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United States15536 Posts
Hey again, TL. It's a new week, and the N3rd Dimension has a new post. This one is about something I'm sure many of you have dealt with: Nerd Shame. Check it out!
NERD SHAME
Dating is tough. There’s always some trepidation when asking someone out or going on a first date. How is this going to go? Is this person going to like me? Am I going to make a total ass of myself? Okay, perhaps some of these concerns are more personal than others, but most people go into dates with at least a little self-doubt. If you don’t, either good for you or WOW are you an asshole. For the incredibly nerdy, there’s an additional dimension of things that might blow up in your face. They come from the following question: “What do you do in your free time?” No matter how well things are going up to that point, right then is when things can go horribly, horribly wrong. Now you have a choice. You can lie. That sucks. Or, you can say that you typically spend the weekend reading Young Avengers, watching The Legend of Korra, and leading a circle of Solar Exalts.
Many people choose to lie. This is called nerd shame.
While the dating world seems to be where nerd shame is most prevalent, it’s certainly not exclusive to it. I have a friend who doesn’t want to tell his girlfriend that he plays Pokemon D&D (with me). She knows he plays a tabletop RPG, but apparently the fact that Pokemon are also involved is too overwhelmingly nerdy to discuss. Members of the campaign are expected to keep silent about the game when she’s around. Have you ever known someone that you only learn shares a nerdy hobby with you when you incidentally mention it to them one-on-one? Have you ever had that person deny that hobby when you’re around other people? Nerds tend to have a reputation for being shy or withdrawn. Is it any wonder why when they never feel able to talk about their passions?
Many nerds are embarrassed about liking what they like.
WWWWWHHHHHHHYYYYYYY?!
Alright, so it’s obvious: nerds tend to hide their own interests because how abnormal they appear to non-nerds. Unfortunately, this makes sense. Before geek chic became a thing, being a nerd was a great way to get shoved into a locker and miss fourth period history. (Also, there are only “cool nerds” in places where intelligence is valued. Like college. As in, after most bullying has already happened) Part of this seeming abnormality is simply the non-nerds’ fear of the unknown; any activity involving phrases like “Willpower saving throw” or “Tap one forest and another land for trample and first strike” or “Warp Factor 9″ can baffle the uninitiated through obscurity alone. This means that no one suffers nerd shame because of Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings (the movies). Everyone gets those things. They’re mainstream. On the other hand, dressing like Sephiroth or (back to LotR) speaking Elvish for fun is probably going to get you stared at. Then laughed at. It’s just a few small steps from the initial unfamiliarity to getting your lunch money stolen from you and becoming the Dweeb King.
Another facet of this problem is perpetual nerd stereotype: an obsessive, drooling, basement-dwelling reject. Who cares if some nerds look like this and act like this when everyone knows real nerds look like this and act like this, right? It gets even worse when the person is doing the stereotyping because they’ve only had experience with the aforementioned problem children. You’d be shocked by how many girls I’ve spoken with who have the experience required to utter a sentence like this: “I couldn’t date him anymore because he was way more into video games than he was into me.” The number of issues in this statement are legion, but the first thing to come to my mind is always “Fuck, way to screw things up for the rest of us.” It means there’s another story out there about a nerd who isn’t capable of interacting with others. And to most people, it means that weird nerdy thing that they do is to blame.
…
Let me get this out of my system.
FUCK THIS SHAME CULTURE BULLSHIT. FUCK. IT.
Hey, everyone? Let’s own who we are. No, seriously. That may sound like a motivational poster in your middle school counselor’s office, but honestly, you know what’s a better feeling than shame? PRIDE. If someone says to you “I hope you do things other than video games; I hope you aren’t that boring,” tell them they should be more open to other ideas, then walk away. Guess what? YOU WON. You acted like a adult, and you defended something you care about. And you defended yourself. If someone says to you “Wait… you watch video games like sports? That’s weird,” tell them no, no it’s not, and you might find it interesting if you try it. Then drop it. There: at best you just made a new eSports fan, and at worst, you’ve identified another close-minded person who you can ignore. If you’re on a date, and your date wants to call it quits after finding out you play Magic cards, GOOD RIDDANCE. Anyone who would be worth loving wouldn’t be so immediately condemning.
