|
************************GSL SPOILERS, DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED BLIZZARD CUP GROUP B ******************
Not sure how this will go down, this is going to be kind of an impulse writeup on one individual's take on the Naniwa situation which has everybody in a huge furor.
I'm not going to argue that what Naniwa did was unprofessional. He was invited to play in what was basically THE event of 2011. 10 star-studded players, highly coveted spots which any player would have wanted. He then proceeded to probe rush on Antiga Shipyard, a 'build' which I doubt beats ANYTHING in the game (unless Nestea somehow forgot how to use a computer), essentially throwing away the game. He deprived the viewers of a potentially amazing show, and let down the casters/producers/other players which would have happily played the game out till the end. All this displays a basic lack of consideration for everyone involved with the event, and if GOM chooses to punish him for it, they would be completely within their rights.
And yet, I ask you to consider this from Naniwa's point of view. He'd just gone 0-2 in his group, then NARROWLY lost a game against MMA (I'm maintaining that if he didn't get supply blocked he would have taken that after sniping the first two thors). I don't know if he was guaranteed knocked out before he played against MMA, but I don't think he would have been thinking about that. Naniwa strikes me as the player who simply would have persistently dogged through that game, no matter what. Regardless, can you imagine that feeling of having victory snatched out of your grip at the last minute? Just remember, this is THE event of 2011, 10 highly achieved players, the victor of which will have eternal fame and glory (at least amongst us nerds  ). Sure, everyone's lost games before, but think about the magnitude of this defeat. You were THIS close to having a chance to continue on the path to win $40,000, as well as plausibly being able to take the title of champion of 2011, and it's all taken away in the blink of an eye. Again, I don't know Naniwa, so this is all speculation, but he strikes me as an honest, instinctive player who is as human as the rest of us. Can YOU imagine being told that, even though you've just had your dream crushed, you now have to go back on stage, and play another match which - for you personally - is completely meaningless?
To reiterate my point at the beginning, I in no way condone what Naniwa did. However, I want you to think of how much harm he actually did, as well as his intentions. Yes, he deprived the viewers of an outstanding show, insulted the other players who could have had his position, and insulted the producers who invited him to play in their tournament. However, no one's been physically hurt by this event. He hasn't murdered anyone, hasn't committed any fraud (that we know of as of yet), hasn't intentionally gone up and tried to ruin anyone's experience. He has simply been human, in a time when all eyes were on him.
So what is the conclusion of this little writeup? Dunno really... I guess all I'm asking is that everyone take a step back, think about the situation from everyone's point of view, and then think if their hate is really worth uttering. Once again, Nani's actions were certainly unprofessional, and could possibly have all sorts of ramifications against him from GOM/his team/the universe. However, let's please, as a community, not turn this into a mob lynching against a man who had a dream snatched away from him.
TL:DR Naniwa was unprofessional, but we don't need to murder him 
Edit: Looks like someone had the same opinion as me after all <3 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=294342
 
|
Posts like these restore my faith in humanity's capability to heal itself and grow up. Yes, the general populace hates too much. Yes, there needs to be less hate. But there also needs to be less hate of everyone, not just Naniwa, not just Destiny for streaming anything but SC2, etc. Our practice of non-hate needs to include people like crackheads who steal cars and break into your house to steal your mom's grandma's jewelry to pawn and buy crack. Hate is 99% the wrong action to take. It leads to suffering, as Yoda puts it.
