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Elite Idiocy - Page 2

Blogs > thedeadhaji
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Lambertus
Profile Joined February 2010
South Africa995 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 18:51:46
March 01 2012 18:50 GMT
#21
On March 02 2012 03:31 Kukaracha wrote:
This blog made me think of this.

Show nested quote +
MONTREAL — A new study says rich people are more likely to engage in unethical behaviour than their poorer counterparts -- like cutting off motorists, lying in a negotiation and cheating to win a prize.

That's the finding from researchers at the University of California and the University of Toronto, published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America.


I experience that every day at the moment in South Africa...a wealthy minority can be really really annoying. What I see day to day in the supermarkets or in the shops around here...its disgusting.

Edit: eu.exodus, thats what I'm talking about...
The only known Reverend on TL playing SC2 and BW (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409226)
dongmydrum
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States139 Posts
March 01 2012 18:53 GMT
#22
On March 02 2012 02:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:
About your blog: I agree completely and it's a good point.

edit: Soap made the same point two posts above me.

Off topic, but in response to the consensus view of the comments on the article on the Bloomberg site: I'd love to see the American lower class who deny the relativity of suffering justify their hardships to people literally dying of starvation and dehydration. I can't imagine anyone with access to the internet and spare time to read and write a response to a Bloomberg article has any grounds for denying the truth of the relativity of suffering.


because we all believe the world revolves around us. even in online games, anyone better than us is "a nerd who has no life" and worse than us is "an untalented noob"
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
March 01 2012 18:53 GMT
#23
On March 02 2012 03:29 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 02:21 0123456789 wrote:
I'm pretty pissed off myself. I've had to switch from eating a 12 inch subway sub for lunch, to a 6 inch because of finances. 6 inches don't satisfy me enough. I need the big long dark 12 inch subs.


Really? Do we really need sexual innuendos right now?

But people love to complain. While this guy is definitely the embodiment of first world problems, his consumption has also been at an obscene level for many people, and with pay cuts, his salary can no longer match consumption. But rather than scaling back consumption, he compains to the world. A bit out of touch with the rest of the world's financial condition I would say.


Lol I read it and I seriously though he was talking about sandwiches until you pointed it out O_O
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
Clues
Profile Joined April 2010
United States186 Posts
March 01 2012 19:16 GMT
#24
Something they only touched on briefly in that article but I think is a main reason for all the fear these guys feel was that none of them are saving any money, 401(k) aside -which really is only for retirement.

"Richard Scheiner, 58, a real-estate investor and hedge-fund manager, said most people on Wall Street don’t save.
“When their means are cut, they’re stuck,” said Scheiner, whose New York-based hedge fund, Lane Gate Partners LLC, was down about 15 percent last year. “Not so much an issue for me and my wife because we’ve always saved.”"

Thats just amazing to me, that these smart people at the top of the heap were so confident they would always make $500k+ that they really didn't save, they have no legitimate way to buffer their bonus salary loss and that is really their own fault. I think its a good highlight as to why people are so angry; these guys made tons of money and spent it all without any real outlook to the future, and that viewpoint is what a lot of people see the financial markets doing in general and blame it for the collapse -perhaps rightly so.

Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
March 01 2012 19:20 GMT
#25
Well, in an age of globalized and highly accessible information it's pretty easy to find examples of petty people you don't like. The point you're making (it seems) is that it's dumb to complain to people about these problems when they have much bigger problems (ie the readership, the interviewer, etc), and I agree, but when you're that rich and powerful you probably stop even caring about the feelings of others lol.

Insensitive, but why bother seeking out crappy people to have negative opinions about when you are never going to meet them or put those opinions to use? It is just an exercise in raising your own blood pressure, whilst you sit in a nice heated home knowing when your next meal is, having internet, being otherwise fairly relaxed. Do you really wanna grind your gears that much? I mean it doesn't bother me, I have a home and internet too, you're not making me feel bad by having things, but I'm just wondering about what you actually get out of it.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Vansetsu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1454 Posts
March 01 2012 19:27 GMT
#26
Eh, the only thing I can think of is to scare fellow 1%'s into lobbying for causes that protect there assets? Something along the lines of, "Better straighten this shit out, or it could be YOUR mansion in foreclosure".