Look, I’m not saying drag people into your passions or get pissy at people who shit on nerd hobbies. Anyone would get pissed off at a guy who’s into a familiar pastime like football if every weekend he came over in his football jersey, talked only about football, wanted to play football, then shoved a football up your nose. Similarly, don’t go around talking everyone’s ear off about how incredible CLG was in the latest League of Legends tournament. Don’t invite your date to make a half-elf bard and join your campaign; if that person wanted to do it, they probably already would be. Some people are never going to want to play a game of Settler’s of Catan with you. Star Trek is not for everyone. You can’t just convince someone to read Asimov or Gibson or Herbert. Your nerdiness should not define every aspect of your personality. But it is a part of your personality.
So don’t hide it.
Don’t shy away from it.
Don’t be ashamed of it.
Bring it to school or to work or to the party or on the date. I certainly have, and guess what?
It’ll be fine.
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Thanks to Mig and TL for clearing up my posting faux pas and letting me fix it. Hope you all enjoy the unabridged content. My bad for earlier. =)
Read more at the N3rd Dimension.
 
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This is pretty much true. Instead of being ashamed of your hobby, if you'll take pride in it people won't look down on you - at least, not as much as they would look down on you for it if you're ashamed of it. And if they do look down on you for it, then...well, fuck them. Agreed 100%.
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Nerds shame is not tolerable. I believe to find the problem we must look to the persona. A persona is like a mask. It is the role that a person is given because of his traits. He does not really choose it, however. THe persona is a way for people to know how to act and how to understand eachother.
I belive nerdshame is a result of people who are unable to reconcile their inner interests with the persona they have chosen/had chosen for them by society. They don't have the grace to fit it in to their personality. I do not struggle with this myself. It has never been a problem for me to say "yes, pokemon!!!"
I see no reason to feel shame for a hobbie. Unless it harms others or something like that.. you know? I hope someone can tell me where their nerd shame comes from.
I think nerd shame is comparable to bi-sexual couple that ends up in a hetrosexual marriage but then conceals their sexuality because they can. They fail others by not disproving misconceptions and stigmas.
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It's pretty darn impossible to overcome in High school especially if you want to be popular or get laid, which let's face it, most teenagers want to do. However when I see people in their mid 20s and over still denying their nerdy habits and pushing themselves away from these activities I find it pretty darn sad.
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On October 02 2012 07:34 PiGStarcraft wrote:
It's pretty darn impossible to overcome in High school especially if you want to be popular or get laid, which let's face it, most teenagers want to do.
Why can't you find someone if you like video games? If you are open minded enough, you can see it does not differ much from movies. I agree that open-mindedness, while seemingly on the rise is not universal.
What I do think is universal, however, is the attractiveness of one who is comfortable with his/her reality without having to lie to deal with it.
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On October 02 2012 07:34 PiGStarcraft wrote:
It's pretty darn impossible to overcome in High school especially if you want to be popular or get laid, which let's face it, most teenagers want to do. However when I see people in their mid 20s and over still denying their nerdy habits and pushing themselves away from these activities I find it pretty darn sad.
ya cause no girl has ever played a videogame before
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United States15536 Posts
On October 02 2012 07:20 hooahah wrote:
This is pretty much true. Instead of being ashamed of your hobby, if you'll take pride in it people won't look down on you - at least, not as much as they would look down on you for it if you're ashamed of it. And if they do look down on you for it, then...well, fuck them. Agreed 100%.
A friend of mine summed it up really well for me once. She said, "There are only two kinds of opinions people can have about you. They either like you or they don't. And neither of them matter."
And while the opinions of those I care about matter to me, this is still true. In the end, you gotta do you. And, to me, that means pride in your hobbies and ignoring those who look down on them for no reason.
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The problem, frankly, is that far too many nerds feel the need to over-emphasize their nerdy hobbies far too early on, and when that starts to drive people away, they automatically assume that nerdy things are a social stigma. It's not lacking the passion to express your interests, it's about lacking the moderation to know how much to talk about yourself.
Let's take a quote from the article:
You can lie. That sucks. Or, you can say that you typically spend the weekend reading Young Avengers, watching The Legend of Korra, and leading a circle of Solar Exalts.
See this? This highlights the issue completely, because both are completely the wrong choice. Lying is wrong, of course. But answering a simple question like "What do you do on the weekends?" with a detailed list of your current interests is just as bad. If you start off answering a basic small-talk question with something like his, off course it's going to be off-putting...but not because it's nerdy, but because it's just weird.
