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"Boxerfred has been an asshole to me for ages. I can't remember a time when he wasn't, it's been that long. He shows up constantly in threads I'm in for the sole purpose of picking a fight."
- TotalBiscuit
Show nested quote +"Comparing you and him, you both appear similarly combative. I don't think he's giving your words a fair shot, but you seem to have an easy time carrying a grudge against posters whom you feel have slighted you in the past. I do, however, think you fail to understand that there may be people in open disagreement with what you say and how you say it on TL that still appreciate that you take time out of your day to post on TL. Occasionally, I am one of those people. This blog isn't one of the posts that make me feel that way, but you have painted yourself into a corner from where you feel the need to defend your thoughts and how you phrase them against anyone that objects. It strikes me as, ultimately, futile."
- Zealously
"There's a difference between disagreement and arguing for the sake of it because you don't like someone. Boxerfred falls into the latter category. When you come to someones personal blog to start a fight, I think the intention is obvious." - TotalBiscuit
Well, time to sort that out. Let's start with the facts first, regarding me as a person TL poster.
When I registered on TL in first place, I sucked and shitposted a lot. I used to claim balance issues whenever protoss won a match, I was hostile towards people that I was annoyed by and had no idea about the nettiquette of this forum. So I got warned, and temp banned, and so on. I feel like I grew up during the years, as well in my real life as well as here on TL.net.
What I think about myself as a TL poster: I'm trying to be funny, love LR threads and want to be one of the "cool guys" around. Of course, people might experience me in a slightly different way *rolls eyes* so I'm just talking about what I think of myself.
And - I've been an asshole to TotalBiscuit for ages. It doesn't matter if I indeed was, since TotalBiscuit perceived it that way, I was. Can't really deny that I picked whatever bait TB would throw at me or anyone in threads where he posted and tried to throw it right back to him. I always admired (and admire) the content he was and is creating. I never liked his casting style but I am able to see if someone is actually working his ass off for a game he's really really passionate about.
But why do I choose to get in a brawl with TB so often? Well, because his attitude is really hard for me to deal with. Please note that I am solely talking about my perception of his attitude. I acknowledge that he feels like I am an asshole towards him (well, not always. I once sent a supportive PM when I heard he had cancer).
So how do I perceive TotalBiscuit's attitude towards people?
- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
Well, that's pretty much a TL;DR list. I could go on but I don't wanna get too far off the road that this blog post is supposed to take. To summarize what I think of TotalBiscuit: he's someone who really loves StarCraft, does a lot for the game (and for gaming in general) and he likes to be transparent and open about his work. But he also seems to think that he is the #1 badass of the scene. The one true guy. The one true man. The mastermind of "that's how it works". His arrogance towards pretty much everyone who's either not on his level or not a personality of esports is disgusting. Because he makes a living off of esports and is a highly acknowledged personality of the scene, he thinks he stands way above people. He lets everyone who has not his knowledge not only know what he thinks is true, but also attacks everyone that he feels is "dumb" on a personal level.
Why can't TotalBiscuit just accept that the majority of the community are people who, well, do not have the insights he has, do not have the experience he has, do not have the knowledge that he has?
Well, haha, you got me guys. He totally accepts that. And as he does it, he puts himself on a knowledge high ground. He's like the king who's explaining to the peasants why he decided to do something that keeps the peasants entertained. But I don't want to be treated as a peasant. I want to be treated as a someone on the same level in terms of value. While TotalBiscuit surely knows a hell of a lot more than I do about esports and gaming and running a team, I'm sure he's not that great at speaking german, cooking a nice quiche lorainne or programming a Salesforce application.
Note again: this is my perception of TotalBiscuit. Just an intuitively written "that's what I think of him".
Everyone, including that "random reddit poster" who humbly dared to asked questions (thus triggering a disgustingly insulting blog post here on TL), has his qualities. While some people do indeed have more strengths than others, those people do not need to rub their qualities in the faces of the seemlingly inferior ones.
Final edit:
What just came to my mind: whenever you, TB, post something, you expect that everyone reading and replying is in no way ignorant or anything. People are supposed to read what you say and process it, think about it and do some research before giving a profound answer to what you stated. Well, you're on the internet. That's except for some, well, exceptions (spontanously: Zealously) not gonna happen, not even in real life. Also, while you expect that from people, once people do not follow that expectation, you turn into a prick.
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Break here. Part 2. If I'd say to someone "go fuck yourself", I'd be easily warned. If I'd repeatedly do it, I'd be banned. If Plexa would start to call people "morons" and be increasingly hostile towards people asking him questions, I bet TL staff would sooner or later take action. Time for me to say something that I actually hate to say: if personalities are treated in a different way than "normal" users, why do people like avilo and idra get warned/banned for being a prick? I get the idea that a valuable community contributor can (just as a forum vet) lean farther out of the window than the normal user. But the level that Totalbiscuit is on is just a whole new one.
___
Part 3.
So, what to do about me vs. Totalbiscuit? I will stop attacking him. That's what I can do. Like a gentleman's agreement to disagree.
