|
Sup TL
So recently I switched to terran, from protoss. I really like the way the race plays and how there are so many different options for what i can do as opposed to 1a colossus.
I feel like I can consistently beat masters level players now, as I was a masters protoss before, but theres just one issue with the race that I cant help but feel will diminish my fun in the long run.
In Terran vs Zerg and to a lesser extent TvP, it feels like it is almost impossible to expect to win a late 20-30 min macro game, unless i manage to completely shut down my opponent.
It seems like its almost a race, and playing terran feels like I HAVE to win by a certain point, or i might as well leave. For Zerg this is usually by the time they get a 3rd base and just mass mutas, and for protoss once they have enough templar/colo outmaneuver my ghosts/vikings.
So I was wondering TL, am I just looking at the game the wrong way? Are there any high level terrans that play macro games/FE's/etc. Or am I playing the wrong race for my playstyle?
|
Watch the MMA TvZ games from MLG.
A great example of how terran needs to play macro games vs zerg.
|
Well, macroing as a terran is extremely difficult but possible. The fact that we don't have hatcheries and warp gates doesn't stop us from putting down 15-20 raxxes and pump units all day 
What i'm trying to say. While it may be a tad more difficult. Its completely possible!
|
just play the way you want. for me. i play zerg by spreading creep as fast as possible.
+ Show Spoiler +12 pool creep at edge hatch, send queen to start proxy creep halfway across the map... and ITS AMAZINGLY FUN to have shattered temple completely covered in creep at the 9 minute mark (:
ive sacrificed being moderatly high in masters to now high diamond. its just funner to do what you want instead of playing how everyone else plays. if you feel terran macro is fun but you won't be able to play at that higher level than drop a few ranks (:
|
Hrm.. depends on the style you want to play, but I think vs zerg if the zerg isn´t overly aggressive a lot of tvz turn into pretty long macro games (at least for me, I rarely play a tvz in under 25 minutes, but I also tend to force it mech-turteling style mapsplit including just because I like it, don´t know how "viable" this would be if I really tried to get ouf of diamond instead of casually playing a few ladder games per week. I do occasionally win vs masters if I meet one though, so I´d imagine it wouldn´t be too bad as long as you keep harassing here and there)
Regarding protoss I´d say if you play bio it really depends A LOT on your unit control, if you watch pro games you do see terran 200/200 demolish deathballs with good flanking / great emps etc..., but you go down REALLY fast if its the other way around.
But overall I wouldn´t mind to much playing terran if you like macro games to be honest (godly drop-control helps though if you don´t like huge mech turteling)
|
Playing macro games as terran is really easy, most people just do it wrong. Playing bio vs protoss or marine/tank vs zerg is not the best way to play "macro terran". However, most people just try and use the "normal" strategies and then call it impossible to keep up with zerg/protoss.
You just slowly choke your opponent and you make sure that he doesnt get the chance to attack you, ever.
Vs both zerg and protoss i play mech or bio/mech. Vs zerg it's harder because he can remax so fast, but vs protoss if i reach the 20min mark i feel like i cant lose. Terran has some awesome mechanics for late game. Mules, PF, contains, if you use them correctly i feel like terran is the strongest late game race.
I try to end TvT's quickly though, cause they are so frustrating to play, since the same can be done to you :D
To sum up: Dont play bio vs protoss, dont play marine/tank vs zerg. Use compositions that are good late game (which is basically just mech, bio/mech and maybe some sort of air build).
|
All 3 races can be macro or micro races. Nothing in SC is that simple.
|
On June 06 2011 22:59 Samura1Jack wrote:Well, macroing as a terran is extremely difficult but possible. The fact that we don't have hatcheries and warp gates doesn't stop us from putting down 15-20 raxxes and pump units all day What i'm trying to say. While it may be a tad more difficult. Its completely possible!
Lol. how is it harder?
lololol are you silver league?
|
might not have hatcheries but you can still bind all your production facilities to a single hotkey if you so choose
|
To the OP, I totally understand what you mean, especially TvZ. Before, I was always trying to do timings to knock down the third base and get the win by outmacroing from there but after watching MMAs MLG run, I now see how terran can compete with a zerg with the use of multiple dropships.
