• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:30
CET 20:30
KST 04:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool43Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL
Tourneys
2026 Changsha Offline Cup [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1514 users

Philosophy of Knowledge - Page 11

Blogs > Oreo7
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 All
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
July 05 2011 00:22 GMT
#201
1) You are right, our world is based on a certain set of basic beliefs we cannot verify. However, no one is always as accurate as taking this into account every time they say something, so the use of the word faith in this case seems redundant.

What I adressed is that you are not using the "scientific method", you're just using intuition, which is fine, really, but it's not an "educated guess". Maybe you do have a PhD in scientific history, but I really doubt so. So when you claim with confidence that science will manage to attain what I held as absolute mysteries (the concepts of eternity, infinity, the shape of the universe, and such), you are NOT using the "scientific method', you are using simple LOGIC and not even rigorous logic as it is probably a result of your INTUITION since you probably did not do the necessary research to make such claims.

By the way... so if, you agree that the "scientific method" is really just a set of methods, I wonder, do you really believe that those sciences share a common vague modus operandi, a real method? Because I came to see that what we call a "scientific method" does not apply for sociology, or psychology, and very loosely to astronomy, meteorology, or sismology.
So, if you ever wanted to use a "scientific method" to determine if you need a bulletproof vest to leave your home safely, wouldn't you use psychology and sociology? But then again, if you believe there truly is a scientific method, those aren't sciences! So, do you not believe that those two are sciences? And if they're not, then we already see two disciplines (or at least sociology, psychology being sometimes a joke, I think) who do a pretty good job at giving us some decent informations about the world, without being sciences!


2) I still see scientific studies on the subject, at least I recall seeing a few in the past years...


3) A) You ARE trusting science blindly, as I highly doubt that you are well versed not only on botanics, but in physics, chemistry, mathematics, sociology, psychology, astrology, and so on. You claim that you have seen results, but what kind of results? Has science made life better? This is a complex question, so if your answer is immediately "no", you are being faithful.
Did religion mainly aim to explain physical phenomenons? No. Religion mostly tries to give a meaning to life. Did religion make life better? It did sometimes, I guess. Can we diabolize it? We could, but we would be forced to diabolize science, you know, after seeing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Painlevé's filmed experiments on living beings, the unit 751 of Kizu, gas chambers, and the list goes on.
Again, when you answer to such questions, you are likely yo have a readymade idea that does not really follow the rigorous "scientific method".

"But there is evidence science works!" Well, peasants thought that cathedrals were a good evidence that their king had a divine right to rule. "Things in general" is not evidence. Maybe you are well versed in many sciences, but does that mean that science in general is flawless? And does that mean that any individual trusting science necessarily has an extensive knowledge of what he supports?

B) Science can explain many things, and as you said it is the best tool to analyze the way the world works. However, is it the best tool to determine what's right from what's wrong? Will science give me an answer if I ask something like "should I have sex with my children"?
You could either refer to:
- Psychology, but then there is no "scientific method", it's just a term that regroups the immense variety of methods used by all sciences
- Or else psychology isn't a science, and you refer to any other sciences, that will basically say that it's OK as long as I don't generate a pregnancy.

Other more metaphysical questions like "What should I do?" or "Who should I be?" can obviously not be answered by science; thus my position, saying that science has its own domain of studies, and is not a general way to attain truth. Thinking that science provides answers for everything is a faithful and in my opinion foolish thinking.

And NO, believing in god does not stop people from looking from truth. It DOES NOT make you believe in fairies, it is in fact not contradictory with science in general. I've seen deist scientists. Rousseau, one of the most brilliant thinkers of his time, much more rigorous and philosophical than Voltaire who was mainly an ideologist, was a deist for example. And he probably looked more for answers than anyone here!


4) Science has a logical approach of things, like philosophy and many other things. I don't really see your point, as science has nothing to do with logical assumptions which fill our everyday lives. Don't confuse science and logic, and don't think science has the monopoly of logic.


5) Science does not give better results than everything else. In fact, science has nothing to do with the most valuable pieces of knowledge I have. Science has contributed very little into directly shaping me, in comparison with other things like tradition, philosophy, or even litterature.
And I believe it is the same for you. What taught you not to rape people in the streets? Your parents, probably...

