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Zurich15357 Posts
Queuing and Lines
On my trip to Blizzcon in 2008 I realized another rather counter intuitive quality of Germans: The complete inability to stand in line. Well actually what I realized is the disciplined queuing that spontaneously occurred there in a foreign country, something that would be unthinkable around here.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ECxXi.png)
Blizzcon 2008
+ Show Spoiler [How this scene would have looked like…] +![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/BpNBQ.png) How this scene would have looked like in Germany
If there are no guiding provisions like well set up railings, Germans will typically try to take the most direct way towards what they are supposed to line up to. Since everybody tries to get there as quickly as possible, the above shown chaos emerges quickly, everyone gets stuck, pissed off, or dies.
This is why theme parks, airports and the like provide these elaborate mazes of railings to securely guide the masses in an orderly fashion.
That's not to say there aren't exceptions. For reasons I cannot entirely understand myself, queuing in the company cafeteria seems to work out of nowhere. Most of the times it works in a university's cafeteria as well, but already signs of queue anarchy can be observed there.
Once you are out in the wild streets, you should avoid any place where lines might build up, or be prepared to elbow check your way through on your own. In England I noticed people just standing in line at the side of street for some random reason. It actually took me a while to process this picture until I understood that they were waiting for the bus, so foreign was the sight to me.
Of course, the canny Germans have worked out ways to avoid queuing chaos at places where lines are regular and unavoidable. At most public offices people draw a number and their request are being processes strictly in order. With order and maximum efficiency thus officially regulated and ensured, the troubled German mind can rest and most people find themselves peacefully sitting around reading boring women's magazines. + Show Spoiler [Small rant] +This is something that has bugged me for years. Why does every waiting room have a wide selection from Brigitte to Cosmopolitan, and at best one issue of Focus Money? Are men just expected to bring their own reading? Every time I enter the room I sigh in resignation when I see one guy reading Spiegel since I know he must have grabbed the only issue.
The supermarket checkout is the ultimate arena where Germans on the one hand display their indignation with lines, on the other hand the skill needed to keep waiting at a minimum. Supermarket lines are a stressful experience. You can actually notice the rising tension in people's faces as they get closer to their turn at the register. Once game is on, every move has to be executed perfectly. You are expected to bag your groceries yourself, and you better prepared and properly deflated the plastic bags (which you must purchase) beforehand to even have a chance to keep up with the cashier's pace. I believe everyone has developed their own techniques to proceed through supermarket registers fast, from placing the items on the conveyor in the order you want to put them in the bag, calculating your total purchase beforehand to have compatible change ready at hand to impressive ambidextrous maneuvers seemingly untrained people perform while storing their stuff in their bags.
With good reason. There is hardly anything as terrifying as the stares of the 17 outraged Germans behind you (including the cashier's) should you fail at this procedure. As liberal and tolerant Germans usually are, supermarket failure is where they draw the line. The unprepared customer might want to run away scared. It takes years of inner city small supermarket checkout training to master this with cool sovereignty.
When I was shopping once in Argentina it took me an unthinkable 40 minutes to get out of the supermarket one time, while the girls in front of me were chatting with the cashier for a good 20 minutes. I think over here you could file for human rights abuse should something like that happen. In fact many places offer you a discount should you have to wait more than 5 minutes.
The most critical point is reached when the store opens a new register. Everybody's chance to cut the line while still sticking to protocol! This should be noted, as anarchic as queuing often is, once there is a line, cutting is considered incredibly offensive and will result in verbal abuse. When a new register opens you better had your share of evasive driving lessons. People will jerk their carts around and ram them into the new direction without any regard to previously existing lines, or other people's knee caps. I have seen scenes close to open fighting.
