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On April 27 2012 06:59 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:59 kainzero wrote:
4 - talented rts players
i dunno. just like talented athletes could fail at sports that aren't their own. i can see top BW players not being top anymore. even the coaches already admitted that. and it would definitely be sad to think about never seeing a bw flash vs. bisu anymore when they're at their peak now in a game that we know they're good at.
There is a real possibility that many BW players will fail in their transition to SC2, there's no sense denying it. But I have a hard time believing a player like Flash won't see at least some success. Flash's skill comes in part from a strong, inate talent. Maybe he won't be a bonjwa in SC2, but I think he will be successful. But someone like Zero, who's good but not god; yeah you could be right. Umm, zero is strategically the most innovative player in BW for the past few years.. the 4 base mass sunk zvp, mass overlord ling bombing while engaging mech, queens vs mech, lurk contain on the nazi map. all by him
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On April 28 2012 05:21 storkfan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 06:59 TheToast wrote:On April 27 2012 05:59 kainzero wrote:
4 - talented rts players
i dunno. just like talented athletes could fail at sports that aren't their own. i can see top BW players not being top anymore. even the coaches already admitted that. and it would definitely be sad to think about never seeing a bw flash vs. bisu anymore when they're at their peak now in a game that we know they're good at.
There is a real possibility that many BW players will fail in their transition to SC2, there's no sense denying it. But I have a hard time believing a player like Flash won't see at least some success. Flash's skill comes in part from a strong, inate talent. Maybe he won't be a bonjwa in SC2, but I think he will be successful. But someone like Zero, who's good but not god; yeah you could be right. Umm, zero is strategically the most innovative player in BW for the past few years.. the 4 base mass sunk zvp, mass overlord ling bombing while engaging mech, queens vs mech, lurk contain on the nazi map. all by him
I'm aware Zero is awesome, but we were specifically talking about top players. kainzero's original comment was "i can see top BW players not being top anymore", Zero I think falls into that category. My point was that it seems highly unlikely that the Bonjwas like Flash wouldn't see success in SC2, given their incredible inate talent.
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Well if Zergbong and Iron can why not everyone else in Kespa top 30?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On April 27 2012 04:01 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 03:51 Chef wrote:
The hybrid tournament is the clear phasing out of a BW in the roster of games played on OGN. The only reason they are doing it at all is to try and maintain the infrastructure that has been built by BW as much as possible while eventually removing it. You are a complete asshole for suggesting there is any reason for a BW fan to be happy about it, and stating the obvious that an SC2 fan should be happy given that they're going to have an actually well-produced league soon.
Congratulations. I'm pretty sure you've missed my point. I'm well aware that it's a potentially shitty situation for all involved. SC2 fans aren't exactly ecstatic about having Kespa get involved in their game, and the fallout for GSL could be pretty serious. And I for one am not crazy about the thought of more Korean domination in a scene where competitive foriegners are already becoming a rarity. There's a lot to be unhappy about for both communities in this situation. The point I'm trying to make is that if we look past the obvious downsides, they're are quite a few positive things that could come out of this. That's the whole idea behind seeing the glass 'half full'. QQing isn't going to change anything, so we might as well try to focus on the positive aspects of this. I'm sorry that you have to see everything in terms of SC2 vs. BW, but there's a lot more going on here than just that.
There is no upside for BW fans about BW phasing out, because they watch Proleague for that, BroodWar and not SC2.
We aren't stupid, this is the first step to BW completly dissapearing into SC2, and there are no upsides for us to look at because BW fans do not like watching SC2 and our favorite players moving to SC2 will not change that for a lot. All it does is make it painfull more to watch, which is why frankly I have distanced myself from BW in the past months.
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On April 27 2012 03:35 blubbdavid wrote:
If the BW and SC2 fanbases were engaged in a Cold War...then the BW side would surely be AMERICA?
Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you. 