Yes, I'm one of those people who didn't cheer the murder of Osama bin Laden. Do I think he was a questionable person? Yes. Just because we refuse to hate doesn't mean we have to like someone, though.
|
we don't need to murder him but we can hate him, and he deserves it. Think about alot of players that are better than him, or at least have a better attitude, could have replaced Naniwa instead if Gom didn't bother to let one spot for the foreginer tournaments. What Naniwa did can be compared to pissing on GOM and alot of players.
|
what they decide to do is what makes the difference between a professional and an amateur. he acted like an amateur today. that is the reason everyone is mad.
|
He wasnt close at all, thats just an opinion. But it is true that people who have no professional experience should quiet their harsh tongues. His actions might have serious consequences though.
|
I agree that people hate way to much. They claim that Naniwa is the reason this sport wont evolve but what they dont realise is that the fans behaving like kids is hurting e--sports way more than Naniwa ever will. People need to sit back in their sofa and relax. That includes people like me that gets upset over the way these idiots act. 
|
hp.Shell: Yeah, didn't really wanna mention that part, but the whole "Do we hate too much" sort of applies far more strongly in everyday life for me :/ Is ok, so long as we all do the best we can day by day, that's as much as one can do .
FinestHour: Yessir, that was another point I guess I wanted to make. On the internet, any random Joe (myself included) can say "Oh, Naniwa's disgraceful, Naniwa should burn in hell for killing eSPORTS", but in reality, what do we really know? Now on the other hand, Liquid'Nazgul voiced a fairly outraged opinion in the LR thread. Do I think he's wrong/to express such hate? Yes. Do I think I, as a random Joe, have the experience to refute him, the owner and manager of a professional esports team? Hell fucking no. Sometimes, the opinions of the less educated are actually better left unuttered :/
|
On December 13 2011 22:37 heha wrote:hp.Shell: Yeah, didn't really wanna mention that part, but the whole "Do we hate too much" sort of applies far more strongly in everyday life for me :/ Is ok, so long as we all do the best we can day by day, that's as much as one can do . FinestHour: Yessir, that was another point I guess I wanted to make. On the internet, any random Joe (myself included) can say "Oh, Naniwa's disgraceful, Naniwa should burn in hell for killing eSPORTS", but in reality, what do we really know? Now on the other hand, Liquid'Nazgul voiced a fairly outraged opinion in the LR thread. Do I think he's wrong/to express such hate? Yes. Do I think I, as a random Joe, have the experience to refute him, the owner and manager of a professional esports team? Hell fucking no. Sometimes, the opinions of the less educated are actually better left unuttered :/
Yeah, the :/ emotion is the best course of action in this scenario, and any supposedly "deserving" of hate. Good job. Though I will say I'm glad he isn't from the US.
|
I certainly don't hate Naniwa or wish him anything bad, but what he did was maybe a bit more than you can get away with.
I fear that this will have some quite negative consequences for him. In Korea, behaviour like that is not what people
expect from a progamer.
We will see what happens, but what he did was very stupid. Not because he harmed the viewers, but because he harmed himself :/
|
Yes, we hate way too much, way too casually because it's just the internet, we can say whatever we want about that guy that once cheesed one of our favorite players. He did something that was (in my judgment) wrong? He's clearly a terrible person and a disgrace to my sport, country, etc.
Anyways, yeah -- I don't expect that tonight will win Naniwa any fans (which is too bad, because he was putting up a good fight, but like Stephano just didn't have enough to get out of an insane group), but some of the comments about him have just been ridiculous.
|
On December 13 2011 22:54 Cri du Chat wrote:
I certainly don't hate Naniwa or wish him anything bad, but what he did was maybe a bit more than you can get away with.
I fear that this will have some quite negative consequences for him. In Korea, behaviour like that is not what people
expect from a progamer.
We will see what happens, but what he did was very stupid. Not because he harmed the viewers, but because he harmed himself :/
My sentiments exactly.
I don't think hate is a very tasteful approach to what it is a tragedy. More than likely he can't help himself and maybe he will beat himself up with it when he leaves the booth.
Hopefully it is an impulse for change and I hope QxG can make him a better player and I hope his friends in Korea will help him out after this incident.
He needs both support and rules obey.
|
I think the sentiment that the "community is hateful" comes greatly from the fact that the community is so freaking huge now. It has different people with different standards and principles, and no matter what anyone does outside of just playing the game, there will be a ton of people who will consider it to be the worst thing ever.
