• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 21:54
CET 03:54
KST 11:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion What happened to TvZ on Retro? Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2001 users

15 OC vs 16 OC - Page 4

Blogs > darthcaesar
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
narkissos
Profile Joined December 2011
198 Posts
December 31 2011 14:08 GMT
#61
Thank you Sir
NicoakaD
Profile Joined December 2011
Argentina25 Posts
December 31 2011 15:40 GMT
#62
What league u are? If ur not High master, stop being worried about this kind of stuff and improve your macro.
Follow me in twitter! www.twitter.com/NicoakaD
MangoNinja
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada13 Posts
December 31 2011 15:45 GMT
#63
Thank you for the stats ! was wondering when someone going to do this !
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
December 31 2011 16:13 GMT
#64
thanks for doing the math
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
DoubleRobo
Profile Joined April 2011
United States7 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:24:36
December 31 2011 16:24 GMT
#65
really well written, thanks for the info. this kind of theory crafting is what will make the early game airtight in years

edit: it gave me a stupid clown face for my smiley, i took it out
all the way
tappi
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:45:47
December 31 2011 16:43 GMT
#66
On January 01 2012 00:40 NicoakaD wrote:
What league u are? If ur not High master, stop being worried about this kind of stuff and improve your macro.


This is a very easily implemented build order fix, anyone of any skill level can improve themselves with this without any training time.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Kwon
Profile Joined March 2011
Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
December 31 2011 16:45 GMT
#67
I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16.
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:48:19
December 31 2011 16:46 GMT
#68
On December 31 2011 20:30 Thorzain wrote:
If you do the 15 OC, the extra minerals you get from that tiny bit earlier mule often gets you a faster expansion, which makes up for the lost scv production because you can produce 2 scvs at a time a bit earlier than with 16 OC. From my personal tests 16 OC catches up to 15 OC somewhere in the middle of the 5th minute (around 4:30 +- 10 seconds). So if you plan on expanding earlier than that I would suggest a 15 OC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


I had only originally considered this in light of adding on rax for an allin, haha, but this is just as true and the faster double SCV production makes another small difference.


On January 01 2012 01:45 Kwon wrote:
I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16.


Well, it depends on when you build the marine, but most people called it 15 OC afaik. Some people pointed out that the "16 OC" variation is actually 17 OC because of the marine, which is true, but I've heard it called 16 OC most often so I stuck to that.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
zyce
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States649 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 16:49:15
December 31 2011 16:48 GMT
#69
I don't find this to be conclusive due to the poor build-order choices made immediately after the OC, which throws such statistically marginal differences out the window until a proper test can be done.

(If curious, I'm referring to building rax/2nd depot with the same scv, as well as not optimizing mining)
Beauty is not the goal of competitive sports, but high-level sports are a prime venue for the expression of human beauty. The relation is roughly that of courage to war.
Kwon
Profile Joined March 2011
Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 17:12:05
December 31 2011 17:10 GMT
#70
On January 01 2012 01:46 darthcaesar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2012 01:45 Kwon wrote:
I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16.


Well, it depends on when you build the marine, but most people called it 15 OC afaik. Some people pointed out that the "16 OC" variation is actually 17 OC because of the marine, which is true, but I've heard it called 16 OC most often so I stuck to that.


Oh, its like that. Thanks for clearing that up!
llKenZyll
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States853 Posts
December 31 2011 17:24 GMT
#71
On December 31 2011 13:39 Shalaiyn wrote:
What about 13 barracks 16 OC?

No reason not to make a 12 rax because it doesn't cut workers or anything.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nd6nd/tang_in_his_natural_habitat/
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
December 31 2011 20:31 GMT
#72
I updated the OP with some more info!
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 23:22:58
December 31 2011 23:21 GMT
#73
On December 31 2011 17:50 Mowr wrote:
Nicely done! Just a thought though on supply timings for various builds. I have to test this but say you go 2rax with reactor after the first marine. Here the second supply depot is built after the second barracks and you just barely don't get supply blocket at 19. With an extra SCV I think you do, but again, this needs testing.