Let's put this into another context, since everyone wants to blame it on "nerdiness". You're a big Soccer buff. You love Soccer, play Soccer, watch Soccer, have all your buddies over on big game nights to watch. This is completely normal behaviour - you're just passionate about what you love.
A girl asks you what hobbies you have. Do you answer A) You like Soccer, or B) You collect posters of your favourite team, you play Soccer 3 times a week, you watch your team every weekend with beer and munchies, you do fantasy leagues, etc.
The correct approach is to be vague and general at the beginning, because that's the level of interest. They're not asking about your hobbies because they want to know everything about you, they just want to make small-talk so they can get to know you slowly. If they're actually interested in a specific topic, then by all means, start expanding and talking in more detail. But make sure to answer in terms of their interest, not yours, or else this becomes a one-sided conversation with you ranting about something they don't care about.
Also worth quoting here:
Members of the campaign are expected to keep silent about the game when she’s around.
Being in denial is one thing, but honestly, is there a reason to talk about it in the first place? If she's around, its because he wants to hang out with her, which means conversations should include her. Talking about a D&D game, regardless of the content, completely cuts her out unless she's genuinely interested.
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Being in denial is one thing, but honestly, is there a reason to talk about it in the first place? If she's around, its because he wants to hang out with her, which means conversations should include her. Talking about a D&D game, regardless of the content, completely cuts her out unless she's genuinely interested.
I agree that probably the biggest problem for most women is how it affords her less attention.. and some people really do ignore people for televisin or video games. like kind of how i ignore my mom to type on teamliquid right now.
There are some people who actually are ashamed of their gaming. I have had a friend who was obviously pretty into dota, knew of boxer and the sc community, was out going, handsome.. and he tells me "closet gamer". that i don't understand. It's also not a big issue to me either... "pride in your hobbies and ignoring those who look down on it." thats good enough for me.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 02 2012 08:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:Let's take a quote from the article: Show nested quote +You can lie. That sucks. Or, you can say that you typically spend the weekend reading Young Avengers, watching The Legend of Korra, and leading a circle of Solar Exalts. See this? This highlights the issue completely, because both are completely the wrong choice. Lying is wrong, of course. But answering a simple question like "What do you do on the weekends?" with a detailed list of your current interests is just as bad. If you start off answering a basic small-talk question with something like his, off course it's going to be off-putting...but not because it's nerdy, but because it's just weird. Also worth quoting here: Show nested quote +Members of the campaign are expected to keep silent about the game when she’s around. Being in denial is one thing, but honestly, is there a reason to talk about it in the first place? If she's around, its because he wants to hang out with her, which means conversations should include her. Talking about a D&D game, regardless of the content, completely cuts her out unless she's genuinely interested.
Yes. You're right about that first part. I'm not necessarily suggesting going whole hog from the very beginning. THAT is hyperbole. In fact, I believe I address it later, when I say not to shove things in people's faces. What you think is too much is just that, and you shouldn't do that. But you shouldn't be afraid to say "Oh, mostly watch cartoons and play D&D with my friends." That seems totally reasonable AND honest to me. Hell, I did pretty much that on my first date with my current girlfriend.
And yes, we shouldn't ONLY talk about the campaign around her, but we're not allowed to REFERENCE it, or make INSIDE JOKES. Which is pretty much our primary form of communication. Because he's worried that if we even explained it then dropped it, she'd be pissed or judgmental. And that's fucked up.
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I feel like most people have actually heard of this "competitive gaming" and most of the time they reference LoL. And I really thank LoL for kind of partly bridging that social gap.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 02 2012 08:57 Peanutbutter717 wrote:
I feel like most people have actually heard of this "competitive gaming" and most of the time they reference LoL. And I really thank LoL for kind of partly bridging that social gap.
There's a post about how much I love LoL coming sooner rather than later. =)
DON'T WORRY DOTA2 PEOPLE. I LIKE THAT TOO AND AM PLANNING TO POST ABOUT IT. #preemptive
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So here's an article on "Nerd Shame", which is surely a phenomena no doubt. I only hope that a similar article gets written on "Nerd Hubris", or the tendency for some nerds to bury their friends and relatives in a singular, repetitive celebration of their nerdiness, ignorant to the suffocation they may be causing. Let us start up a pathology why don't we.
