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Ok, it has been coming more prominent recently, but this problem has always been there but It seems that sc2 fans are major trolls. You can go into any stream chat (except NASL where you have to pay to talk) and it will be full of rage, ignorance, political arguments, name calling, threats, etc.
I was watching IEM yesterday, Jinro beat Idra with a bunker rush, for the next 5-10 minutes the chat was full of "Jinro a fag", "Terran fag race" "press 1 is terran is master fag race" I went to comment on Strelok's macro for the next game but my message was buried in a moment by a political argument where someone was saying (real quote) "USA trades $4 trillion and 50,000 lives for 2 sand niggers" Its outrageous the extent of these trolls. sayings like "go kill yourself" mean nothing anymore, I barley even notice them anymore.
More stories, Some dude in GOM chat repeatedly says every morning that Moletrap raped a Korean in 1991, and if anyone asks him to shut up he tells them to "get off moletraps dick" Also in that chat, there is a dude named "EGincholesteral" he devotes himself for talking about how fat Incontol is. I know its retarded and I could just leave the chat but its sad how a few stupid peopple can ruin an experience for the rest.
Now to regular sports, your at the football game, imagine if like thousands of people at the stadium just started shouting "(insert athlete here) is a fag!!!" "Yell 1 if (athlete) is a fag" It would never happen.
I was trying to introduce some of my friends to the esports scene and they were just utterly appalled by the chats on the tournament, they are every little about the actual current matches and much more about who is a fag, political arguments, racism, and general douchebagness.
Point being, stupid anonymous fans give the scene a bad rep, and remove a lot of enjoyment from those who actually want to enjoy come conversation about the games they are watching.
/endrage
  
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Wow I was thinking the same thing when watching the WhiteRa vs. Destiny game. Everything was "Protoss Op, protoss fags, destiny/whitera fags, if you like x you suck, if you play y race you suck, fuck blizzard, sc2 is for losers, etc"
And I thought wow, this isn't as bad as most chats. It's pretty sad how bad they are, it feels like 90% of them have a sub-bronze knowledge of the game, nonexistent knowledge of players, and are less than 12 years old with IQs less than 70.
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You realize over the years sports fans have been worse. People get drunk and beat people to death for loving another team. You can sit here and say that SC2 fans are worse, but you have to look at the whole picture. They are sitting behind a computer and would NEVER EVER say that at a live event. That is the only reason why it happens.
Sports fans are a lot crazier than sc2 fans. I'm not saying that it's not a bad thing. I completely agree with you. But you can't compare that some of the horrers that have happened in the past with sports fans. Plus people do shout at games that athletes are dumbasses, fags, etc. A few voices won't be heard over the thousands of others though.
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10387 Posts
If real sports fans were to chat anonymously while watching a game they'd be just as bad, if not worse.
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You are comparing the internet to a live sporting event, and that is why your argument fails.
If you've ever watched the stream of a regular sport that happened to have chat you'd see how it can be just as bad.
And while I have never been to a gaming event live, I don't doubt that fans at live events act much differently.
The problem is with the internet in general, and unfortunately that has greater impact on e-sports than regular sports.
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Soccer has hooligans fighting each other and this oftentimes require police to be present. Sometimes it´s so bad that matches have to be stopped. Those people care less about the sport itsself than about the raging and shouting. A lot of famous soccer players were heavily insulted during matches. Oliver Kahn had repeatedly been thrown banana peels at him. A lot of black players are insulted with racist chantings during games. It´s like some people are, welcome to reality ;(
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Sounds like somebodies never seen a good old fashioned football riot. The anonymity is the key here, put football fans in a completely anonymous setting and ask them to communicate and you'd see the hatred spew forth more openly. In real sports the hatred is pressed down due to social graces and so on, normally.
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You should probably know that stream chats, in almost all occasions, are filled with absolute trash.
And sports fans do that all the time, one of the favorite cheers at my local soccer stadium is "You suck, asshole" every time the opposing team's goalkeeper does anything.