It's unclear unless you do some tests yourself. If you 15 OC, the 16 OC guy gets that extra SCV while the 15 OC guy is offline, but after the 15 OC is done, the 15 OC guy is building an SCV while the 16OC guy's CC is offline. Seems like the two builds will more or less converge. I'll have to test reactor/tech 2 rax, but my intuition says that it's unaffected

On January 01 2012 02:24 Lebzetu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2011 13:39 Shalaiyn wrote:
What about 13 barracks 16 OC?

No reason not to make a 12 rax because it doesn't cut workers or anything.


The SCV building the rax gets an extra trip, so 13 rax should be VERY SLIGHTLY richer. If you played TvP in BW, it's similar to how people wait til 250 min and get gas/rax at the same time. The SCVs mine a few more trips, and you don't need the rax so early anyway so they might as well be an extra 24 or so minerals richer
Trucy Wright is hot
hyperknight
Profile Joined May 2011
294 Posts
January 01 2012 07:11 GMT
#74
Wow! well done man. Looks like OC at 16 is the way to go! Thanks for results =)
"you 6poll?" - aLive to IdrA on NASL Sunday Showmatch, Feb 2012
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
January 02 2012 13:30 GMT
#75
I even did 16 oc before the patch lol because you get 1 more scv for gas on tech heavy builds.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
January 02 2012 17:15 GMT
#76
On December 31 2011 20:30 Thorzain wrote:
If you do the 15 OC, the extra minerals you get from that tiny bit earlier mule often gets you a faster expansion, which makes up for the lost scv production because you can produce 2 scvs at a time a bit earlier than with 16 OC. From my personal tests 16 OC catches up to 15 OC somewhere in the middle of the 5th minute (around 4:30 +- 10 seconds). So if you plan on expanding earlier than that I would suggest a 15 OC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


If you want to be greedy you can do a 16OC, build one marine, land your expo, supply and start scv/marine production. Bomber does that when he 1rax FE in TvT, it just cuts half a marine if I remember correctly. He scouts after the rax, but anyway scouting in tvt on a map with more than one spot for the opponent, I don't see many good player (0?) doing it atm.
Zest fanboy.
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
January 03 2012 07:28 GMT
#77
On January 02 2012 22:30 4Servy wrote:
I even did 16 oc before the patch lol because you get 1 more scv for gas on tech heavy builds.


You should only have 3 SCVs on gas, lol. The only thing you'd get pre-patch is an extra SCV on minerals. And that's not worth it because you could instead get faster MULEs. But those times are now in the past. Good times.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Psilo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States115 Posts
January 21 2012 04:46 GMT
#78
Thank you so much.
xJaCEx
Profile Joined August 2010
155 Posts
February 05 2012 05:47 GMT
#79
The reason I like the 16 opening is because when you do the delayed orbital your likely to be dealing with scouting issues so all you have to worry about is turning the command center into an orbital when the scv is done. The other way if your scout is getting attacked or a probe is bugging you its possible you'll be even more delayed on upgrading the orbital as you have to watch for when the rax gets done. I just feel 15 opener has more room for errors so I try to avoid it however I find myself sometimes doing it just because I expect to be able to build the oc right away from doing it the old way for so long.

Here's one I'd like to see answered with colorful graphs how much do you gain from taking a slightly delayed gas
I already know from my own recent testing that it's a large amount because of a snowball effect from something that happens so early on. Amazing what keeping 3.5 extra workers on minerals for a few seconds can do for your econ. That to me suggest that the extra minerals in your example could end up making a larger difference then your graphs suggest.
First blood is as good as anything.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Vindicta 134
NeuroSwarm 129
RuFF_SC2 123
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 915
NaDa 60
Sexy 48
Larva 27
Bale 9
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever254
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1678
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0290
Other Games
summit1g15180
gofns5068
JimRising 453
shahzam356
ViBE151
Maynarde112
Models4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick758
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 67
• Sammyuel 50
• davetesta31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21650
Other Games
• Scarra637
• Shiphtur101
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
7h 7m
RSL Revival
7h 7m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
9h 7m
Cure vs Reynor
Classic vs herO
IPSL
14h 7m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
16h 7m
BSL 21
17h 7m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
1d 9h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 9h
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
1d 17h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 17h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.