There's a difference between disagreement and arguing for the sake of it because you don't like someone. Boxerfred falls into the latter category. When you come to someones personal blog to start a fight, I think the intention is obvious.
And here's a last personal message. John, I value your work. I appreciate what you do and I will support your tournaments and your team. You're a great hard-working, passionate man. Just stop being a prick to everyone who disagrees and has no huge experience in the scene to his name.
I do not like you, nor do I dislike you. I don't know you as a person. I just know the letters you're typing and the content of your posts.
Every single user with the insulting parts of your posts would have been temp banned a long time ago. The fact that you are not being temp banned does not mean that this content is perfectly fine. It says your achievements and your work are being valued way higher than some random insults. But it does in no way change the fact that some of your posts are plainly insulting. Change your attitude towards people that disagree with you.
  
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Early in my career...I had to choose between an honest arrogance and a hypercritical humility... I deliberately choose an honest arrogance, and I've never been sorry.”
-- Frank Lloyd Wright
"Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance" -- Sun Tsu
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I wish moderators were harder on him when he randomly insults anyone who criticizes him but they won't cause he is important. So it's just a waste of time to talk with him, read the interesting things he has to say about esports and ignore everything else about him.
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Germany25649 Posts
This is going to end well. I am sure you two will come to a reasonable/civil agreement.
Damn, I am almost tempted to put a twitch meme at the end of my sentence 
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your Country52797 Posts
On April 25 2015 03:39 KadaverBB wrote:This is going to end well. I am sure you two will come to a reasonable/civil agreement. Damn, I am almost tempted to put a twitch meme at the end of my sentence
See, I would have said that seriously. I am optimistic about this conversation, and I hope TB and boxerfred either work it out or ignore each other.
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Your personal message at the end really gives me hope yoy two can work things out in some way shape or form
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On April 25 2015 03:37 KingAlphard wrote:
I wish moderators were harder on him when he randomly insults anyone who criticizes him but they won't cause he is important. So it's just a waste of time to talk with him, read the interesting things he has to say about esports and ignore everything else about him.
So true. It's really sad that just because he is renowned he can insult and attack everyone and go away with it. I wish mods were more consistent on TL. Not sure why fame works for people in such way, but it's saddening. I believe he is a decent person irl, he just doesn't show that - I've never seen more toxic poster on TL. :/
Also calling people random for not agreeing/asking questions is just arrogant.
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he irks me sometimed, but then i remember who he is and i somehow forget it every time, only to be annoyed the next time.
anyway i think that TL with TB, including all of the perks that come with him, is a more interesting place than it would have been without him.
thus i propose the oposite - that people who let themselves get worked up by TB get temp banned. as a lesson in unfairness of life. also nevet enough real bans lately.
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The peasantry is at it again mhm *self censorship to avoid heavenly wrath*
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Germany25649 Posts
On April 25 2015 05:45 Djzapz wrote:
The peasantry is at it again mhm *self censorship to avoid heavenly wrath*
I am sure I can count this at martyring somehow!
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On April 25 2015 05:51 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 05:45 Djzapz wrote:
The peasantry is at it again mhm *self censorship to avoid heavenly wrath* I am sure I can count this at martyring somehow!
You're really watching this, eh?
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United States23455 Posts
On April 25 2015 05:09 [BSP]Kain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 03:37 KingAlphard wrote:
I wish moderators were harder on him when he randomly insults anyone who criticizes him but they won't cause he is important. So it's just a waste of time to talk with him, read the interesting things he has to say about esports and ignore everything else about him. So true. It's really sad that just because he is renowned he can insult and attack everyone and go away with it. I wish mods were more consistent on TL. Not sure why fame works for people in such way, but it's saddening. I believe he is a decent person irl, he just doesn't show that - I've never seen more toxic poster on TL. :/Also calling people random for not agreeing/asking questions is just arrogant.
You must have missed MasterofPuppets
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I don't disagree with the bullet points describing your perception of TB. I love his work, passion and what he does for the community though and enjoy to hear his opinions - you just gotta take the righteousness out of his standpoint, take it with a grain of salt and you'll usually find good and interesting reasoning given by him (dressed in absoluteness).
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On April 25 2015 05:57 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 05:09 [BSP]Kain wrote:On April 25 2015 03:37 KingAlphard wrote:
I wish moderators were harder on him when he randomly insults anyone who criticizes him but they won't cause he is important. So it's just a waste of time to talk with him, read the interesting things he has to say about esports and ignore everything else about him. So true. It's really sad that just because he is renowned he can insult and attack everyone and go away with it. I wish mods were more consistent on TL. Not sure why fame works for people in such way, but it's saddening. I believe he is a decent person irl, he just doesn't show that - I've never seen more toxic poster on TL. :/Also calling people random for not agreeing/asking questions is just arrogant. You must have missed MasterofPuppets
A true hero imo
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On April 25 2015 05:57 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 05:09 [BSP]Kain wrote:On April 25 2015 03:37 KingAlphard wrote:
I wish moderators were harder on him when he randomly insults anyone who criticizes him but they won't cause he is important. So it's just a waste of time to talk with him, read the interesting things he has to say about esports and ignore everything else about him. So true. It's really sad that just because he is renowned he can insult and attack everyone and go away with it. I wish mods were more consistent on TL. Not sure why fame works for people in such way, but it's saddening. I believe he is a decent person irl, he just doesn't show that - I've never seen more toxic poster on TL. :/Also calling people random for not agreeing/asking questions is just arrogant. You must have missed MasterofPuppets
i still dont get why people didnt like mop, but then i dont read politics threads...
