazing how often compassion and forgiveness and acceptance can transform evil into good. There is profound wisdom in that particular teaching from Jesus. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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KH1031
United States862 Posts
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On November 30 2007 16:28 IdrA wrote: idiotic beliefs shouldnt get a free pass just because theyre religious. yea, but as far as not being sad when someone dies, most people react the same whether they are religious or not. I mean, I personally feel sad, but I also spend a lot of time reflecting on my memories of that person. I feel pretty happy while doing this too. I obviously understand the dangers in "decreasing" the value of life (suicide bombers, extc.), but I am just talking about the emotions people may feel after a death. Why should people feel nothing but sorrow when someone dies?:o | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
but he is actually happy she is dead, happy she is gone and her life is over. not happy because hes reflecting on the good times. thats just sick. | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On November 30 2007 16:45 IdrA wrote: ya i understand that, how some people treat funerals as parties and remembering all the good times with the person. but he is actually happy she is dead, happy she is gone and her life is over. not happy because hes reflecting on the good times. thats just sick. i agree, but in this specific situation, it is merely a harmless afterthought. You could always attack his religious belief at a more tactful time too, instead of in his blog about his friend dying;( Or make your own blog post citing this one. just saying;x | ||
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KH1031
United States862 Posts
Idra you are imposing your own set of values onto someone else. I do not find that appreciative especially when you flat out trolls someone else's blog. . . | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
But, to each his own I guess. RIP, whatever that means. In defense of Irda (because I know where he's coming from), this is the best possible place to respond to a post that begot that particular reaction. Why should he be required to cite this post in a blog of his own, even given the circumstances? It's not like RH showed any less remorse for the victim than Irda did, afterall. | ||
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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
I can understand what you're saying, that if you don't believe in religion then you wouldn't accept an afterlife. The purpose of this post was pretty much just a reminder, like Peter wrote, to live good lives. A reminder mostly for myself. As soon as we stop caring that's when we become inhuman. We Christians pray for the murderer because we see him as family, and we pray he can find it in his heart to say sorry to her. Don't mistake my silence for insensitivity - FYI she had been missing for a whole week and we were worried sick. I don't speak on behalf of all Christians when I say this though but I'm not devastated. Jesus taught us not to get too attached to the world, despite all the wonderful things that are here, like friends and family, the place they truly reside are not on this earth. I'm not grieving because I believe I'll see her again someday, and that she is with the One who loves her most. I didn't mention this before but she was also deaf, and even just from reading the responses to this thread I know she needed more protection from the world than the rest of us, and we couldn't always provide it (for example, she would get hurt really easily if someone told her: "what the fuck is wrong with you", simply for being a Christian, when she has never done anything mean to others and was always a good friend). I'm not trying to judge you Idra, but in the future perhaps it would be better to respond like: "I don't believe in God so she's gone forever, it sucks but that's just the way it is". You'd get your point across without being mean, otherwise you're no better than those Christians who protest at gay funerals. | ||
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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
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ZoDD
Canada309 Posts
i don't believe in heaven but I'm sure theres peace in death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine The brain releases this and causes hallucinations when you die or are about to die, so I guess you can experience something a little out of this world too, even if you don't care for religion. | ||
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
On November 30 2007 15:22 IdrA wrote: see? that is whats fucked up about religion. you're happy your friend died. what the fuck is wrong with you I agree with you, it's really depressing. But, whatever floats your boat, sorry your friend got killed. | ||
Chill
Calgary25977 Posts
On November 30 2007 19:42 JesusCruxRH wrote: There was an episode of Boston Public where one of the teachers started up a suicide club, where students could come in to discuss their emotional issues after school. One of them later died, and the parents were angry because the teacher didn't show up at his funeral. At the end of the episode he was in his office late at night by himself crying. What? I think this confirms my suspicion that you have no idea what the fuck is going on. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32046 Posts
