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I'd like to chime in here.
First, we, as gaming content consumers and TL posters, often forget is that WE do NOT represent the majority. When you spend a lot of time conversing with people with the same interests and ideas, it becomes natural to think that everyone is similar to yourselves.
However, because of this, we often project our thoughts, feelings and motivations onto other people we encounter.
What I think that we are all neglecting is the VOLUME of crap that TotalBiscuit receives. We don't have access to his various inboxes, nor would we notice the twitch/twitter/reddit comments the same way that he would.
When you put your entire being into a project, it is very disheartening for people to attack it. It affects your mindset, your feeling of self-worth, your confidence, etc.
Each time you see an attack, you are faced with a choice between ignoring it or diffusing it. If you ignore it, you risk having the idea take hold in people's mind. Imagine the consequences if your sponsors start to believe it too, because it's has been suggested on a popular social site.
Now, add up the continued damage that these events incur.
Would you be able to put up with that in your own lives? I would NOT have the mental fortitude to persevere.
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On April 26 2015 00:53 kingjames01 wrote:
I'd like to chime in here.
First, we, as gaming content consumers and TL posters, often forget is that WE do NOT represent the majority. When you spend a lot of time conversing with people with the same interests and ideas, it becomes natural to think that everyone is similar to yourselves.
However, because of this, we often project our thoughts, feelings and motivations onto other people we encounter.
What I think that we are all neglecting is the VOLUME of crap that TotalBiscuit receives. We don't have access to his various inboxes, nor would we notice the twitch/twitter/reddit comments the same way that he would.
When you put your entire being into a project, it is very disheartening for people to attack it. It affects your mindset, your feeling of self-worth, your confidence, etc.
Each time you see an attack, you are faced with a choice between ignoring it or diffusing it. If you ignore it, you risk having the idea take hold in people's mind. Imagine the consequences if your sponsors start to believe it too, because it's has been suggested on a popular social site.
Now, add up the continued damage that these events incur.
Would you be able to put up with that in your own lives? I would NOT have the mental fortitude to persevere.
These are good points, but he is the one that chose his line of work. "Fame" if we can call it that in this case, will always come with these problems.
That said, that is no justification for lashing out at your fans and critics. If someone offends you the correct response should never be to attempt to offend them etc. This is just called being a well developed human being, and I think you could turn your point around to say that this is what he wanted when he set out to be an entertainer (he could have discarded the naive question as naive, or simply posted a link to his youtube channel etc) and quite frankly with so much practice you would think he would have developed better management and communication techniques.
My personal take is that TB didn't reflect on how much that question offended him and so he spent a few pages attempting to offend the entire community after they didn't like his use of veiled meanness towards a naive question. And since he was already emotionally upset, when the responses were anything less than utter gratitude he took it even more negatively. His history of borderline posting really demonstrates a lack of introspection in my opinion. Of course this is just speculation, but I do empathize with him regardless of how far off i may be.
The majority of people really did/do appreciate the insight he provided in that blog and what he does for SC2/PC gaming in general. I think he really thinks people disagreed with him because of the bullshit reasons he said... I really don't think this would have even been an incident if he hadn't told that one dude to fuck off and then started insulting the entire forum base. Sure that guy's post was insensitive and looking to anger, but it really shouldn't have been so easy for him to derail an insightful thread and soley TB is responsible for that.
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Its hard not to agree with the points raised.
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On April 26 2015 00:53 kingjames01 wrote:
What I think that we are all neglecting is the VOLUME of crap that TotalBiscuit receives. We don't have access to his various inboxes, nor would we notice the twitch/twitter/reddit comments the same way that he would.
I'd like to address especially this part of what you said without taking it too much out of context.
If you're a famous person and you receive a lot of negative feedback (taking into consideration that plain insults and similar should always just be ignored since it's in no way constructive or anything), you of course start to think "why is that?".
There aren't too many answers to that question if you see it on an abstract level:
a) You do something that many people dislike.
b) The negative feedback has no reasoning behind it and thus can be ignored.
The binary state of "yes it's correct" or "no it's incorrect". Well, I think people like Pughy, Jorosar, Breaker, even really famous ones such as Rotterdam, Tod, Kaelaris receive a lot of negative feedback. Whenever Take decides to put a new face on his stream, twitch chat is mostly like "lol that guy get him out of here he sucks". But none of these guys responds to those plainly insulting "feedback" givers. Why does TotalBiscuit? He's just creating his own problems at this point.
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Related to what you said but not directly a reply to your post: I don't think TotalBiscuit receives more or less stupid feedback (in relation to the number of people he reaches of course) than anyone else so I wouldn't really count that as an excuse for why he goes ad hominem rather easily. He often claims to be very professional, acting like a guy who's "been there, done that". Well why not do so when dealing with negative feedback?
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On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:
And here's a last personal message. John, I value your work. I appreciate what you do and I will support your tournaments and your team. You're a great hard-working, passionate man. Just stop being a prick to everyone who disagrees and has no huge experience in the scene to his name.