To deadlyfish: Don't give bad advice please... Also you say you do bio/mech then you say don't do marine/tank, isn't that bio/mech? lol....
|
On June 06 2011 23:36 echo_O wrote:
To the OP, I totally understand what you mean, especially TvZ. Before, I was always trying to do timings to knock down the third base and get the win by outmacroing from there but after watching MMAs MLG run, I now see how terran can compete with a zerg with the use of multiple dropships.
To deadlyfish: Don't give bad advice please... Also you say you do bio/mech then you say don't do marine/tank, isn't that bio/mech? lol....
Eh i guess you could call it that. bio/mech would be more like marine/thor/tank heavy on the tanks. What most terrans do is just marine/tank with way too many marines.
People just dont realize how good mech is, especially vs protoss. Marine/tank is good and all, but late game vs Z mech is much better in my experience.
|
you always want a lot of marines and just tanks to support, but the more the better. Once you have around 9 tanks and a bunch of marines, thats a pretty fucking strong army composition. Also, bio IS the best way to play TvP. Blink stalkers are too good against mech because of the immobility. Maybe I'm wrong about mech but the current trend is definitely bio against Protoss.
|
On June 06 2011 23:42 echo_O wrote:
you always want a lot of marines and just tanks to support, but the more the better. Once you have around 9 tanks and a bunch of marines, thats a pretty fucking strong army composition. Also, bio IS the best way to play TvP. Blink stalkers are too good against mech because of the immobility. Maybe I'm wrong about mech but the current trend is definitely bio against Protoss.
You cant just say which one is better... If 1 strategy was the best then everyone would just play that. The reason they dont is because some people are just better suited for other strategies. If you like to sit back and play back a macro game without having to harass all the time then mech is better.
I dont know why people dont go mech vs protoss, i dont wanna act like i know better than everyone else but mech is VERY good.
Stalkers die to every mech unit. They might be good for harassing but you do not want a stalker heavy army vs mech. Tanks, thors and hellions all do fantastic vs stalkers.
I bet most people just dismiss mech without ever really trying it 
|
I am not master's level yet but I believe I am in masters league lol. I'm only in diamond because I play too little.. SotiS is too addicting~
Anyway, I used to play Protoss like you and got bored and decided to play Terran. I love macro.. or at least 2 CCs so I can switch tech whenever if I want to. So my normal build for zerg players 2 rax opening so the zerg would at least waste some minerals on spine crawlers and CC right away. Then get one refinery for upgrades. Ever since, I don't think I've ever lost to zerg.. just mass marines and push when they get their third and expand and stay ahead on upgrades. You might think banelings might be cost effective and they have larvae but once you can produce like 30 marines 2 medivacs in 40 seconds... no hatcheries will be able to withstand with that amount of power.
Also note that you'd want to start trading marines for their larvaes (early game lings/banelings) BEFORE they get any mutas out (so first wave of 25 marines at like 8:00). Banelings require gas, meaning less mutas on the field. Deny any third/fourth/fifth. I've played with any zerg composition and I mean literally ANY. Infestors/lings/banelings; broodlords, lings, banelings; roaches/mutas; ultralisk/ling/banelings; etc. And I'm not talking about a max 200/200 army. Talking about 50 marines vs 50 units equivalent. As long as you're ahead in upgrades and stim, those marines will go into town.
|
On June 06 2011 23:42 echo_O wrote:
you always want a lot of marines and just tanks to support, but the more the better. Once you have around 9 tanks and a bunch of marines, thats a pretty fucking strong army composition. Also, bio IS the best way to play TvP. Blink stalkers are too good against mech because of the immobility. Maybe I'm wrong about mech but the current trend is definitely bio against Protoss.