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On April 28 2012 12:27 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:01 TheToast wrote:On April 27 2012 03:51 Chef wrote:
The hybrid tournament is the clear phasing out of a BW in the roster of games played on OGN. The only reason they are doing it at all is to try and maintain the infrastructure that has been built by BW as much as possible while eventually removing it. You are a complete asshole for suggesting there is any reason for a BW fan to be happy about it, and stating the obvious that an SC2 fan should be happy given that they're going to have an actually well-produced league soon.
Congratulations. I'm pretty sure you've missed my point. I'm well aware that it's a potentially shitty situation for all involved. SC2 fans aren't exactly ecstatic about having Kespa get involved in their game, and the fallout for GSL could be pretty serious. And I for one am not crazy about the thought of more Korean domination in a scene where competitive foriegners are already becoming a rarity. There's a lot to be unhappy about for both communities in this situation. The point I'm trying to make is that if we look past the obvious downsides, they're are quite a few positive things that could come out of this. That's the whole idea behind seeing the glass 'half full'. QQing isn't going to change anything, so we might as well try to focus on the positive aspects of this. I'm sorry that you have to see everything in terms of SC2 vs. BW, but there's a lot more going on here than just that. There is no upside for BW fans about BW phasing out, because they watch Proleague for that, BroodWar and not SC2. We aren't stupid, this is the first step to BW completly dissapearing into SC2, and there are no upsides for us to look at because BW fans do not like watching SC2 and our favorite players moving to SC2 will not change that for a lot. All it does is make it painfull more to watch, which is why frankly I have distanced myself from BW in the past months.
Stuff changes, and the basis of e-sports means it's an industry that's very volatile and subject to change. There's even going to come a day when pro-SC2 is going to die, there's no question in my mind about that. Advances in technology, game engines, and the transient nature of the fan bases mean that this is pretty much going to happen for every game.
You can either QQ about it, or you can be optimistic and find something positive about the transition. Saying that there is no upside for BW fans is absurd. We are still going to get to watch some amazing players duke it out in what are going to be some amazing games, awesome rivalries, and over all entertaining match ups. Maybe it's not the best game, maybe it's not as good as BW. But I think any e-sports fan can find something to be positive about in the transition.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: at the end of the day, if e-sports survives in some form; it's been a good day.
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On April 27 2012 06:59 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 05:59 kainzero wrote:
4 - talented rts players
i dunno. just like talented athletes could fail at sports that aren't their own. i can see top BW players not being top anymore. even the coaches already admitted that. and it would definitely be sad to think about never seeing a bw flash vs. bisu anymore when they're at their peak now in a game that we know they're good at.
There is a real possibility that many BW players will fail in their transition to SC2, there's no sense denying it. But I have a hard time believing a player like Flash won't see at least some success. Flash's skill comes in part from a strong, inate talent. Maybe he won't be a bonjwa in SC2, but I think he will be successful. But someone like Zero, who's good but not god; yeah you could be right.
Actually MMA said in an interview that Zero is very good in SC2 and with enough practice could reach Grandmasters  .
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On April 29 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 12:27 Kipsate wrote:On April 27 2012 04:01 TheToast wrote:On April 27 2012 03:51 Chef wrote:
The hybrid tournament is the clear phasing out of a BW in the roster of games played on OGN. The only reason they are doing it at all is to try and maintain the infrastructure that has been built by BW as much as possible while eventually removing it. You are a complete asshole for suggesting there is any reason for a BW fan to be happy about it, and stating the obvious that an SC2 fan should be happy given that they're going to have an actually well-produced league soon.
