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On June 19 2011 08:17 Arkansassy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:06 Jibba wrote:
Keep in mind the average TLer is completely ignorant of the distinction between psychologist and psychiatrist, just as they are between finances and economics, and politics and political science.
Chef, Excalibur_Z is a bright guy, what he said is true. It may work or it may not, but keep in mind there's probably a well trained person on the other side. That doesn't mean to concede to their opinion. Just treat it with your normal academic curiosity and see where it goes.
Arkansassy, psychologists hold PhDs. Psychiatrists hold MDs. Only one of those can prescribe medicine. In short, you don't have a clue of what you're talking about. I highlighted your opening paragraph as I believe that's an insult to the "average TLer." I mean if I were average, I'd certainly be insulted. lol The last paragraph, in reference to me, is highlighted because you are so wrong. As a volunteer for Hospice and our local suicide hotline, I have worked with many psychologists and psychiatrists (some good friends) I can tell you that many psychologists do not hold a PhD. So in short, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Prior to that, when I was working toward my degree in the performing arts, students would - many times - consult psychologists for insight into characters. I don't just spit out information that I obtained from a website. :D
The first paragraph is a basic generalization. Ignorance isn't bad considering it's an aspect that most don't feel the need to inform themselves (since they aren't personally affected by it). It's not an insult of their intelligence, but something that is expected and honestly understandable so long as they realize they're talking in realm they don't know or have not informed themselves on.
Many therapists don't hold a Ph. D, not psychologists and you should see why and what they can and cannot do, say or project as their "profession".
Hope this clarifies some things for you.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 19 2011 08:17 Arkansassy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:06 Jibba wrote:
Keep in mind the average TLer is completely ignorant of the distinction between psychologist and psychiatrist, just as they are between finances and economics, and politics and political science.
Chef, Excalibur_Z is a bright guy, what he said is true. It may work or it may not, but keep in mind there's probably a well trained person on the other side. That doesn't mean to concede to their opinion. Just treat it with your normal academic curiosity and see where it goes.
Arkansassy, psychologists hold PhDs. Psychiatrists hold MDs. Only one of those can prescribe medicine. In short, you don't have a clue of what you're talking about. I highlighted your opening paragraph as I believe that's an insult to the "average TLer." I mean if I were average, I'd certainly be insulted. lol The last paragraph, in reference to me, is highlighted because you are so wrong. As a volunteer for Hospice and our local suicide hotline, I have worked with many psychologists and psychiatrists (some good friends) I can tell you that many psychologists do not hold a PhD. So in short, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Prior to that, when I was working toward my degree in the performing arts, students would - many times - consult psychologists for insight into characters. I don't just spit out information that I obtained from a website. :D
You're still missing the point. And it is an insult towards people.
You're telling him to worry about being prescribed medication by a psychologist, when it's illegal just about everywhere in the country for them to do that. Beyond that, it seems like you don't fully grasp the difference between the two professions. To become a full member of the APA in the US, you need a PhD.
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If someone to ask me to go see a psychiatrist, I'd be hesitant as well, but after reading this blog I suggest that if your parents are paying, you should at least give it a shot.
Putting myself in your situation, I would see how you really don't want to go. I'd think that my problems are extremely personal and distinguished that it'd be difficult for some random stranger to correctly diagnose what I was going through. The media and television give a skewed perception on what these therapy sessions are really like as well.
In the end, what you have to realize is that if your symptoms correlate with patterns that have been studied and treated, then you should embrace the fact that whatever you're going through is something that many others have gone through before you. Sure, it may strip away the sense of your own special individual experiences/life, but it'd be best to traverse tough times knowing other people made it out OK.
It's like in SC (BW for your sake), imagine that you were really struggling with 3 Hatch Ling all-in. What if you're the only one who struggled with this problem, and you couldn't find ANY documentation on this build and it's screwing over your games hard. It's your own special little problem. Of course it'd drive you up the wall trying to find the solution.
But thankfully, tons of people struggled with 3 hatch ling all-ins, and there are guides and threads and wonderful liquipedia pages to help you out. If your personal problems are similar to those of others, a psychiatrist can point that out for you so you know you can extend to other resources for help.