"Close to open fighting" is the level queue frustration usually remains at though. As angry as people can get over situations like these, as soon as there is any indication of actual physical violence incoming they'll be quick to back down. In closing here is a quick story just from this weekend:
I was at the post office to pick up my new keyboard. Four or five people in front of me lining up at two counters. As more people come in after me they assumed the first line was the only valid one and lined up behind me. When the poor guy at the other counter tried to advance he was received with a number of angry comments from the back rows (from people who came in after him or me) that he should get into line and what he was thinking cutting etc. It would have been my turn instead, but I just told him to go ahead before me, which resulted in even angrier comments from the citizens in the back, suggestion I should leave now and line up again in the rear. So I slowly turned around, walked up to the biggest complainer, pointed at his face and calmly said something somewhat aggressive like "Look, the gentlemen was here just before I was. You've got a problem with that?", which reduced the situation to passive aggressive talk among the complainers how it's the post office's responsibility to ensure people line up correctly and similar whining.
I suppose one of my future columns should be about complaining in general. Something Germans excel at more than any other group on this planet.
Random bits of knowledge about Germany
Ep4: Bild and Fear
Ep3: Stereotypes
Ep2: Sauna
Ep1: Small Talk
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aahh so true the german supermarket. I was in South Africa a few weeks ago and the supermarkets drove me insane. They are SOOOO SLOW its unbelievable. The cashier checks 1 Item per 10 seconds. The other person packs your bags while almost falling asleep. They have like 30 checkout and 60 people working there but its takes sooooo long.
You forgot to mention that theres always somebody who tries to pay with his change and keeps looking for 5min for the right amount to only pay 5,99€ with a 10€ in the end. OOH How I hate such people its mostly elder people but still.
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What I hate is when people use the self-checkout lines to buy things like vegtables that need pricing inputted, or have kids with them or obviously don't know how to use such a device, have more than 15 items, and take 10 minutes to do self-checkout.
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Pay with a card, and bagging stuff you'll learn as soon as you move out of your moms basement :p If the part about complaining is yet to come, LOL ^^
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Yeah, wtf is wrong with their magazines choice?
Here is the same bullshit, they have like 1 newspaper (most likely of the day before or even older), thousands of women magazines and a few boring magazines on economics.
Needless to say its impossible to grab the newspaper because certainly there is another man already reading it.
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Wait, so you are saying people organized a line like THAT completely by themselves? Without railing or guys directing them? A line with fucking bends? Freestyle?
BLOWS MY MIND
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In Switzerland there normally is 1 Spiegel and if your lucky one National Geographic or something the like that in waiting rooms, but thats about it...
As for cueing... Switzerland is about the same, just a little less aggressive and/or "direct" (as usual).
Something like your picture of Blizzcon would never, ever happen... Not in a thousand years... If there is "german line" somewhere people that know each other (but aren't "together") sometimes begin to hold hands to not get seperated.
We could call it "day by day training for an emergency exit panic in a disco"? :p
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Another good one zatic  .
I think the worst behaviour of german getting lines i have ever seen is at festivals. It usually starts off at the tent where you get your band to gain access to the camping area. Hundreds of people pressing from behind and people jumping over fences, just a total chaos. You literally have to fight for every bit of ground. It is just the same if you are waiting to get into the area just before the stage. And god i hate it if there is already something close to a line and some people are just streaming in from the sides.
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On March 23 2011 01:47 Baalzamon wrote:Another good one zatic . I think the worst behaviour of german getting lines i have ever seen is at festivals. It usually starts off at the tent where you get your band to gain access to the camping area. Hundreds of people pressing from behind and people jumping over fences, just a total chaos. You literally have to fight for every bit of ground. It is just the same if you are waiting to get into the area just before the stage. And god i hate it if there is already something close to a line and some people are just streaming in from the sides.
Ha stupid them, everyone knows there is more friction at the queue's sides.
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zatic speaks truth, as usual.
Although I don't think the inability to queue is a germany-specific problem. From my experience (using the Paris metro every frikkin' day), people have trouble getting out of the train because the instant train stops and the doors open, people mindlessly try to get in the interior (feels like a baneling bust à la Morrow), thus blocking everyone trying to get out.