In the Naniwa case I am not impressed by his actions today, but I still support him against some arguments (the business side, contracts, players being entertainers etc) because those arguments are something that I profoundly disagree with and because I will (almost) always support a player over any kind of organization, not because I'm much of a Nani fan to begin with.
On the other hand, I myself give a ton of flak to EG (as an organization), Complexity, SK etc. because they are the kind of organizations that function in a way that goes against everything I respect and love in the Starcraft community, and as such many of their actions really bother me and prompt a reply from me every time there's some huge drama that's slammed right into my face by a million posts on the topic. As much as I would like to ignore that side of the SC2 community, it's really a hard thing to do.
Ultimately, people will care deeply about some issues, and there are many issues where people on both sides of it will care deeply about. Other than completely shutting down the forums, there is no way around it.
|
I think there's a human tendency to make ourselves feel or look better by condemning mistakes others make harshly. I suspect most of us have done it at least once, even if unintentionally. Some people do it blatantly and with malice (IMO we've seen some of that during the Incontrol-GSL drama) but more often it's just human nature.
|
If this was the first time naniwa ever did anything totally retarded I'd understand. Naniwa disrespected everyone who wanted to watch a good match that DID have meaning to the fans. I'm not gonna respect a guy who doesn't respect everyone else and only cares for himself.
|
i disagree. naniwa schould be banned from gsl as an example, what a disgrace his behavior is to all of sc2 progaming. if he did it in a 100€ cup where no one is watching i dont really care but he disappoints tons of viewers, and probably upset GOM as well. btw banned as in 1 or 2 seasons not forever
E: hate where hate is due
|
|
|
On December 13 2011 22:27 hp.Shell wrote:
Posts like these restore my faith in humanity's capability to heal itself and grow up. Yes, the general populace hates too much. Yes, there needs to be less hate. But there also needs to be less hate of everyone, not just Naniwa, not just Destiny for streaming anything but SC2, etc. Our practice of non-hate needs to include people like crackheads who steal cars and break into your house to steal your mom's grandma's jewelry to pawn and buy crack. Hate is 99% the wrong action to take. It leads to suffering, as Yoda puts it.
Yes, I'm one of those people who didn't cheer the murder of Osama bin Laden. Do I think he was a questionable person? Yes. Just because we refuse to hate doesn't mean we have to like someone, though.
Just on the topic of Osama's death, it is really strange that people thought negatively of me for pointing out that Osama wasn't given the human right of a fair trial, which is international law
|
This whole Naniwa thing, is completely overrated :/ So yeah, I defently think we have too much.
|
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
I just wish Naniwa had never pulled this sort of stunt...... now we got 10+ threads going on talking about it and 1000+ ppl all flaming one another....
asdkfajsdkl;fjaskl;djfkalsjdfk;jasdfjasdf poor TL.....
|
I don't know where all the anti Naniwa hate is coming from - to be honest, he just gained me as a true fan! He plays the game with a lot of emotion, which is awesome. I love players like him and MKP. Anyone who puts their emotions on the line in e-sports gains my respect. Besides, I'd never seen a probe rush in the GSL before - that's just awesome!
|
On December 13 2011 22:27 brachester wrote:
we don't need to murder him but we can hate him, and he deserves it.
I lol'd
this is the reasons I can't be bothered to follow sc2 anymore, when the community sucks it's not fun
|
So much Naniwa today. Whew. Poor guy
|
he should be banned from the GSL
|
On December 14 2011 00:07 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:27 brachester wrote:
we don't need to murder him but we can hate him, and he deserves it. I lol'd this is the reasons I can't be bothered to follow sc2 anymore, when the community sucks it's not fun
I'm glad important figures in the community like Tyler and IdrA balanced it out, maybe just a little bit with their input.
|
I'm just speaking out of my ass but shouldn't pro's love the game. Naniwa in an interview once said "All i do is think about Starcraft" shouldn't it be enough then to just play the game against high level opponents and enjoy yourself? Even if the game has no useful outcome for Naniwa. But thats just my opinion.
|
On December 13 2011 23:39 Seeker wrote:
I just wish Naniwa had never pulled this sort of stunt...... now we got 10+ threads going on talking about it and 1000+ ppl all flaming one another....
asdkfajsdkl;fjaskl;djfkalsjdfk;jasdfjasdf poor TL.....