That's just America, people have died over soccer games in Europe.
People mindlessly insulting anything and everything in worthless chats really isn't much of a big deal.
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I completely agree with you.
The main difference between ESPORTS and real sports is that these cowards irl just troll behind their computer screen. I bet you they wouldn't have the balls to say anything like that in real life. they're just lifeless cowards who thrive on making peoples' life worse, probably because they are pathetic excuses of a person in real life.
This, in my opinion, is the major thing holding back ESPORTS at the moment, and why many sponsors/companies/non-esports people would not be involved in ESPORTS.
It's a sad part of our wonderful community, but hopefully we can overcome this together.
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Clearly you haven't been to an actual professional sporting event in a while. Until somebody gets stabbed or beaten up for cheering the wrong player at an MLG nothing will be worse than the buffoonery that happens in "real" sports. Every single baseball game I've been to had someone getting tossed out of the ballpark for starting a fistfight or some other nonesense. Then there's the cowardly taunting and cussing out of athletes for the heinous sin of playing for the opposing team. This sort of behavior (and ridiculous ticket prices) is the reason why I stayed at home this season and watched the games on my TV.
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Go to a live event and being in the stands resembles being in the stands of a live sports match.
Go on the internet and on IRC to talk about an esports match, and it resembles being on the internet and on IRC arguing about unrelated shit and shit talking the other team and their players.
How many times do you think Boston Red Sox fans have called Arod or Jeter a flaming homosexual.
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its because the internet is anonymous. in real life, anyone doing that would be escorted out of the stadium, or at the least, their faces would be known.
edit 1: also, there was the yankees fan who served eric bedard divorce papers on the day of his start. i think thats worse than anything else any esports fan has ever did.
edit 2: also brian stow.
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Go see Yahoo! Sports. They're pretty much as bad as this.
Dilution of any demographic via popular appeal does this.
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Now to regular sports, your at the football game, imagine if like thousands of people at the stadium just started shouting "(insert athlete here) is a fag!!!" "Yell 1 if (athlete) is a fag" It would never happen.
With Dutch Football/Soccer it is quite common for "supporters" to chant what you described above.
It's a disgrace but it happens. Sometimes matches get paused until the chants stop, but that happens rarely. Even the Referees get targeted.
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On October 03 2011 13:42 ArvickHero wrote:
If real sports fans were to chat anonymously while watching a game they'd be just as bad, if not worse.
Indeed. I've seen Michael Vick described as an "n-word" quite a few times in IRC [Edit: not TL IRC].
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Sooooo you've never been to a live sporting event, or read comments on a sports site, or read the comments on streams of live sports, eh?? Because there's plenty of that, both in anonymous forums and streams and in persons. Go sit with the bleacher creatures at any game. There's a reason you avoid going back there with little kids.
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Age of the fans have a LOT to do the issue.
A bunch of 50 year olds might swear and rage along the lines of, "wtf I hope xxx dies he's fucking shit."
Whereas, a bunch of 15 year olds rage like the way described in OP, "dick, fags, sand niggers, etc."
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Even though I've never been to a big e-sports live event, I'm actually pretty certain that SC fans will actually be really polite towards one another.
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I must be unique in the fact I never have chat open while watching a stream. I just don't see how it is worthwhile to have chat open at a large event.
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On October 03 2011 13:42 ArvickHero wrote:
If real sports fans were to chat anonymously while watching a game they'd be just as bad, if not worse.
I have to agree with this. It has nothing to do with eSports, it's just what happens when people can say what they want without repercussions.
You will see this creep up in forums everywhere, the worse the moderation is, the worse this type of behavior gets. Live chats look so bad because people can get an immediate reaction, and the mods (if any) has a hard time keeping up and banning the offenders.
I never watch live chats on streams. I have mostly stopped reading comments on news sites as well (most Swedish news sites have this feature, it almost completely consists of trolling that is "civilized" enough not to get deleted for profanity and random knee-jerk reactions by people who don't think about what they read. Discussion seems to be almost non-existent).