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On April 25 2015 06:30 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 05:57 Darkhorse wrote:On April 25 2015 05:09 [BSP]Kain wrote:On April 25 2015 03:37 KingAlphard wrote:
I wish moderators were harder on him when he randomly insults anyone who criticizes him but they won't cause he is important. So it's just a waste of time to talk with him, read the interesting things he has to say about esports and ignore everything else about him. So true. It's really sad that just because he is renowned he can insult and attack everyone and go away with it. I wish mods were more consistent on TL. Not sure why fame works for people in such way, but it's saddening. I believe he is a decent person irl, he just doesn't show that - I've never seen more toxic poster on TL. :/Also calling people random for not agreeing/asking questions is just arrogant. You must have missed MasterofPuppets i still dont get why people didnt like mop, but then i dont read politics threads...
It's better not to read politics threads here (or anywhere on the interwebs for that matter), people are crazy or stupid or both, and mindboggingly so :-/
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Coming from someone who doesn't follow Sc2 on reddit, who doesn't bash any casters, who actually likes the players on Axiom and who has no reason to hate on you TB:
There's a way to respond to stupid questions or criticism without coming off sounding rude or aggressive. While there are a couple of people in this thread who deserved some of the spite you delivered them, it really comes off as if most people were simply being civil while you were the one being aggressive and immature, even though you accused others of doing those exact things.
It says something that I expect you to take offense at that statement and rage at me, but I feel obligated to at least let you know that your vitriol has turned at least me off you, as your career depends on people liking you and what you do.
I hope this helps.
This nails it.
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On April 25 2015 06:37 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +
Coming from someone who doesn't follow Sc2 on reddit, who doesn't bash any casters, who actually likes the players on Axiom and who has no reason to hate on you TB:
There's a way to respond to stupid questions or criticism without coming off sounding rude or aggressive. While there are a couple of people in this thread who deserved some of the spite you delivered them, it really comes off as if most people were simply being civil while you were the one being aggressive and immature, even though you accused others of doing those exact things.
It says something that I expect you to take offense at that statement and rage at me, but I feel obligated to at least let you know that your vitriol has turned at least me off you, as your career depends on people liking you and what you do.
I hope this helps.
This nails it.
lol I was just about to quote myself here, thanks for saving me the trouble
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That's what i said in the other thread. Boxerfred is a nice guy.
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A shame though TB probably is not going to answer to this post. But let's see, there's time  .
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You should try playing forum mafia.
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Germany25649 Posts
On April 25 2015 05:57 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 05:51 KadaverBB wrote:On April 25 2015 05:45 Djzapz wrote:
The peasantry is at it again mhm *self censorship to avoid heavenly wrath* I am sure I can count this at martyring somehow! You're really watching this, eh?
I am everywhere, yes.
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Canada11355 Posts
On April 25 2015 07:09 batsnacks wrote:
You should try playing forum mafia.
##vote: TotalBiscuit
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Can we just agree that everyone seems like nice people and everyone is an asshole from time to time?
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Ok, your blog seems civil enough...but was this really necessary at all? Like, why start shit? He gets too upset about stupid comments/trolls, sure that's something he needs to work on but you're literally just poking him in the eye over and over. Of course he's going to get angry.
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On April 25 2015 09:30 Bannt wrote:
Ok, your blog seems civil enough...but was this really necessary at all? Like, why start shit? He gets too upset about stupid comments/trolls, sure that's something he needs to work on but you're literally just poking him in the eye over and over. Of course he's going to get angry.
Tbh, this blog was originally supposed to be a collection of insulting posts from TB. Then I decided not do put more fuel to the fire but instead try to work it out. You're right, putting more fuel to the fire wouldn't have been necessary.
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I kinda agree.
So when are you going to play Brood War again? Quit dodging. I feel like that this is the bigger issue here. You're harping on this TotalBiscuit fella that nobody cares about when you could be learning to compensate for pathing developed in the 90s.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, 
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As the one told to "go fuck myself" I can just agree with you, I get the exact same feeling when reading such things from TB, that kind of attitude just pisses me off, so that made me writing this provoking BS answer.
I'm really thankful to your efforts and accomplishments in eSports/SC2, TB, but please work on your attitude.
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On April 25 2015 16:46 ninazerg wrote:I kinda agree. So when are you going to play Brood War again? Quit dodging. I feel like that this is the bigger issue here. You're harping on this TotalBiscuit fella that nobody cares about when you could be learning to compensate for pathing developed in the 90s. + Show Spoiler +Also,
Excuse me for putting emphasis on blogs (and also my final exams). You have my word, starting mid may I'll try to kick your ass.