Hope that made some sense, and best of luck. BTW love your BW blogs <3
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On June 19 2011 17:03 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 08:17 Arkansassy wrote:On June 19 2011 06:06 Jibba wrote:
Keep in mind the average TLer is completely ignorant of the distinction between psychologist and psychiatrist, just as they are between finances and economics, and politics and political science.
Chef, Excalibur_Z is a bright guy, what he said is true. It may work or it may not, but keep in mind there's probably a well trained person on the other side. That doesn't mean to concede to their opinion. Just treat it with your normal academic curiosity and see where it goes.
Arkansassy, psychologists hold PhDs. Psychiatrists hold MDs. Only one of those can prescribe medicine. In short, you don't have a clue of what you're talking about. I highlighted your opening paragraph as I believe that's an insult to the "average TLer." I mean if I were average, I'd certainly be insulted. lol The last paragraph, in reference to me, is highlighted because you are so wrong. As a volunteer for Hospice and our local suicide hotline, I have worked with many psychologists and psychiatrists (some good friends) I can tell you that many psychologists do not hold a PhD. So in short, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Prior to that, when I was working toward my degree in the performing arts, students would - many times - consult psychologists for insight into characters. I don't just spit out information that I obtained from a website. :D You're still missing the point. And it is an insult towards people. You're telling him to worry about being prescribed medication by a psychologist, when it's illegal just about everywhere in the country for them to do that. Beyond that, it seems like you don't fully grasp the difference between the two professions. To become a full member of the APA in the US, you need a PhD.
SO THATS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT NOW? Since we have finally established the clear difference between a Psychiatrist and Psychologist, its time to delve into the different degrees of psychology. Because anyone with a brain knows that to become a FULL MEMBER of the APA in the US YOU NEED a PhD. CLEARLY WHEN YOU SAID A PSYCHOLOGIST HOLDS A PHD YOU ONLY MEANT, FULL MEMBER APA.
Chef, I've been to every variety of mental health specialists and the one thing I learned is, you get out of it what you put into it. It's like anything else in life. If you go in lacking willingness and open-mindedness, surely it will be a waste of time.
Just make sure if you see a psychologist, hes FULL MEMBER APA.
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you get out of it what you put into it.
100% agreed.
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Sorry, but Arkansassy is pretty much right here. I didn't really give the necessary information for people to give me solid advice because I wasn't asking for any, I was just sharing the frustration of being told to see a psychologist lol. It is such a lazy way of trying to help someone. "Oh you're moving? You should hire movers." Thanks. Professionals or not, it's impersonal and insulting.
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There is nothing that drugs, or therapy can do that you cannot do yourself. Keep your money, make yourself happy and don't worry about anyone else.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 20 2011 01:07 Chef wrote:
Sorry, but Arkansassy is pretty much right here. I didn't really give the necessary information for people to give me solid advice because I wasn't asking for any, I was just sharing the frustration of being told to see a psychologist lol. It is such a lazy way of trying to help someone. "Oh you're moving? You should hire movers." Thanks. Professionals or not, it's impersonal and insulting.
What are your parents supposed to do? They're in unfamiliar territory and are highly impartial when it comes to you. I understand you have a lot of skepticism of experts and even college but it seems the brunt of your exploration is second hand.
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On June 20 2011 01:07 Chef wrote:
Sorry, but Arkansassy is pretty much right here. I didn't really give the necessary information for people to give me solid advice because I wasn't asking for any, I was just sharing the frustration of being told to see a psychologist lol. It is such a lazy way of trying to help someone. "Oh you're moving? You should hire movers." Thanks. Professionals or not, it's impersonal and insulting.
You didn't really make that point clear in your OP. It read a lot more as "I have all of these misconceptions about psychologists and therefore don't want to see them!" People responded directly to that.
And you shouldn't call it a "lazy solution"; your parents aren't psychic, and they may not have the training/experience to fully understand what you're going through.
Cute cat btw
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On June 18 2011 23:31 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 23:00 shinosai wrote:
People actually believe that you go to a doctor to determine whether or not you need medication? With most doctors it goes something like this:
Step 1) Determine if he is depressed
Step 2) If he's depressed, prescribe a drug.
Step 3) If that drug doesn't work, increase the dosage (more $$$!)
Step 4) If that doesn't work, prescribe a new drug.