On November 30 2007 23:05 Snet wrote: I agree with you, it's really depressing. But, whatever floats your boat, sorry your friend got killed. On December 01 2007 00:08 Chill wrote: What? I think this confirms my suspicion that you have no idea what the fuck is going on. these sum it up best. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
My condolences for your lost friend. | ||
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Folca
2235 Posts
On November 30 2007 23:05 Snet wrote: I agree with you, it's really depressing. But, whatever floats your boat, sorry your friend got killed. yeah, this is a huge conflict between religion and logic.. Religion makes you think that way, and logic makes you think another isnt life hard that way? which way must we follow? the way we THINK is best? humanity is confusing, and lost.. (this sounds really depressing, but it is really true) What can we do? JesusCruxRH is trying to make the best out of it, while Snet and IdrA are mourning over deaths lost in this world both ways are very understandable, and we can only pick one.. what can we choose? I understand both your ways, cruxRH and Idra... first.. to CruxRH : Do you really believe God actually put a place in her in heaven? do you actualy BELIEVE it? You dont know if she actually did, only her and God knows.. Dont be too sure, just pray, and hope for the best, God knows what to do, dont ever doubt that. IdrA + Snet : You both probably know that this world is screwed up, all on the news theres word of terrorism, the end of the world, and diseases.. Why dont you see CruxRH's point of view, how hes happy for her to leave this world, because its so painful, and because leaving it makes misery all gone, and leaving her at peace, yes it sounds stupid that we're happy she died, but look between the words.. | ||
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
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TesisMech
Peru688 Posts
On November 30 2007 15:22 IdrA wrote: see? that is whats fucked up about religion. you're happy your friend died. what the fuck is wrong with you God, STFU already. | ||
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
She must be really happy having tea with Jesus up in heaven lol. | ||
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Dr.Kill-Joy
United States627 Posts
Idra seems not to be an opened minded person. | ||
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On December 01 2007 08:49 Dr.Kill-Joy wrote: This is a tough topic to discuss. You mourn someones death but yet if you beleive she is in a better place which hell I hope there is a better place than this world, then I don't think there is a problem with this. Idra seems not to be an opened minded person. "we should all be open minded, but not so open minded our brains fall out" | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
Many times, what I think bothers atheists so much is the perception that Christians (and other religious people) are attacking them and acting out of hate and intolerance (which has often been true). Ironic then that in this thread, the opposite appears to be true. It saddens me to see that so many atheists are seemingly more interested in showing off their "cold logic" and their "correctness" than showing compassion and empathy. What is more important? At the end of the day, we are ALL just human beings, and we all have something in common, atheist or christian, gay or straight, male or female, young or old. We are all people and we all want to be happy and get by. Why not focus more on that and less on silly differences like what beliefs various people have about gods and the afterlife (or lack thereof)? | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On December 01 2007 17:19 nA.Inky wrote: I am an atheist, too, but I really admire much of what Jesus is saying in this blog. Compassion undermines evil. Many times, maybe all the time, people who do wrong - even murder - are misguided, confused, and even broken in some way. We can shut them away, torture them, or kill them, but if there is a way to heal the confused person, to teach them love and compassion, then it is a tragedy to do otherwise. JesusCruxRH and the other Christians of his community show amazing love and compassion by embracing peace and healing instead of hate and the desire for revenge. If all people on Earth were more like this, the world would be vastly improved, whether populated by Christians or atheists. All this talk of logic is rather silly in this context. Many times, what I think bothers atheists so much is the perception that Christians (and other religious people) are attacking them and acting out of hate and intolerance (which has often been true). Ironic then that in this thread, the opposite appears to be true. It saddens me to see that so many atheists are seemingly more interested in showing off their "cold logic" and their "correctness" than showing compassion and empathy. What is more important? At the end of the day, we are ALL just human beings, and we all have something in common, atheist