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On April 25 2015 17:38 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 16:46 ninazerg wrote:I kinda agree. So when are you going to play Brood War again? Quit dodging. I feel like that this is the bigger issue here. You're harping on this TotalBiscuit fella that nobody cares about when you could be learning to compensate for pathing developed in the 90s. + Show Spoiler +Also, Excuse me for putting emphasis on blogs (and also my final exams). You have my word, starting mid may I'll try to kick your ass.
THAT'S NO EXCUSE. Are you kidding me!? Exams? What is this bullshit?
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On April 25 2015 18:04 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 17:38 boxerfred wrote:On April 25 2015 16:46 ninazerg wrote:I kinda agree. So when are you going to play Brood War again? Quit dodging. I feel like that this is the bigger issue here. You're harping on this TotalBiscuit fella that nobody cares about when you could be learning to compensate for pathing developed in the 90s. + Show Spoiler +Also, Excuse me for putting emphasis on blogs (and also my final exams). You have my word, starting mid may I'll try to kick your ass. THAT'S NO EXCUSE. Are you kidding me!? Exams? What is this bullshit?
That unimportant thing I have to pass before my boss says "I keep hiring you" :/.
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I think I'll wait for the dramatized version of this relationship.
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TB is always right. Remember that when you talking to him.
I remember how +1 year ago he insulted me and few other guys quite hard. He didn't get anything for that but we all already know there is different rules for different users
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On April 25 2015 21:46 Stratos wrote:
I think I'll wait for the dramatized version of this relationship.
If he won't answer here I will not propose to him anytime soon. Close to using a twitch chat thing now, too.
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On April 25 2015 21:46 Stratos wrote:
I think I'll wait for the dramatized version of this relationship.
i'm waiting for the made for TV movie.
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On April 25 2015 07:09 batsnacks wrote:
You should try playing forum mafia.
hahahahaha dat mafia reference
On April 25 2015 16:46 ninazerg wrote:I kinda agree. So when are you going to play Brood War again? Quit dodging. I feel like that this is the bigger issue here. You're harping on this TotalBiscuit fella that nobody cares about when you could be learning to compensate for pathing developed in the 90s. + Show Spoiler +Also,
?? i remembered getting several anti BW posts from boxerfred
:O now he's playing bw?
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I get the feeling that TB is hating on people who disagree with his views because he feels like the community owes him something for throwing cash at sc2.
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever.
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On April 25 2015 23:44 JieXian wrote:hahahahaha dat mafia reference Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 16:46 ninazerg wrote:I kinda agree. So when are you going to play Brood War again? Quit dodging. I feel like that this is the bigger issue here. You're harping on this TotalBiscuit fella that nobody cares about when you could be learning to compensate for pathing developed in the 90s. + Show Spoiler +Also, ?? i remembered getting several anti BW posts from boxerfred :O now he's playing bw?
I never was anti brood war. But I am anti bw elitists :D
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I'd like to chime in here.
First, we, as gaming content consumers and TL posters, often forget is that WE do NOT represent the majority. When you spend a lot of time conversing with people with the same interests and ideas, it becomes natural to think that everyone is similar to yourselves.
However, because of this, we often project our thoughts, feelings and motivations onto other people we encounter.
What I think that we are all neglecting is the VOLUME of crap that TotalBiscuit receives. We don't have access to his various inboxes, nor would we notice the twitch/twitter/reddit comments the same way that he would.
When you put your entire being into a project, it is very disheartening for people to attack it. It affects your mindset, your feeling of self-worth, your confidence, etc.
Each time you see an attack, you are faced with a choice between ignoring it or diffusing it. If you ignore it, you risk having the idea take hold in people's mind. Imagine the consequences if your sponsors start to believe it too, because it's has been suggested on a popular social site.
Now, add up the continued damage that these events incur.
Would you be able to put up with that in your own lives? I would NOT have the mental fortitude to persevere.
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On April 26 2015 00:53 kingjames01 wrote:
I'd like to chime in here.
First, we, as gaming content consumers and TL posters, often forget is that WE do NOT represent the majority. When you spend a lot of time conversing with people with the same interests and ideas, it becomes natural to think that everyone is similar to yourselves.
However, because of this, we often project our thoughts, feelings and motivations onto other people we encounter.
What I think that we are all neglecting is the VOLUME of crap that TotalBiscuit receives. We don't have access to his various inboxes, nor would we notice the twitch/twitter/reddit comments the same way that he would.
When you put your entire being into a project, it is very disheartening for people to attack it. It affects your mindset, your feeling of self-worth, your confidence, etc.
Each time you see an attack, you are faced with a choice between ignoring it or diffusing it. If you ignore it, you risk having the idea take hold in people's mind. Imagine the consequences if your sponsors start to believe it too, because it's has been suggested on a popular social site.
Now, add up the continued damage that these events incur.
Would you be able to put up with that in your own lives? I would NOT have the mental fortitude to persevere.