Congratulations. I'm pretty sure you've missed my point. I'm well aware that it's a potentially shitty situation for all involved. SC2 fans aren't exactly ecstatic about having Kespa get involved in their game, and the fallout for GSL could be pretty serious. And I for one am not crazy about the thought of more Korean domination in a scene where competitive foriegners are already becoming a rarity. There's a lot to be unhappy about for both communities in this situation. The point I'm trying to make is that if we look past the obvious downsides, they're are quite a few positive things that could come out of this. That's the whole idea behind seeing the glass 'half full'. QQing isn't going to change anything, so we might as well try to focus on the positive aspects of this. I'm sorry that you have to see everything in terms of SC2 vs. BW, but there's a lot more going on here than just that. There is no upside for BW fans about BW phasing out, because they watch Proleague for that, BroodWar and not SC2. We aren't stupid, this is the first step to BW completly dissapearing into SC2, and there are no upsides for us to look at because BW fans do not like watching SC2 and our favorite players moving to SC2 will not change that for a lot. All it does is make it painfull more to watch, which is why frankly I have distanced myself from BW in the past months. Stuff changes, and the basis of e-sports means it's an industry that's very volatile and subject to change. There's even going to come a day when pro-SC2 is going to die, there's no question in my mind about that. Advances in technology, game engines, and the transient nature of the fan bases mean that this is pretty much going to happen for every game. You can either QQ about it, or you can be optimistic and find something positive about the transition. Saying that there is no upside for BW fans is absurd. We are still going to get to watch some amazing players duke it out in what are going to be some amazing games, awesome rivalries, and over all entertaining match ups. Maybe it's not the best game, maybe it's not as good as BW. But I think any e-sports fan can find something to be positive about in the transition. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: at the end of the day, if e-sports survives in some form; it's been a good day.
There is no upside for BW fans. You can already "watch some amazing players duke it out in what are amazing games, with awesome rivalries, and entertaining matchups" BW PL. If it's not as good as BW, then how is there any upside?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On April 29 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 12:27 Kipsate wrote:On April 27 2012 04:01 TheToast wrote:On April 27 2012 03:51 Chef wrote:
The hybrid tournament is the clear phasing out of a BW in the roster of games played on OGN. The only reason they are doing it at all is to try and maintain the infrastructure that has been built by BW as much as possible while eventually removing it. You are a complete asshole for suggesting there is any reason for a BW fan to be happy about it, and stating the obvious that an SC2 fan should be happy given that they're going to have an actually well-produced league soon.
Congratulations. I'm pretty sure you've missed my point. I'm well aware that it's a potentially shitty situation for all involved. SC2 fans aren't exactly ecstatic about having Kespa get involved in their game, and the fallout for GSL could be pretty serious. And I for one am not crazy about the thought of more Korean domination in a scene where competitive foriegners are already becoming a rarity. There's a lot to be unhappy about for both communities in this situation. The point I'm trying to make is that if we look past the obvious downsides, they're are quite a few positive things that could come out of this. That's the whole idea behind seeing the glass 'half full'. QQing isn't going to change anything, so we might as well try to focus on the positive aspects of this. I'm sorry that you have to see everything in terms of SC2 vs. BW, but there's a lot more going on here than just that. There is no upside for BW fans about BW phasing out, because they watch Proleague for that, BroodWar and not SC2. We aren't stupid, this is the first step to BW completly dissapearing into SC2, and there are no upsides for us to look at because BW fans do not like watching SC2 and our favorite players moving to SC2 will not change that for a lot. All it does is make it painfull more to watch, which is why frankly I have distanced myself from BW in the past months. Stuff changes, and the basis of e-sports means it's an industry that's very volatile and subject to change. There's even going to come a day when pro-SC2 is going to die, there's no question in my mind about that. Advances in technology, game engines, and the transient nature of the fan bases mean that this is pretty much going to happen for every game. You can either QQ about it, or you can be optimistic and find something positive about the transition. Saying that there is no upside for BW fans is absurd. We are still going to get to watch some amazing players duke it out in what are going to be some amazing games, awesome rivalries, and over all entertaining match ups. Maybe it's not the best game, maybe it's not as good as BW. But I think any e-sports fan can find something to be positive about in the transition. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: at the end of the day, if e-sports survives in some form; it's been a good day.
I know it changes
I know I can't stop it
That does not mean that there is an upside for BW fans, it is not Brood War, and I really dislike that attitude of hurr durr esports, are BW fans supposed to watch a game because its considered a bloody esport? No, we watch it because its Brood War. You don't see everyone tuning into League of Legends, Dota, Quake, or all of the bloody games named esports for the sake of GROWING ESPORTS, you watch what you LIKE to watch.
No Brood War, No upside, thats just how it is for those who follow BW and there is nothing positive about nothing.
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EPT
