EPTHave you met a Night Elf?
Chin up Ret (:
StarCraft - Page 2
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Have you met a Night Elf? Chin up Ret (: | ||
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RakeSC2
Norway37 Posts
Right now we know lotv is coming, and with it the potential for big changes, but I fear once lotv is released and potentially new game issues arise people will lose all faith in the game if Blizzard has never tried to fix these outside expansions. | ||
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JazVM
Germany1196 Posts
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4520 Posts
something like this might be worth temporarily messing around with.. There are a million ways to discuss changes or patches, there is no one solution readily available - what matters is that there are plenty of people out there willing to give feedback and want to see changes for the better, we need to find a way to cooperate with blizzard and see if we can make a positive influence on where the game is going. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On January 08 2014 06:45 JayPower wrote: Great read, thanks for posting a detailled elaboration on your statement. I have one question though. I see almost every pro-player have opinion on what is bad / boring / overpowered / underpowered and everyone is very good at pointing out in what way exactly. However, I see almost no one coming up with a solution for the problems they see themselves. You constantly say yourself that you've been playing this game for 14 years, why don't you suggest changes yourself. If you can get a lot of attention saying that this game is shit, I'm sure you can get a lot of attention explaining why this game is shit and make a change. Many top players have made very detailed analyses of SC2, what is wrong with it and how to fix it. Many people agreed with these top players, and many people went to Blizzard asking for change. Change never came. Ret's seeming defeatism on the matter makes sense; Blizzard needs to change their mentality towards these issues before we ever even contemplate real change happening. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On January 08 2014 06:52 ninazerg wrote: I really REALLY don't understand why all the old top foreigners don't come back and play BroodWar... SC2 isn't going to get any better. If you don't love the game by now, you're not gonna wake up tomorrow and go "Wow, this game is great today!". Yeah, they could move to some shitty MOBA game, because there is a bit of money in that arena, but BroodWar is where the love is. Brood war will live forever!!! △△△△△△!! | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
A genuine and optimistic, even grateful!!?! blog about the state of sc2. I have tears of joy. Thank you Ret. Well said. You and TLO are great for this community in terms of equanimity and thoughtful contributions. Golden has also been really making great things happen recently  I really REALLY don't understand why all the old top foreigners don't come back and play BroodWar... SC2 isn't going to get any better. If you don't love the game by now, you're not gonna wake up tomorrow and go "Wow, this game is great today!". Yeah, they could move to some shitty MOBA game, because there is a bit of money in that arena, but BroodWar is where the love is. This is myopic, in my opinion. SC/SC:BW went through a number of iterations and patches before it became the game people think of today. There is absolutely no reason to think that SC2 cannot improve. That its maps, strategies, and design cannot continue to develop. HotS is much better than WoL, and things can and will continue to improve. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
one thing above all others; make sure the game is FUN Who cares if the winrates are 50-50 if the game is like it is now. From a spectator point of view the current meta gets boring extremely fast. Of course, this is not just blizzards fault. From day one we had people screaming about only having long macro games and the winrates must be exactly equal no matter what. What we ended up with was a balanced game... with little to no variation. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On January 08 2014 06:52 ninazerg wrote: I really REALLY don't understand why all the old top foreigners don't come back and play BroodWar... SC2 isn't going to get any better. If you don't love the game by now, you're not gonna wake up tomorrow and go "Wow, this game is great today!". Yeah, they could move to some shitty MOBA game, because there is a bit of money in that arena, but BroodWar is where the love is. Cause Ret's an exception, most of the top foreigners came from WC3 (Naniwa, Grubby, the Duran brothers) or weren't progamers before SC2. (Scarlett) It's silly to tell foreigners to go back to BW when most aren't from it in the first place. Also BW was never successful outside of Korea, so if SC2 mysteriously disappeared overnight, the foreign scene would go back to WC3, which actually had a large non-Korean tournament circuit. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On January 08 2014 08:40 nkr wrote: blizzard needs to take the same approach as they have to hearthstone one thing above all others; make sure the game is FUN Who cares if the winrates are 50-50 if the game is like it is now. From a spectator point of view the current meta gets boring extremely fast. Of course, this is not just blizzards fault. From day one we had people screaming about only having long macro games and the winrates must be exactly equal no matter what. What we ended up with was a balanced game... with little to no variation. watch pl if you want variation. almost half of the games aren't standard and some new maps are really cool. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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RHWY
Ireland43 Posts
On January 08 2014 09:10 sparklyresidue wrote: Although I don't think it's his responsibility to do so, in writing this out clearly and plainly, Ret once again shows why he's a great player and addition to the scene. Only someone who cares so much would bother responding in such a humble, honest way. Trouble is these kind of posts come out infrequently and there almost needs to be a combination of posts with a really focused vocal backing from other people in the spotlight so that it picks up traction. Too many voices can drown out the importance of the message. Not that Jos would want it but you do need a line of communication open from the players/fans/teams/media people to Blizzard. All the information prioritized and funnelled through a person with a clear message. I dont think the communication is there yet. | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Why is David Kim still in charge of balancing Starcraft 2? Wasn't the Patch 1.4.3 Queen buff a big enough warning of his sheer incompetence as a balance designer? Just look at reasons given in their balance testing map post. Zergs are struggling to hold aggressive openers when they play greedy-as-fuck? Oh I know, let's buff an economical unit's attack range so that it can easily hold early game Hellion, Marine, Reaper and Gateway aggression, so that Zergs can focus their entire time on getting 80 drones and not need to play reactively in the slightest. David Kim's logic for buffing the Queen (so that aggressive openers like 2 rax and hellion expand are obsolete vs the greediest possible Zerg opener and the standard TvZ and PvZ meta becomes greedy play) is so stupid that I am shocked everybody has forgiven and forgotten the days of late-WoL. There's also the fact that the changes were only done to 'slight adjust play at the pro level' when it actually broke every aspect of the game. I don't think the problem is communication. I think it's outright ignorance of professional player opinion and logic. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
