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![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/headbannerdez1hj86.png) ABOUT ME AND THE RANKING+ Show Spoiler +Hi TeamLiquid,
I'm DiaBoLuS, a german low gm protoss player. I play sc2 since the release of the beta and I watch a shitton of professional SC2 – basically all major tournaments, many online cups and ladderstreams as well. Also, im obsessed with rankings!
Therefore, i post a foreigner rankings for about a year now, and i plan to keep posting rankings on a monthly basis in the future. When i talk about „Foreigners“, i exclude non-korean asian players (chinese, taiwanese), simply because I dont see enough of those scenes to rank them, and they dont participate in your regular major tournaments too often. So you may call it a „Western Foreigner Ranking“ if you so desire.
How do i make my ranking? Which criteria do i have? Well, here is a little list of what i look at, from important to less imporant:
- Major Tournament results of the month.
- My impression of the play: how did games look [impressive macrogames / lucky&cheesy], consistency, which opponents (bracket luck?) etc.
- Minor Tournemant / Online Tournament results of the month.
- Tournament results of the past / Achievements.
- Ladder standing (bad or non existent stats have no negative value).
- Your votes and „TheBB's“ player rankings.
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/1stephanokwj45.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/2scarletthqjq7.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/3vortixzrkt2.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/4snutenhjio.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/5nerchio3vksc.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/6naniwarrk3s.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/7lucifroni2j24.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/8grubbyfcjtw.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/9kas93jzl.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/10thorzaindfkve.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/11manahej17.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/12titanv6jp3.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/13sortof9kjmz.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/14tlotij94.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/15babyknightpakp6.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/16huknmj79.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/17slivkoy5kva.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/18fraer3ijhb.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/19sasecakj4.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/20demuslimdbkrj.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/21idrayijp2.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/22happyttjnu.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/23suppy3akpi.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/24major30jo1.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/25lowelyimjhf.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/26xlord8pkpq.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/27bly73kni.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/28sockewekry.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/29monchiojjxo.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/30hasuobsjfj5n.png) ------ 1.  Stephano ------ 2.Scarlett ------ 3.VortiX ------ ------ 4. Snute ------ 5.Nerchio ------ 6.NaNiWa ------ ------ 7. Lucifron ------ 8.Grubby ------ 9.Kas ------ ------ 10. ThorZaiN ------ 11.MaNa ------ 12.TitaN ------ ------ 13. SortOf ------ 14.TLO ------ 15.BabyKnight ------ ------ 16. HuK ------ 17.sLivko ------ 18.Fraer ------ ------ 19. SaSe ------ 20.DeMusliM ------ 21.IdrA ------ ------ 22. Happy ------ 23.Suppy ------ 24.MajOr ------ ------ 25. LoWeLy ------ 26.XlorD ------ 27.Bly ------ ------ 28. Socke ------ 29.monchi ------ 30.HasuObs ------ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/rank30-50n2ji2.png)  Zerg Dimaga Ret JohnnyRecco ViBe mOOnGlaDe KiLLeR goswser LiveZerg  Terran BratOK Naama Illusion ClouD DieStar  Protoss NightEnD Feast elfi White-Ra Adelscott BlinG ToD ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/votesizkeh.png) TOP10+ Show Spoiler +Poll: TOP 10: Most overrated?Scarlett (72) 40% VortiX (28) 15% NaNiWa (21) 12% Nerchio (14) 8% Stephano (11) 6% Kas (9) 5% ThorZaiN (7) 4% Snute (6) 3% can't tell (6) 3% Lucifron (4) 2% Grubby (4) 2% 182 total votes Your vote: TOP 10: Most overrated? (Vote): Stephano