Just a shot in the dark.
Only by overcoming many obstacles does a river become - デイヴィ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ド
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
March 01 2012 19:29 GMT
#27
Let me propose another point of view here.

I disagree with the OP, and though my point is somewhat different than Nony's - it's more along his line of thought.

Not that it matters, but my household runs only on my salary, which is just above the national average. I am not anywhere near the top 1%. My biggest expenditures currently are food and rent, which I suspect makes me like most people.

Why would a person allow themselves to go on record as saying they don't feel like they have enough with $350,000?

It could be that he didn't realize $350,000 was a lot of money and that he's a moron. That's possible. It is also possible that it could be that the reporter approached him with the angle of "hey, I'm looking to try to humanize the top 1% in response to the demonizing that has been done in the past and the amount of hate that people who make large amounts of money are taking these days - could you help me with that?" So the person shared his hardships, the reporter reported them in a way which simultaneously seemed like it was accusatory to the bottom 99% and humanizing to the top 1%. The reporter gets a ton of attention, which he deserves for having come up with something so clever. That, to me, seems far more likely.

Along the lines of what Nony is saying, I believe that just about anyone, regardless of salary or hardship, will adapt and come to think of their lives as having good parts and bad parts, parts they love and parts they're afraid of, things which make them happy to be alive, and things which make them wonder if they wouldn't be better off dead. Money doesn't change that. But along divergent lines - shouldn't we just accept that about people and move on? Must we consider this thought to be "man, we're very terrible beings - the extent to which we are terrible is relative" to "it's who we are. Let's stop trying to fight it and start learning to live with it in the most constructive way we can think of?"

Make no mistake - I believe the system providing all this wealth is broken, and needs fixing - and I'm all for that. But along the way, is it really necessary to demonize people who are just being people? Is it really necessary to demonize at all? Can't we just identify the problem and work towards a solution without complaining along the way about how unfair life is (as though all possibilities weren't devoid of an absolute "fairness"), or becoming angsty about our nature as people? This is what we do in starcraft when we see a problem, isn't it?

.... maybe most of us don't... but still, you see my point.
matiK23
Profile Joined May 2011
United States963 Posts
March 01 2012 19:43 GMT
#28
On March 02 2012 02:21 0123456789 wrote:
I'm pretty pissed off myself. I've had to switch from eating a 12 inch subway sub for lunch, to a 6 inch because of finances. 6 inches don't satisfy me enough. I need the big long dark 12 inch subs.


That's what she said.
Without a paddle up shit creek.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 20:03:23
March 01 2012 19:56 GMT
#29
On March 02 2012 04:29 Treehead wrote:
Let me propose another point of view here.

I disagree with the OP, and though my point is somewhat different than Nony's - it's more along his line of thought.

Not that it matters, but my household runs only on my salary, which is just above the national average. I am not anywhere near the top 1%. My biggest expenditures currently are food and rent, which I suspect makes me like most people.

Why would a person allow themselves to go on record as saying they don't feel like they have enough with $350,000?

It could be that he didn't realize $350,000 was a lot of money and that he's a moron. That's possible. It is also possible that it could be that the reporter approached him with the angle of "hey, I'm looking to try to humanize the top 1% in response to the demonizing that has been done in the past and the amount of hate that people who make large amounts of money are taking these days - could you help me with that?" So the person shared his hardships, the reporter reported them in a way which simultaneously seemed like it was accusatory to the bottom 99% and humanizing to the top 1%. The reporter gets a ton of attention, which he deserves for having come up with something so clever. That, to me, seems far more likely.

Along the lines of what Nony is saying, I believe that just about anyone, regardless of salary or hardship, will adapt and come to think of their lives as having good parts and bad parts, parts they love and parts they're afraid of, things which make them happy to be alive, and things which make them wonder if they wouldn't be better off dead. Money doesn't change that. But along divergent lines - shouldn't we just accept that about people and move on? Must we consider this thought to be "man, we're very terrible beings - the extent to which we are terrible is relative" to "it's who we are. Let's stop trying to fight it and start learning to live with it in the most constructive way we can think of?"

