This is in response to MarlieChurphy's statement that fat chicks are more sane in general. From what I've seen, a lot of the really hot girls have had their minds fucked so much by people running this PUA bullshit that it's almost impossible to fix and will only happen over extended periods of time. If you really want to give it a chance with a girl like that, it takes a lot of work and she won't always be in the best frame of mind. Let's play a little game here...
Imagine being out at the bar with your friends, just wanting to have a few drinks and dance and have fun. All of a sudden, some super attractive females come up to you. They say hi, then start hitting on your (somewhat uglier) friends and totally ignore you. Then eventually, when it seems that conversation with your friends has dried up, they move on to saying hi to you then walk away. Picture happening this 5-6 times in one night. Just as the last hot girl does this, the first returns, buys you a drink then insults you for a little while, while also delivering the odd compliment -- but not enough to make up for all the insults she just delivered. How do you feel at this point? Picture this happening, then they try to pull some fucked up shit like grabbing your dick or trying to make you do something you don't want to do. Eventually you resist, and they just laugh it off and tell you you're crazy; that there's no need to get so worked up about it, they were just kidding. They walk off, and the next girl comes back and does the same thing to you.
Eventually, after all of the girls have done this to you, you're ready to go home, feeling kinda shitty about yourself after everything that's just happened, but also intrigued with all the attention you got. Suddenly, one of the girls walks up, gets your phone number and gives you a kiss on the cheek goodnight and walks off. Another one of the girls walks by and slaps your ass. How do you feel now? A little confused but a slightly inflated ego? Suddenly a third girl )who you had the best conversation with and thought was probably the hottest) comes up to you, asks you a question, and starts kissing you before you can answer. She asks if you want to come back to her place to continue the conversation, maybe over a bottle of wine or something. What do you do?
So you get back to her house, talk for a bit, realize that she's actually a really cool person and is into a lot of the same things you are. After some drinks, you start kissing and everything just feels right. You feel perfectly comfortable and decide to sleep with her. The sex was a little sloppy from all the liquor, but still really good and you think you've stumbled across an amazing girl. You fall asleep cuddling with her with a huge smile on your face.
You wake up in the morning, she's still really cute, cool, and nice, but seems a touch distant. You leave her your phone number and tell her to call you if she wants to hang out again. She promises she will, kisses you, and flashes that sweet smile of hers that you fell in love with in the first place.
You wait for hours, days, and maybe even a week or two for this phone call. It doesn't come. She just ran game on you, and you were just another notch in her belt.
How does it feel? If this happened to you every time you went out to the bar, how would you feel? How would you react? Would you create some defenses so stuff like this doesn't happen again? How do you know if the next person you meet is for real or just trying to fuck you? You just want to live your life, have fun, and fall in love. How hard is that?
Your whole premise is completely flawed. None of these "tricks" would ever work on any person with even a modicum of self-respect. Seriously a random girl that I met less then an hour ago and talk to for maybe 5 minutes slaps my ass and that's an ego boost? No, I'm just confused and kinda creeped out at how inappropriate that was. Another hot girl comes to me asks me a question and then randomly starts kissing me? I'd tell her get off of me and that I don't feel comfortable doing that with someone who I don't know.
See the problem with PUA is that it is not simply a way to make it easy for shy guys to talk to girls. It actually has nothing to do with that. What PUA does is discards most normal human interactions in favor of weeding out people with any sort of self-respect and self-control, finding someone who has the best looks-to-insecurity ratio and then trick them into sleeping with you. You give PUA way too much credit. It doesn't create victims. There are many reasons why some women have extremely low self-esteem. PUA is simply a guide on how to prey on them.
On August 31 2013 00:08 iTzSnypah wrote: Replace Her with Him. I have no idea why you wrote it backwards, all it does is create replies like FryBender's.
I understand what he's trying to do but gender has nothing to do here. I'm sure PUA would work just as well on guys with low self-esteem as it does on girls but that doesn't change the fact that the self-esteem issues has nothing to do with the prevalence of PUA. PUA just takes advantage of it.
On August 31 2013 00:50 iTzSnypah wrote: PUA doesn't work on guys. A hot chick doesn't need to dilly dattle around with guys to end up in their pants...especially at the bar scene.
