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I dont get it. I dont understand what are they doing, what are they thinking and what are they planning.
The matchmaking system is not as terrible as people said, but it was designed so poorly toward the 2 spectrums of the ladder scale.
Few days ago I posted this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19660010
On September 03 2013 04:48 NB wrote:Ok, havent posted in this thread for a while so here i go: WHAT THE FUCK does new players with less than 10 hours into dota2 doing in the fucking VERYHIGH bracket games? Seriously, the last 2 games of mine i got players who just brand new... And these are supposed to be top tier games as some others players actually has 2000-3000 hours invested in. First game: + Show Spoiler +http://dotabuff.com/matches/2964591972nd game: + Show Spoiler +http://dotabuff.com/matches/296496779Like... its not even party matchmaking bc in game 2, all the PL talked was chinese and the pudge keep asking him if he speak english. So in a sense, the dota2 matchmaking is failing miserably by ruining both veteran players experience and new players experience. I am seriously shock. You can notice how this is not well written bc im really.... out of words. I really dont know how to describe what im feeling right now: disappointed, bitter, anger, disbelief,.... And both of them are veryhigh games.... I dont even...
At first I thought its just a rare error, a small flaw in the system and complained about it. But apparently this issue has been going on repeatedly since before TI and may be date back years since they last fundamentally change their philosophy design on the match making system.
Surfing through the absurd, poorly moderated dev forum Misc. section. You would expect several cases of QQ complain posts but occasionally you could spot some people who were truely concern about the game and know what they are talking about. Flaws, error, bug, poor design, you name it. But only until today I stumble upon a case that I, myself, couldnt justify by any scientifical mean.
Take a look at this game:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZVPCWpg.png)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/298665565
Here are the profile of 2 teams, with myself included:
Radiant:
+ Show Spoiler +Invoker ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ml3cmnU.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4l1TzZp.png) WR ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r196rxj.png) SF(Me) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EZZiucf.png) Rubick ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KgmQ0Yd.png) Furion ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GhLoHcx.png)
Dire:
+ Show Spoiler +
No I know where you are about to go with this: but... but... number of win does not represent the MMR NB!!! Well shit, this isnt a problem with MMR anymore, its a problem where they are straight up matching new players with veteran and call it an even match.
As you can see, by the rough data those picture represent, both teams should have 'even' team MMR as well as 'even' lowest bound MMR which they recently added as a condition of the match making. My issue is that how does a player with 8 games in his account, 50% winrate, got matched into a veryhigh MMR with other veteran players? Isnt the matchmaking supposed to prevent this from happening?
As a veteran, it is really annoying for me seeing a new players in my game. Its not about winning or losing, its about how me or any other could exploit them to the finest details. The MMR supposed to PROTECT those new comers from players... like me. We are veterans, we play differently, we act differently, we even use different languages to communicated(if you have less than 10 hours in dota2, the chance of you not knowing Clinkz others nick name is pretty damn high). The game will be extremely enjoyable for both parties. We are not talking about 1 team robbing the fun from others. We are talking about games where its so one sided the winning team just want to get it over with and hope to get a better game. And dont even mention the losing side, no one like getting an undeserved lose.
Now the chance of that account being a smurf is there. I mean, lets be real, he does pick SF/pudge/invoker. But in what universe does a smurf with 50% winrate made it to what supposed to be the top 1% of the player base? Is 5 millions people just that terrible or Valve matchmaking has a problem, i will let you decide.
https://twitter.com/LuminousInverse/status/374606837137416192 @LuminousInverse I don't mind waiting for 30mins for a good game instead of wasting 30min of my time where mm fails @dota2 + Show Spoiler +
I think Lumi sum it up best. People would rather play with bot or even not playing than getting an uneven game. Who would enjoy hitting their head against a wall repeatedly? The matchmaking is the CORE of the user experience in DotA2 and as long as it is not functioning properly, I think the game will not be able to grow up to its full potential.