Didn't help that nazgul laid into him, as well as no specific warning to the top of the Group B thread to stop player bashing. Opened the floodgates for lot's of shit and not enough mods acting to do anything about it. So much for players come first. It suddenly turned into respect for viewers comes first.
It's kind of amusing to see how TL posters go from hating on entitled spectators when complaining about people who caster bash and tourney bash to suddenly, oh it's ok to feel entitled that the players should play their best to entertain in a dead rubber match, let's crucify one of the players.
On December 13 2011 23:15 Talin wrote:
Ultimately, people will care deeply about some issues, and there are many issues where people on both sides of it will care deeply about. Other than completely shutting down the forums, there is no way around it.
How many of the random posters that come into threads with one liners saying he should be banned or jump onto the "disrespect" bandwagon do actually care deeply though? Are they there to uphold some deep held belief or are they just posting to stir things up or add an extra post to the shit storm for the sake of it?
|
It's definitely easier to hate and trash someone (presumably) anonymously on the internet than in person. I'm not an exception, I'm far more capable of 'hating more' here than in person. Even that being said, I don't think I would have been to hide my disappointment if I attended the event. He justified his actions, in his point of view, through the interview - but I don't think he showed enough consideration for all others involved in the game, including the opponent, fans, production, sponsors, etc.
|
There is a difference for calling a player out on what he did and hating him.
I think Naniwa made a mistake here, as I expect more of players involved in ESPORTS.That doesnt mean i'll hate him forever and want im away from the scene at all. Naniwa is and remains one of the strongest foreign protoss, and he deserves respect for that.
TeamLiquid should chill, Naniwa should excuse himself ( which he kinda did in the hot_bid interview), and we should move on.
|
I don't really care. It's his loss. Keep watching rest of games. End of story.
|
On December 13 2011 23:36 CharlieBrownsc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:27 hp.Shell wrote:
Posts like these restore my faith in humanity's capability to heal itself and grow up. Yes, the general populace hates too much. Yes, there needs to be less hate. But there also needs to be less hate of everyone, not just Naniwa, not just Destiny for streaming anything but SC2, etc. Our practice of non-hate needs to include people like crackheads who steal cars and break into your house to steal your mom's grandma's jewelry to pawn and buy crack. Hate is 99% the wrong action to take. It leads to suffering, as Yoda puts it.
Yes, I'm one of those people who didn't cheer the murder of Osama bin Laden. Do I think he was a questionable person? Yes. Just because we refuse to hate doesn't mean we have to like someone, though. Just on the topic of Osama's death, it is really strange that people thought negatively of me for pointing out that Osama wasn't given the human right of a fair trial, which is international law
Well, the comparison between a kid dropping a game of Starcraft because he's pissed off he lost and the American sending illegally their Terminator to Chuck Norris a guy that is the major figure of international terrorism is a bit bold in my opinion. I probably agree with you on both issues, but I'm struggling to find the comparison relevant.
|
I feel a bit out of place here, but personally I thought the probe-rush was hilarious! Then I see people getting all angry. Honestly, why do we take this so seriously?
I feel the need to quote Total Biscuit here:
"Guys, [we] watch a game with giant tanks, fat floating space octopus and the machines from War of the Worlds, [we're] already occupying an entire universe of cheesy nonsense, embrace it."
Shenanigans = awesome
|
AT FIRST:
"naniwa vs nestea, this is gonna be epic"
THEN:
"aaaw... that's quick...didn't expect that gonna happen. Oh well, let's move to the next game..."
|
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
On December 14 2011 05:24 BluePotion wrote:
AT FIRST:
"naniwa vs nestea, this is gonna be epic"
THEN:
"aaaw... that's quick...didn't expect that gonna happen. Oh well, let's move to the next game..."
If only had that second response occurred for everyone :/
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