A hot guy who's got personality doesn't need to dilly dattle around with girls to end up with them either. A woman with nothing to offer a guy can still end up with a guy for a night who has no interest in her but depserately needs a confidence boost if she follows PUA guidelines.
On August 31 2013 00:50 iTzSnypah wrote: PUA doesn't work on guys. A hot chick doesn't need to dilly dattle around with guys to end up in their pants...especially at the bar scene.
I disagree. 'Girl Game' definitely exists and there are many variations of it just as in our Game.
That is definitely not why a lot of "hot" chicks are "crazy." In general I find that girls aren't crazy at all, they are just different from guys; not by a whole lot though. The same tricks that work on girls can work on guys, in fact it's popular to use pua-esque tricks on guys to get them to open up, it's what Dale Carnegie wrote about (except with more fanfare and less LRM bullshit). Style, or Neil Straus, wrote in his famous pick up artist book that he commonly used those same tricks on people he didn't want to date to get them to open up to him so he could interview them for the New York Times.
That said, girls tend to be "crazy." They tend to be crazy because they can expect a great guy because they are a hot commodity. They have confidence in their ability to get another guy, so there is no reason for them to do things that they find unseemly. That and the fact that guys have different levels of crazy, and some guys find a totally insane and controlling girl to be fine while others suffocate and want to punch the chick in the face. This story is such bullshit though. Girl's love doesn't work like that, and while maybe a small percentage of girls enjoy having many partners that they toss away, most want a singular, committed partner. Guys like spreading the seed, girls like a guy who'll stick around for a while. This situation isn't impossible, but there is no reason the guy should be taking love in the manner of the majority female style and the female in the majority male style except by pure coincidence.
Yeah i'm with docvoc. But to answer your question about how i'd feel, i will borrow some PUA advice. "Don't come from a place of scarcity, come from a place of abundance." What this means is that its my fault if i start clinging to someone after a one night stand that started at a bar.
Good luck with the fat girls dude. Nothin wrong with that!
OP, had a decent idea going but unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. #1 Guys and Girls do not work the same way, it's really surprising how different they can be at times. (for example a girl doesn't need to orgasm for sex to be good or even great, they just have to be relaxed and receptive with NO orgasm and have great sex.) #2 Rule of thumb, if a girl sleeps with a lot of guys regularly, she has low self esteem. If a guy sleeps with a lot of girls regularly, he has high self esteem. #3 This kind of weird being gamed all in one night thing isn't what's making the chick crazy. It's her childhood and traumas of that time. Her relationship with her dad (what kind of man he is), abusive (even just verbally), neglect, addict, abandoning, cheating, molesting, or even the relationship with the mother. She learns a chaotic life and it's wired in as normal and not only that, but the human brain understands this trauma as arousing and that forms into what is most attractive to her when she grows up. It's really not understood why that is, but people tend to try and recreate these traumas in their relationships. (some speculate that it's in order to try and 'right' them over and over). #4 The types of people you find at clubs and bars are generally going to fit into some category of childhood trauma like that. Almost everyone has had parents arguing in their house constantly, hit with a belt, had a absentee dad, alcoholic dad, druggy mom, mom with depression or something that seems normal and light, but actually plays a much larger role that people understand or will admit. "oh I put that behind me and I don't think about it anymore." Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. That's not good enough, and even with years of therapy some shit wired in is just not going to ever change (such as a kid who got molested by an old dude and it turned him gay). This is exactly why you would see those Maury shows where the chick was a dork/fat/ugly in school and teased and then she wanted to confront the main bully and then they ended up dating (even if the guy was way under her perceived league now). #5 Girls aren't attracted primarily on looks like guys are, that's more of a bonus, or a factor of a whole slew of things she will weigh. This is why females will read sexual novels and males look at porn, and rarely the other way around. This is why females really can't have NSA/FWB. The main thing they are attracted to is like position/status etc. etc.
I could go on with other reasons but you get the idea.
I had something else to say but I lost my train of thought because I am tired as shit. Maybe I will think of it later.
PS- A lot of fat chicks have been verbally abused their whole lives, so don't think they are 'safe'. Just generally lately the chicks who seem super chill and have their shit together are like 6's and/or could stand to hit the gym.
#2 Rule of thumb, if a girl sleeps with a lot of guys regularly, she has low self esteem. If a guy sleeps with a lot of girls regularly, he has high self esteem.