If you are a Valve dev and reading this, I just wana say that im appreciate your time into reading my complain but YOU need to learn from Blizzard wreck train: start communicating openly with your players, your communities' representatives(pros?) and listen to the (filtered)concerns. There will be constructive feedbacks if you wish to listen them.
P/s: also, as i demonstrated in this blog, hiding player win count does nothing. If i want to QQ about something, I could always check out people profile and their hours into dota. If somebody has their profile set to private, I could easily assume that they are experienced enough to have more than 10 hours into the game.
 
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im not sure, but ive never experienced having a total noob in my games, yes there appears to be way more shitty players in top10 pages these days, but ive never ever had someone "new"
seems like a failure in the smurf detection somehow i suppose.
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I've be lead to understand that if you stomp your first couple of games it will shoot you very high very quickly. I can see why though, you have to ask, who would your rather protect? The newbies who have to play against a pub stomper? or the veterans who have proven that they will press the next match button?
Idk though, I suck at dota2 so there's always someone floundering around. Usually me :D
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The "simplified" valve match finding for Counterstrike-GO is annoying too!
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It's obvious all of those with few hours are playing on their alt accounts. Perhaps part of the match making process involves moving those that do fairly decent as they start out to very high and if they can't handle the heat, they will get pushed down.
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On September 05 2013 10:53 JumboJohnson wrote:
I've be lead to understand that if you stomp your first couple of games it will shoot you very high very quickly. I can see why though, you have to ask, who would your rather protect? The newbies who have to play against a pub stomper? or the veterans who have proven that they will press the next match button?
Idk though, I suck at dota2 so there's always someone floundering around. Usually me :D
there is a possibility that in game performance could affect your MMR BUT we are looking at a 50% winrate player with less than 10 game. He was 4-4 going into this Very High match and by no reason he belongs here.
Look at sc2 for example. They do have a system called Bonus Pool where points will be distribute to player over time and those point only be spent toward your ranking when you actually win a game. With that system, you could make sure that cases like this never happen.;
On September 05 2013 10:59 thoraxe wrote:
It's obvious all of those with few hours are playing on their alt accounts. Perhaps part of the match making process involves moving those that do fairly decent as they start out to very high and if they can't handle the heat, they will get pushed down.
So by your suggestion, you are wasting other players time for an unranked match in order to calibrate a new player MMR. A placement match that rank you into the top 1% while you have 50% winrate in a small sample size just doesnt make any sense. That not even counting that having a placement match system in place, wasting others players time and ruining their enjoyment in order to calibrate 1 person MMR is just plain wrong.
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I think you're ignoring the stats behind the wins, maybe he went 15-0 his first game. It doesn't look like the profiles show the scores of the wins and losses. Maybe there's some info that we are missing.
Edit: Also I fail to grasp your bonus pool theory. If fills if you don't play often so it seems that that would just help balance people who play a lot and people who play rarely.
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Oh wow, game stats are taken into account in MM? Always thought it was pure win/loss or something. I mean, depending on the role, etc...right? :X
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On September 05 2013 11:42 Aerisky wrote:
Oh wow, game stats are taken into account in MM? Always thought it was pure win/loss or something. I mean, depending on the role, etc...right? :X
Games stats probally are not ussually taken into account, but it appears Valve has an anti-smurf system that works fairly well, a good player that starts a new account rises in rank extremelly quickly. Because of that, a popular theory is that your stats in your first games may be relevant. After your MMR is stable I would say it's unlikely stats play a relevant role.
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28084 Posts
On September 05 2013 11:42 Aerisky wrote:
Oh wow, game stats are taken into account in MM? Always thought it was pure win/loss or something. I mean, depending on the role, etc...right? :X
From what valve says they aren't taken into account except for initial smurf detection. If you look at this guys second game he crushed on Warlock, also he was queueing with a friend who is a very high player. With the combination of smurf detection and your confidence interval he was probably skyrocketed into the very high bracket. This is quite common as I have tested it multiple times, where I have soloed into very high after 1 game, and have reached page 10 level games after 15-20 wins. My main took like 300 wins to get there because I was legitimately new when I made that account.