These are good points, but he is the one that chose his line of work. "Fame" if we can call it that in this case, will always come with these problems.
That said, that is no justification for lashing out at your fans and critics. If someone offends you the correct response should never be to attempt to offend them etc. This is just called being a well developed human being, and I think you could turn your point around to say that this is what he wanted when he set out to be an entertainer (he could have discarded the naive question as naive, or simply posted a link to his youtube channel etc) and quite frankly with so much practice you would think he would have developed better management and communication techniques.
My personal take is that TB didn't reflect on how much that question offended him and so he spent a few pages attempting to offend the entire community after they didn't like his use of veiled meanness towards a naive question. And since he was already emotionally upset, when the responses were anything less than utter gratitude he took it even more negatively. His history of borderline posting really demonstrates a lack of introspection in my opinion. Of course this is just speculation, but I do empathize with him regardless of how far off i may be.
The majority of people really did/do appreciate the insight he provided in that blog and what he does for SC2/PC gaming in general. I think he really thinks people disagreed with him because of the bullshit reasons he said... I really don't think this would have even been an incident if he hadn't told that one dude to fuck off and then started insulting the entire forum base. Sure that guy's post was insensitive and looking to anger, but it really shouldn't have been so easy for him to derail an insightful thread and soley TB is responsible for that.
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Its hard not to agree with the points raised.
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On April 26 2015 00:53 kingjames01 wrote:
What I think that we are all neglecting is the VOLUME of crap that TotalBiscuit receives. We don't have access to his various inboxes, nor would we notice the twitch/twitter/reddit comments the same way that he would.
I'd like to address especially this part of what you said without taking it too much out of context.
If you're a famous person and you receive a lot of negative feedback (taking into consideration that plain insults and similar should always just be ignored since it's in no way constructive or anything), you of course start to think "why is that?".
There aren't too many answers to that question if you see it on an abstract level:
a) You do something that many people dislike.
b) The negative feedback has no reasoning behind it and thus can be ignored.
The binary state of "yes it's correct" or "no it's incorrect". Well, I think people like Pughy, Jorosar, Breaker, even really famous ones such as Rotterdam, Tod, Kaelaris receive a lot of negative feedback. Whenever Take decides to put a new face on his stream, twitch chat is mostly like "lol that guy get him out of here he sucks". But none of these guys responds to those plainly insulting "feedback" givers. Why does TotalBiscuit? He's just creating his own problems at this point.
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Related to what you said but not directly a reply to your post: I don't think TotalBiscuit receives more or less stupid feedback (in relation to the number of people he reaches of course) than anyone else so I wouldn't really count that as an excuse for why he goes ad hominem rather easily. He often claims to be very professional, acting like a guy who's "been there, done that". Well why not do so when dealing with negative feedback?
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On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:
And here's a last personal message. John, I value your work. I appreciate what you do and I will support your tournaments and your team. You're a great hard-working, passionate man. Just stop being a prick to everyone who disagrees and has no huge experience in the scene to his name.
I do not like you, nor do I dislike you. I don't know you as a person. I just know the letters you're typing and the content of your posts.
Every single user with the insulting parts of your posts would have been temp banned a long time ago. The fact that you are not being temp banned does not mean that this content is perfectly fine. It says your achievements and your work are being valued way higher than some random insults. But it does in no way change the fact that some of your posts are plainly insulting. Change your attitude towards people that disagree with you.
it is interesting to note that this thread lives on while the TB thread was closed by MODs/Chill/Admins.. so i'll have to post in here.
TB claims he is "educating the community" with his sardonic blog post... nuttin wrong with that.
a better title for the blog post is something like "A Deeper Look At Axiom" or "Axiom Under the Microscope" or something indicating we're getting some pretty detailed info about TB's organization.
when i saw the author is "TB" and the title is "Axiom Barely Exists" in quotes my instant reaction was : this will be entertaining.
so i would like to thank TB and boxerfred for a few moments of entertainment.
and thank you to TL.Net for providing the stage.
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Canada11310 Posts
On April 26 2015 00:33 Garrl wrote:
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever.
That seems an odd view to take. What about continuing on now that SC2 is no longer at its height, including in the middle of all the daed game despair? And long after so many other foreign teams have disappeared. I mean, that doesn't require following or liking Axiom- I don't follow SC2 at all these days. But for all TB's faults, I think 'bandwagoner' is one that doesn't apply to him.
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On April 26 2015 02:22 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 00:33 Garrl wrote:
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever. That seems an odd view to take. What about continuing on now that SC2 is no longer at its height, including in the middle of all the daed game despair? And long after so many other foreign teams have disappeared. I mean, that doesn't require following or liking Axiom- I don't follow SC2 at all these days. But for all TB's faults, I think 'bandwagoner' is one that doesn't apply to him.
hopefully, TB gets rewarded in some way for his willingness to stick with SC2.
i think Blizz should "buy/license" the Axiom team-model from him and create 9 teams using this model and then make a really cool league.
however, i'm dreaming in technicolour with that thought/hope.
it'll never happen.