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Nothing to be ashamed about, just be yourself and fuck the world. 1a2a3a into the vajayjay.
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Another great read, thanks. I'd like to echo the suggestion that a couple others made, a discussion/blog about how some "nerds" grow out of their shame stage and start oversharing about their hobbies is another really interesting topic. I know that when I first got to college, I made an effort to be more up-front about the "weird" things I was interested in, and it took me a while to realize that I was being obnoxious about it.
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United States4714 Posts
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United States15536 Posts
On October 02 2012 13:41 corpuscle wrote:
Another great read, thanks. I'd like to echo the suggestion that a couple others made, a discussion/blog about how some "nerds" grow out of their shame stage and start oversharing about their hobbies is another really interesting topic. I know that when I first got to college, I made an effort to be more up-front about the "weird" things I was interested in, and it took me a while to realize that I was being obnoxious about it.
I think it's a moderately normal process in becoming accepting of your own traits that others may not immediately accept. First, there's adopting the trait. Then you become ashamed of it because of your peers/others who look down upon it. Then you realize how much you love it and lash out with a HUGE amount of loving it publicly, which can be stifling to others and justify things for the people looking down on it.
And hopefully eventually you just become comfortable with who you are and what you enjoy and just act like it's any other thing in your life: enjoyable but not something you hide OR shove in others' faces.
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telling a girl you play video games on the first date is about as interesting as her saying she likes shopping
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United States15536 Posts
On October 03 2012 02:49 QuanticHawk wrote:
telling a girl you play video games on the first date is about as interesting as her saying she likes shopping
And I imagine you should respect her hobbies and she should respect yours, especially if one of you asked. If you're not interested in how she occupies her time (and she's not in yours) perhaps you should be reevaluating why you're on a date.
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On October 03 2012 02:49 QuanticHawk wrote:
telling a girl you play video games on the first date is about as interesting as her saying she likes shopping
Every blog could use more pithy quips from you.
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it isnt about respect or a lack there of. it's that video games (or shopping for a girl) is just about the most generic and banal answer you can conjure up in response to the question 'what do you like to do in your free time' .
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United States15536 Posts
On October 03 2012 03:13 QuanticHawk wrote:
it isnt about respect or a lack there of. it's that video games (or shopping for a girl) is just about the most generic and banal answer you can conjure up in response to the question 'what do you like to do in your free time' .
I mean, not everyone is going to say "Oh, I go skydiving," or "I organize grassroots movements for Ugandan peace," or "I hack into government computers". If video games (or shopping) are what you do in your free time, what's wrong with saying it?
Also, I'm pretty sure the most generic and banal answer to that question is "Hang out with my friends." That one's been around far longer than video games.
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...it's still boring as fuck and every other 20 something year old does it??
i mean, maybe your method is boring your date to sleep and having your way with them that way, but i was under the impression that the goal is dating is to mention unique stuff about yourself so you seem a tad different from every other person. Like the only way I'd ever mention video games early on would be to say that I am a pro gamer with almost 20k posts. But you can't do that.
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United States15536 Posts
On October 03 2012 03:44 QuanticHawk wrote:
...it's still boring as fuck and every other 20 something year old does it??
i mean, maybe your method is boring your date to sleep and having your way with them that way, but i was under the impression that the goal is dating is to mention unique stuff about yourself so you seem a tad different from every other person. Like the only way I'd ever mention video games early on would be to say that I am a pro gamer with almost 20k posts. But you can't do that.
... I guess I'll just go ahead and ignore your classy assertion that I'm a rapist or your own epeen jerking.
As far as saying you're into video games on dates goes, then there are always ways to make the seemingly "boring" stuff interesting. If you can't do that with video games, then maybe there are other things you CAN talk about in an interesting way. I don't have that particular problem, but the point of my post is neither for me to brag or to provide dating advice at all.
On October 03 2012 03:54 EffervescentAureola wrote:
Next time don't tell a girl you like video games, instead tell her you like to pee on the side of the road. That's real classy and will attract the right kinds of girls.
That wouldn't be boring.
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Next time don't tell a girl you like video games, instead tell her you like to pee on the side of the road. That's real classy and will attract the right kinds of girls.
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EPT
