EPT15 OC vs 16 OC - Page 4
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narkissos
198 Posts
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NicoakaD
Argentina25 Posts
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MangoNinja
Canada13 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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DoubleRobo
United States7 Posts
edit: it gave me a stupid clown face for my smiley, i took it out | ||
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tappi
Finland4 Posts
On January 01 2012 00:40 NicoakaD wrote: What league u are? If ur not High master, stop being worried about this kind of stuff and improve your macro. This is a very easily implemented build order fix, anyone of any skill level can improve themselves with this without any training time. | ||
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Kwon
Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
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darthcaesar
United States475 Posts
On December 31 2011 20:30 Thorzain wrote: If you do the 15 OC, the extra minerals you get from that tiny bit earlier mule often gets you a faster expansion, which makes up for the lost scv production because you can produce 2 scvs at a time a bit earlier than with 16 OC. From my personal tests 16 OC catches up to 15 OC somewhere in the middle of the 5th minute (around 4:30 +- 10 seconds). So if you plan on expanding earlier than that I would suggest a 15 OC. Correct me if I'm wrong. I had only originally considered this in light of adding on rax for an allin, haha, but this is just as true and the faster double SCV production makes another small difference. On January 01 2012 01:45 Kwon wrote: I actually did not know you build the OC at 15 before. Always thought it was 16. Well, it depends on when you build the marine, but most people called it 15 OC afaik. Some people pointed out that the "16 OC" variation is actually 17 OC because of the marine, which is true, but I've heard it called 16 OC most often so I stuck to that. | ||
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zyce
United States649 Posts
(If curious, I'm referring to building rax/2nd depot with the same scv, as well as not optimizing mining) | ||
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Kwon
Brunei Darussalam41 Posts
On January 01 2012 01:46 darthcaesar wrote: Well, it depends on when you build the marine, but most people called it 15 OC afaik. Some people pointed out that the "16 OC" variation is actually 17 OC because of the marine, which is true, but I've heard it called 16 OC most often so I stuck to that. Oh, its like that. Thanks for clearing that up! | ||
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
On December 31 2011 13:39 Shalaiyn wrote: What about 13 barracks 16 OC? No reason not to make a 12 rax because it doesn't cut workers or anything. | ||
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darthcaesar
United States475 Posts
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
On December 31 2011 17:50 Mowr wrote: Nicely done! Just a thought though on supply timings for various builds. I have to test this but say you go 2rax with reactor after the first marine. Here the second supply depot is built after the second barracks and you just barely don't get supply blocket at 19. With an extra SCV I think you do, but again, this needs testing. It's unclear unless you do some tests yourself. If you 15 OC, the 16 OC guy gets that extra SCV while the 15 OC guy is offline, but after the 15 OC is done, the 15 OC guy is building an SCV while the 16OC guy's CC is offline. Seems like the two builds will more or less converge. I'll have to test reactor/tech 2 rax, but my intuition says that it's unaffected On January 01 2012 02:24 Lebzetu wrote: No reason not to make a 12 rax because it doesn't cut workers or anything. The SCV building the rax gets an extra trip, so 13 rax should be VERY SLIGHTLY richer. If you played TvP in BW, it's similar to how people wait til 250 min and get gas/rax at the same time. The SCVs mine a few more trips, and you don't need the rax so early anyway so they might as well be an extra 24 or so minerals richer | ||
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hyperknight
294 Posts
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On December 31 2011 20:30 Thorzain wrote: If you do the 15 OC, the extra minerals you get from that tiny bit earlier mule often gets you a faster expansion, which makes up for the lost scv production because you can produce 2 scvs at a time a bit earlier than with 16 OC. From my personal tests 16 OC catches up to 15 OC somewhere in the middle of the 5th minute (around 4:30 +- 10 seconds). So if you plan on expanding earlier than that I would suggest a 15 OC. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to be greedy you can do a 16OC, build one marine, land your expo, supply and start scv/marine production. Bomber does that when he 1rax FE in TvT, it just cuts half a marine if I remember correctly. He scouts after the rax, but anyway scouting in tvt on a map with more than one spot for the opponent, I don't see many good player (0?) doing it atm. | ||
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darthcaesar
United States475 Posts
On January 02 2012 22:30 4Servy wrote: I even did 16 oc before the patch lol because you get 1 more scv for gas on tech heavy builds. You should only have 3 SCVs on gas, lol. The only thing you'd get pre-patch is an extra SCV on minerals. And that's not worth it because you could instead get faster MULEs. But those times are now in the past. Good times. | ||
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Psilo
United States115 Posts
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xJaCEx
155 Posts
Here's one I'd like to see answered with colorful graphs how much do you gain from taking a slightly delayed gas I already know from my own recent testing that it's a large amount because of a snowball effect from something that happens so early on. Amazing what keeping 3.5 extra workers on minerals for a few seconds can do for your econ. That to me suggest that the extra minerals in your example could end up making a larger difference then your graphs suggest. | ||
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