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On April 26 2015 02:22 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 00:33 Garrl wrote:
He got in at the height of sc2 esports bandwagonning so I never really cared for his starcraft content, though, so whatever. That seems an odd view to take. What about continuing on now that SC2 is no longer at its height, including in the middle of all the daed game despair? And long after so many other foreign teams have disappeared. I mean, that doesn't require following or liking Axiom- I don't follow SC2 at all these days. But for all TB's faults, I think 'bandwagoner' is one that doesn't apply to him.
Yes. I should've said that myself since I want to keep the comments civil and don't want them to turn into a "boxerfred is so right and TB is so wrong" but more into a honest discussion.
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On April 25 2015 17:06 Creager wrote:
As the one told to "go fuck myself" I can just agree with you, I get the exact same feeling when reading such things from TB, that kind of attitude just pisses me off, so that made me writing this provoking BS answer.
I'm really thankful to your efforts and accomplishments in eSports/SC2, TB, but please work on your attitude.
Yeah, I saw that. It was really uncalled for. But so was calling RuFF a "cunt" on twitter.
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0_0 I saw this, read it, went back to the post this one refers to, read it again, went the comments, shit myself at the unholy rage that took place, realized why the post had been locked, wrote this while figured out an decent reply, came up with one, and proceed to write the following.
You have a very valid point, but the reason they didn't ban him isn't necessarily because of the fact is TB, its because of just how the Internet works(Give me a sec this isn't a licking TB's boot post) People who have just become apart of the internet came here by this means or knows someone who does this. They have a social disorder of some sort or have experienced something that caused them to recluse a bit. Its not bad that they responded to it by coming to the internet, but what comes out of that can be a problem. As you are probably know people form a false sense of belonging and togetherness around certain people, places, etc even if the person they follow doesn't want it. That following is the problem. I can almost guarantee you that is why TL didn't ban him.
You and both know that if TB had been banned there would have been not just shit flinging, but fecal nukes going off. The outrage would have been just now, and seeing TB is in a pretty volatile state right now, it wouldn't have been a small thing like this is. Lock the thread, all is well. I have bias towards TB because I have been watching the majority of his content for about 4 years now. So, you could definitely say I am a fan, and not banning TB for some of the stuff he said was objectively a bit fucked.
In the end TB was a bit crossed and for some reason or another and took a reddit post by someone as a insult and down putting of his team, something he has probably sacrificed quite a bit for, and then some people jumped on him for being a bit eh about it, created a catalyst, snowballed the whole damn thing, everyone on both sides - including TB - shit flung like no tomorrow, and this is where we are now.
I would have to assume, because he has talked about this and so have a lot of large content creators, that they are under a constant stream of shit flinging - as you can tell I like saying shit and flinging XD - and this may have been the slightly miss taken post that broke the camels back. While I hope to see him do something in regards to being an ass, I give him a bit of leeway in judging him when it comes to this. You did a very good job in addressing a possible issue in the TL community, and you did this very respectfully. Please don't take the last statement as me saying you are judging him, because, at least to me, you proved you aren't. I just wanted to point some of these things out and while, this whole situation is pretty fubar and TB fucked up, you will just think about some of this
have a good day
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Really what this emphasizes to me is why it's generally not the optimum course of action to respond to people talking shit by aggressively rebuking them or just altogether talking shit.
There is nothing to be gained from it aside from a personal sense of vindication, that "I showed that dumb shit" what's up feeling. Beyond that there are no benefits. It doesn't win people over or make them feel favorable to you. Nobody ever says "Damn he was so aggressive to that guy I totally support his cause now". In fact, knowing little about TB it's clear to me that a large number of people feel that he has a tendency to be overaggressive in such a way as to seem arrogant and rude.
Most importantly it certainly doesn't change the other persons mind. Arguing against the other person, especially bringing in any personal level stuff, does nothing to sway their mind. In most cases it does the opposite. How many times have we all argued passionately with someone defending our case and assertions eloquently and with strong reasoning...only to find the other person at the end is even more firmly convinced of his own position? Even if it's a black and white case, where you have all the facts and the other person is wrong, you may be able to convince him he is wrong, but you'll also make him feel inferior in the process. Much better to avoid the discussion or keep it private. The one exception for doing so is if the misinformation is factually important stuff that is directed at something of importance. If someone slanders Axiom, then it makes sense to address it with the correct information as TB was doing.
TB tends to say that fans aren't going to leave if he approaches discussion the way he does, and he is certainly right. However, I think he could be even more successful with an alternate approach. For example consider this exchange:
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.
To which TB responded:
Or you could go fuck yourself.
In my mind, that doesn't accomplish anything. The other poster already doesn't look good, no need to respond in kind. Imagine instead the response:
[quote]You're right, I do get frustrated and angered when people throw insults. I care deeply about the team I'm working to build and the players on it, and hearing the consistent slander towards my work is both painful and frustrating. I agree I sometimes let that anger out to much, and a reminder like yours can be helpful. Thank you.