or christian, gay or straight, male or female, young or old. We are all people and we all want to be happy and get by. Why not focus more on that and less on silly differences like what beliefs various people have about gods and the afterlife (or lack thereof)? good post. I wish all the guys who talk trash about religion all the time would just take a religious book (the bible or some other) and read it. Read it without presetting their mind to "Refuse" or "Deny" or "shut off." Ignore the fact that the text is about God in which you dont believe. Just try to see the message behind the words. Its really a positive one. Just try to forget all you know about anything, imagine you are a child reading it the first time. Only after you read it, then go back to your old self, and you'll see that you werent entirely right. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
I agree it is helpful to have an understanding of a religion before one criticizes it. That said, there is room to be critical of religion, and to the extent that religion (or anything else) promotes intolerance, hate, and violence, it should be criticized (peacefully). There is, in fact, much hate in the Bible, and much more hate has been encouraged because of the Bible. There is also a lot of wisdom and love in the Bible, and a lot of good things have been done because of it. We must be careful not to criticize a religious person because of possible flaws in their religious text or general religion. We must treat each individual separately based on their personal outlook and practices. My personal feeling is that we should encourage compassion, peace, and love in whatever we do, whether we are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or atheistic. As JesusCruxRH seems, from what I've seen - and I don't claim to have seen all, to promote compassion and peace and love, I support him. Nick / Inky | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
On December 01 2007 17:19 nA.Inky wrote: I am an atheist, too, but I really admire much of what Jesus is saying in this blog. Compassion undermines evil. Many times, maybe all the time, people who do wrong - even murder - are misguided, confused, and even broken in some way. We can shut them away, torture them, or kill them, but if there is a way to heal the confused person, to teach them love and compassion, then it is a tragedy to do otherwise. JesusCruxRH and the other Christians of his community show amazing love and compassion by embracing peace and healing instead of hate and the desire for revenge. If all people on Earth were more like this, the world would be vastly improved, whether populated by Christians or atheists. All this talk of logic is rather silly in this context. sometimes it's impossible to "heal" murderers due to chemical imbalances in their brains that block out compassion. in the case of psychopaths, they are physically and biologically incapable of feeling empathy. should we treat psychopaths with compassion when they can't treat us the same? Many times, what I think bothers atheists so much is the perception that Christians (and other religious people) are attacking them and acting out of hate and intolerance (which has often been true). Ironic then that in this thread, the opposite appears to be true. What bothers me about religion is not that I feel attacked or threatened by it. It's that I feel it's a detrament to humanity on an individual and societal level. Indeed the opposite is true here, and that's not in the least bit ironic, because that's just the way we went about responding to RH. I'm emotionally bothered by his merciless, inhuman reaction to death. Is that wrong? It saddens me to see that so many atheists are seemingly more interested in showing off their "cold logic" and their "correctness" than showing compassion and empathy. What is more important? At the end of the day, we are ALL just human beings, and we all have something in common, atheist or christian, gay or straight, male or female, young or old. We are all people and we all want to be happy and get by. Why not focus more on that and less on silly differences like what beliefs various people have about gods and the afterlife (or lack thereof)? Nay, it is us who have shown the most compassion in this case. I see no remorse in RH for the loss of his friend, no compassion or empathy. My response was one of bewilderment toward that fact. It's true that I attacked RH for his views. That's the only way I could possibly describe my reaction to his story. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