Make no mistake - I believe the system providing all this wealth is broken, and needs fixing - and I'm all for that. But along the way, is it really necessary to demonize people who are just being people? Is it really necessary to demonize at all? Can't we just identify the problem and work towards a solution without complaining along the way about how unfair life is (as though all possibilities weren't devoid of an absolute "fairness"), or becoming angsty about our nature as people? This is what we do in starcraft when we see a problem, isn't it?

.... maybe most of us don't... but still, you see my point.


why shouldnt we demonize them? with the rich setting the rules by which everyone lives, when a millionare sits there saying how tough things are it goes beyond 'lifes hard'. now obviously the guy in the article isnt part of the super wealthy who lobby congress, he's also not the only person talking about being 'hard done by' by the economic climate. its no secret that the american (and probably most countries) tax system is designed by and for the rich. to then complain about having it tough is kinda disgusting. these are the people who without a doubt have both the means and the knowhow to change things and they still feel like they dont get enough.

ridiculous.

slightly more back to the original topic though. he may really believe there are things in his life that need improvement. he may really believe that not being able to buy a new car every year, buy a bigger house and send his kids to private school sucks, but haji's point was why even say it? you say its to humanize the banker? why doesnt he aim for sympathy first. rather than sound like a real human by being a dick like most people, why didnt he play the puppy dog eyes focus on something people actually might care about.

On March 02 2012 02:37 Soap wrote:
I don't see people being apologetic about having internet access to read the article, a privilege billions of people around the world cannot afford. They just choose to bitch about those who have achieved more, though I'm surprised to see that point of view in your blog.



but that wasnt the point ;D the point is normal people dont fly to africa, look for a mud hut, then try to convince the little man in the corner that their running tap water and cheap electricity isnt enough they need moaaarr. noone is that insensitive or stupid. and yet this banker, who you would assume is smarter than your average bear, proclaims to the public that he needs more money.
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-01 20:40:44
March 01 2012 20:38 GMT
#30
On March 02 2012 04:56 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 04:29 Treehead wrote:
Let me propose another point of view here.

I disagree with the OP, and though my point is somewhat different than Nony's - it's more along his line of thought.

Not that it matters, but my household runs only on my salary, which is just above the national average. I am not anywhere near the top 1%. My biggest expenditures currently are food and rent, which I suspect makes me like most people.

Why would a person allow themselves to go on record as saying they don't feel like they have enough with $350,000?

It could be that he didn't realize $350,000 was a lot of money and that he's a moron. That's possible. It is also possible that it could be that the reporter approached him with the angle of "hey, I'm looking to try to humanize the top 1% in response to the demonizing that has been done in the past and the amount of hate that people who make large amounts of money are taking these days - could you help me with that?" So the person shared his hardships, the reporter reported them in a way which simultaneously seemed like it was accusatory to the bottom 99% and humanizing to the top 1%. The reporter gets a ton of attention, which he deserves for having come up with something so clever. That, to me, seems far more likely.

Along the lines of what Nony is saying, I believe that just about anyone, regardless of salary or hardship, will adapt and come to think of their lives as having good parts and bad parts, parts they love and parts they're afraid of, things which make them happy to be alive, and things which make them wonder if they wouldn't be better off dead. Money doesn't change that. But along divergent lines - shouldn't we just accept that about people and move on? Must we consider this thought to be "man, we're very terrible beings - the extent to which we are terrible is relative" to "it's who we are. Let's stop trying to fight it and start learning to live with it in the most constructive way we can think of?"

Make no mistake - I believe the system providing all this wealth is broken, and needs fixing - and I'm all for that. But along the way, is it really necessary to demonize people who are just being people? Is it really necessary to demonize at all? Can't we just identify the problem and work towards a solution without complaining along the way about how unfair life is (as though all possibilities weren't devoid of an absolute "fairness"), or becoming angsty about our nature as people? This is what we do in starcraft when we see a problem, isn't it?