Not only is it incredibly ineffective from a time-saving perspective (similar to all those people standing up in the airplane or the long-distance train 10 minutes before arrival at the station just to stand around in the corridor, because sitting down again would mean they would admit having acted rashly; but in the end, noone gets out faster than those who sat down till the train stops); it is also incredibly impolite. Having grown up in Germany, I found my fellow citizens there to be at least slightly more considerate. I'm just honestly impressed that in America it works fluently, almost ant farm style.
edit: typo fail as usual
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The most recent occasion I've had to remember of a spontaneous line with bends here in the States was for the opening of a new Chipotle in my town, where the line was probably only around 100 people long, but it extended outside the store with a few random bends and no noticeable line-related conflicts.
I remember the lines in China being far more unnerving but that might've just been due to the abundance of people and the foreign nature of the situation.
EDIT: My experience with trains in the States has also been very good in terms of people waiting for passengers to leave the train before boarding it themselves. I'm surprised people even consider attempting to board the train while others are exiting, it just seems nonsensical.
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There is a (non-official) term in german. Aktives anstehen (active queuing). The time you actually need when you wait for something can differ from 10 minutes up to 1 hour (or even more) based on if you are a A+ lvl queuer or D-
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When I went to school in Scotland I heard many times from Germans who lines for food and such were "so inefficient." It hadn't occurred to me in efficientland that's how it ends up looking like LOL.
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Germany2896 Posts
One funny thing are escalators. There are no signs indicating that you should do it like that, but you don't stand on the left side.
On the right side you have a right to stand, on the left you have a right to walk. So if you stand on the left and block somebody behind you, you've made a new enemy. On the other hand if somebody is standing on the right you shouldn't complain.
At least this applies in Munich, I heard that there are other cities where this rule isn't followed.
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On March 23 2011 03:06 MasterOfChaos wrote:
One funny thing are escalators. There are no signs indicating that you should do it like that, but you don't stand on the left side.
On the right side you have a right to stand, on the left you have a right to walk. So if you stand on the left and block somebody behind you, you've made a new enemy. On the other hand if somebody is standing on the right you shouldn't complain.
At least this applies in Munich, I heard that there are other cities where this rule isn't followed.
In my experience that's basically the case in most small cities without a subway-system that's used at rush hours. The German i am is extremely annoyed everytime i take a escalator at my mid-sized city's (Karlsruhe) main station, because there's always several people not standing on the right side and i can't rush it down. Grrrrrr.
Last time i came back from Berlin i shouldered a young woman aside, lol, she was quite outraged but i hustled on ignoring her. I know, im a bad German, haha.
edit:
Alright i just came back from the supermarket and readin zatic's blog before i recogonized the classic it was more consciously. I came to a mid sized line, a few people very already looking around irritated/angry because the second line wasn't opened. A few seconds later the cashier called for the second checkout to open.
Now the thing is when she calls for the second checkout over the speaker you don't know how long it will take for the second cashier to arrive so people already standing in the line are undecided whether to keep waiting in their line or give up their place for a better one in the not yet manned checkout.
I went immediatly and with intent, but with calm and dignity, to the second checkout, earning stares from the yet undecided people in the old line.
Next thing that happend was a kind of bum asking the couple behind my whether he could put his beer on the conveyor belt(?) because he had back problems.
The girl of the couple sharply replied "yes, but only if you don't cut the line" to which he replied that he would never think about cutting in front of such a charming person to which she akwardly answered something i don't remember but in a tone that suggested she was chill with it in the first place it beeing a matter of course that he can put his stuff down.
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Haha, I'm German and actually EVERY word of that is true. Sometimes I get annoyed also, since I really like lines that show an order. Seem to be more like a D level queuer...
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Zurich15357 Posts
On March 23 2011 03:06 MasterOfChaos wrote:
One funny thing are escalators. There are no signs indicating that you should do it like that, but you don't stand on the left side.
On the right side you have a right to stand, on the left you have a right to walk. So if you stand on the left and block somebody behind you, you've made a new enemy. On the other hand if somebody is standing on the right you shouldn't complain.