I hear you on the players, and I think you're going to see just that in the upcoming months. The guys are training tirelessly, putting in hours that rival the training of anyone out there. Keep watching for us at future tournaments. /quote]
It's important to realize TB wasn't walked all over in this second example. He just explained where he was coming from, and acknowledged that he could be even friendlier, while still setting very straight the facts about Axiom.
That second option is way better as I see it. There were no benefits to the first example. In this example the guy who responded to TB is going to walk away from this shocked and with a totally different opinion of TB. If he wasn't a fan, he now is, or is at least interested, having received a personal thanks from the owner of the team. TB starts transforming into someone heavily likeable, someone you want to root for; which by extension includes Axiom.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
page 3
still no totalbiscuit
jimmies are rustled
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Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, so why the hell should I tip-toe around yours?
Just a reminder, this entire little college thesis of Boxerfreds started because he got offended that I knew more about the business aspect of SC2 than some random redditor. If that isn't 50 shades of pathetic I don't know what is.
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On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
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On April 26 2015 08:14 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, don't expect it to start now.
Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
Go fuck yourself :x If you were offended by that blog post you are irredeemable crybaby.
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On April 26 2015 08:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 08:14 ninazerg wrote:On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, don't expect it to start now.
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
Go fuck yourself :x If you were offended by that blog post you are irredeemable crybaby.
I finally got Senpai to notice me :D
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Why respond TB...WHY?? Just ignore them. You invite this behavior by feeding them with your responses. Don't give them the satisfaction.
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On April 26 2015 08:21 Bannt wrote:
Why respond TB...WHY?? Just ignore them. You invite this behavior by feeding them with your responses. Don't give them the satisfaction.
Actually I think I've had enough. I'm done with TL and its cadre of poisonous posters who suffer from collective Dunning-Kruger effect. You can't even explain your teams own business model without getting shit on because a bunch of crybabies got offended for no reason. Even Reddit didnt get offended at that blog and they get offended at everything under the sun.
Asking the mods to delete my account, there's no benefit to being here anyway. If people wanna circlejerk about how much they think they know and make themselves feel better by shitting on the increasingly shrinking number of community personalities/casters/players that bother to continue to post on TL that's their business, but I'm not going to subject myself to it anymore.
5 years of this shit is to just too damn much. Enough.
Oh and Boxerfred? Go fuck yourself. If you didnt want a negative response you shouldn't have shitposted in the thread in the first place. You want me to "stop being a prick to people?", then try treating me how you want to be treated. Congratulations on further piling on drama to the point where I can't be fucked to deal with it anymore. I hope you're satisfied at your accomplishment.
Before I go, here's a reminder of your "great contribution" to the thread that spurred your essay length whine.
Mods better take action now. It's enough. Barely anybody of importance? Well leave that site then and totally don't care for players, casters and personalities posting here. Ignore the beautiful work of TL strategy. Ignore quality recaps and previews. Just gtfo then.
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.
Can't imagine why you got told to get lost....
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didn't martyring yourself = perma ban once upon a time on TL?
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
this is actually unbelievably accurate..
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On April 25 2015 06:39 Walnuts wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 06:37 boxerfred wrote:
Coming from someone who doesn't follow Sc2 on reddit, who doesn't bash any casters, who actually likes the players on Axiom and who has no reason to hate on you TB:
There's a way to respond to stupid questions or criticism without coming off sounding rude or aggressive. While there are a couple of people in this thread who deserved some of the spite you delivered them, it really comes off as if most people were simply being civil while you were the one being aggressive and immature, even though you accused others of doing those exact things.
It says something that I expect you to take offense at that statement and rage at me, but I feel obligated to at least let you know that your vitriol has turned at least me off you, as your career depends on people liking you and what you do.
I hope this helps.
This nails it. lol I was just about to quote myself here, thanks for saving me the trouble
He don't rely on people like you liking him personally. His views on YT have nearly doubled in the last couple of years despite being one of the more polarizing figure in his niche. Heck, he even built his buisness from the ground up using the very antics you people critique him for, being blunt to the point of being quite rude. People don't care, his buisness don't suffer for it and your advice don't help him at all.
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On April 26 2015 08:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:
5 years of this shit is to just too damn much. Enough.
Oh and Boxerfred? Go fuck yourself. If you didnt want a negative response you shouldn't have shitposted in the thread in the first place. You want me to "stop being a prick to people?", then try treating me how you want to be treated. Congratulations on further piling on drama to the point where I can't be fucked to deal with it anymore. I hope you're satisfied at your accomplishment.
you are an exceptional entertainer TB.
this passive-aggressive "either he goes or i go" stuff is really fantastic theatre.
your skills in creating entertaining viewing and reading are precisely why you've achieved the high level of success with Axiom and your other SC2 esports ventures. Axiom is a top team in SC2 and a lot of that is due to your expertise and dedication.
Good Luck and Continued Success with Axiom, and Farewell.
Sad to see you go, but i understand your point of view on this one.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I mean...
he's kind of a dick but in a good way right, everyone in england is a bit of a twat, even your best mate is a bit of a twat.. Like he never posts anything boring. I mean he isn't "likeable" right away I guess but I don't think he wants to be your best mate and that's ok. He just wants starcraft stuff.