Now there are other reasons for low win people to be in high level games other than smurf detection, such as queueing with friends, etc.
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The problem with these new players is that they haven't played enough matches for the matchmaking to figure out how good they are. They have to placed in games nonetheless.
The easy way to eliminate your problem - bad players in high level games - is to make sure everybody plays more games at the lower ratings before they can be promoted. This way, you push the problem over to the lower rated games, where there will be more smurfs stomping.
The only other option is to have new accounts in an entirely separate queue, which creates its own host of problems.
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A player should not be put into the top 1% of MM with less than 20 games played unless they win like all of them.
Saw singsing playing solo and he got someone on his team with less than 10 games played who was obviously completely new to the game (they just ran into creeps and died). Valve's system needs to be reworked. I think they are way too far onto the antismurf side of things. They should match potential smurfs with potential smurfs until like 50+ games and not with veterans.
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Watch the game and then please explain to me how the invoker is the one that lost the game for you
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As a new player (~ 40 played games) I don't feel that this has been a problem for me.
E: Meaning that I haven't run into players who has way more games played than me
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LOL! In the first game @14 minutes, Luminous just realizes he has a Ricki on his team, pings him, and checks his score. You can literally feel the despair grow inside of him.
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Valve has probably the worst matchmaking system in any game I have played and I have played a lot of competitive games. The fact that they don't use something so simple and already in place (elo) boggles my mind.
I feel like Valve is trying to reinvent the wheel when despite what Valve drones think we already have a perfectly working system. League of legends and Hon use straight up ELO and it works completely fine, sure their presentation of the ELO might be a cause for concern but the base matchmaking itself works completely fine, it's simply Valve being Valve and it's sadly ruining the non professional side of the game. The fact that because of the lack of a ladder LoL is the more competitive game when Dota is touted as the more "hardcore" game should raise red flags in all Dota fans.
Unfortunately two things aren't going to happen
1) we aren't going to get a ladder queue with real ranks so we can be sure we are matched evenly
2) we aren't going to see a competent non ranked matchmaking because Valve is showing no intention of fixing it.
Honestly, this is going to cause a "Brood War Effect" soon where the competitive community moves to In houses and ladders and MM is left to the extremely casual or lazy players, mark my words. The fix for this is MMR transparency and an actual ladder.
The "I'm scared of any kind of criticism so hide all my info" cry baby casual attitude the Vocal majority has been yelling at Valve since release is ruining the game.
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Could you check the history of "pgg" and see if his games are him stacking with anyone else on your team previously?
That could 100% account for him being matched with you, think about it
"pgg" and person b stack together for 3 matches, win all 3 and "pgg"'s mmr is boosted substantially because of person b's existing mmr leading to them vs'ing high mmr players straight off the bat.
edit: the emulator sums it up pretty well, likely better worded than I did but you get the idea
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28084 Posts
On September 05 2013 15:44 ReignSupreme. wrote:
Could you check the history of "pgg" and see if his games are him stacking with anyone else on your team previously?
That could 100% account for him being matched with you, think about it
"pgg" and person b stack together for 3 matches, win all 3 and "pgg"'s mmr is boosted substantially because of person b's existing mmr leading to them vs'ing high mmr players straight off the bat.
If you look at his dotabuff he has played 7 times with one guy who is a very high level player. That along with smurf detection can skew his mmr quite a bit.
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You have over 4000 games played, and your complaining about one. These types of mmr mixes are few and far between.
While I agree the mm needs work, the example you have provided is a 'outlier' which we can ignore...
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Yeah, played my first game of Dota 2 yesterday... Nearly all of the players were complete noobs, apart from Kunkka on my team, who got 31-0. I got the second best score with 8-3...
Means back to Starcraft for me.