You being depressed is an automatic qualification for drugs. Does anyone else see something wrong with that? Yeah, I do, because you blurred details and only skimmed half the things that happened.
You're right. I forgot to add in that you might see a doctor that is unable to prescribe you meds. He might offer you therapy instead. He also may send you to a doctor that can prescribe you meds, just to make sure you have access to the drugs. I find it rather odd... mostly because I don't believe the majority of cases in depression are a result of some chemical imbalance in the brain. And even if there is, it's not like anyone actually determines it. It's just presumed.
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What misconceptions? I see a 5 page argument about the differences between psychologists and psychiatrists, and some people arguing about what their exact qualifications are... Which is something I didn't even mention in my OP. I don't perceive the posts this thread as condescending (a little presumptuous maybe), I was talking about my parents.
I said what I imagined it to be, but I also said I know that there are many different psychologists with their own methods. If you're saying psychologists don't do what I said, you're wrong because people I know who've gone to psychologists have told me about what their sessions were like. One explained that they were given those types of missions, and another said that he just got to talk about his interests (even before getting into emotional stuff).
So I don't know what to say to that... I don't feel my OP was asking for advice at all. People just read 'see a psychologist,' skim thru the post, and make an assumption about what I meant. If you read it thoroughly, I think I'm a decent enough writer to have written what I meant, and a few people got it so nuts to you. People talk very big about depression and medicine on the internet, but it's not such a clear cut field if you've had to actually delve into it. Psychology is more scientifically rigorous than it used to be, but because of that it also has to admit that the human brain is not fully understood yet, and I think it should also respect philosophical qualms about whether being happy or 'content' is actually a person's objective.
Simplify, simplify, simplify. The brain is like programming! (very generous comparison). Do you really even know the stats for the number of depressed people who actually get "better?" What is considered a success? What is the value of independence? What does one want out of one's life? These are subjective questions that one must answer for oneself. I have. I've known since the beginning that I do not want to get therapy or take drugs. I didn't make this thread to ask 'should I see a professional?' I made this thread saying 'I would rather see a cat.' lol... Why is that the wrong answer? Because I answered the questions differently than you did? That seems rather unfair.
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Have you considered the Based philosophy?
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Im guessing the US are more advanced regarding this but while there are lots of crappy psychologist who either follow obsolete knowledge (ie: Psychoanalisis/Freud) or are just new age idiots with a title (Humanist Psychology) theres are other who are actually professionals about what they do and realize treatments based on actual empirical evidence (Systemic/Cognitive).
Thinking that Psychology is just a bunch of Mumbo Jumbo is an standard defense mechanism because we are taught that we are special and unique in this world, this is actually good and builds up a healthy mind but on the downsize makes you refuse the idea of someone being able to understand you simply because he studies other people.
Give it a shot, you have very little to lose and could possibly gain a lot from it, specially now that you are young.
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Thinking that Psychology is just a bunch of Mumbo Jumbo
Let me set the record and say that I have never said that, nor do I believe that. I don't know where this is coming from. I'm fully aware that modern psychology is based on the scientific method, I've taken a few psychology courses in my day, and I'm not an idiot. Just because I don't want to see a psychologist (one small part of psychology) doesn't mean it is a defence mechanism (it's ironic that you bring that up right after calling Freud obsolete) or that I'm denying the legitimacy of the entire field. You can't make a conclusion and say that the only reason I don't agree with you is because I have a defence mechanism or there is something else wrong with my perspective. That's not a strong argument, that's just bickering. I've offered good reasons why seeing a psychologist is not for me, but you're so quick to decide what's wrong with me and why I need to be fixed, why I should be more like you. What's so great about you? Maybe I like how I act, I think the way other people act is unhealthy? There's no such man I can tell you to see to try to get you to act just like me, so I'm a little defenceless here. How unfair.
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You are looking at this the wrong way.
Look at your own assumptions:
"Don't secretly judge me."
"Don't give patronizing advice."
"Won't dig for awkward memories and feelings."
"I have it my head that I'll be given missions like 'talk to a new person each day' or 'smile at strangers' "
"psychologist will just sit there nodding his or her head and force me into a very one sided conversation"
"It seems wrong to open up my intimate thoughts to a complete stranger"
Cmon, man, You dont even know the guy, and you already judged him.
