EPTWorship the sun, and proof of creationsim - Page 2
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
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PassionFruit
294 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Eu9SQSvqdYc/TKj7hwJ5SAI/AAAAAAAABTY/ClofIPa_OlQ/s1600/then-a-miracle-occurs-cartoon-may-2008.png) Edit: But Carlin is a funny guy. Gotta love his preamble about the "man in the sky" to this joke. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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PassionFruit
294 Posts
On April 20 2012 14:21 rei wrote: well let's define my god, my god provides shelter, food, water, it sacrificed itself and reincarnated likely 3 times in order for us to came into existence, and it also prophezises a doomsday destruction of our human world when it expands after it used up all the hydrogen and start burning Helium as fuel for its nuclear fusion. Now can a dog and a cat do all that? Well there you go. You see how that definition is replete with any mention of there being an "all powerful sentient being." So even if I agree with everything you said, it doesn't change anything at all. You're just relabeling what I would call sun + physics as a "god." It's semantics...and you missed my whole point about the dog/cat analogy. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
Ok...I don't even care anymore. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
Now you are ganna say but wait, the sun will still do the same things without life, hence the existence of liquid H2O and photosynthesis that plants use is not there for the benefit of life. and then i will tell you, without life there to experience the existence the sun and all its doings there would be no notion of sentient, and therefore no fuck was given to anything the sun does or feel. and whatever the sun does is certainly not providing anything for anyone's benefit. the point is only sentient being can interrupt something else as sentient. PS. i'm committing strawman fallacy.  | ||
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50bani
Romania480 Posts
It is of maximum importance that whatever your gods are, they are sentient beings that can interact with the human worshipers. The whole idea of god worship is that you get a way to influence your own destiny by appeasing the gods. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10665 Posts
Why is your Sun a God again? Because you decided to worship it because it played an important part in the history of our Planet/Solar System? Really? See... I can agree with all your statements and still don't think the sun is a God because there is still absoluetly no reason to think so... So, you fail. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Do you serve a brooding not so joyful man whos on a quest? | ||
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oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
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ReturnStroke
United States801 Posts
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Khazroul
United Kingdom206 Posts
you mention sentience as the sun understanding that we need light and shelter, but how do you know the sun really understands this and that it isn't just a normal by product of the suns makeup? I also doubt that the sun is in any way all knowing nor did it create everything in 7 days. does it answer you prayers? | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On April 20 2012 16:27 50bani wrote: A simple definition of God would be "the laws of nature personified" It is of maximum importance that whatever your gods are, they are sentient beings that can interact with the human worshipers. The whole idea of god worship is that you get a way to influence your own destiny by appeasing the gods. I will try to defend each and every single definition of god you guys can come up with. My god interact with human worshipers by giving us food and shelter and water. Not only does my god created the solar system, he also prophezise that future at around 5-6 billion years our world would be destroyed. My god's miracles happened to be understood by human, so we no longer call them miracles we call them science, but whatever you call them you can't deny the fact that these miracles does exist and still happening right now. Let's compare it to the Christian God: 1) it's a all powerful creator that self-sacrificed itself and reincarnated itself several times over to create the world we know,(check, my god one upped jesus here, he only did it once.) 2( it still provide food shelter and water for every living creature ever existed.( i would say my god does a lot more than Jesus' bread and whine for a few people and the providing part along is proof that my god is sentient being) 3) my god will kill off all life in the future and none shall live, everything will die in heat of its almighty unless we survive by colonize some other planets, and even then my god will adjust its methods after few million years and stop its fusion and freeze us to death unless we are evolve enough to to survive without my god.( and your god only bought the flood? and couldn't even do the job right?) when you feed your pet dog/cat you would think that the pet would look at you as god. Just because you have to harvest and hunt doesn't mean my god didn't put the deer and weed on earth there through the process of evolution. It just happened that my god doesn't hand feed every living being and put food on a plate. You ask why? well isn't it obvious? my god is the sun it has no hands? what are you to question and say what god has to look like? | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On April 20 2012 17:40 Velr wrote: So, i read all your stuff and I probably don't get something but... Why is your Sun a God again? Because you decided to worship it because it played an important part in the history of our Planet/Solar System? Really? See... I can agree with all your statements and still don't think the sun is a God because there is still absoluetly no reason to think so... So, you fail. the sun is a god because it premise 1 created us by dying and reincarnating 3times, premise 2 it shows it cares about us by constantly provide heat, water, and food for us. premise 3 Without the sun we wouldn't exist, premise 4 without the sun evolution wouldn't have taken place, premise 5 sun is worthy of worship because of (1,2,3,4) damn it guys how long do i have to repeat this? someone come up with something new, stop bring up the definition of god thing shit doesn't work, as I can show evidence of my god caring for its subjects by giving us water food and shelter. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On April 20 2012 20:16 Khazroul wrote: The big bang was God! you mention sentience as the sun understanding that we need light and shelter, but how do you know the sun really understands this and that it isn't just a normal by product of the suns makeup? I also doubt that the sun is in any way all knowing nor did it create everything in 7 days. does it answer you prayers? Just because you understand how my god provide for us doesn't mean you understand why it does so. Just like your pet (cat/dog) knows how you feed them (pet food and bowl) but never wonder why you feed them. and I never claim my god is all knowing, nor did i claim it created everything in 7 days, that would be delusional, my god took a few billion years to create the solar system, and the solar system only. and my god may and may not be all knowing, we don't know yet, all we know is what we have evidences on, it provides food/shelter/water for every living being it created. and since only living being that's evolved can understand what sentience means, therefore without the sun the term sentience wouldn't even have any meaning whatsoever. let's try something new plz, this is a dead end. PS.I have to go teach high school kids science now, i will be back after work. | ||