(Vote): Scarlett
(Vote): VortiX
(Vote): Snute
(Vote): Nerchio
(Vote): NaNiWa
(Vote): Lucifron
(Vote): Grubby
(Vote): Kas
(Vote): ThorZaiN
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: TOP 10: Most underrated?NaNiWa (50) 33% Kas (33) 22% Snute (16) 10% Grubby (12) 8% Scarlett (9) 6% ThorZaiN (9) 6% Lucifron (7) 5% Nerchio (5) 3% can't tell (5) 3% VortiX (4) 3% Stephano (3) 2% 153 total votes Your vote: TOP 10: Most underrated? (Vote): Stephano
(Vote): Scarlett
(Vote): VortiX
(Vote): Snute
(Vote): Nerchio
(Vote): NaNiWa
(Vote): Lucifron
(Vote): Grubby
(Vote): Kas
(Vote): ThorZaiN
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Rank 11-20: Most overrated?HuK (85) 63% TLO (17) 13% SortOf (10) 7% BabyKnight (5) 4% can't tell (5) 4% sLivko (4) 3% SaSe (4) 3% DeMusliM (4) 3% MaNa (2) 1% TitaN (0) 0% Fraer (0) 0% 136 total votes Your vote: Rank 11-20: Most overrated? (Vote): MaNa
(Vote): TitaN
(Vote): SortOf
(Vote): TLO
(Vote): BabyKnight
(Vote): HuK
(Vote): sLivko
(Vote): Fraer
(Vote): SaSe
(Vote): DeMusliM
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Rank 11-20: Most underrated?BabyKnight (27) 22% DeMusliM (27) 22% TLO (21) 17% MaNa (12) 10% SortOf (9) 7% Fraer (9) 7% SaSe (7) 6% TitaN (3) 2% HuK (3) 2% can't tell (3) 2% sLivko (0) 0% 121 total votes Your vote: Rank 11-20: Most underrated? (Vote): MaNa
(Vote): TitaN
(Vote): SortOf
(Vote): TLO
(Vote): BabyKnight
(Vote): HuK
(Vote): sLivko
(Vote): Fraer
(Vote): SaSe
(Vote): DeMusliM
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Rank 21-30: Most overrated?IdrA (46) 39% XlorD (36) 31% MajOr (11) 9% Bly (7) 6% HasuObs (5) 4% Happy (4) 3% LoWeLy (3) 3% monchi (3) 3% Socke (1) 1% can't tell (1) 1% Suppy (0) 0% 117 total votes Your vote: Rank 21-30: Most overrated? (Vote): IdrA
(Vote): Happy
(Vote): Suppy
(Vote): MajOr
(Vote): LoWeLy
(Vote): XlorD
(Vote): Bly
(Vote): Socke
(Vote): monchi
(Vote): HasuObs
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Rank 21-30: Most underrated?Suppy (29) 28% IdrA (19) 18% MajOr (14) 13% XlorD (10) 10% monchi (10) 10% LoWeLy (8) 8% Socke (8) 8% Bly (5) 5% Happy (1) 1% can't tell (1) 1% HasuObs (0) 0% 105 total votes Your vote: Rank 21-30: Most underrated? (Vote): IdrA
(Vote): Happy
(Vote): Suppy
(Vote): MajOr
(Vote): LoWeLy
(Vote): XlorD
(Vote): Bly
(Vote): Socke
(Vote): monchi
(Vote): HasuObs
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Who deserves Top30 the most?Dimaga (37) 37% Ret (16) 16% mOOnGlaDe (9) 9% goswser (7) 7% White-Ra (5) 5% Feast (4) 4% Illusion (3) 3% KiLLeR (2) 2% BratOK (2) 2% ClouD (2) 2% NightEnD (2) 2% elfi (2) 2% ViBe (1) 1% LiveZerg (1) 1% Naama (1) 1% DieStar (1) 1% BeastyQt (1) 1% Adelscott (1) 1% BlinG (1) 1% ToD (1) 1% JohnnyRecco (0) 0% 99 total votes Your vote: Who deserves Top30 the most? (Vote): Dimaga
(Vote): Ret
(Vote): JohnnyRecco
(Vote): ViBe
(Vote): mOOnGlaDe
(Vote): KiLLeR
(Vote): goswser
(Vote): LiveZerg
(Vote): BratOK
(Vote): Naama
(Vote): Illusion
(Vote): ClouD
(Vote): DieStar
(Vote): BeastyQt
(Vote): NightEnD
(Vote): Feast
(Vote): elfi
(Vote): Adelscott
(Vote): BlinG
(Vote): ToD
(Vote): White-Ra
Poll: Who isnt even Top50?JohnnyRecco (23) 33% ClouD (14) 20% Adelscott (7) 10% Ret (5) 7% LiveZerg (4) 6% DieStar (4) 6% ToD (3) 4% goswser (3) 4% Illusion (2) 3% BlinG (2) 3% Dimaga (1) 1% mOOnGlaDe (1) 1% White-Ra (1) 1% Naama (0) 0% BratOK (0) 0% BeastyQt (0) 0% NightEnD (0) 0% Feast (0) 0% elfi (0) 0% KiLLeR (0) 0% ViBe (0) 0% 70 total votes Your vote: Who isnt even Top50? (Vote): Dimaga
(Vote): Ret
(Vote): JohnnyRecco
(Vote): ViBe
(Vote): mOOnGlaDe
(Vote): KiLLeR
(Vote): goswser
(Vote): LiveZerg
(Vote): BratOK
(Vote): Naama
(Vote): Illusion
(Vote): ClouD
(Vote): DieStar
(Vote): BeastyQt
(Vote): NightEnD
(Vote): Feast
(Vote): elfi
(Vote): Adelscott
(Vote): BlinG
(Vote): ToD
(Vote): White-Ra
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/oldrankings40ken.png) March 2012April 2012May 2012June 2012July 2012August 2012September 2012October 2012November 2012December 2012 (1)![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/otherv2k62.png) If u want explanation of why i ranked specific players as i did, simply write a comment in this thread. Giving an explanation for each and every player would be way too much work for me^^ Please tell ur friends, state ur opinion in this thread, rate the blog and upvote on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/15js9n/top30_foreigner_rankings_december_2012_2/Also, take a look at the korean ranking from 00Visor: 00Visor's Korean SC2 Ranking (December)!Thanks, I hope u had a nice read!