Like with his team, I think all his axiom stuff is really cute. he's running his team, beating cancer, probably doing your mum. all that stuff is really cool. Sometimes his passion can't be contained and it seems like that landed on your face and a bit ran down into your mouth. now you don't like the taste. dont you fucking dare spit that out you whore.
I dunno mate you just seem a little bit rustled about someone who does a fuck ton of starcraft stuff . Like if you hate somebody just hate them in private don't make a fucking blog about that shit. what is wrong with you.
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Canada11355 Posts
On April 26 2015 09:12 KelsierSC wrote:
I mean...
he's kind of a dick but in a good way right, everyone in england is a bit of a twat, even your best mate is a bit of a twat.. Like he never posts anything boring. I mean he isn't "likeable" right away I guess but I don't think he wants to be your best mate and that's ok. He just wants starcraft stuff.
Like with his team, I think all his axiom stuff is really cute. he's running his team, beating cancer, probably doing your mum. all that stuff is really cool. Sometimes his passion can't be contained and it seems like that landed on your face and a bit ran down into your mouth. now you don't like the taste. dont you fucking dare spit that out you whore.
I dunno mate you just seem a little bit rustled about someone who does a fuck ton of starcraft stuff . Like if you hate somebody just hate them in private don't make a fucking blog about that shit. what is wrong with you.
##unvote
##vote boxerfred
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On April 26 2015 09:16 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 09:12 KelsierSC wrote:
I mean...
he's kind of a dick but in a good way right, everyone in england is a bit of a twat, even your best mate is a bit of a twat.. Like he never posts anything boring. I mean he isn't "likeable" right away I guess but I don't think he wants to be your best mate and that's ok. He just wants starcraft stuff.
Like with his team, I think all his axiom stuff is really cute. he's running his team, beating cancer, probably doing your mum. all that stuff is really cool. Sometimes his passion can't be contained and it seems like that landed on your face and a bit ran down into your mouth. now you don't like the taste. dont you fucking dare spit that out you whore.
I dunno mate you just seem a little bit rustled about someone who does a fuck ton of starcraft stuff . Like if you hate somebody just hate them in private don't make a fucking blog about that shit. what is wrong with you.
##unvote
##vote boxerfred
mate i cant play that game again, rayn owned me too good i retired.
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I was looking forward to TB's response, much like Templar, I thought there was hope. Pity really.
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On April 26 2015 09:12 KelsierSC wrote:
I dunno mate you just seem a little bit rustled about someone who does a fuck ton of starcraft stuff . Like if you hate somebody just hate them in private don't make a fucking blog about that shit. what is wrong with you.
I just fail to see how doing stuff for SC gives you an excuse for being a prick. There's no excuse for being a prick, it doesn't matter how much you contribute. TB seems to think that because he's a content creator he can bully whoever he likes. And he fails to recognise the recurring theme that a lot of people hate this. I mean, his blog got closed by a mod (thank God for Chill!), and he still hasn't figured out that HE was the one being a dickhead there. Instead he came here to shit on more people. I haven't met anybody less self-aware than that.
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On April 26 2015 08:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 08:14 ninazerg wrote:On April 26 2015 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh look, a whole thread of haters.
Thanks to Boxerfred for his essay length diatribe creating yet more unneeded drama because his fee-fees got hurt after he decided to shitpost in a personal blog.
*Round of applause*
Also TIL that Day 1 of 2010 beta was the "height of eSports bandwagoning". Not only do we have a thread full of haters, we have a thread full of stupid haters. I can totally understand why you were offended by attempts to educate you now, you revel in your own ignorance, attempts to educate you break your headcanon and personal delusions.
No apologies, stand by everything I've said, will not walk around your eggshell feelings, I don't owe you a damn thing. Everyone who found that blog offensive is a delusional crybaby, its as simple as that. I'm never going to pander to you. You certainly never tip-toe around my feelings when you take time out of your day to shit on me and my work, as the toxic elements of this community have done for over 5 years now unfailingly day in day out, don't expect it to start now.
On April 25 2015 02:56 boxerfred wrote:- Whenever TB says something, he's right.
- Whenever TB gets criticized, he goes down the "you have no idea what you're talking about" road.
- Whenever someone tries to make a point although TB already gave a rude answer, TB goes down the insult road.
- Whenever someone feels insulted and expresses that, TB goes down the "lol you're oversensitive" road. Prime example is his current blog.
- TB is a guy who loves to talk about why he does what in the way he chose to do it.
- TB is a guy who tries to emphasize on sharing knowledge and giving insights.
Go fuck yourself :x If you were offended by that blog post you are irredeemable crybaby.
you realize the only reason you're not banned on TL are you're "achievements", right? Stop acting like your better than then everybody else, your a prime example of how people that feel over-important can ruin a community.
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Germany25649 Posts
Locking this before it gets worse, this thread got exactly the reaction I anticipated.
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Germany25649 Posts
We aren't deleting your account btw.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pN0rxmQ.png)