It's sad that it has to be that way, but the only thing that can be done to stop it is to have a lot of moderators that work hard to clean it up, and people willing to do that, who will be fair and professional about it, are hard to find.
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It's not about SC2 fans acting like how 'real-sport' fans would be acting - its the fact that they are BM at all. SC was always a community about manner, something that set it apart from other gaming communities. It's sad to see it degrade now that SC2 has become mainstream and full of 14 year-old kids with 0 respect towards progamers. Back when I was watching BW, I thought the world of foreign pros despite their skill in comparison to koreans. I knew and understood how difficult it was to obtain rank as low as C or C+ on iccup and knowing that most pros, even foreigners were A level led to me having a lot of respect for these players. Unfortunately any joker can get to diamond / master level in SC2 and all of a sudden they think they can go pro if only they played 'a little bit more'.
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On October 03 2011 23:24 Xyik wrote:
It's not about SC2 fans acting like how 'real-sport' fans would be acting - its the fact that they are BM at all. SC was always a community about manner, something that set it apart from other gaming communities.
What kind of SC were you playing????
bm was notorious on USE, but present everywhere.
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1/5 for the worst train wreck of a point i've seen being made in months.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
The worst thing I have seen SC2 fans doing so far is Boo-ing the Halo/LoL champions(forgot which game it was specifically) off stage.
Thats about it.
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The thing is that in any community of a large enough size there is going to be a portion of the population that is simply going to draw negative attention to themselves. For whatever reason that's just the way things are. I would argue that these people are a distinct minority within virtually any community (especially the SC2 community which on the whole I have found to be full of excellent people). The problem lies in the fact that many of the worst offenders are also the most vocal. That means that they are, It's much easier to jump up and scream, "x is OP," "fuck so and so," "you disagree with me, fag." Than it is to have a reasoned argument. It'd be nice if a lot of these people just shut the hell up but I think at least we can take solace in the fact that the vast majority of the community is actually rather nice and supportive.
Also, lets be honest, real sports fans have, do and always will act in what is often an even more abhorrent manner. Both Baseball and Football were almost banned at the turn of the 20th century for the endemic rowdyism and the fact that they were perceived to be a haven for the worst elements in society.
Take a look at a few of these:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-francisco-giants-fan-bryan-stow-coma-attacked/story?id=13298349
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Cent_Beer_Night
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/sports/baseball/05disco.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/22/fans-fight-49ers-raiders-ravens_n_932795.html
There's hundreds more, these are just a few I pulled up off the top of my head.
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I have to admit, I gnerally only answer technical/game related questions in big chat's these days because I got so sick of the kind of people mentioned in the OP. I much prefer Total Biscuits subscriber mode chat not because I think those with money should get special privaleges (I don't) but simply because the quality of the conversations and game spectatorship is so much higher and it's actually a more enjoyable experience.
Beyond making all chat's pay to use though, which I think *would* be a terrible idea and repeatedly banning the accounts of people not in chat to enjoy the game which would require a hell of a lot of moderation, I don't know of any solution and that makes me a little sad.
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Yes yes yes, More people statistically have died/been injured/been insulted at real sports events, but thats because there are like what up to 100,000 people there, imagine if all the 80,000 people watching the dreamhack or Nasl Finals were crammed into a stadium... every day... for like 50 years... Thats the comparison to just the sheer amount of people attending real sports events. If you get a couple thousand people at the mall during a sale, people are going to die, its just the nature of mobs. With hundreds of years head start, real sports has an unfathomable advantage amount of events and spectators, and thus more fatalities/injuries. But I'm saying IF esports got that popular, it seems like their fans are even more volatile than other sports fans. I personally have never been told to kill myself (over 100 times repeatedly) by someone supporting an opposing sports team.