  
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Despite all the haters Idra does deserve to alteast be in the top 50. Third at WCS NA alone out preforms most of the people in rank 30-50.
Edit: Nvm he is 21 i'm just stupid
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much more accurate than that other list lol
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Top 10:
Most overrated: Snute, seriously he won HSC6 what else? He is good don't get me wrong but he still needs to prove himself.
Most underrated: Kas,well he obviously is.
Top 20:
Most overrated: HuK, when was the last time he won something?
Most underrated: TLO, he showed once again at HSC that he is really a force to watch out for.
Top 30:
Most overrated: MajOr, I believed in him for the longest time.
Most underrated: Socke, he has been consistantly doing well in tournaments for so long now but still doens't get recognization for it.
31-50:
Who deserves Top30 the most? Dimaga, He does, so good.
Who isnt even Top50? JohnnyRecco, haven't even heard of him for a while now when he was supposed to be the next breakout player.
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On December 28 2012 10:42 Zoia wrote:
Despite all the haters Idra does deserve to alteast be in the top 50. Third at WCS NA alone out preforms most of the people in rank 30-50.
IdrA is ranked 21.
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On December 28 2012 10:49 Cokefreak wrote:
Top 10:
Most overrated: Snute, seriously he won HSC6 what else? He is good don't get me wrong but he still needs to prove himself.
Most underrated: Kas,well he obviously is.
Top 20:
Most overrated: HuK, when was the last time he won something?
Most underrated: TLO, he showed once again at HSC that he is really a force to watch out for.
Top 30:
Most overrated: MajOr, I believed in him for the longest time.
Most underrated: Socke, he has been consistantly doing well in tournaments for so long now but still doens't get recognization for it.
31-50:
Who deserves Top30 the most? Dimaga, He does, so good.
Who isnt even Top50? JohnnyRecco, haven't even heard of him for a while now when he was supposed to be the next breakout player.
have faith in major!
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On December 28 2012 11:06 NMxhendralisk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:49 Cokefreak wrote:
Top 10:
Most overrated: Snute, seriously he won HSC6 what else? He is good don't get me wrong but he still needs to prove himself.
Most underrated: Kas,well he obviously is.
Top 20:
Most overrated: HuK, when was the last time he won something?
Most underrated: TLO, he showed once again at HSC that he is really a force to watch out for.
Top 30:
Most overrated: MajOr, I believed in him for the longest time.
Most underrated: Socke, he has been consistantly doing well in tournaments for so long now but still doens't get recognization for it.
31-50:
Who deserves Top30 the most? Dimaga, He does, so good.
Who isnt even Top50? JohnnyRecco, haven't even heard of him for a while now when he was supposed to be the next breakout player. have faith in major!
Sorry, no more  Like I said I believed in him for the longest time.
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On December 28 2012 10:57 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:42 Zoia wrote:
Despite all the haters Idra does deserve to alteast be in the top 50. Third at WCS NA alone out preforms most of the people in rank 30-50. IdrA is ranked 21.
I don't know why i didn't see him i looked at the list three times. Well i'm just stupid then
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Hey! This looks pretty good to me!
On December 28 2012 10:49 Cokefreak wrote:
Top 10:
Most overrated: Snute, seriously he won HSC6 what else? He is good don't get me wrong but he still needs to prove himself.
Most underrated: Kas,well he obviously is.
Top 20:
Most overrated: HuK, when was the last time he won something?
Most underrated: TLO, he showed once again at HSC that he is really a force to watch out for.
Top 30:
Most overrated: MajOr, I believed in him for the longest time.
Most underrated: Socke, he has been consistantly doing well in tournaments for so long now but still doens't get recognization for it.
31-50:
Who deserves Top30 the most? Dimaga, He does, so good.
