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Some Metaphysical Questions in the Film Oblivion - Page 2

Blogs > MichaelDonovan
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MichaelDonovan
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1453 Posts
May 27 2014 05:45 GMT
#21
On May 27 2014 09:23 L3gendary wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 08:57 MichaelDonovan wrote:
On May 27 2014 06:46 L3gendary wrote:
I'd say that the concept of a personal identity is an entirely human concept without any physical relevance which can lead to seemingly paradoxical ideas (like the ship of Theseus). Most of the cells in our body die off and are replaced every few days or weeks but that doesn't lead most people to question their identity, yet when it comes to the teleportation device you seem very sure that the teleported person isn't really you.

What about this scenario, let's say it was possible to freeze someone and stop their brain activity entirely until some later time when they are unfrozen, would that person be identical to the original? Because if your criteria for identity is continuity of consciousness you'd be forced to say no. What if we replaced their cells one by one while they were frozen and shipped them to China. Would the result be any different than teleportation?

When you think about it taking some lump of matter and reconfiguring it based on the extracted information is not very different than what the body does to food when it is broken down and reconfigured to cells based on our DNA.

I also want to mention that there's a difference between cloning and teleportation. True cloning (creating copies) is not physically possible, which is different from biological cloning where you grow an entirely different person with a separate consciousness based on the same or similar DNA. With teleportation there's only a single consciousness at any one time and it would be identical to the original in every way, at least in theory - actually pulling off teleportation with more than a single particle would be practically difficult.

Cryogenic freezing has already been brought up. My response to this objection is that with teleportation, the particles that compose your original body are not the same particles that compose the supposed "you" on the other end of the teleporter. It is possible for your body to be scanned and built on the other end of the teleporter without your original body being destroyed. This would result in two copies, two separate consciousnesses, and thus two different individuals. This is why I say that the you on the other end of the teleporter is not you, but a copy. That's why it's different from freezing.


Like I mentioned the cells in your body are constantly dying and new ones are being formed so you are not composed of all the same particles from day to day. Also, it's not possible for your body to be scanned completely without simultaneously destroying it due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle which is why cloning is impossible and why a lot of these hypothetical teleportation scenarios assume that the original is destroyed. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem


There being a theorem which says that cloning is impossible is irrelevant to the question. Even if by natural laws it is impossible, it is still not absolutely impossible because it is conceivable. As long as it is conceivable, we can use it in argument because as long as reason does not forbid it, then it can be plugged in to rational systems to construct an argument.

Another example of this kind of thing is a Frankfurt counterexample to classical free will being necessary for moral responsibility. The idea is that in order to be held morally responsible for one's actions, one must have the ability to do otherwise (classical free will). Frankfurt's counterexample is something like:

An evil scientist wants Fred to rob a bank. He installs a brain control device in Fred's brain such that if Fred chooses not to rob the bank, the machine will immediately activate and make him choose to rob the bank. If Fred chooses to rob the bank of his own accord, then the machine will not activate. So in the case that Fred chooses to rob the bank of his own accord, it would seem like he's morally responsible, but if he chooses not to and the brain machine makes him choose to, then it would seem like he's not really morally responsible for robbing the bank. Either way, Fred will rob the bank, so he doesn't have the ability to do otherwise (classical free will). But we still hold him responsible for robbing the bank if he does it on his own. This is to say that classical free will is not necessary for moral responsibility.

Now, Frankfurt examples can get a little hairy and it's not like you can't argue with them. My point, however, is that even though something like a brain control machine is probably impossible (let's just say that it is impossible by natural law), that doesn't mean you can't use it as an example for a rational argument. It's just a kind of "what if" thing that helps us get at ideas a little deeper. Does that make sense?
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