I do not like you, nor do I dislike you. I don't know you as a person. I just know the letters you're typing and the content of your posts.
Every single user with the insulting parts of your posts would have been temp banned a long time ago. The fact that you are not being temp banned does not mean that this content is perfectly fine. It says your achievements and your work are being valued way higher than some random insults. But it does in no way change the fact that some of your posts are plainly insulting. Change your attitude towards people that disagree with you.
it is interesting to note that this thread lives on while the TB thread was closed by MODs/Chill/Admins.. so i'll have to post in here.
TB claims he is "educating the community" with his sardonic blog post... nuttin wrong with that.
a better title for the blog post is something like "A Deeper Look At Axiom" or "Axiom Under the Microscope" or something indicating we're getting some pretty detailed info about TB's organization.
when i saw the author is "TB" and the title is "Axiom Barely Exists" in quotes my instant reaction was : this will be entertaining.
so i would like to thank TB and boxerfred for a few moments of entertainment.
and thank you to TL.Net for providing the stage.
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Canada11349 Posts
On April 26 2015 00:33 Garrl wrote:
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever.
That seems an odd view to take. What about continuing on now that SC2 is no longer at its height, including in the middle of all the daed game despair? And long after so many other foreign teams have disappeared. I mean, that doesn't require following or liking Axiom- I don't follow SC2 at all these days. But for all TB's faults, I think 'bandwagoner' is one that doesn't apply to him.
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On April 26 2015 02:22 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 00:33 Garrl wrote:
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever. That seems an odd view to take. What about continuing on now that SC2 is no longer at its height, including in the middle of all the daed game despair? And long after so many other foreign teams have disappeared. I mean, that doesn't require following or liking Axiom- I don't follow SC2 at all these days. But for all TB's faults, I think 'bandwagoner' is one that doesn't apply to him.
hopefully, TB gets rewarded in some way for his willingness to stick with SC2.
i think Blizz should "buy/license" the Axiom team-model from him and create 9 teams using this model and then make a really cool league.
however, i'm dreaming in technicolour with that thought/hope.
it'll never happen.
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On April 26 2015 02:22 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 00:33 Garrl wrote:
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever. That seems an odd view to take. What about continuing on now that SC2 is no longer at its height, including in the middle of all the daed game despair? And long after so many other foreign teams have disappeared. I mean, that doesn't require following or liking Axiom- I don't follow SC2 at all these days. But for all TB's faults, I think 'bandwagoner' is one that doesn't apply to him.
Yes. I should've said that myself since I want to keep the comments civil and don't want them to turn into a "boxerfred is so right and TB is so wrong" but more into a honest discussion.
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On April 25 2015 17:06 Creager wrote:
As the one told to "go fuck myself" I can just agree with you, I get the exact same feeling when reading such things from TB, that kind of attitude just pisses me off, so that made me writing this provoking BS answer.
I'm really thankful to your efforts and accomplishments in eSports/SC2, TB, but please work on your attitude.
Yeah, I saw that. It was really uncalled for. But so was calling RuFF a "cunt" on twitter.
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0_0 I saw this, read it, went back to the post this one refers to, read it again, went the comments, shit myself at the unholy rage that took place, realized why the post had been locked, wrote this while figured out an decent reply, came up with one, and proceed to write the following.
You have a very valid point, but the reason they didn't ban him isn't necessarily because of the fact is TB, its because of just how the Internet works(Give me a sec this isn't a licking TB's boot post) People who have just become apart of the internet came here by this means or knows someone who does this. They have a social disorder of some sort or have experienced something that caused them to recluse a bit. Its not bad that they responded to it by coming to the internet, but what comes out of that can be a problem. As you are probably know people form a false sense of belonging and togetherness around certain people, places, etc even if the person they follow doesn't want it. That following is the problem. I can almost guarantee you that is why TL didn't ban him.
You and both know that if TB had been banned there would have been not just shit flinging, but fecal nukes going off. The outrage would have been just now, and seeing TB is in a pretty volatile state right now, it wouldn't have been a small thing like this is. Lock the thread, all is well. I have bias towards TB because I have been watching the majority of his content for about 4 years now. So, you could definitely say I am a fan, and not banning TB for some of the stuff he said was objectively a bit fucked.
In the end TB was a bit crossed and for some reason or another and took a reddit post by someone as a insult and down putting of his team, something he has probably sacrificed quite a bit for, and then some people jumped on him for being a bit eh about it, created a catalyst, snowballed the whole damn thing, everyone on both sides - including TB - shit flung like no tomorrow, and this is where we are now.
I would have to assume, because he has talked about this and so have a lot of large content creators, that they are under a constant stream of shit flinging - as you can tell I like saying shit and flinging XD - and this may have been the slightly miss taken post that broke the camels back. While I hope to see him do something in regards to being an ass, I give him a bit of leeway in judging him when it comes to this. You did a very good job in addressing a possible issue in the TL community, and you did this very respectfully. Please don't take the last statement as me saying you are judging him, because, at least to me, you proved you aren't. I just wanted to point some of these things out and while, this whole situation is pretty fubar and TB fucked up, you will just think about some of this
have a good day 
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Really what this emphasizes to me is why it's generally not the optimum course of action to respond to people talking shit by aggressively rebuking them or just altogether talking shit.