Who said he is gonna give you a list of advices?
They are gonna give you a mission? how can you posible know?
They are gonna try to fix you? again, how do you know this?
You dont want to change, who said they are gonna change you?
Look, it happened the same to me, my mother arranged some sessions with a psychologist, and of course i feel insulted, everybody who knows me know im not average guy, (well,yeah,im very smart)but anyways, so i went and he told me if you want talk is great but if you dont wanna talk, fine, come over another day, so i said alright i dont want to be here bye.
The second time, i was more relaxed and i thou well i have a question for you, how do you supposed to handle this kind of situation where xxxx xxxx xxx?, and he would start to talk aobut his own experiences with his own family, and we started to talk a bit more.If i said to him im not interested in talking about a xxxx subject, because i think there is nothing to talk about that, he would say fine. he will never forced me to talk, or "dig" like you assume is going to happen.
All the assumptions you said, it never happened to me.
Be fair, give the guy a chance.
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why not have fun with a psychologist/psychiatrist?
imagine:
shrink: "what's troubling you lately?"
me: "bisu being out of the osl...again"
shrink: "OMG! I WAS LIKE 'THIS WAS SOOO HIS YEAR!'"
me: "i need weed"
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On June 20 2011 03:30 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 23:31 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 18 2011 23:00 shinosai wrote:
People actually believe that you go to a doctor to determine whether or not you need medication? With most doctors it goes something like this:
Step 1) Determine if he is depressed
Step 2) If he's depressed, prescribe a drug.
Step 3) If that drug doesn't work, increase the dosage (more $$$!)
Step 4) If that doesn't work, prescribe a new drug.
You being depressed is an automatic qualification for drugs. Does anyone else see something wrong with that? Yeah, I do, because you blurred details and only skimmed half the things that happened. You're right. I forgot to add in that you might see a doctor that is unable to prescribe you meds. He might offer you therapy instead. He also may send you to a doctor that can prescribe you meds, just to make sure you have access to the drugs. I find it rather odd... mostly because I don't believe the majority of cases in depression are a result of some chemical imbalance in the brain. And even if there is, it's not like anyone actually determines it. It's just presumed.
._________________.
because you blurred details and only skimmed half the things that happened
If I tweak my sentence, just a bit, it still rings true. You're ignoring a lot of details and steps while also speaking in a domain without any proper research? No determination of chemical imbalances? Just "presumed"?
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On June 20 2011 01:07 Chef wrote:
Sorry, but Arkansassy is pretty much right here. I didn't really give the necessary information for people to give me solid advice because I wasn't asking for any, I was just sharing the frustration of being told to see a psychologist lol. It is such a lazy way of trying to help someone. "Oh you're moving? You should hire movers." Thanks. Professionals or not, it's impersonal and insulting.
Your parents are out of their depth and want to help you. How is that insulting? Swallow your pride, lots of intelligent, capable people see psychologists to help them with their problems, It's not a big deal and yet you seem so biased against them.
My parents tried to help me by talking things through but they couldn't really help me deal with them. As much as your parents might love you, and as smart as you might be, an outside, professional perspective can be very helpful. CBT and proper counselling helped me alot. I'm still the same person, just not suffering as much from old insecurities and irrational/negative thoughts (like feeling frustrated and insulted at someone offering to help you). Going on your blogs I've always thought you seemed pretty smart and open-minded but you're way off base on this one. How the fuck can you think this guy is "pretty much right"??
On June 18 2011 09:00 Arkansassy wrote:
I'd venture to say the majority of psychologists become psychologists because of their own effed up minds or because someone close to them suffered from a mental illness. Of course, there are some that go into the field simply to help others, because they think they're so frickin superior in an emotionally well-balanced way. *rolls eyes*
Now let's see, psychiatrists dish out drugs - the majority of which have extremely bad side-effects, and the psychologists won't even talk to you until you see a shrink and are heavily medicated. lol
Nevertheless, when you're suffering from depression, it's not fun and some times you need a med for a jump start - the problem is, the idiots want to keep you on them forever.
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You could almost say her argument's Lacan.
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How the fuck can you think this guy is "pretty much right"??
I meant his other post about the objective of my blog, not what he thinks of the psychiatric system.
The stuff about the cat was not meant to be taken that seriously...
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EPT