.... maybe most of us don't... but still, you see my point.


why shouldnt we demonize them? with the rich setting the rules by which everyone lives, when a millionare sits there saying how tough things are it goes beyond 'lifes hard'. now obviously the guy in the article isnt part of the super wealthy who lobby congress, he's also not the only person talking about being 'hard done by' by the economic climate. its no secret that the american (and probably most countries) tax system is designed by and for the rich. to then complain about having it tough is kinda disgusting. these are the people who without a doubt have both the means and the knowhow to change things and they still feel like they dont get enough.

ridiculous.

slightly more back to the original topic though. he may really believe there are things in his life that need improvement. he may really believe that not being able to buy a new car every year, buy a bigger house and send his kids to private school sucks, but haji's point was why even say it? you say its to humanize the banker? why doesnt he aim for sympathy first. rather than sound like a real human by being a dick like most people, why didnt he play the puppy dog eyes focus on something people actually might care about.

Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 02:37 Soap wrote:
I don't see people being apologetic about having internet access to read the article, a privilege billions of people around the world cannot afford. They just choose to bitch about those who have achieved more, though I'm surprised to see that point of view in your blog.



but that wasnt the point ;D the point is normal people dont fly to africa, look for a mud hut, then try to convince the little man in the corner that their running tap water and cheap electricity isnt enough they need moaaarr. noone is that insensitive or stupid. and yet this banker, who you would assume is smarter than your average bear, proclaims to the public that he needs more money.


Does demonizing change anything except your own perceptions and what you feel comfortable with (think carefully about how it changes what you're comfortable with - is that who you want to be)?

No. So what's the point? The point is one of the following:

1. Your perceptions are the most important thing in the world.
2. You're about to do something constructive you wouldn't be comfortable with if you weren't demonizing others (think about the options here).
3. There is no point.

Ever since there was stuff to have, there were people who had more. Your attitude one way or another won't "fix" that problem - and in fact, demonizing some people over others confuses what the problem actually is. (Hint: the problem is *not* something of the form 'man the guy in this report is a jerk, we should stop letting jerks have so much money'.)

Also, how do you know what the man in the article said, what he would have wrote, or how he meant to say it? How do you know that he didn't start out with something much like what I wrote - 'I feel bad for people who have it worse than I do, but I want them to see who we are'. All you know is what the reporter wrote.
FlyingToilet
Profile Joined August 2011
United States840 Posts
March 01 2012 22:40 GMT
#31
I think the u.s. should be renamed to the united empire of earth, and have darth vader as our president, because in all reality that isn't much ridiculous compared to the stuff that happens now a days lol, but jokes aside i am poor and good spirited and i think only the bums and the people today's society consider retards and low life's could probably run this country better than most of the people are. i would say lets have teenagers run our country but lets not get out of hand here! xD
http://justin.tv/flyingtoilet
Gnial
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada907 Posts
March 01 2012 23:08 GMT
#32
The responses to this article, and even the OP's comment itself, baffles me. Why are so many people so jealous of others when it doesn't concern them at all? It is such a rotten emotion, and shows weakness of character.

The fellows current standard of living and expected standard of living just took a huge hit. Just because his relative wealth is higher, everyone here seems to think he shouldn't be complaining.

Well guess what, he may be in the top 1%, but most of you are in the top 1% of the world, and all of you would be in the top 1% in some impoverished countries. And you would be in the top 0.001% in standard of living in the world 100 years ago.

So why, because he is in the top 1% in the U.S., right now, is it all of a sudden reprehensible for him to be professing disappointment for his loss? Think about it. Come up with some arguments. And then see if those arguments apply for yourself relative to homeless people. or the impoverished and suppressed in some foreign countries..

When you have realized that your feelings of animosity towards him are rooted in jealousy, good - you have just grown up a little bit more. Now you can put it aside, start working towards your own personal goals, and stop being so pathetic.
1, eh? 2, eh? 3, eh?
Jedclark
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom903 Posts
March 01 2012 23:15 GMT
#33
On March 02 2012 02:21 0123456789 wrote:
6 inches don't satisfy me enough. I need the big long dark 12 inch


Intentional? :D

dis guy. "I only earn $350k/year, it aint shit". This guys needs a reality check.
"They make it so scrubnubs can PM me. They make it so I can't ignore scrubnubs!" - "I'm gonna show you how great I am." MKP fan since GSL Open Season 2 #hipsternerd
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-02 00:17:19
March 02 2012 00:16 GMT
#34
On March 02 2012 08:08 Gnial wrote:
The responses to this article, and even the OP's comment itself, baffles me. Why are so many people so jealous of others when it doesn't concern them at all? It is such a rotten emotion, and shows weakness of character.