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Khazroul
United Kingdom206 Posts
also you mention we are made of stardust but that doesn't mean we are made of dust from the original nearby star, it could be almost any extinct star. finally if you want to sell the sentience to me, I'd like you to pray, or ask your God to give a sign that it a) understands your worship and b)) actually wants you to worship it (maybe it hates it despite being a God?) if you can do this then I will gladly worship the sun | ||
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Qiyamah
United States6 Posts
Even though there is countless of reasons why He's worthy of worship. 1. God is unique: There is none like him. 2. God has no beginning or end. 3. God is the creator and not created. Reasons why the sun can not be a god. 1. The sun is not unique, there is countless of stars and pretty much each has the same role. 2. The sun has a beginning and eventually will die out. 3. The sun is created. | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On April 20 2012 13:24 rei wrote: @CrazyF1r3f0x the sole premise of atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities based on lack of evidence. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism), and here I have a god that provides for us, food, shelter, water, air, warmth and ask nothing in return. and I can proof it exists by looking up in the sky tomorrow morning. I have defeated atheism if you can't refute my logic. You can't call yourself atheist if even there is one person in the world can proof that a god does exist with evidence, and on top of that this god provides for us and not just a meaning less god that does nothing and being pointless like you suggests. damn i'm too good at this If your own personal semantic definition of a God is the Sun, then sure. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On April 20 2012 23:42 Khazroul wrote: alright then... we said we want our God to be sentient, and you effectively said that we can't prove the sun isn't (I mean it does provide after all it must do it on purpose right?) but you should be the one proving it not us(its impossible to disprove just like you can't prove to me that there is no chocolate teapot in space)... also you mention we are made of stardust but that doesn't mean we are made of dust from the original nearby star, it could be almost any extinct star. finally if you want to sell the sentience to me, I'd like you to pray, or ask your God to give a sign that it a) understands your worship and b)) actually wants you to worship it (maybe it hates it despite being a God?) if you can do this then I will gladly worship the sun that's a good one, took me a while, but let me attempt to manipulate you, let me know if i'm convincing to you. I said that the evidence of my god being sentient is the fact that it provides for us, and you then made the straw man fallacy and by saying "after all it must do it on purpose right?" my answer to that is no, it doesn't have to be on purpose, don't tell me you can't think of an example in nature where something provides food for something else without doing it on purpose. A good one would be a horse shit all over the place, and the fly are eating all them shits, the horse didn't give a shit about the fly, but yet it provided for the fly so again I have the burden of prove, and I say my prove is that my god provides for us. How do you refute this logically? and your last paragraph is also a trap, you are setting up a trap to put me in an impossible situation to proof something that I have a burden on. In a fair and none-fallacious contest of logic, I am the one who designs how I should prove my point, not you. I'm here to answer the hows and whats with facts, i'm not here to answer the whys, because I am not intelligent enough to gasp the whole design. But I can give logical hypothesis as to why my god doesn't communicate and why it behaves the way it does. (just like we know how gravity works and what feels like, but we don't know why the law of gravity act the way it does) before I make my hypothesis let em beef it up by quoting Neil Degress Tyson and the context is intelligence of live forms " Would we, as humans, ever consider attempting to communicate with a worm? Would that same worm even know that we’re trying to communicate, much less that we’re intelligent?" (By the way, in this metaphor, we’re the worms and the sun is us.) and here is one possible hypothesis as to why my god doesn't communicate with us directly. so with the Horse shit and fly + us and worm example I will present you with this funny idea that my god doesn't recognize us as worthy of communicating, it doesn't even recognize we are intelligent, and it provides for us as a by product of doing whatever it wants to do. In this metaphor the sun is the Horse, the horse shit is the food and water and shelter, and finally the fly is us.( who are so arrogantly think our intellect is worthy of recognition by god) and here is another hypothesis, maybe sun is lonely, it wants to create some thing intelligent enough to recognize itself as a sentient being. So Sun try and try again, exploding itself over and over to create intelligent beings by the process of formation of new sun---->formation of planets-------->abiogenesis------>evolution------>sentient beings that are worthy of its recognition, with each reset by supernova it releases heavier elements so evolution can have a more diverse ingredients. And just maybe the criteria to be consider worthy of its recognition is when we no longer need the sun to provide for us and we can survive on our own when our sun burns out all hydrogen and start burning Helium and then after helium it will go dark. Maybe by that point if we are still around and kicking it will recognize us as intelligent and worthy of communication. Are you convinced yet? convert now and start learning science and prepare for the future day when the sun is no longer there somewhere around 5-6billions years in the future. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:23 cydial wrote: If your own personal semantic definition of a God is the Sun, then sure. Yet this definition of a god one ups that of jesus and all the other gods in all religions, my god has a bigger dick than all the rest, in fact if all other religion goes by this high standard, their miracles are nothing but small flies in comparison Here my god actually provided food water and shelter for ALL life ever existed, and I can prove it. Jesus made a couple of bread, some whine for 10 ppl big deal, not impressed. Just because my god doesn't force its creations to follow some stupid rule it doesn't make him any less of powerful, in fact it makes my god a better god as it actually grands everybody unlimited rights and free will. I feel for instance I have the right to do anything I please, BUT! If I do something you don’t like I think you have the right to kill me. So where are you gonna find a fairer fucking deal than that? So the next time some asshole says to you “I have the right to my opinion.” You say, “oh yeah? Well I have the right to my opinion and my opinion is you have no right to your opinion!” then shoot the fuck and walk away… | ||
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