Who isnt even Top50? JohnnyRecco, haven't even heard of him for a while now when he was supposed to be the next breakout player.
Haha, yes, what Snute done, aside from take HSC6, beat Life at IPL, top 8 at Dreamhack (out to HerO), second at Campus Party (out to SuperNoVa), third at the Battle at Ministry of Win (out to Sage), second in the Acer Challenge (out to Sage), and second in the Thor Open? Must be a noob, because I'm too lazy to look at his Liquipedia page.
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no surprise what race the top5 are.
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I'd put VortiX in 2nd place over Scarlett. She didn't look too convincing in RSL against GuMiho and fraer with the US server advantage, while VortiX just comfortably 3-0ed GuMiho, won THOR Open over Snute and others without dropping a map.
And I'd really put Pomi in the Protoss 30-50 lineup over White-Ra or ToD after he beat MMA, Zenio and Nerchio in EG Master's Cup finals this month.
Not that that'd make him incredibly impressive, but it's still way better results than for example those two have produced this month and in the months prior.
HuK should be a bit further down again, sLivko, eh, I don't know why he's still 17th, but I might just be butthurt fraer is lower than slivko again now (fucking WCG -.-).
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Scarlett 2nd? Is this a joke? What has he even performed well in recently?
Scarlett is so overrated.
User was banned for this post.
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Stephano overrated? Are there people who would say he is not best foreigner?
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10 Terrans in the top 50. It hurts man it hurts.
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so people think Naniwa, TLO and Idra are both, heavily underrated and heavily overrated...  huh...
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On December 28 2012 13:31 sashamunguia wrote:so people think Naniwa, TLO and Idra are both, heavily underrated and heavily overrated... huh...
They've always been controversial players, no surprises there. What surprises me more is people voting for VortiX as overrated. If anything, he might be underrated.
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On December 28 2012 13:34 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:31 sashamunguia wrote:so people think Naniwa, TLO and Idra are both, heavily underrated and heavily overrated... huh... They've always been controversial players, no surprises there. What surprises me more is people voting for VortiX as overrated. If anything, he might be underrated.
He's a Zerg. There's kind of been an over-exposure of them lately.
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No problems with the top 5, but the rest of the list is pretty fucked up.
Most egregious are:
Lucifron #7
Thorzain #10
Demuslim # 20
all way too high.
I think a top 15 list would be better.
When you get past the top 15 the players just get lackluster and aren't very good (compared to Koreans) and aren't very relevant to the scene.
Huk? Slivko? way too high as well.
Also, no Goswser on the list is very silly.
Lastly, I'll reiterate how baffled I am by Lucifron at #7.
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i say its more or less accurate.
gogo SortOf ^^
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The list looks pretty good to me. I think Kas and Fraer should both be a few spots higher, but overall it jibes pretty well with my opinion. Top 5 looks fine.
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I think this isn't bad but you are severely underestimating huk.
lol @ all the people saying huk should be further down
he's still one of the only foreigners actually beating koreans
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Another interesting list. I think most of what's here is more or less okay. I think people may disagree because they think the best player is the one who is making the biggest splash at the moment. (OMG top 3!!!11!) and they completely neglect the players that are consistently getting deep into tournaments, beating Koreans but not having any "loud" results.
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On December 28 2012 14:25 travis wrote:
I think this isn't bad but you are severely underestimating huk.
lol @ all the people saying huk should be further down
he's still one of the only foreigners actually beating koreans
Especially in PL.
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On December 28 2012 14:04 decado90 wrote:
No problems with the top 5, but the rest of the list is pretty fucked up.
Most egregious are:
Lucifron #7
Thorzain #10
Demuslim # 20
all way too high.
I think a top 15 list would be better.
When you get past the top 15 the players just get lackluster and aren't very good (compared to Koreans) and aren't very relevant to the scene.
Huk? Slivko? way too high as well.
Also, no Goswser on the list is very silly.
Lastly, I'll reiterate how baffled I am by Lucifron at #7.
You say no problem with the top 5, meaning you're okay with Vortix as #3, but you seem to have a huge problem with Lucifron. Why?
Lucifron and Vortix have played each other a lot over the year and they've been nearly evenly matched. Vortix has the edge, and that's why he's #3 and Lucifron is #7. To put Lucifron any lower than top 10 would be wrong.
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Ummmm where is sen?? He would be top 10, probably top 5. Top 4 finish at the blizzard world championships.
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I counted 8 Patchzergs, Sen could easily replace any 7 of them, the exception being Vortix
Mark my words, by the next list, Goswser will crack top 25.
Nani should be higher, possibly as high as 2.