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On October 04 2011 07:03 Luepert wrote:
Yes yes yes, More people statistically have died/been injured/been insulted at real sports events, but thats because there are like what up to 100,000 people there, imagine if all the 80,000 people watching the dreamhack or Nasl Finals were crammed into a stadium... every day... for like 50 years... Thats the comparison to just the sheer amount of people attending real sports events. If you get a couple thousand people at the mall during a sale, people are going to die, its just the nature of mobs. With hundreds of years head start, real sports has an unfathomable advantage amount of events and spectators, and thus more fatalities/injuries. But I'm saying IF esports got that popular, it seems like their fans are even more volatile than other sports fans. I personally have never been told to kill myself (over 100 times repeatedly) by someone supporting an opposing sports team.
The biggest difference is that, by and large in real sports any altercations take place in person.
It's easy as hell to shit-talk somebody from behind the anonymity of a computer hundreds of miles away, it's a great deal harder when you're face to face with somebody.
I think that it seems worse but if all of this was happening in sports arenas instead of at home there would be at most a similar level of problems with esports if not less. The troll effect just makes esports fans seem worse.
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As far as I know, SC2 has never directly caused any deaths or riots, so we've got that going for us. And people only act so outrageously bm because they're anonymous, I don't think people would ever act like that at an MLG/other large tournament event. If they do act like that in front of everyone then they truly have anger problems.
If you can't stand the trolls, don't have the stream chat open, or become a stream mod and throw the banhammer at them.
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Hey fella,
Have you ever read the live chat of a Penguins vs Flyers stream on Justin tv ?
It's noooot pretty.
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It's not ESports or Sports, some people are just stupid idiots, therefore they do stupid and idiotic things. Just don't let yourself be one and just enjoy the event
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Have you ever been to the forums of another sport? Like hfboards.com for hockey? It is a cesspool of retarded trolls.
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You never learned not to read the chat on livestreams and the like?
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Chats?
Oh god. Don't go in chats. Easy as that, those are just complete trolls that should be ignored. It is impossible to have a decent conversation or celebratory moment in chat, just spare yourself the headache.
The GOM forums are also thrash >,<, on the internet it's all about knowing where to go to get good discussion and conversation. TL is one of those places, most other places are not ^^;;
In real life trolls are just people. Even if somebody had a gigantic public flamewar on forums, when they meet IRL it's either awkward or it's "Oh. Well, we were stupid to argue I guess"
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I think insulting someone is pretty terrible, but still better than going to a fan ofX and punching him in the face because he is a fan of X, or doing worse things.
Or to put it in a more general phrase:
Fans will use whatever they have to express their anger, whether it be their bare hands or a chat.
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Heh.. Well, IMO they're ruining Esports chat rooms. Part of the fun is watching these games with a crowd across the word. And spamming Swastikas and general hateful bullshit really takes the fun out of it for me. At least the trolls are having fun I suppose... ~_~
I wish more people were quick on the "ignore" button, or more chats were okay with setting up 'no-name mods' (no offense, most mods seem to be cool cats in my book) to try to keep an eye on things for the general viewers.
Even though I don't think they have many mods on the Korean Esports Weekly, at least in the past I've noticed orb taking note of whats going on chat and generally getting everyone to settle down. TLO was also being a boss the other day in his Zotac cup run, I believe. Spammers, I hope you realize how pretty crap that stuff is and start to give it a rest at some point.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
In other "sports" it is the same thing
If you go to NFL website, people leave immature comments all the time. I notice these things because I'm checking on stats of games being played and sometimes scroll down to read some of the comments. In some of the forums or community sites, the "fans" of the sports are just racist. There's this tennis website I visit a lot and when Federer lost to Tsonga there was a lot of racist comments.
In live events, like football or basketball, it is really common to see people shouting stupid immature stuff; I do it a lot. In college, I knew lots of people going to the games drunk and just heckling the opposing teams. Fans do it at live professional football games too. I'm not sure about other sports, since I don't know from first hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same.