. And I also agree that Bunny is doing a great job with WCS, we just need someone from the design/balance team to be in close contact in the community and especially the pros/coaches etc. Then as long as they are still willing to make changes and improve the game all will be good I think.What worries me the most is, that iNcontrol once said that he heard from Blizzard that they basically look at the multiplayer as complete. Apart from simple patches they don't want to change anything really and not even with LotV. No new (or old) units, no changes to the economy or the micro aspects. I hope this info proves to be wrong. | ||
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rel
Guam3521 Posts
On January 08 2014 06:52 ninazerg wrote: I really REALLY don't understand why all the old top foreigners don't come back and play Brood War... SC2 isn't going to get any better. If you don't love the game by now, you're not gonna wake up tomorrow and go "Wow, this game is great today!". Yeah, they could move to some shitty MOBA game, because there is a bit of money in that arena, but Brood War is where the love is. I agree 100% with NinaZerg.. but I also understand that you have an awesome thing going with team liquid and you really love what tl is about. Maybe you would feel like you're abandoning them if you switched. But as long as you can find any enjoyment in SC2 keep a hold to it... Brood War will never go away. | ||
kimaphan
United States43 Posts
The interaction takes place more than you all realize and with many professional players who are highly skilled and have a history of providing useful feedback. It's not possible for the team to interact with every professional player in the scene, nor is it productive or efficient to crowdsource the process from start to finish. But I assure you discussions take place every time before we make a change, even if it's something small as a forum post on a hypothetical change. | ||
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tns
1054 Posts
SC2 was shit I have to explain why [...] There was the Reality/Hydra mech game on Star Station too. [...] It made me sad having to watch my favourite players play these type of games I'm not quite sure of the meaning, what is Ret's feeling? Zerg's feeling? Terran's feeling? or eSport's fans feeling? (Well... I felt Hydra threw that game away...) | ||
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provrorsbarn
Sweden766 Posts
Only thing we can do (except posting on TL,reddit etc) is to make custom maps to try out changes ourselves instead of just waiting around for years and praying that they will fix it for us.... | ||
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mechengineer123
Ukraine711 Posts
On January 08 2014 09:25 Clbull wrote: This is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I feel it has to be said. Why is David Kim still in charge of balancing Starcraft 2? Wasn't the Patch 1.4.3 Queen buff a big enough warning of his sheer incompetence as a balance designer? Just look at reasons given in their balance testing map post. Zergs are struggling to hold aggressive openers when they play greedy-as-fuck? Oh I know, let's buff an economical unit's attack range so that it can easily hold early game Hellion, Marine, Reaper and Gateway aggression, so that Zergs can focus their entire time on getting 80 drones and not need to play reactively in the slightest. David Kim's logic for buffing the Queen (so that aggressive openers like 2 rax and hellion expand are obsolete vs the greediest possible Zerg opener and the standard TvZ and PvZ meta becomes greedy play) is so stupid that I am shocked everybody has forgiven and forgotten the days of late-WoL. There's also the fact that the changes were only done to 'slight adjust play at the pro level' when it actually broke every aspect of the game. I don't think the problem is communication. I think it's outright ignorance of professional player opinion and logic. The patch was obviously a huge mistake, but mistakes can happen. However, the real problem is that he didn't do jack about it for 1.5 years after the patch, even though it was clearly breaking the game. Back on topic: I mostly agree with what Ret said. Deep down I will always love sc2, but it's just really painful to see the game suffer from obvious design issues that could definitely be fixed with a healthy feedback<->patch cycle. The community is alive and there are plenty of experts with insane amounts of experience walking around that could provide invaluable input. If only Blizzard put their mind to it, this game could be amazing ;_; | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
By this I mean that anyone invited to Blizz HQ and was clearly offered an opportunity to give feedback should've stood firm TOGETHER and put the foot down and say we aren't playing this game if all these mbs/economy/deathball [ take your pick. the blatant problems like miss chance uphill or the huge discoveries made by lalush and others about the mining efficiency ] Obviously that's hyperbole but look at what Sonic has done and I think deep down any semipro broodwar player and lover can't help but smile at that and realize that their heart was in that game while sc2 is just borrowing the name. Jangbi, Bisu, Jinro, Nony, etc. Inertia and inevitability was making everyone switch to the ' new game ' but think about how different it might have been. Or whenever there was a chance at an interview with DUSTIN BROWDER or DAVID KIM. If interviewers just refused to let go of questions and get in their face a little bit about how awful something obviously was [ again take your pick from WoL and beta like early protoss warpins for example ] and let them not move onto any other questions until they directly answered it, I think that would've done infinity times more for the ' game ' than what we ended up doing which was essentially pussyfooting around to write some community website article thats long forgotten or to just be amazed that you got to tour Blizz HQ or whatever. ' Hey why don't we have chat channels and bnet 1.0 capability BEFORE FACEBOOK INTEGRATION? In the year 2010+ mind you ' If you compare fighting game interviews or hell even real life journalists with developers or community managers its way different than sc2 was. Like hey, you fucked up the frames of this character while purportedly wanting to keep the ' gameplay ' the same. You fucked up. That's why nobody wants to play that character/your game. Thoughts? My humble and unpopular opinion. | ||
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