• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:14
CEST 08:14
KST 15:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies18Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !18Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview [ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies UA StarCraft: Mawin (T) vs hanniGan (P) Showmatch
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Organizations: Raisi…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1353 users

15 OC vs 16 OC - Page 4

Blogs > darthcaesar
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
narkissos
Profile Joined December 2011
198 Posts
December 31 2011 14:08 GMT
#61
Thank you Sir
NicoakaD
Profile Joined December 2011
Argentina25 Posts
December 31 2011 15:40 GMT
#62
What league u are? If ur not High master, stop being worried about this kind of stuff and improve your macro.
Follow me in twitter! www.twitter.com/NicoakaD
MangoNinja
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada13 Posts
December 31 2011 15:45 GMT
#63
Thank you for the stats ! was wondering when someone going to do this !
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
December 31 2011 16:13 GMT
#64
thanks for doing the math
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
DoubleRobo
Profile Joined April 2011
United States7 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:24:36
December 31 2011 16:24 GMT
#65
really well written, thanks for the info. this kind of theory crafting is what will make the early game airtight in years

edit: it gave me a stupid clown face for my smiley, i took it out
all the way
tappi
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:45:47
December 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#66
On January 01 2012 00:40 NicoakaD wrote:
What league u are? If ur not High master, stop being worried about this kind of stuff and improve your macro.


This is a very easily implemented build order fix, anyone of any skill level can improve themselves with this without any training time.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Kwon
Profile Joined March 2011
Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
December 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#67
I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16.
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:48:19
December 31 2011 16:46 GMT
#68
On December 31 2011 20:30 Thorzain wrote:
If you do the 15 OC, the extra minerals you get from that tiny bit earlier mule often gets you a faster expansion, which makes up for the lost scv production because you can produce 2 scvs at a time a bit earlier than with 16 OC. From my personal tests 16 OC catches up to 15 OC somewhere in the middle of the 5th minute (around 4:30 +- 10 seconds). So if you plan on expanding earlier than that I would suggest a 15 OC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


I had only originally considered this in light of adding on rax for an allin, haha, but this is just as true and the faster double SCV production makes another small difference.


On January 01 2012 01:45 Kwon wrote:
I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16.


Well, it depends on when you build the marine, but most people called it 15 OC afaik. Some people pointed out that the "16 OC" variation is actually 17 OC because of the marine, which is true, but I've heard it called 16 OC most often so I stuck to that.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
zyce
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States649 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:49:15
December 31 2011 16:48 GMT
#69
I don't find this to be conclusive due to the poor build-order choices made immediately after the OC, which throws such statistically marginal differences out the window until a proper test can be done.

(If curious, I'm referring to building rax/2nd depot with the same scv, as well as not optimizing mining)
Beauty is not the goal of competitive sports, but high-level sports are a prime venue for the expression of human beauty. The relation is roughly that of courage to war.
Kwon
Profile Joined March 2011
Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 17:12:05
December 31 2011 17:10 GMT
#70
On January 01 2012 01:46 darthcaesar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2012 01:45 Kwon wrote:
I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16.


Well, it depends on when you build the marine, but most people called it 15 OC afaik. Some people pointed out that the "16 OC" variation is actually 17 OC because of the marine, which is true, but I've heard it called 16 OC most often so I stuck to that.


Oh, its like that. Thanks for clearing that up!
llKenZyll
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States853 Posts
December 31 2011 17:24 GMT
#71
On December 31 2011 13:39 Shalaiyn wrote:
What about 13 barracks 16 OC?

No reason not to make a 12 rax because it doesn't cut workers or anything.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nd6nd/tang_in_his_natural_habitat/
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
December 31 2011 20:31 GMT
#72
I updated the OP with some more info!
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 23:22:58
December 31 2011 23:21 GMT
#73
On December 31 2011 17:50 Mowr wrote:
Nicely done! Just a thought though on supply timings for various builds. I have to test this but say you go 2rax with reactor after the first marine. Here the second supply depot is built after the second barracks and you just barely don't get supply blocket at 19. With an extra SCV I think you do, but again, this needs testing.