And no, you can't be empirically sure of what you're seeing, since you could be blind and still know there is a pillar in front of you. You can however be empirically sure that you see what you see. Whether it is true or not, it cannot be answered, and it does not really matter apart from showing that we have an axiomatic perception of things.



To deathly rat: philosophy is the critical, rational, systematic and rigorous analysis of questions regarding life, language, humanity, morality, using the definition of concepts which are afterward used as common tools which can in turn be used as a ground for a common reflexion, as long as those participating are aware of said concepts. There is no universal method though, as philosophy gave birth to many schools, which had their own way to proceed.

I already adressed above the reasons why science isn't the universal answer for any question in the world. Science only gives factual answers in the concerned domains (physics, chemistry, biology, etc) and does not adress (should not adress) ethical or metaphysical questions among which is the existance of God, the purpose of life, the notions of good and evil, or any complex question that doesn't lie on immediate facts but on a variety of concepts. However, philosophy and science don't exclude each other and, as said earlier, there have been many scientists who were also philosophers, and the other way around.

When you say that the difference between philosophy and science are empirical observations... well, most of modern science is based on empirical observations. Plato did define the concept of a world of ideas, but this was about 2300 years ago. What philosophers do is arrange those concepts in categories, or develop ideological ideas that have little to do with experience. But ideologies are usually easily identified and rarely shown as absolute truths.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
July 05 2011 01:32 GMT
#202

I agree with you, but the question about the existence of a god and the creation of the universe often takes place about science. The Christian church has for centuries recognised that the general popluation having a scientific understanding of the world disempowers them and stands contradictory to their world view. It's for this reason that they constantly try to undermine scientific education across the world.

There are obvious overlaps between philosophy and science. In most cases science acts as witness providing the information, whilst philosophical thinking can debate the ethical ramifications.

However the point I was debating with koreasilver was the method of discovering things about the world we live in. I put it to you that if you grew up entirely in a locked room you could come up with many ideas about the world outside the room. You could create a scenario in which there was no "outside world", or you might say there are just other rooms like the one you are in, or you might have another idea. It would all be an interesting philosophical exercise, but the point is that all of these ideas would be equally valid. In order to find out what was actually out there you would have to either go outside to observe or start to collect secondary evidence. This is why science is the method for discovering how the universe works and not philosophy.
No logo (logo)
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
July 05 2011 02:51 GMT
#203
I'll respond to your conclusions:
A. god does not exist
True, but he exists in our minds. I was watching an experiment where scientists use magnets to cause people to have visions related to god. Some saw hell, some saw heaven. The 6th sense of the brain causes us to believe there is a higher being, and religions are created because of this.
B. Man is mortal
Who cares? If man wasn't mortal then flash would win all starcraft tourneys for the rest of the world. Its good. It makes things matter, because we dont have unlimited time.
C. Life has no inherant meaning.
That's what is so great. We can choose the meaning. Most people do what makes them happy
Think rationally, but optimistically
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
Sotamursu
Profile Joined June 2010
Finland612 Posts
July 07 2011 21:46 GMT
#204
Wow I thought this thread was dead. This will be my last post in this thread, I'll read your reply to it, but I'm not going to write an answer.

1. A common vague modus operandi would be using perception and logic to study the world I guess. Using both of those efficiently leads to the scientific method. It's not only limited to a person physically observing something. For example the orbit of Pluto takes close to 250 years to make one round. We have never seen it make one round, but we can still calculate that this is what will happen.

Because I came to see that what we call a "scientific method" does not apply for sociology, or psychology, and very loosely to astronomy, meteorology, or sismology.

I don't even know what to say to that. Scientific method does not apply to sociology or psychology? Having studied psychology quite a bit I can assure you that the scientific method is applied to any serious experiment and most experiments have produced legit information.


So, if you ever wanted to use a "scientific method" to determine if you need a bulletproof vest to leave your home safely, wouldn't you use psychology and sociology?

1. Should I wear a bulletproof vest outside? (Question)
2. Look at statistics, observe the outside. How likely is it that a shooting will occur? (Now next I would normally have to make an experiment, however I already have the data(statistics) so I just have to analyze it. Oh look, according to the statistics 95% of the people who go out after 24:00 get shot.)
3. Wear a bulletproof vest at night as you are likely to be shot. (publish results)
4. Other people check it for mistakes repeatedly and don't find anything
5. What do you know, the scientific method brought us something useful in the field of sociology.