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On October 05 2011 03:26 illsick wrote:
In other "sports" it is the same thing
If you go to NFL website, people leave immature comments all the time. I notice these things because I'm checking on stats of games being played and sometimes scroll down to read some of the comments. In some of the forums or community sites, the "fans" of the sports are just racist. There's this tennis website I visit a lot and when Federer lost to Tsonga there was a lot of racist comments.
In live events, like football or basketball, it is really common to see people shouting stupid immature stuff; I do it a lot. In college, I knew lots of people going to the games drunk and just heckling the opposing teams. Fans do it at live professional football games too. I'm not sure about other sports, since I don't know from first hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same.
Yeah, definitely. But doing this in games will generally have you removed from the game. At least that's been my experience at College/Pro games here in the States. Plus they don't disrupt ever conversation being had related to the game as they are limited to their small section of the stands. While frustrating for many, at least there are other groups around the stadium just relaxing having a good time and enjoying the game. For the most part the only way for me to be in the situation now is to simply close the chat and go back to watching all by my lonesome.
Once again, in my opinion, the best chats are those that are reasonably or heavily modded. Makes it more from for everyone. Props to the mods in the Korean weekly (i think it's just orb keeping them in line honestly) and the most in CatZ and Stephano's streams have seemed pretty good when I've been in there. Hope this was coherent/relevant.
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On October 03 2011 13:12 Luepert wrote:
Ok, it has been coming more prominent recently, but this problem has always been there but It seems that sc2 fans are major trolls. You can go into any stream chat (except NASL where you have to pay to talk) and it will be full of rage, ignorance, political arguments, name calling, threats, etc.
I was watching IEM yesterday, Jinro beat Idra with a bunker rush, for the next 5-10 minutes the chat was full of "Jinro a fag", "Terran fag race" "press 1 is terran is master fag race" I went to comment on Strelok's macro for the next game but my message was buried in a moment by a political argument where someone was saying (real quote) "USA trades $4 trillion and 50,000 lives for 2 sand niggers" Its outrageous the extent of these trolls. sayings like "go kill yourself" mean nothing anymore, I barley even notice them anymore.
More stories, Some dude in GOM chat repeatedly says every morning that Moletrap raped a Korean in 1991, and if anyone asks him to shut up he tells them to "get off moletraps dick" Also in that chat, there is a dude named "EGincholesteral" he devotes himself for talking about how fat Incontol is. I know its retarded and I could just leave the chat but its sad how a few stupid peopple can ruin an experience for the rest.
Now to regular sports, your at the football game, imagine if like thousands of people at the stadium just started shouting "(insert athlete here) is a fag!!!" "Yell 1 if (athlete) is a fag" It would never happen.
I was trying to introduce some of my friends to the esports scene and they were just utterly appalled by the chats on the tournament, they are every little about the actual current matches and much more about who is a fag, political arguments, racism, and general douchebagness.
Point being, stupid anonymous fans give the scene a bad rep, and remove a lot of enjoyment from those who actually want to enjoy come conversation about the games they are watching.
/endrage
I agree with you, I really do. However, iNcholestroL is just a really funny troll name.
Is it wrong to laugh? ><
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idiots are everywhere, not exclusive to stream chats, not even sports alone. people act like fools at every baseball/soccer game i've been to in north america or in europe, they're likely just more contained with the blatant extremist and just plain disturbing views that you mentioned because they lack the annonymity of the internet.
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These types of trolls live to get a rise out of you. The best thing you can do is ignore them and not give them any attention. It's the internet, you're going to have to accept that there are morons, idiots, and sometimes even easygoing people who like giving the stuck up and overly sensitive a hard time. No one goes to an internet stream, or a popular offline sporting wearing a monocle expecting to have an in depth intellectual with the person sitting next to them or in the stream chat.
Believe it or not, fans can even be harsh in the Korean Brood War scene. After losing two games against KT in the SPL playoffs Movie from CJ received some brutal comments from fans (some of the stuff was like kill yourself or quit Starcraft, but I can't find the thread so I can't give you any specifics ).
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EPT