The fellows current standard of living and expected standard of living just took a huge hit. Just because his relative wealth is higher, everyone here seems to think he shouldn't be complaining.

Well guess what, he may be in the top 1%, but most of you are in the top 1% of the world, and all of you would be in the top 1% in some impoverished countries. And you would be in the top 0.001% in standard of living in the world 100 years ago.

So why, because he is in the top 1% in the U.S., right now, is it all of a sudden reprehensible for him to be professing disappointment for his loss? Think about it. Come up with some arguments. And then see if those arguments apply for yourself relative to homeless people. or the impoverished and suppressed in some foreign countries..

When you have realized that your feelings of animosity towards him are rooted in jealousy, good - you have just grown up a little bit more. Now you can put it aside, start working towards your own personal goals, and stop being so pathetic.


Great argument if your point we should be complaining less. Terrible argument if you want to defend his whining.

For the record, I wouldn't complain at all if I was visiting a homeless shelter or an African country. It's bad taste. When 90% of your audience is poorer than you, and probably blames you to some extent for it, you shut the fuck up about your own financial problems.

BTW, I agree that it's reasonable for him to feel bad about making less than he used to. It's known that well-being isn't correlated with income after a certain point ($80,000/year in the US I think), but it's correlated with change in income. So he probably really is upset.

Also, you seem to think that anger towards any rich person must be jealousy. That's certainly not the case.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27179 Posts
March 02 2012 04:50 GMT
#35
I agree with the point that, considering the current political climate in America, it isn't a smart move for the subjects of the article to go public with their situation. The automatic reaction from people will be vitriol.

However, if you look past the dollar amount and think about percentages, their situation is no different than mine would be if I lost 20-30% of my salary. When I budget I examine what percentage of my income I can spend for housing, or vehicles, or whatever. I don't ignore my salary and go for the cheapest option. If my budget responsibilities are 75% of my paycheque and them my income dips to 70% of what it normally is then I am in trouble. My total income doesn't matter.

I don't like the fact that people who are successful are vilified and mocked when they run in to trouble. Of course as the salary goes up this idea is harder and harder to deal with because there is a saturation point where people are simply consuming for the point of consuming. But in the 6 figure range you aren't there yet imo.
ModeratorGodfather
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
March 02 2012 05:28 GMT
#36
On March 02 2012 02:50 Skuller wrote:
I think that one of the problems with finance in America is that it is much easier to make a larger percentage gain if you have a lot of money.

i.e.
If you have 100$, you can safely make $5 by investing intelligently in one year.
If you have 1000$, you can safely make $80 by investing intelligently in that year.

Not only is the amount that you make greater by having a greater principle (amount that you could invest), but the percentage gain is higher.

While this is normal to expect in a healthy economy, in the US, the return on investment that the "1%'ers" can make is much larger than the return on investment that the others can make. All this while lobbying congress for lower taxes in times where arguably more money is needed by the government.

So it's not a question of whether the rich are intelligent or not, it's a question of if this system has come to the point that there is an utter lack of economic mobility (that is, the ability for the poor to become rich). Sure the poor can get more money, and once in awhile there'll be a couple of people that burst through the ranks to the very rich, but the rich get more money. It's getting to the point where the poor cannot move into the middle class (which is shrinking).

Of course, the US is in a "first world problem" situation, as the relative wealth in the US is much higher than in other countries. We're arguing over whether a few can live their dream lives, or more people can live great lives.

In response to the article, it's obvious that the guy is complaining because he has to pick among which elements of his "dream life" that he wants to keep. The financial situation forces some people to change their lifestyle, and nobody likes change. Most likely there are some or a lot of us that live in privileged situations. We're used to the lifestyle that we have. If asked to cut 14% of it out, we would complain. In other words, just because he is rich, I don't think he lost his right to complain about the adjustments he has to make (it just will have little-no effect on the public).