It's unclear unless you do some tests yourself. If you 15 OC, the 16 OC guy gets that extra SCV while the 15 OC guy is offline, but after the 15 OC is done, the 15 OC guy is building an SCV while the 16OC guy's CC is offline. Seems like the two builds will more or less converge. I'll have to test reactor/tech 2 rax, but my intuition says that it's unaffected

On January 01 2012 02:24 Lebzetu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2011 13:39 Shalaiyn wrote:
What about 13 barracks 16 OC?

No reason not to make a 12 rax because it doesn't cut workers or anything.


The SCV building the rax gets an extra trip, so 13 rax should be VERY SLIGHTLY richer. If you played TvP in BW, it's similar to how people wait til 250 min and get gas/rax at the same time. The SCVs mine a few more trips, and you don't need the rax so early anyway so they might as well be an extra 24 or so minerals richer
Trucy Wright is hot
hyperknight
Profile Joined May 2011
294 Posts
January 01 2012 07:11 GMT
#74
Wow! well done man. Looks like OC at 16 is the way to go! Thanks for results =)
"you 6poll?" - aLive to IdrA on NASL Sunday Showmatch, Feb 2012
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
January 02 2012 13:30 GMT
#75
I even did 16 oc before the patch lol because you get 1 more scv for gas on tech heavy builds.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
January 02 2012 17:15 GMT
#76
On December 31 2011 20:30 Thorzain wrote:
If you do the 15 OC, the extra minerals you get from that tiny bit earlier mule often gets you a faster expansion, which makes up for the lost scv production because you can produce 2 scvs at a time a bit earlier than with 16 OC. From my personal tests 16 OC catches up to 15 OC somewhere in the middle of the 5th minute (around 4:30 +- 10 seconds). So if you plan on expanding earlier than that I would suggest a 15 OC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


If you want to be greedy you can do a 16OC, build one marine, land your expo, supply and start scv/marine production. Bomber does that when he 1rax FE in TvT, it just cuts half a marine if I remember correctly. He scouts after the rax, but anyway scouting in tvt on a map with more than one spot for the opponent, I don't see many good player (0?) doing it atm.
Zest fanboy.
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
January 03 2012 07:28 GMT
#77
On January 02 2012 22:30 4Servy wrote:
I even did 16 oc before the patch lol because you get 1 more scv for gas on tech heavy builds.


You should only have 3 SCVs on gas, lol. The only thing you'd get pre-patch is an extra SCV on minerals. And that's not worth it because you could instead get faster MULEs. But those times are now in the past. Good times.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Psilo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States115 Posts
January 21 2012 04:46 GMT
#78
Thank you so much.
xJaCEx
Profile Joined August 2010
155 Posts
February 05 2012 05:47 GMT
#79
The reason I like the 16 opening is because when you do the delayed orbital your likely to be dealing with scouting issues so all you have to worry about is turning the command center into an orbital when the scv is done. The other way if your scout is getting attacked or a probe is bugging you its possible you'll be even more delayed on upgrading the orbital as you have to watch for when the rax gets done. I just feel 15 opener has more room for errors so I try to avoid it however I find myself sometimes doing it just because I expect to be able to build the oc right away from doing it the old way for so long.

Here's one I'd like to see answered with colorful graphs how much do you gain from taking a slightly delayed gas
I already know from my own recent testing that it's a large amount because of a snowball effect from something that happens so early on. Amazing what keeping 3.5 extra workers on minerals for a few seconds can do for your econ. That to me suggest that the extra minerals in your example could end up making a larger difference then your graphs suggest.
First blood is as good as anything.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #19
Liquipedia
Patches Events
19:30
Patches' Patch Clash #7
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 561
StarCraft: Brood War
HiyA 126
Icarus 8
League of Legends
JimRising 777
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K826
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox497
Other Games
WinterStarcraft629
C9.Mang0357
RuFF_SC267
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 40
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Universe Titan Cup
4h 46m
Rogue vs Percival
Wardi Open
5h 46m
Monday Night Weeklies
9h 46m
Replay Cast
17h 46m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 4h
GSL
2 days
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
3 days
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs Rogue
IPSL
5 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.