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On September 05 2013 12:36 LeLoup wrote:
Watch the game and then please explain to me how the invoker is the one that lost the game for you
again, if you post like this you clearly havent read my post. The POINT isnt about winning or losing.+ Show Spoiler +(in fact, i think the invoker played decently and should be avg skill level wise, the one who lost that game for us was rubick with the lack of supportive play)
1/ The matchmaking doesnt function correctly mathematically. It is matching new players with veterans.
2/ The definition of 'good match' that they are working with are generally wrong. With the skill differences too wide, players will not be able to understand each others actions and therefore result in no coordination. The match will be 1 sided regardless of you being on winning or losing side.
All of my complains has never been about why i lose a game. As you can see, the very first game that in my quote were me winning vs Luminous team and i still complain on how that was a shit match.
On September 05 2013 15:44 ReignSupreme. wrote:
Could you check the history of "pgg" and see if his games are him stacking with anyone else on your team previously?
That could 100% account for him being matched with you, think about it
"pgg" and person b stack together for 3 matches, win all 3 and "pgg"'s mmr is boosted substantially because of person b's existing mmr leading to them vs'ing high mmr players straight off the bat.
edit: the emulator sums it up pretty well, likely better worded than I did but you get the idea
I didnt check his match details but since he has only 2 'friends' attached to his account, assuming at least 1 of those is his main account, I skipped the party MMR boost checking. But you are completely correct that the possibility is there.
On September 05 2013 13:44 WindWolf wrote:
As a new player (~ 40 played games) I don't feel that this has been a problem for me.
E: Meaning that I haven't run into players who has way more games played than me
Thats because you dont understand the full impact of the problem. Imagine yourself being a noob FPS player and jump into Quake right now, or noob broodwar player trying to ladder on iccup, with no functioning matchmaking, you WILL get matched with veterans who will crush you down brutally and repeatedly. Having such games exist from the first place will discourage new players from playing+learning the game as well as demoralizing the veterans enjoyment for the game plus nullify the match result.
Given this is a minor case of valve matchmaking, things are not that terrible YET but a fix is definitely required.
On September 05 2013 16:44 run.at.me wrote:
You have over 4000 games played, and your complaining about one. These types of mmr mixes are few and far between.
While I agree the mm needs work, the example you have provided is a 'outlier' which we can ignore...
i agree with the possibility of the match being 'outlier'. But I get 3 games like such in the time frame of less than 48 hours, I dont think it could be ignored. Remember that dota2 games have the avg length of 35-45 mins. That combines with the match finding time make it 1 hour. So if the matchmaking essentially telling 10 people to waste 1 hour each of their life because they are too new or too old for it to function properly, I think there are fixes need to be done.
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I have no idea how you can say this:
1/ The matchmaking doesnt function correctly mathematically. It is matching new players with veterans.
There's no "math" in your posts that show the matchmaking doesn't work. The system is not supposed to separate new players from veterans or match people by hours played. It's supposed to match people by skill level. Obviously there is some correlation between the two, but if in that game the Invoker wasn't an worse player than his team members, there's no reason why he shouldn't be there.
There is an issue if the system matches people of vastly diferent skill levels, no matter the amount of games they played. There is no issue if the system matches people with a vastly diferent amount of games played, if they have similar skill.
That's why how the Invoker played is very relevant, and why good players quickly moving to the top is a positive, not negative, effect. The issue is when the system does that to not so good players.
You say the issue is that the system is matching completelly new players with veterans, yet gives an example of a guy that is clearly not a new player. He knew how to play the game.
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How do you know the enemy players weren't a five stack or something? There's nothing in place that prevents players who are good at the game from partying up with total noobs, and the matchmaking may be trying to balance the teams by approximating this disparity on the other side.