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On December 28 2012 14:42 Gatesleeper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 14:04 decado90 wrote:
No problems with the top 5, but the rest of the list is pretty fucked up.
Most egregious are:
Lucifron #7
Thorzain #10
Demuslim # 20
all way too high.
I think a top 15 list would be better.
When you get past the top 15 the players just get lackluster and aren't very good (compared to Koreans) and aren't very relevant to the scene.
Huk? Slivko? way too high as well.
Also, no Goswser on the list is very silly.
Lastly, I'll reiterate how baffled I am by Lucifron at #7. You say no problem with the top 5, meaning you're okay with Vortix as #3, but you seem to have a huge problem with Lucifron. Why? Lucifron and Vortix have played each other a lot over the year and they've been nearly evenly matched. Vortix has the edge, and that's why he's #3 and Lucifron is #7. To put Lucifron any lower than top 10 would be wrong.
Vortix has smashed his brother and Koreans lately. Lucifron has done nothing
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I feel like Demuslim should be a lot higher. Top 8 of NASL Season 4 is no joke.
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CombatEX deserves a spot in there.
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Neat list, I love things like this. Thanks for posting!
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I agree that Sen might be much better than a lot of the players on the list, but he simply doesn't get the same exposure.
I can only remember seeing him at the Asia and world championships. Really as since he is a very enjoyable Zerg to watch.
The list seems reasonable, but it always hard to make such a list.
And people will always say: "X beat Y in that tournament, X should rank higher!", or "X only played well in one tournament, so overrated!"
IMO I would rank grubby above Naniwa ATM or at least in the near future. Sure I am a Grubby fan but still. That guy just gets better and better!
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Kas underrated? No lan results. Also scarlett and vortix are not overrated.
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I think IdrA is probably better than a lot the patch zergs given his performance at WCS but its a fair placement given his shitty 2012 year. Lucifron and Thorzain are way to highly rated.
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Gonna get hate,
but grubby is ranked to high, he is, he's not that great anymore, he's definitely not 8
He did good at HSC6 but who'd he beat? MC? he's slumping hard, it seems like he can't beat anyone recently (I still believe in the boss toss), and Maybe bling?
Then (no offense to TLO) in the second game of their set grubby lost a game he basically had won.
Grubby is way over ranked he's been doing worse for a while, and he's sub 50% in all of his matchups on TLPD, and also of his last 40 games (this doesnt have HSC6 though) he's 12 for 40, thats a 30% win rate friends, (with his wins from hsc6 he's still 42%, they're just not on the TLPD player profile yet, with two of those wins coming over heromarine [who the fuck is that])
Grubby needs to be way lower, looking at gameplay and stats he's way overranked
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Suppy needs to be a bit higher, at least around 16 if you based it around tournament result in the past month as the most influential factor in your rankings. Him and Moonglade were top 5 foreigners in that event and Moonglade is not even on your list.
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Good list!I agree,for the most part!Good job!
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Suppy should be a bit higher imo.
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Xlord and Socke should much higher on list imo, Demuslim/Idra/ are too high, none of them had any decent results for a while now.
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Solid list, I like it better than the first one.
The only one I am not happy with at all is TLO. Way too high imo, even if I am a fan. I would put im right around XlorD's level maybe below that. Or raise the others from the german scene because TLO is not above Monchi/Hasu/Socke by that much if at all.
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Austria24417 Posts
Seems pretty reasonable, I agree with most of it. TLO could be way higher but I do think that'll happen soon.
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six of them are terran , good race yes yes :D :D
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Pretty sure Happy retired.
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Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 18:33 goswser wrote:
Pretty sure Happy retired.
I thought he switched to zerg?
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Decent list. I feel like top 10 is very accurate, with the exception of Scarlett being as high as 2nd. I would also rate Major, Socke and monchi higher while I think that Slivko and HuK are too high up on the list.
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On December 28 2012 13:14 TheFish7 wrote:
Stephano overrated? Are there people who would say he is not best foreigner?
Well, it seems like people start to work him out, also he didn't dominate anything recently. For more and more people he start to look like that "revolutionary guy" who was unstoppable with his own new style/strategy, often by just abusing it, but then fell off from the throne when others learned to play it/against it.
I think he just needs to reprove himself. Or to prove himself in the GSL.
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On December 28 2012 18:41 Tailss wrote:
Decent list. I feel like top 10 is very accurate, with the exception of Scarlett being as high as 2nd. I would also rate Major, Socke and monchi higher while I think that Slivko and HuK are too high up on the list.