At least this applies in Munich, I heard that there are other cities where this rule isn't followed.
This is my rule of thumb for cities worth living in. Cities where people get this concept are big enough for me to feel good.
Actually funny that you say that because Munich is the only exception to that rule as people there get it, but the city is so ridiculously provincial I often enough can't believe this is Germany's 3rd largest city. It feel like a huge charming village.
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Oh god, this takes me way back to my school days. It was a massacre! Dozens of children ganging up on the school bus, no breathing space at all. It was so crowded the door would oftentimes not open and the driver had to step outside and yell at us. I remember several people getting hurt, from sprained wrists to almost suffocation (not really, just breaking down or throwing up from lack of air ;D). Good times...
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why I have found zatics Blogs just now?! they are soo good I`m already waiting for the next issue about complaining.
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9070 Posts
^_^
I'll be in Munich this weekend. Lets watch the TSL !
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Zurich15357 Posts
Too bad I am only here Mo-Fr :-(
'Nother time.
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On March 23 2011 00:53 zatic wrote:
This is something that has bugged me for years. Why does every waiting room have a wide selection from Brigitte to Cosmopolitan, and at best one issue of Focus Money? Are men just expected to bring their own reading? Every time I enter the room I sigh in resignation when I see one guy reading Spiegel since I know he must have grabbed the only issue.
I think this is done to possibly prevent all the women in the room from talking at the same time. Spending more money to keep men occupied with reading is not necessary; men are going to patiently wait in silence.
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Korea (South)1897 Posts
Love the blogs, fills my need for content, yummy.
Question though, why don't Germans naturally stand in line, what is it about their constrained patience that makes it like, is it that Germans are very individualistic oriented and are time sensitive or is it a pervasive competitive nature that extends to even lines? And if the French and other Europeans are like this, is this just then showing their true inner barbarian nature from the Roman times? ^^
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You should see what its like at Dreamhack. The initial few hour queue to get in is ok. But then for people who didn't fill in their online details theres another queue. Like in your second diagram, it was just a funnel. And its a few hours big funnel as well. What a crazy crazy day.. -_-
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ROFL. Nice one...
For me the quintessential German trait if the ability to exist if any and all habitats, particularly those they weren't born into. The German traveller is as ubiquitous as the peace-waving-camera-toting-Japanese tourist or perhaps the sunburnt pom. They do have an ucanny ability to have fun though, oh and the ones I know are all sport mad. Seriously triatholons...every week..seriously?
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Zurich15357 Posts
On March 23 2011 11:38 MightyAtom wrote:
Love the blogs, fills my need for content, yummy.
Question though, why don't Germans naturally stand in line, what is it about their constrained patience that makes it like, is it that Germans are very individualistic oriented and are time sensitive or is it a pervasive competitive nature that extends to even lines? And if the French and other Europeans are like this, is this just then showing their true inner barbarian nature from the Roman times? ^^
It's difficult to find an explanation for this. My personal interpretation, without any further substantiation is that Germans are deep down very unrest, uneasy, and troubled souls. To cope with this inner unrest we strive to order the world around us instead. Once order is removed and not to be restored this inner chaos quickly emerges to the surface. Queuing is just the most transparent example for this theory. The German's love for authority and rules are others.
I don't know if you can trace this back to the Ancient Romans necessarily, but at least inner unrest is a dominant theme in German high literature.
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I think it has just something to do with very strong individualism.
Kohl once said (i read this a long time ago and i'm translating it, i hope i get it right):
The biggest achievement (or consequence after WW2) of the Germans probably is, that they no longer feel proud of germanies achievments but for the things they achieve themselves.
I think this is quite true for many european countries and could probably play into things like "cueing". The "greater good" is not the primary interest oft he people, your own "good" is your primary interest. Sometimes this mentality fires back, sometimes it has advantages.
Thats probably also why many europeans think the american patriotism you often see is kinda crazy  .
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EPT