I agree that he still has a right to complain. The psychological stress he feels is undoubtedly real and is no less in magnitude than people who are in more dire straights. However, making his emotions public in these times is foolish.


On March 02 2012 03:28 Eiii wrote:
Honestly, I don't think this article is terribly surprising or insulting. They're just people whose income has been cut drastically, and now they have to cut back on the luxuries or services they've enjoyed, which is difficult or upsetting to anyone regardless of how much money you make. The only confusing thing about the whole article is that they would be dumb enough to complain about their situation to a reporter in this economic climate.

Oh, there's one more thing about the article that really struck me-- someone interviewed in the article mentions that most people at his income level don't save any money and mostly just live hand-to-mouth. While I'm sure it's an exaggeration and there are plenty of people who save and invest wisely (I get the feeling they're the ones smart enough to not go out and publicly complain about cuts in their still-massive compensations), it blows my mind that anyone making that much money would be unable to just set side $100k a year as an investment, safety, or retirement fund.


100% agreed.
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
March 02 2012 05:33 GMT
#37
>HCastorp & Treehead

Completely agree that the article was written by a linkbaiting writer who was looking for pageviews more than anything. Kind of sad to think Bloomberg (which is a pretty decent news outlet) let such a crappy article go live. They have so many good opinion pieces that get no light of day
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
March 02 2012 05:47 GMT
#38
On March 02 2012 02:37 Soap wrote:
I don't see people being apologetic about having internet access to read the article, a privilege billions of people around the world cannot afford. They just choose to bitch about those who have achieved more, though I'm surprised to see that point of view in your blog.


On March 02 2012 02:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:
About your blog: I agree completely and it's a good point.

edit: Soap made the same point two posts above me.

Off topic, but in response to the consensus view of the comments on the article on the Bloomberg site: I'd love to see the American lower class who deny the relativity of suffering justify their hardships to people literally dying of starvation and dehydration. I can't imagine anyone with access to the internet and spare time to read and write a response to a Bloomberg article has any grounds for denying the truth of the relativity of suffering.


On March 02 2012 08:08 Gnial wrote:
The responses to this article, and even the OP's comment itself, baffles me. Why are so many people so jealous of others when it doesn't concern them at all? It is such a rotten emotion, and shows weakness of character.

The fellows current standard of living and expected standard of living just took a huge hit. Just because his relative wealth is higher, everyone here seems to think he shouldn't be complaining.

Well guess what, he may be in the top 1%, but most of you are in the top 1% of the world, and all of you would be in the top 1% in some impoverished countries. And you would be in the top 0.001% in standard of living in the world 100 years ago.

So why, because he is in the top 1% in the U.S., right now, is it all of a sudden reprehensible for him to be professing disappointment for his loss? Think about it. Come up with some arguments. And then see if those arguments apply for yourself relative to homeless people. or the impoverished and suppressed in some foreign countries..

When you have realized that your feelings of animosity towards him are rooted in jealousy, good - you have just grown up a little bit more. Now you can put it aside, start working towards your own personal goals, and stop being so pathetic.


Coincidentally, I had a related discussion with a friend on Sunday, even before this article went live.

There is definitely an absolute degree to suffering. A person who is starving in Africa is in much greater suffering than the family on foodstamps in America, from an objective, absolute perspective.

But there's also an aspect of suffering that is relative and personal. In this sense, the person in Africa, the person getting foodstamps, the financially 'suffering' banker, and the college student who can't figure out what he wants to do with the next 50 years of his life all have a comparatively similar degree of personal torture and suffering of the mental kind.

Absolute suffering and relative personal suffering are both real. But they are also very different beasts.


I honestly don't mind that Mr. Schiff makes $350k a year at age 48. I know a handful of people who were making 10x that amount in their heyday. I also expect to be making around that much by the time I'm that age anyways; if I don't, then I probably have a good reason why I took a detour, so that's fine too.

His unhappiness with the situation is totally fine too. It's incredibly difficult to see the world from outside the shell that is your self. If I were in his shoes I'd likely bitch and moan too. Besides, like Mani said, his suffering is real.