This is not based on any facts I know, just some random speculation, so don't take it too seriously unless someone happens to confirm it :D
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On September 06 2013 01:45 SKC wrote:I have no idea how you can say this: Show nested quote +1/ The matchmaking doesnt function correctly mathematically. It is matching new players with veterans. There's no "math" in your posts that show the matchmaking doesn't work. The system is not supposed to separate new players from veterans or match people by hours played. It's supposed to match people by skill level. Obviously there is some correlation between the two, but if in that game the Invoker wasn't an worse player than his team members, there's no reason why he shouldn't be there. There is an issue if the system matches people of vastly diferent skill levels, no matter the amount of games they played. There is no issue if the system matches people with a vastly diferent amount of games played, if they have similar skill. That's why how the Invoker played is very relevant, and why good players quickly moving to the top is a positive, not negative, effect. The issue is when the system does that to not so good players. You say the issue is that the system is matching completelly new players with veterans, yet gives an example of a guy that is clearly not a new player. He knew how to play the game.
Feel free to check out the 2 games that i have in the quote for example. What i mean by math was the invoker guy had exactly 50% winrate with a tiny sample size and being matched into very high game. Yes his mmr could be skewered up by his very high MMR friend but isnt that the flaw of the system? In the game he plays with me, he was solo queue and there were no one there to skewer him up. The fact that he lose repeatedly after reach 50% point out that his predicted MMR was inaccurate when he got matched with me and the system is no punishing him for previously partying with his friend.
Look at the first game where i beat luminous for example: very high MMR, the RIKI had 25 last hit in a 30 mins game. Imagine you being a new player and got matched with all the veterans who expected you to do your job like a pro. Its demoralizing for both him and the rest of the players in that game including me. That riki is a clear example of a false smurf detection which result a failure in match making generating good result.
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On September 06 2013 02:17 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 01:45 SKC wrote:I have no idea how you can say this: 1/ The matchmaking doesnt function correctly mathematically. It is matching new players with veterans. There's no "math" in your posts that show the matchmaking doesn't work. The system is not supposed to separate new players from veterans or match people by hours played. It's supposed to match people by skill level. Obviously there is some correlation between the two, but if in that game the Invoker wasn't an worse player than his team members, there's no reason why he shouldn't be there. There is an issue if the system matches people of vastly diferent skill levels, no matter the amount of games they played. There is no issue if the system matches people with a vastly diferent amount of games played, if they have similar skill. That's why how the Invoker played is very relevant, and why good players quickly moving to the top is a positive, not negative, effect. The issue is when the system does that to not so good players. You say the issue is that the system is matching completelly new players with veterans, yet gives an example of a guy that is clearly not a new player. He knew how to play the game. Feel free to check out the 2 games that i have in the quote for example. What i mean by math was the invoker guy had exactly 50% winrate with a tiny sample size and being matched into very high game. Yes his mmr could be skewered up by his very high MMR friend but isnt that the flaw of the system? In the game he plays with me, he was solo queue and there were no one there to skewer him up. The fact that he lose repeatedly after reach 50% point out that his predicted MMR was inaccurate when he got matched with me and the system is no punishing him for previously partying with his friend. Look at the first game where i beat luminous for example: very high MMR, the RIKI had 25 last hit in a 30 mins game. Imagine you being a new player and got matched with all the veterans who expected you to do your job like a pro. Its demoralizing for both him and the rest of the players in that game including me. That riki is a clear example of a false smurf detection which result a failure in match making generating good result.
The issue with the other examples is that they are anonymous, so we can't really see how they got there of if they were stacking. They were still more valid complaints than the Invoker guy.
The point is that you made a whole blog post just to talk about this guy that clearly (as you said so yourself) has the skill to play at that level. So you made a whole blog about something that is working the way it's supposed to. We can't know exactly how he got there, but there is no reason why him being there is an issue. Perhaps if you chose a better example things would be diferent, but then there could be other explanations on how they got there. We don't know, since you didn't.
You can't make a blog about how worried you are at the experience of new players facing veterans and then as your prime example show a match that clearly has no new players. It hurts your argument more than anything.
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As I said in reply to your QQ post too, this isn't rare, uncommon or even unreasonable to happend. I've had one of the people in my stack changing account, and then still continue to play in very high bracket in his very first game.