Can someone elighten me what has Major accomplished in 2012 that is the reason so many people lick his boots? Not only he is on this list for some mysterious reason, but he is on people's tounges lately most of the time joined by words "fantastic, underrated", but last time i saw him, he got steamrolled by Idra at WCS NA and that tells something. And please, do not mention WCS Mexico because it's a bad argument, just by looking at the competitors there.
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Sen is not there because (quoted from the OP):
"i exclude non-korean asian players (chinese, taiwanese), simply because I dont see enough of those scenes to rank them, and they dont participate in your regular major tournaments too often. So you may call it a „Western Foreigner Ranking“ if you so desire."
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Top 5 is really telling..
Blizzard come on!
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On December 28 2012 18:33 goswser wrote:
Pretty sure Happy retired.
he still played some pretty good games in teamleagues for empire.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, may it be positive or negative. didnt expect this at all :D
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Lets hope Blizzard can fix this imbalance. I have no problem with the game being imba at masters (there is no way to deal with that) but on the long run this domination of a race on the sub-top or top-foreign level is unacceptable and does huge damage to the scene. Zerg is just too much easier to play.
User was temp banned for this post.
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sen is not even in this list 4th at wcs is ofcourse not a big achievement getting 4th of the world and getting 3 times third in Nasl also not a big achievement joke list who ever made this is a complete idiot
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fraer, sase, babyknight, mana and maybe Demuslim are all too low
TLO, SortOf too high
lowely should be replaced with elfi I think
oh and naniwa and scarlett should be swapped imo
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can you please explain why Kas is always so high up? he literally has done nothing. ever. but ladder. and lose at lan...
i know he is a great player, but 0 lan results, he shouldnt even be in the top 20-30
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Mana has won more then any other foreigner (apart from stephano probably) in the second half of the bracket and he is 11th? I dont understand this??
Also Kas too high?, undoubtly one of the most skilled, but without accomplishments at all.
Also, where is Sen?
This rating is not very good if you ask me, sorry
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Scarlett looks pretty hot, Naniwa is hotter. Notice zerg dominance, it's not a coincidence. I'd want to see Liquid recruit Naniwa despite the obvious "image issue".
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I agree with the sentiment that Kas is too high. He surely has an impressive amount of ladder games but it kinda seems as if he is unable to win important matches. I also think that Monchi should be higher than Hasuobs and Socke. I found the German toss players quite disappointing in the recent months.
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On December 28 2012 21:22 chimpyman wrote:
can you please explain why Kas is always so high up? he literally has done nothing. ever. but ladder. and lose at lan...
i know he is a great player, but 0 lan results, he shouldnt even be in the top 20-30
Kas: he played pretty well at HSC, wouldnt you agree? If it would be about online performance only, he would be top 5 for sure.
You saying he shouldnt be in the top 30 at all is disqualifying you completly btw^^
NaNiWa: Im not rating skill, the fact that he isnt zerg doesnt give him a bonus. Think about how high u would rate the chances of the top 10 players in a major tournament right now, or when they faced off against each other. Do you really think NaNiWa would have more than 50% against the top5 zergs right now? I don't. Also, he didnt have the biggest LAN wins in the last few months either. I'd like to rate him higher, but zerg is pretty gawd right now. I was thinking about ranks 3 to 6 for very long though, its almost even in my eyes.
SortOf: Some ppl havent seen NASL at all, i assume?
HuK: Pretty OK nasl performance overall, quite OK at MLG as well. Never forget he was a major tournament winner for a long time. And throwing him into a Code A group - dont u think he has quite "OK" (wow im saying this a lot) chances compared to the other foreigners as well? same goes for IdrA btw.
VortiX: You may think he is overrated. But he is in the final of the RSL again, winning 3-0 vs gumiho in the semis (cross-server / online, yes), as well as winning the Thor Open very convincingly (5-0 vs Snute in maps, who showed how GOD he is in ZvZ at HomestoryCup). That was offline btw.
Scarlett: Her overall performance at IPL5 was insane. Her games look pretty awesome and i dont see any other foreigner who could do better against Code S koreans than her or Stephano.
Also, i'd like to say some words in general:
Keep in mind that its insanely hard to acutally make a ranking. There cant be 15 top10 players or 40 Top30 players, you have to choose wisely. Try it yourself and see how u struggle to rank everything correctly.
When ranking, keep in mind how u would imagine to do someone vs the ppl surrounding him in touranments. Also, compare their chances vs koreans to the chances of other players. Dont look at races, look at how successful you imagine them to be.
Those things are just as actual important as major tournament results of the last month and very hard to judge. I'm happy that the feedback is about 50/50 positive/negative, cuz that shows me i did quite a good job! 