Also, I would strongly question the idea that some people can't be reformed. Perhaps they cannot be, but we should not be so quick to decide that. My personal thinking is that people too easily fall back on the notion of "chemical imbalances" within the brain. My understanding is that the brain is far from understood. I feel that people point to chemical imbalances and personality disorders in the same way that people attributed strange or evil behavior to demon possession in the past. Is there such a thing as a chemical imbalance? Quite probably. On the other hand, there is some benefit to powerful interests if we dismiss many undesirable behaviors as medical in nature. For one, treatment is often profitable, and there is the advantage of not having to directly address the real underlying issues, which could be potentially very complicated. I'm not arguing with you on your first point, just raising questions and concerns. On your second point: you say you rail against religion because you feel it is detrimental to individuals and humanity. Many times throughout history, and on into the present, many religious people have felt that atheism or alternative faiths are detrimental to people and humanity, and many times the consequences of this view have been horrific. What someone else believes is not your problem or your business. How would you go about changing what people believe? Regulating them? Bashing them until they "come to their senses?" Either way, this seems highly problematic. If we all get along and respect each other, it hardly matters whether some of us believe in some magical sky deity while others do not. Right? So I prefer to focus on helping the cause of tolerance and compassion, rather than synchronizing everyone's beliefs with the modern paradigm. I also do not see this lack of compassion you say JesusCruxRH has displayed. I do not want to put words into JCRH's mouth, but why not ask him: if it had been up to him, would this murder have taken place? Did it give him a sense of true joy that it happened? I would bet no in both cases. I also believe that the happiness he expresses is more philosophical or spiritual in nature - he thinks his friend has moved to a better place, and that, if true, is indeed a good thing. It may or may not be true, but it is what he believes, and that is his business. You don't agree? That's ok too. Anyway, his beliefs don't mean he does not miss her, or that he would have chosen for her to be killed. Again, I could be wrong, and I welcome JCRH to correct either of us, but I think you have to read between the lines of his words. As I see it, there is no reason to attack anyone. Why would you want to go through life attacking people, Meta, when it is so much more pleasant to be at peace in the world? Nick / Inky | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
Though I won't try to hide that I was attacking RH for his views, this stems very much from his posts in the past and on his previous account. My main goal in my post was to post my horrific disgust at how he handles death, with such an impromtu "I'm happy she's with God, time to move on" attitude. The following is a specific response to your last remark. I don't have any huge beef with Christianity as it is in the modern, western world, as a whole. I do, however, have a hatred for Islam and everything it stands for. Try to reason with a suicide bomber, why don't you. I can't be at peace when there are militant, empirical Muslims with access to nuclear weapons. Some things can't be peacefully resolved, and in this case, that's due to extremist Muslim theocracy. What I do specifically dislike about Christianity is that moderate Christians forbid an open crtique of Islam because the subject of religion is so taboo. If we say "Islam is wrong and that is what we (the US) are at war with.", what's to stop Christianity from being next? Afterall, both religions are on the same logical grounds. What will you say if a new sun rises on the horizon over Los Angelas one morning, courtesy of Islamic Jihad. How can you be at peace with that possibility? I think our goals are the same, Inky. We would both love for nothing more than to see a peaceful world, with every human being looking out for every other human being, but like I said, as the world is today, due in my opinion primarily to religion, greed, and opposed governments, that is an impossibility. But this has absolutely nothing to do with RH's blog, of which I am still appalled. | ||
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
On December 02 2007 05:17 niteReloaded wrote: good post. I wish all the guys who talk trash about religion all the time would just take a religious book (the bible or some other) and read it. Read it without presetting their mind to "Refuse" or "Deny" or "shut off." Ignore the fact that the text is about God in which you dont believe. Just try to see the message behind the words. Its really a positive one. Just try to forget all you know about anything, imagine you are a child reading it the first time. Only after you read it, then go back to your old self, and you'll see that you werent entirely right. nobody presets their minds to reject or deny a holy book, it is usually the opposite way. Most of us are brought up in a religious community and have to ESCAPE from the brainwashing. You think I was born saying "damn it, the bible does say some pretty stupid shit sometimes" no i was raised to believe it word by word and through CRITICAL THINKING decided that it was not worth to base my life on a book which has no tenability in the modern world. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