I've had very high within 10 games on a new account duo queuing, because the smurf detection is really good, and I honestly belong there over playing with normal players for the next 100 games.
Like I said there, hours ingame on that account, games played on that account, winrate, all of that is useless information, because it's so easy to just change steam account for a new account. It tells you nothing about the player, except how much he played on that specific account alone.
Lots of people complain about mmr in general too, but that's only because it's such a snowball game that can so easily go either way. Just look at the international finals. The two best teams stomped each other the 3 first games, it wasnt even close.
Personal skill, mood, daily form, luck/rng all factor in how people play, and it will make one game to the next vastly different.
Just look at my meepo stats, how vastly up/down they go from game to game. It can be anything from me being horrible, outlaning, heroes,tons of mud golems spawning early game to prevent my levels to skyrocket.
Dota has so many details that matters so much more than a few hours of gameplay, no matter how entitled you are to stay away from those "pesky 10 hours played scrubs".
On September 06 2013 02:17 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 01:45 SKC wrote:I have no idea how you can say this: 1/ The matchmaking doesnt function correctly mathematically. It is matching new players with veterans. There's no "math" in your posts that show the matchmaking doesn't work. The system is not supposed to separate new players from veterans or match people by hours played. It's supposed to match people by skill level. Obviously there is some correlation between the two, but if in that game the Invoker wasn't an worse player than his team members, there's no reason why he shouldn't be there. There is an issue if the system matches people of vastly diferent skill levels, no matter the amount of games they played. There is no issue if the system matches people with a vastly diferent amount of games played, if they have similar skill. That's why how the Invoker played is very relevant, and why good players quickly moving to the top is a positive, not negative, effect. The issue is when the system does that to not so good players. You say the issue is that the system is matching completelly new players with veterans, yet gives an example of a guy that is clearly not a new player. He knew how to play the game. Feel free to check out the 2 games that i have in the quote for example. What i mean by math was the invoker guy had exactly 50% winrate with a tiny sample size and being matched into very high game. Yes his mmr could be skewered up by his very high MMR friend but isnt that the flaw of the system? In the game he plays with me, he was solo queue and there were no one there to skewer him up. The fact that he lose repeatedly after reach 50% point out that his predicted MMR was inaccurate when he got matched with me and the system is no punishing him for previously partying with his friend. Look at the first game where i beat luminous for example: very high MMR, the RIKI had 25 last hit in a 30 mins game. Imagine you being a new player and got matched with all the veterans who expected you to do your job like a pro. Its demoralizing for both him and the rest of the players in that game including me. That riki is a clear example of a false smurf detection which result a failure in match making generating good result.
Isn't that reasonable? No system can't possibly be perfect with a game like dota, so maybe he was wrong a game or two. Are you seriously going to complain about that?
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On September 06 2013 01:15 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 13:44 WindWolf wrote:
As a new player (~ 40 played games) I don't feel that this has been a problem for me.
E: Meaning that I haven't run into players who has way more games played than me Thats because you dont understand the full impact of the problem.