There is nothing to be gained from it aside from a personal sense of vindication, that "I showed that dumb shit" what's up feeling. Beyond that there are no benefits. It doesn't win people over or make them feel favorable to you. Nobody ever says "Damn he was so aggressive to that guy I totally support his cause now". In fact, knowing little about TB it's clear to me that a large number of people feel that he has a tendency to be overaggressive in such a way as to seem arrogant and rude.
Most importantly it certainly doesn't change the other persons mind. Arguing against the other person, especially bringing in any personal level stuff, does nothing to sway their mind. In most cases it does the opposite. How many times have we all argued passionately with someone defending our case and assertions eloquently and with strong reasoning...only to find the other person at the end is even more firmly convinced of his own position? Even if it's a black and white case, where you have all the facts and the other person is wrong, you may be able to convince him he is wrong, but you'll also make him feel inferior in the process. Much better to avoid the discussion or keep it private. The one exception for doing so is if the misinformation is factually important stuff that is directed at something of importance. If someone slanders Axiom, then it makes sense to address it with the correct information as TB was doing.
TB tends to say that fans aren't going to leave if he approaches discussion the way he does, and he is certainly right. However, I think he could be even more successful with an alternate approach. For example consider this exchange:
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.
To which TB responded:
Or you could go fuck yourself.
In my mind, that doesn't accomplish anything. The other poster already doesn't look good, no need to respond in kind. Imagine instead the response:
[quote]You're right, I do get frustrated and angered when people throw insults. I care deeply about the team I'm working to build and the players on it, and hearing the consistent slander towards my work is both painful and frustrating. I agree I sometimes let that anger out to much, and a reminder like yours can be helpful. Thank you.
I hear you on the players, and I think you're going to see just that in the upcoming months. The guys are training tirelessly, putting in hours that rival the training of anyone out there. Keep watching for us at future tournaments. /quote]
It's important to realize TB wasn't walked all over in this second example. He just explained where he was coming from, and acknowledged that he could be even friendlier, while still setting very straight the facts about Axiom.
That second option is way better as I see it. There were no benefits to the first example. In this example the guy who responded to TB is going to walk away from this shocked and with a totally different opinion of TB. If he wasn't a fan, he now is, or is at least interested, having received a personal thanks from the owner of the team. TB starts transforming into someone heavily likeable, someone you want to root for; which by extension includes Axiom.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
page 3
still no totalbiscuit
jimmies are rustled
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Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, so why the hell should I tip-toe around yours?
Just a reminder, this entire little college thesis of Boxerfreds started because he got offended that I knew more about the business aspect of SC2 than some random redditor. If that isn't 50 shades of pathetic I don't know what is.
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On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
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On April 26 2015 08:14 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, don't expect it to start now.
Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
Go fuck yourself :x If you were offended by that blog post you are irredeemable crybaby.
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On April 26 2015 08:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 08:14 ninazerg wrote:On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, don't expect it to start now.
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
Go fuck yourself :x If you were offended by that blog post you are irredeemable crybaby.
I finally got Senpai to notice me :D
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Why respond TB...WHY?? Just ignore them. You invite this behavior by feeding them with your responses. Don't give them the satisfaction.
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On April 26 2015 08:21 Bannt wrote:
Why respond TB...WHY?? Just ignore them. You invite this behavior by feeding them with your responses. Don't give them the satisfaction.
Actually I think I've had enough. I'm done with TL and its cadre of poisonous posters who suffer from collective Dunning-Kruger effect. You can't even explain your teams own business model without getting shit on because a bunch of crybabies got offended for no reason. Even Reddit didnt get offended at that blog and they get offended at everything under the sun.
Asking the mods to delete my account, there's no benefit to being here anyway. If people wanna circlejerk about how much they think they know and make themselves feel better by shitting on the increasingly shrinking number of community personalities/casters/players that bother to continue to post on TL that's their business, but I'm not going to subject myself to it anymore.
5 years of this shit is to just too damn much. Enough.
Oh and Boxerfred? Go fuck yourself. If you didnt want a negative response you shouldn't have shitposted in the thread in the first place. You want me to "stop being a prick to people?", then try treating me how you want to be treated. Congratulations on further piling on drama to the point where I can't be fucked to deal with it anymore. I hope you're satisfied at your accomplishment.
Before I go, here's a reminder of your "great contribution" to the thread that spurred your essay length whine.
Mods better take action now. It's enough. Barely anybody of importance? Well leave that site then and totally don't care for players, casters and personalities posting here. Ignore the beautiful work of TL strategy. Ignore quality recaps and previews. Just gtfo then.
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.
Can't imagine why you got told to get lost....
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didn't martyring yourself = perma ban once upon a time on TL?
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
this is actually unbelievably accurate..
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pN0rxmQ.png)