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I agree with most of the list, but I would honestly rank Vortix above Scarlett. He really impressed me at Thor Open and the Ritmix RSL
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I would agree on most off the list, but there are a few things, I would have slightly different on:
I) MajOr +5. Why? This is just an honest qeustion, I have seen nothing of him at all in the last weeks and I would like to know, where this comes from.
II) Scarlett. With her IPL run already influencing the last ranking, I can´t really see, why she is again raised. At RSL she lost against Gumiho plying on NA Server (assumption based on RSL 1+2, pls don´t hit me if it is wrong), while both Vortix and Lowely (Who is possibly slightly underrated, but as you said before, making such a ranking is pretty hard) defeated him with a worse connection. Vortix or Snute have done more than her IMHO.
III)TLO. He had a decent Dreamhack and a good HSC and definitly deserves a raise, but +16 is a bit to much, given how careful you went with XlorD (which is totally fine, if he can follow up his HSC, he will get higher soon anyway). I would probably placed him at the 18-22-region.
Otherwise I found everything very reasonable, thanks again for the ranking.
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On December 29 2012 06:39 Xoronius wrote:
I would agree on most off the list, but there are a few things, I would have slightly different on:
I) MajOr +5. Why? This is just an honest qeustion, I have seen nothing of him at all in the last weeks and I would like to know, where this comes from.
II) Scarlett. With her IPL run already influencing the last ranking, I can´t really see, why she is again raised. At RSL she lost against Gumiho plying on NA Server (assumption based on RSL 1+2, pls don´t hit me if it is wrong), while both Vortix and Lowely (Who is possibly slightly underrated, but as you said before, making such a ranking is pretty hard) defeated him with a worse connection. Vortix or Snute have done more than her IMHO.
III)TLO. He had a decent Dreamhack and a good HSC and definitly deserves a raise, but +16 is a bit to much, given how careful you went with XlorD (which is totally fine, if he can follow up his HSC, he will get higher soon anyway). I would probably placed him at the 18-22-region.
Otherwise I found everything very reasonable, thanks again for the ranking.
1) he won the HSC NA qualifier quite convincingly against strong zerg opponents
2) you are kind of rate, it was more the votes of last month / ppl wanted to see scarlett get the 2nd spot a lot. shouldve probably been #3 or #4, the thing is that i dont think i could call vortix or snute the 2nd best foreigner right now.
3) I went careful with XlorD cuz its his first apperience in this ranking. Also, some of his games looked strangely "shaky" despite his great results, and you have to concider that ppl didnt know his style at all. TLO though was called one of the best zergs for a few weeks now (e.g. by lucifron "he will top this group without a doubt" at the gd event) and he finally prooved it - and he played good players of all races. I think he deserves to get up a lot. again, he probably shouldve been 3-4 ranks lower, but thats always debateable obviously.
thanks for the feedback again <3
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On December 28 2012 15:20 sambo400 wrote:
I counted 8 Patchzergs, Sen could easily replace any 7 of them, the exception being Vortix
Mark my words, by the next list, Goswser will crack top 25.
Nani should be higher, possibly as high as 2.
I'm pretty sure in the first edition, the OP said that this is more of a "Western foreigner" feature. He is excluding Chinese/Taiwanese/etc players because he doesn't really know the scene too well. Sen is definitely up there, he's just not in this list for that reason.
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On December 29 2012 10:56 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 06:39 Xoronius wrote:
I would agree on most off the list, but there are a few things, I would have slightly different on:
I) MajOr +5. Why? This is just an honest qeustion, I have seen nothing of him at all in the last weeks and I would like to know, where this comes from.
II) Scarlett. With her IPL run already influencing the last ranking, I can´t really see, why she is again raised. At RSL she lost against Gumiho plying on NA Server (assumption based on RSL 1+2, pls don´t hit me if it is wrong), while both Vortix and Lowely (Who is possibly slightly underrated, but as you said before, making such a ranking is pretty hard) defeated him with a worse connection. Vortix or Snute have done more than her IMHO.
III)TLO. He had a decent Dreamhack and a good HSC and definitly deserves a raise, but +16 is a bit to much, given how careful you went with XlorD (which is totally fine, if he can follow up his HSC, he will get higher soon anyway). I would probably placed him at the 18-22-region.