As to your comments on Islam, I'll say this. ANY viewpoint that is taken to a great extreme is dangerous. Capitalism has been taken too far in this country, with horrible consequences. Socialism has been taken too far, with horrible consequences. Christianity has been taken too far, with horrible consequences. Technology has been taken too far, with horrible consequences. And I think some people take atheism too far, although I'm not sure how bad the consequences have been yet (although we could bring up the Soviet Union and such, but I don't know the particulars of how religious folks were treated in that situation.) The danger is in taking oneself and one's views too seriously, and then acting out of hate and intolerance for those who differ. This is a big world, and a big universe, big enough for many different belief systems and ways of doing things. No? More useful to build a good life and live with love and compassion than to focus on how much other people's ideas upset you. As to Islam being a danger to the U.S., I believe this is mostly propaganda. The real issue is that the United States is a terrorist nation and has angered many people around the world with its immoral, greedy actions. Does that justify terrorism against us? No. But I think that an approach rooted in love and fairness is key to addressing the problems of terrorism. Of course that largely means the U.S. has to undergo EXTREME changes, and the U.S. does not want to do that. But like you say, we are getting WAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic!  Peace. Nick / Inky | ||
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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
You judge murderers for their inability to show compassion, I say take a good look at yourself first. Thanks Jibba, Inky, etc. | ||
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TesisMech
Peru688 Posts
On December 01 2007 16:08 IdrA wrote: "we should all be open minded, but not so open minded our brains fall out" go post in another place then and stop going into fucking tantrums every time RH makes a blog, you definatelly cross the line here, someone died and you have not even a minimun respect for him or the situation you just care to get your point across offending whoever has different beliefs than you. HE is not HAPPY than he died, you dont have to be smart to figure that one out. He is just relieve and happy than he knows after all he will enjoy a better life. | ||
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Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
You know exactly that this forum is very anti religious, yet you continue to stir up the issue. Why don't you just drop it. Free speech and all, but you want us to post on your blogs or you would have gone to a christian forum where you are much better appreciated. Just as any atheist would go to the Richarddawkins forums to talk about atheism. Or a Nazi would go to his own forum. These ideas are not maimstream and all you get out of your blog is controversy which I assume is what you are after. | ||
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JesusCruxRH
New Zealand159 Posts
On December 02 2007 14:32 Rev0lution wrote: You know exactly why you post this stuff on this blog. I can deliberately say that you actually want the attention you are getting for posting stuff like "i pray for the killer" and "she died but she is with god now" You know exactly that this forum is very anti religious, yet you continue to stir up the issue. Why don't you just drop it. Free speech and all, but you want us to post on your blogs or you would have gone to a christian forum where you are much better appreciated. Just as any atheist would go to the Richarddawkins forums to talk about atheism. Or a Nazi would go to his own forum. These ideas are not maimstream and all you get out of your blog is controversy which I assume is what you are after. You are an idiot, period  | ||
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TesisMech
Peru688 Posts
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DwmC_Foefen
Belgium2186 Posts
(I saw alot of rude posts here :-( ) | ||
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bine
United States2352 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
dunno what namecalling style has currency nowadays, childish? insensitive? brutish? frustratingly nubbish? | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On December 03 2007 18:21 oneofthem wrote: perhaps this rash of harsh confrontations between religionists and 'atheists' is really a problem of social separation. i m sure idra would take a different attitude if he came in contact with various nice religious people. he wont be so harsh to a nice old lady offering him food, i dont think. dunno what namecalling style has currency nowadays, childish? insensitive? brutish? frustratingly nubbish? I actually think it stems more from the fact that atheists want to prove a point. They want to get it across that religious beliefs shouldn't deserve any respect. I'm sure many are more harsh and argumentative here because it is, after all, and internet forum;p | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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bine
United States2352 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
Sometimes people here just seem to be waiting for an excuse to attack, rather than looking for ways to have a friendly, satisfying conversation. I thought many things RH brought up lent themselves to meaningful conversation. I wish he were not banned. But to be honest, I may have missed many "bad" things he did post. | ||
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