After a certain mass you can pretty much almost trade hellions cost effective vs stalker (well, probably not really, but they do decent if they hit 2-3 stalker at a time). I tried to go by the build from LZgamer, which can only be troublesome if you go against early starport play (phoenix even more than voidray actually). But yeah, there are maps where in my opinion mech isn´t really playable because toss will just dance around you all game (I find meta cross pretty hard for example). I´m just a complete failure when it comes to bio vs toss though, so I still keep trying mech instead of learning to play bio right
(but if you go terran and have problems with bio like I do, look up the LZgamer reppack, its a nice strat overall and to me really fun to play)
|
Terran can macro with the best of them, mules are extremely powerful and late game you can sack a ton of scv's and replace them with 5-6 orbitals just dropping mules for a huge army advantage. Terran's econ is weaker in the early stages of a game due to how fast Zerg and Protoss can pump workers, you will often find yourself 20 workers down in the mid game due to injects or chrono but once you have 3-4 bases up and 3 orbitals you have the advantage..... terrans only need a max 65 workers if they have enough orbitals and the other races simply can't keep up after that unless they are willing to make 80-100 workers, which gives you the army advantage in a 200/200 fight.... Its possible for terran in theory to have a real 200/200 army, its not for the other races.
If you watch pro terrans most of them FE in TvP and TvZ and they usually end up on 3+ bases, the late game terran army is stupidly powerful, you just have to be really hot on your scouting to not get caught by tech switches. Do double pronged attacks, you should have a medivac ready and waiting to drop a base when you attack with your main force.
Against Z you should just push as slow as possible towards your opponent, keep your bio spread out and leap frog your tanks, removing creep as you go until you are in a position to start attacking multiple bases at once. if you can, snipe the spawning pool (thankyou MMA lol) to give yourself a huge advantage in the re-supply phase after a big battle.
Against P its all about scouting,if you ever get caught off guard by a collosi, HT or DT switch.... you are screwed. Use those scans, drop their main and nat, use a factory or rax to scout their bases, T has the best scouting in the game (with exception of the observer, but you can shut those down easy)
Oh yeah and hotkeying your rac and facts to the same hotkey is very useful if you struglle with macro, you just tab between them ;p
|
On June 06 2011 23:16 Deadlyfish wrote:
To sum up: Dont play bio vs protoss, dont play marine/tank vs zerg. Use compositions that are good late game (which is basically just mech, bio/mech and maybe some sort of air build).
I think you basically said the brood war equivalent of
"To sum up: don't play vulture/tank vs protoss, don't play skterran vs zerg...."
...
|
lololol im with you on this avilo. also i was watching you play some open bracket games at MLG. such a weird interesting style hahaha
|
On June 06 2011 23:18 Angra wrote:
All 3 races can be macro or micro races. Nothing in SC is that simple.
That's true. I used to think that Zerg is a strictly macro race when I made the switch from Terran because I flatout suck at that race. I overlooked the fact that I have to:
1. Inject Larva with my Queens
2. Possibly use my Overseers to figure out what my opponent is doing
3. Make my Mutalisks check if the opponent made a second expansion
4. Put my Infestors to good use (cause they are awesome)
5. Creep Spread
|
You're wondering if macro games as Terran are "wrong"?
Go download some Avilo or Goody replays. Two of the most macro-terran players I know. More Goody than Avilo, Avilo isn't quite as long-term focused as Z or P (from what I've seen, anyways. 86 minute long TvP at MLG though lawl)
|
On June 07 2011 00:23 DocNemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 23:18 Angra wrote:
All 3 races can be macro or micro races. Nothing in SC is that simple. That's true. I used to think that Zerg is a strictly macro race when I made the switch from Terran because I flatout suck at that race. I overlooked the fact that I have to: 1. Inject Larva with my Queens 2. Possibly use my Overseers to figure out what my opponent is doing 3. Make my Mutalisks check if the opponent made a second expansion 4. Put my Infestors to good use (cause they are awesome) 5. Creep Spread
All of those are macro commands.
Terran is the micro race. A guy like MarineKing can 1rax FE almost every game because his control is so good he can hold off most things. If you tried to do this, you'd be destroyed. Likewise with marine/marauder/medivac vs Protoss, drops, marines vs banelings, etc etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