I do understand the problem; just not in this game. The match-making for the PC version of Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition sucks to put it mildly. It has affected me both as a new player when I started and it happens now at times as well when I'm more experienced with the game
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On September 06 2013 02:36 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 02:17 NB wrote:On September 06 2013 01:45 SKC wrote:I have no idea how you can say this: 1/ The matchmaking doesnt function correctly mathematically. It is matching new players with veterans. There's no "math" in your posts that show the matchmaking doesn't work. The system is not supposed to separate new players from veterans or match people by hours played. It's supposed to match people by skill level. Obviously there is some correlation between the two, but if in that game the Invoker wasn't an worse player than his team members, there's no reason why he shouldn't be there. There is an issue if the system matches people of vastly diferent skill levels, no matter the amount of games they played. There is no issue if the system matches people with a vastly diferent amount of games played, if they have similar skill. That's why how the Invoker played is very relevant, and why good players quickly moving to the top is a positive, not negative, effect. The issue is when the system does that to not so good players. You say the issue is that the system is matching completelly new players with veterans, yet gives an example of a guy that is clearly not a new player. He knew how to play the game. Feel free to check out the 2 games that i have in the quote for example. What i mean by math was the invoker guy had exactly 50% winrate with a tiny sample size and being matched into very high game. Yes his mmr could be skewered up by his very high MMR friend but isnt that the flaw of the system? In the game he plays with me, he was solo queue and there were no one there to skewer him up. The fact that he lose repeatedly after reach 50% point out that his predicted MMR was inaccurate when he got matched with me and the system is no punishing him for previously partying with his friend. Look at the first game where i beat luminous for example: very high MMR, the RIKI had 25 last hit in a 30 mins game. Imagine you being a new player and got matched with all the veterans who expected you to do your job like a pro. Its demoralizing for both him and the rest of the players in that game including me. That riki is a clear example of a false smurf detection which result a failure in match making generating good result. The issue with the other examples is that they are anonymous, so we can't really see how they got there of if they were stacking. They were still more valid complaints than the Invoker guy. The point is that you made a whole blog post just to talk about this guy that clearly (as you said so yourself) has the skill to play at that level. So you made a whole blog about something that is working the way it's supposed to. We can't know exactly how he got there, but there is no reason why him being there is an issue. Perhaps if you chose a better example things would be diferent, but then there could be other explanations on how they got there. We don't know, since you didn't. You can't make a blog about how worried you are at the experience of new players facing veterans and then as your prime example show a match that clearly has no new players. It hurts your argument more than anything.
I think i didnt make it clear. I think that because there are a smurf detection system in place, Valve indirectly, intentional or not, encouraging players to have smurf account. If you use any other existing matchmaking method, sc2 for example, you could see that the veteran ranking are rewarded with bonus pool and separate them from from the new ones which make smurfing useless because it will take them much longer to reach where they supposed to be.
Tbh, im not a design expert. If i were i would be doing this for money instead of writing a public blog and let everyone see it for free. But I see a flaw in the game i enjoy and I want it to be fixed. The blog didnt use that particular game as a PRIME example. This blog is simply just a follow up to the QQ post that previous posted and the game i posted should not be weighted any higher or lower than the other 2 games.
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On September 06 2013 04:23 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 01:15 NB wrote:On September 05 2013 13:44 WindWolf wrote:
As a new player (~ 40 played games) I don't feel that this has been a problem for me.
E: Meaning that I haven't run into players who has way more games played than me Thats because you dont understand the full impact of the problem. I do understand the problem; just not in this game. The match-making for the PC version of Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition sucks to put it mildly. It has affected me both as a new player when I started and it happens now at times as well when I'm more experienced with the game
again, i used the word IMPACT.
I think a lot of people understand the problem but not the consequence of having such problems.
On September 06 2013 03:02 kaztah wrote:
Isn't that reasonable? No system can't possibly be perfect with a game like dota, so maybe he was wrong a game or two. Are you seriously going to complain about that?
Again, you can see that in under 48 hours i get 3 games, 2 were consecutively, having such problem. And im pretty sure im not the only one as well as this is not the very first time such thing happen. The issue does have an impact on a group of player, no matter big or small, should still be resolved.
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Isn't it possible to get into top MM as a beginner by simply being part of a 5 man stack where the other 4 are top tier players? There's no way the system can balance the teams if the stack itself has such huge disparity in skill level.
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28084 Posts
On September 06 2013 04:40 Glacierz wrote:
Isn't it possible to get into top MM as a beginner by simply being part of a 5 man stack where the other 4 are top tier players? There's no way the system can balance the teams if the stack itself has such huge disparity in skill level.
Yeah. I 5 stacked with some friends once and one of them was on an account that had 0 games, and we still hit a page 3 game. Valve has mentioned that the mmr will skew a bit towards the higher rated players in a party, so that explains that.
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