Otherwise I found everything very reasonable, thanks again for the ranking. 1) he won the HSC NA qualifier quite convincingly against strong zerg opponents 2) you are kind of rate, it was more the votes of last month / ppl wanted to see scarlett get the 2nd spot a lot. shouldve probably been #3 or #4, the thing is that i dont think i could call vortix or snute the 2nd best foreigner right now. 3) I went careful with XlorD cuz its his first apperience in this ranking. Also, some of his games looked strangely "shaky" despite his great results, and you have to concider that ppl didnt know his style at all. TLO though was called one of the best zergs for a few weeks now (e.g. by lucifron "he will top this group without a doubt" at the gd event) and he finally prooved it - and he played good players of all races. I think he deserves to get up a lot. again, he probably shouldve been 3-4 ranks lower, but thats always debateable obviously. thanks for the feedback again <3
1) Checked HSC qualifier again, with the korean invasion there, MajOr´s improvement is probably reasonable.
2) I see, that it is hard to call Vortix/Snute Nr.2 foreigner, but I honestly can´t call Scarlett Nr.2 foreigner as well and Vortix results (Thor Open, RSL, IEM) were stronger. But with the masses (finally) on my side, we´ll see how it´ll be in january. The best solution would probably be Nerchio stomping everyone in katowice, so we have a clear couple at the top again.
3)I can understand the reasoning, but I still have a hard time calling him the favorite against BabyKnight/Fraer.
Btw.: I read here, that Happy retired, where is this information from?
EDIT: I don´t think his has been answered yet:
On December 28 2012 17:02 StatikKhaos wrote:Gonna get hate, but grubby is ranked to high, he is, he's not that great anymore, he's definitely not 8 He did good at HSC6 but who'd he beat? MC? he's slumping hard, it seems like he can't beat anyone recently (I still believe in the boss toss), and Maybe bling? Then (no offense to TLO) in the second game of their set grubby lost a game he basically had won. Grubby is way over ranked he's been doing worse for a while, and he's sub 50% in all of his matchups on TLPD, and also of his last 40 games (this doesnt have HSC6 though) he's 12 for 40, thats a 30% win rate friends, (with his wins from hsc6 he's still 42%, they're just not on the TLPD player profile yet, with two of those wins coming over heromarine [who the fuck is that]) Grubby needs to be way lower, looking at gameplay and stats he's way overranked
Please keep in mind, that TLPD does not include IEM Singapure yet. Grubby had a very strong tournament there, defeating Lucifronn, Stardust, MC and sLivko and just narrowly losing to Sting.
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I will never understand why foreigners are so bent up on *cheesy/all-in* esq play (i.e if you play *cheesy* and win, your ranking should still be equally compared vs people who don't *cheese*). It's a strategy game where you do ANY strategy to win. In the end it doesn't matter how beautiful your play was, it only matters if you won or lost. You will see in translated interviews that Koreans use it often and call it "strategical play" and I really believe it's a negative way to look at game play in a detrimental light. If you will reference old BW games such as F91 vs Idra, F91 basically just did w.e the hell he wanted and won the series easily because his style is unusual and Idra really didn't understand the game as well as him. After the series he cried about cheesy noob style, but why would you play the same as everyone so they can understand your play in a 'strategy game' makes no sense to me.
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On December 30 2012 01:47 dRaW wrote:
I will never understand why foreigners are so bent up on *cheesy/all-in* esq play (i.e if you play *cheesy* and win, your ranking should still be equally compared vs people who don't *cheese*). It's a strategy game where you do ANY strategy to win. In the end it doesn't matter how beautiful your play was, it only matters if you won or lost. You will see in translated interviews that Koreans use it often and call it "strategical play" and I really believe it's a negative way to look at game play in a detrimental light. If you will reference old BW games such as F91 vs Idra, F91 basically just did w.e the hell he wanted and won the series easily because his style is unusual and Idra really didn't understand the game as well as him. After the series he cried about cheesy noob style, but why would you play the same as everyone so they can understand your play in a 'strategy game' makes no sense to me.
If a player relies on those cheeses, you can be certain that he will be figured out very soon.
Its normal and good that players cheese, im only relating to players who rely on cheesing and coinflipping -all the time-
An example would be HuK:
He had rly great tournaments where he won DH, HSC and MLG very convincingly, using various strategies - he had tons of allins as well, but he never relied on them.
But i feel like aobut half a year later, he still had good success if u look at his tournament finishes, while most of it was coinflip buildorders like 4 gate or DT rush in PvPs.
The HuK 6 months earlier wouldve been valued way higher than him 6 month later - although they had comparable success.
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My only concern is Socke being too low in the ranking. He looked really strong at IEM Katowice and had good results ther aswell. He is a bit too calm to get recognition but it is too bad. I'd put him around 20.
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On February 01 2013 05:52 Thurken wrote:
My only concern is Socke being too low in the ranking. He looked really strong at IEM Katowice and had good results ther aswell. He is a bit too calm to get recognition but it is too bad. I'd put him around 20.
new ranking coming out tomorrow
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EPT