Just because we can't pinpoint everything in human behaviour does not mean the scientific method is inherently broken, human brains haven't been studied enough and our current technology limits us in the department. That's the only reason psychology or sociology aren't called hard sciences.

Funnily enough all the other branches of science you mentioned also use the scientific method when studying things that fall under their area.

2. After a quick google search, I couldn't find anything other than christian propaganda.

3. a) I don't know what your standards are for well-versed, but I have a good basic understanding various sciences, that allows me to understand the reasoning behind a claim. Or if I at first don't understand something, I can study it a bit further. I know this is some sort of a dumb trick question, since science has brought you the luxurious technology that allows your current lifestyle and if I said that and used technology as an example, I'd just get some useless comment back.

Uh, you're comparing maybe improving someones life by making them believe in god to improving the lives of the vast majority of humans. Sure technology gained through science can be used for "evil" purposes, but the pros out weigh the cons so much, it would be dumb not to use it.

Who said science was flawless? There's always uncertainty in everything. I don't care, if some hillbilly redneck doesn't know why something happens, but knows that it happens. I don't take claims that could change my life on faith.

b) Depends on how you define right and wrong. Let's say right is everything that benefits the society and wrong is everything that hurts the society. The choices you offer are limited and psychology might not necessarily be the only field that would apply to this scenario.
- Let's say someone studied the effects of incest on our society. A good choice to start would be to look at statistics. The scientist looks at the data and after analyzing it concludes that people that were inbred lived an average of 10 years less than other people. Then he studies inbreeding with his doctor friend and they end up finding out that inbred people have less telomeres.
- So basically yes, it is ok if two consenting adults have sex as long as they don't conceive. Any objection to this would be on emotional grounds i.e. that disgusts me so it is wrong.

You don't use science to really do anything other than get a result and then see what you can do with that result.

Questions like "What should I do?" are always loaded. You are presuming that you have to do something. There is no evidence of an ultimate purpose and this kind of goes back to arguing about god. If you want to live, you should do things that keep you alive, how do you know how to stay alive in various situations? This is where science steps in. The results produced by the scientific method could be used to tell you what you need to do to reach your goal.

I meant that you stop looking for answers for the questions your belief already answered. Like if you truly believed the sun is actually dragged up there by a giant scarab every morning, you would not try to explain why the sun goes up every day. It's just a simple case of
a) doing nothing to get an answer
b) doing something to get an answer

4) Science doesn't have a monopoly on logic. Science is just an extension of it, that is why most of the examples I use sound like normal logic to you.

5) ... yes it does when you are trying to study the natural world and gain reliable information. For other vague and abstract things, maybe. You see, science is just a way of getting a good aswer for a question. If a certain question was significant to you and we found out that the real answer was not the thing you were expecting, it will shape you as a person.

I wonder what kind of knowledge you hold valuable. As for science shaping you, that's just incredibly vague on so many levels. It's really a matter of how you look at it, it's the same problem when answering metaphysical questions through science. If a person just sat at home and played WoW 24/7, would science have shapen him because it produced the computer the person uses?

As for things like what taught me to not rape on the streets? I did. It's not really hard when you know that crimes are punishable and things that hurt others is not something you want to do.

Damn what a wall of text.




Prev 1 9 10 11 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 440
elazer 368
UpATreeSC 49
IndyStarCraft 43
ROOTCatZ 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14937
Calm 3567
Shuttle 818
Bisu 776
Mini 369
ggaemo 186
firebathero 168
Dewaltoss 156
EffOrt 145
actioN 105
[ Show more ]
Mind 57
IntoTheRainbow 20
soO 11
Dota 2
Gorgc7130
Counter-Strike
byalli835
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu276
MindelVK14
Other Games
Grubby2664
singsing1363
FrodaN1098
Beastyqt700
ceh9605
B2W.Neo234
C9.Mang0139
QueenE99
Hui .97
ToD82
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream40
StarCraft 2
angryscii 18
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 4
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 40
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1607
• WagamamaTV510
League of Legends
• Nemesis3196
Other Games
• imaqtpie793
• Shiphtur216
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
4h 30m
Replay Cast
13h 30m
Afreeca Starleague
14h 30m
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
15h 30m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
KCM Race Survival
1d 13h
The PondCast
1d 14h
WardiTV Team League
1d 16h
OSC
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Platinum Heroes Events
3 days
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
OSC
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-23
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.