What the fucking fuck. Number of sex partners correlate to their self-esteem? Source please.
#3 This kind of weird being gamed all in one night thing isn't what's making the chick crazy. It's her childhood and traumas of that time. Her relationship with her dad (what kind of man he is), abusive (even just verbally), neglect, addict, abandoning, cheating, molesting, or even the relationship with the mother. She learns a chaotic life and it's wired in as normal and not only that, but the human brain understands this trauma as arousing and that forms into what is most attractive to her when she grows up. It's really not understood why that is, but people tend to try and recreate these traumas in their relationships. (some speculate that it's in order to try and 'right' them over and over).
Which "chick" exactly? A "not fat one"?
#4 The types of people you find at clubs and bars are generally going to fit into some category of childhood trauma like that. Almost everyone has had parents arguing in their house constantly, hit with a belt, had a absentee dad, alcoholic dad, druggy mom, mom with depression or something that seems normal and light, but actually plays a much larger role that people understand or will admit. "oh I put that behind me and I don't think about it anymore." Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
"People who go to clubs are generally traumatized" - what. Source please!
Interesting how so many people here don't like the story. Quite a few seem to have completely misinterpreted parts of it as well. I guess I got it better than others because I can empathize with the guy in the story very easily. The post was surprisingly enlightening in many different ways. For instance, I think I may now have a better idea why people hate PUAs. Definitely got a pleasant surprise reading this, 5/5.
Disclaimer: This post was rewritten and shortened significantly. I am aware of most of the potential problems with this blog and the idea it presents. I was going to cover them all in my post, but I decided that was an awful idea after I saw how big my post was getting. Not saying you shouldn't disagree with me, though. I'm not dumb enough to think I thought of everything. Got most of the basic stuff, though.
Chad Thundercock, you are more than what meets the eye!
No, but I appreciate and see what you're doing here with this blog. It's definitely not as simple as just reversing the guy/girl interaction, but it illustrates the point very clearly for those who are willing to take it at face value and not quibble with "oh, but a guy/girl wouldn't act like that!" because that's not the point. Honestly, you could do the same thing with, say, two lesbians or two gay guys in the roles, and it just becomes clear that it's flat-out a shitty way to treat people.
On August 31 2013 01:20 docvoc wrote: That is definitely not why a lot of "hot" chicks are "crazy." In general I find that girls aren't crazy at all, they are just different from guys; not by a whole lot though. The same tricks that work on girls can work on guys, in fact it's popular to use pua-esque tricks on guys to get them to open up, it's what Dale Carnegie wrote about (except with more fanfare and less LRM bullshit). Style, or Neil Straus, wrote in his famous pick up artist book that he commonly used those same tricks on people he didn't want to date to get them to open up to him so he could interview them for the New York Times.
That said, girls tend to be "crazy." They tend to be crazy because they can expect a great guy because they are a hot commodity. They have confidence in their ability to get another guy, so there is no reason for them to do things that they find unseemly. That and the fact that guys have different levels of crazy, and some guys find a totally insane and controlling girl to be fine while others suffocate and want to punch the chick in the face. This story is such bullshit though. Girl's love doesn't work like that, and while maybe a small percentage of girls enjoy having many partners that they toss away, most want a singular, committed partner. Guys like spreading the seed, girls like a guy who'll stick around for a while. This situation isn't impossible, but there is no reason the guy should be taking love in the manner of the majority female style and the female in the majority male style except by pure coincidence.
I agree with the first half of your post, but I'm afraid everything past the bolded sentence is built on a poor understanding of the blog.
The story's purpose is to help us understand what it is like to be a woman getting approached by PUA guys. It accomplishes this by attempting to teach us to feel empathy for these people. You learn to feel empathy for someone by putting yourself in their shoes. A good way to do that successfully is doing a role-reversal. If you can empathize with the guy and what is happening to him, then you can understand what it is like to be a girl getting constantly approached by PUAs, and thus feel empathy for them. Whether or not girls actually feel like this is a debate I don't want to have while typing on my iPhone, and quite frankly most of the people here aren't even vaguely qualified to speak for the majority of the fairer sex.
That's bit of a tangent, though. Basically, you messed up by completely missing the fact that this was a role-switch designed to teach you empathy. How you managed to do that I have no idea.