But if I were in his shoes, I would not complain publicly in this current toxic atmosphere towards finance. Who knows, maybe his words were taken completely out of context. One would surely hope that the true "villain" in the situation is the Bloomberg linkbaiting reporter.
Melchior
Profile Joined January 2011
United States112 Posts
March 02 2012 08:56 GMT
#39
On March 02 2012 14:47 thedeadhaji wrote:
Coincidentally, I had a related discussion with a friend on Sunday, even before this article went live.

There is definitely an absolute degree to suffering. A person who is starving in Africa is in much greater suffering than the family on foodstamps in America, from an objective, absolute perspective.

But there's also an aspect of suffering that is relative and personal. In this sense, the person in Africa, the person getting foodstamps, the financially 'suffering' banker, and the college student who can't figure out what he wants to do with the next 50 years of his life all have a comparatively similar degree of personal torture and suffering of the mental kind.

Absolute suffering and relative personal suffering are both real. But they are also very different beasts.


I honestly don't mind that Mr. Schiff makes $350k a year at age 48. I know a handful of people who were making 10x that amount in their heyday. I also expect to be making around that much by the time I'm that age anyways; if I don't, then I probably have a good reason why I took a detour, so that's fine too.

His unhappiness with the situation is totally fine too. It's incredibly difficult to see the world from outside the shell that is your self. If I were in his shoes I'd likely bitch and moan too. Besides, like Mani said, his suffering is real.

But if I were in his shoes, I would not complain publicly in this current toxic atmosphere towards finance. Who knows, maybe his words were taken completely out of context. One would surely hope that the true "villain" in the situation is the Bloomberg linkbaiting reporter.

That's a good point about how absolute and relative suffering are both real. It reminds me of a TED talk I watched where they were saying that what society likes to consider "fake" happiness (synthesized happiness such as settling in life for what you have) is just as physically real as "true" (found) happiness (ah, just found it: Here). Just as a falsely convicted criminal can actually be happy with their time spent incarcerated, an obscenely rich man can be unhappy with his reduced bonus, and his feelings are equally valid. Although, at age 48 I wouldn't consider that obscenely rich by any account...
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
March 02 2012 09:11 GMT
#40
On March 02 2012 09:16 hypercube wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 08:08 Gnial wrote:
The responses to this article, and even the OP's comment itself, baffles me. Why are so many people so jealous of others when it doesn't concern them at all? It is such a rotten emotion, and shows weakness of character.

The fellows current standard of living and expected standard of living just took a huge hit. Just because his relative wealth is higher, everyone here seems to think he shouldn't be complaining.

Well guess what, he may be in the top 1%, but most of you are in the top 1% of the world, and all of you would be in the top 1% in some impoverished countries. And you would be in the top 0.001% in standard of living in the world 100 years ago.

So why, because he is in the top 1% in the U.S., right now, is it all of a sudden reprehensible for him to be professing disappointment for his loss? Think about it. Come up with some arguments. And then see if those arguments apply for yourself relative to homeless people. or the impoverished and suppressed in some foreign countries..

When you have realized that your feelings of animosity towards him are rooted in jealousy, good - you have just grown up a little bit more. Now you can put it aside, start working towards your own personal goals, and stop being so pathetic.


Great argument if your point we should be complaining less. Terrible argument if you want to defend his whining.

For the record, I wouldn't complain at all if I was visiting a homeless shelter or an African country. It's bad taste. When 90% of your audience is poorer than you, and probably blames you to some extent for it, you shut the fuck up about your own financial problems.

BTW, I agree that it's reasonable for him to feel bad about making less than he used to. It's known that well-being isn't correlated with income after a certain point ($80,000/year in the US I think), but it's correlated with change in income. So he probably really is upset.

Also, you seem to think that anger towards any rich person must be jealousy. That's certainly not the case.


I assume you're talking about long term well-being. That isn't related to income significantly after your basic needs are met (I think this is 20k a year, not sure but it's really low). And income changes levels temporarily but it returns to normal rather quickly.

I don't know why but reading this topic makes me appreciate living in Canada for some reason
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
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