On August 31 2013 00:08 iTzSnypah wrote: Replace Her with Him. I have no idea why you wrote it backwards, all it does is create replies like FryBender's.
edit - my post was way too mature for a site that young people are on.... And a bit dark. The analogy in the OP does nothing for me personally. Yeah i don't know anything about girls but guys who try to meet women with a piggish appetite are not the result of PUA, just so you know, OP.
Well thing is is that PUA used to be more about manipulating and giving negative feedback to prove one's worth and stuff but if a guy is in an honest place, these PUA instructors actually can help him out. It helps if the guy has the brain's to see the core ideas and not just try to emulate at a superficial level.
I'm surprised so few understood the premise of this blog, but thank you AA for helping clarify it for the rest of the people here.
I wrote this blog based on all the recent PUA talk and seeing my friends get approached when we're out. I have a lot of female friends, probably 70% of my close friends are female. I've seen how a lot of these games affected them first-hand. We're all out having drinks, shooting the shit, dancing, etc. and so many dudes approach then trying to pick them up. I've seen how it affects them immediately, later in the night, the next day, and the weeks that follow.
This is a complete role reversal blog, and although not everything is completely accurate, it is based on a general trend I've seen develop.
And to the guy that told me to enjoy the fat chicks: my girlfriend is a tall, slim bartender/model. I think I'm doing fine, thanks.
Got to say, listening to the stories my (divorced with kids) single male coworker's stories tell seem like after 30 anyone with a stable job is pretty much a PUA just putting their flag up, with lots of desperate woman on the prowl. Most are crazy.
On August 31 2013 08:34 iamho wrote: Maybe if these girls were actually intelligent enough so that game didn't work on them, PUA's would stop trying to hook up with them.
Plus, girls don't need/use game unless they're ugly. Unless you consider toning down the bitch-shield as a form of game.
On August 31 2013 08:34 iamho wrote: Maybe if these girls were actually intelligent enough so that game didn't work on them, PUA's would stop trying to hook up with them.
Plus, girls don't need/use game unless they're ugly. Unless you consider toning down the bitch-shield as a form of game.
For the second part of your post, see my reply to Docvoc in this thread.
For the first part, consider this: PUA's are a group of people whose goal is to learn how to manipulate women into having sex with them. They make it a point to learn everything relevant about female psychology, and create strategies to exploit every weakness they can find. Then, they practice executing what they've learned over and over and over again, until they feel completely comfortable utilizing all the tricks they've learned. In other words, a good PUA is a guy who has done his level best to perfect a specific form of manipulation. What you are saying in the first part of your post is that any woman with a modicum of intelligence can effortlessly resist the manipulation of a person who is... well, who is exactly like the person I just outlined. Kinda ridiculous, don't you think, that the person who is completely untrained and unstudied is expected to be perfectly capable of crushing an opponent who possesses that kind of knowledge and training. If we were talking about soccer, or chess, or poker or really anything that isn't picking up girls, such an assertion would have you thrown into psychiatric hospitalization.
On August 31 2013 08:34 iamho wrote: Maybe if these girls were actually intelligent enough so that game didn't work on them, PUA's would stop trying to hook up with them.
Plus, girls don't need/use game unless they're ugly. Unless you consider toning down the bitch-shield as a form of game.
For the second part of your post, see my reply to Docvoc in this thread.
For the first part, consider this: PUA's are a group of people whose goal is to learn how to manipulate women into having sex with them. They make it a point to learn everything relevant about female psychology, and create strategies to exploit every weakness they can find. Then, they practice executing what they've learned over and over and over again, until they feel completely comfortable utilizing all the tricks they've learned. In other words, a good PUA is a guy who has done his level best to perfect a specific form of manipulation. What you are saying in the first part of your post is that any woman with a modicum of intelligence can effortlessly resist the manipulation of a person who is... well, who is exactly like the person I just outlined. Kinda ridiculous, don't you think, that the person who is completely untrained and unstudied is expected to be perfectly capable of crushing an opponent who possesses that kind of knowledge and training. If we were talking about soccer, or chess, or poker or really anything that isn't picking up girls, such an assertion would have you thrown into psychiatric hospitalization.
It's impossible to communicate without manipulation. Being aware of what you're actually accomplishing beats the hell out of just trying random things because you're completely clueless as to how to achieve your goals.
EPT
