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*Ahem* Before I begin any of this blog keep in mind this is 100% an opinion post. Anything said after this point should be taken with a grain of salt as these are my OPINIONS and nothing more. If you can't handle a small dose of truth and a wake-up call, stop reading right now. This is out of pure concern and love for the foreign BW scene that I write this.
(TL:DR)<-- shortcut for skipping the "recap" portion and going straight to the current issues.
The Height of iCCup Before I begin the long road of tearing the current scene a new one, lets look back at the heights of iCCup. Mostly, this is before SC2 came out and screwed everything up.
I wasn't around for most of it, but anybody remember when 2-3k people used to be online at any given time of day? You could always find games. The early season was what anybody expected, chaos, but that was ok! You could get on after 3-4 weeks of it settling down and start figuring out where you fit in in the new season! Clans were more active than ever, and the gaming lifestyle was looking pretty bright. Then Activision-Blizzard released the game we came to call, "Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty".
This game did more damage to the scene than we initially realized. Almost immediately after its release, foreign communities everywhere flocked to its shiny graphics, revamped system, and legalized hacks (multi-hack, command-hack, statues for temporary maphack, rally-hacks, auto-mining, auto-gas, and more). This made the game very appealing as it greatly lowered the skill bar necessary to become one of the "greats". Soon people everywhere were streaming it, playing it, and it began to take over the phenomenon that Starcraft: Brood War had laid out.
The Attempted Recovery
Many started spouting "BW is dead!", "SC2 is going to completely replace it!", and other such ignorant comments as I've come to expect from children and people of lesser intelligence. The BW scene was far from dead, but it was, in fact, damaged far more than we realized. At first, we claimed "NO! BW is not dead! We shall revive it and cause a second wave to become interested!". We somewhat succeeded in this and more proof of this has shown up as of late since iCCup's average playerbase has become 200-300 greater than it was at its lowest (300-400 online PM my time, 700-800 online in the mornings now to 500-600 PM and 1000-1200 AM). I, myself, have started to contribute to this "revitalization movement" and intend to continue as long as possible. However, I will now discuss the major issues surrounding our now-damaged scene that we face.
(TL:DR)
The Stat Abuse
Not to badmouth any of the players I mention, as I still have respect for you guys as you are indeed the top foreigners on iCCup right now, but most of these ranks are nothing more than stat-abuse-inflated. This includes several of the Koreans that were on the top 10 this past season. This isn't to say that many of them weren't already high-ranking players, but they used stat abuse to get 1-3 levels higher than they actually are. If you're on this list, just stop doing cheap shit and you wouldn't be here. You have nobody but yourselves to blame.
Just to give you an idea: 1v1 ladder stat abuse accounts sjskahtdlru 369-31 Match List qjxjvmffkdl 242-56 Match List [KidCanada] 145-96 Match List
2v2 ladder stat abuse accounts Belladona 357-33 Match List LRM)Semih 248-36 Match List
I'm not sure what's worse. The fact that these people do these sorts of things, or the fact that they actually get recognition for it. End-of-Season iCCup News Write-up. I blame iccup staff partially for not doing anything against this obvious and blatant spitting at the rules and at sportsmanship in general. No professional sports association would allow this sort of action to go unpunished (or reward it).
Koreans who play seriously on servers like Brainclan, Mapzine, and Fish literally take their own smurfs/stat-abusers and tell them they should go to iCCup if they want to do such things because we're now known as "The n00b Stomping Grounds". Personally, I find this title a bit insulting, but as I've clearly shown, we've brought it upon ourselves. If nobody takes iCCup with any degree of seriousness, how are we supposed to mount any sort of resurgence if the only server that hosts good players is considered a complete and utter joke?
Well that's great, you whistle-blowing prick. What do you want us to do about it?
Simple. Crack down on this sort of behavior and dammit, get our Koreans back. I know it was frustrating as hell to have the top 200 being 197 Koreans but you know what? I liked having B-teamers, semi-pros, and active progamers visiting and playing on iCCup. Even Nal_Ra famously played on iCCup for a while during the filming of his TV Show, "Oldboy"! It meant there was some real difficulty to the server. All but perhaps 5-10 semi-pro/B-team Koreans are gone from the server. iCCup's level of competition has suffered greatly because of the lack of higher level players existing.
That being said, I want the BW scene to thrive for a long time. Who cares if its in WCG or not. I'll keep watching Proleague and MSL/OSL for as long as they exist. If you have any love for the scene, or any respect for progaming as a whole, this blog should hit some buttons for you. Any opposed to the things I've said might as well just say "fuck the scene, fuck my fanbase, and fuck sportsmanship".
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With the guide that was posted about playing on Brain/Fish, I don't ever see myself going back to iccup to be honest, 40000 people on fish at all times is hard to beat...
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On February 27 2011 02:47 Megaliskuu wrote: With the guide that was posted about playing on Brain/Fish, I don't ever see myself going back to iccup to be honest, 40000 people on fish at all times is hard to beat...
Seriously???
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On February 27 2011 02:47 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:47 Megaliskuu wrote: With the guide that was posted about playing on Brain/Fish, I don't ever see myself going back to iccup to be honest, 40000 people on fish at all times is hard to beat... Seriously???
Well Brain is down atm so everyone is on fish, but yeah yesterday there was 40k people during kor hours.
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Australia7069 Posts
the match list is insane. Every refresh brings up like 40 more games and they all fill INSTANTLY. Its kinda hard to make it over the language barrier and the skill levels until u get into ladder are pretty random. but its pretty awesome. I'll probably still play iccup tho because i'm a scardeycat
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How are any of those people you listed stat abusers. A) I didn't realize that playing a re was stat abusing. B) You do realize that at any given point in time theres < 10 people in the ladder a-b channel? Who else are they going to play? Even when iccup was at its height, a- and b ranked always played against each other. This isn't something new, its just the fact that there aren't enough players to play against. and there's even a set limit of games that a and b players can play against each other, which none of those players have broken. I would assume as an iccup admin you would know them. Rules--- 15 Games between B- and B+ A- and Olympic — No more than 1200 points gained from 1 player.
They don't even break the limit for d- to d games which is 6 games.
Stat abusing is sitting there and playing against yourself on a diff computer or a friend and getting free points, which this isn't.
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Dude i watched the match list of the top Koreans and you have no idea lol. They are playing B and B- because there are too few A and A- ( 18 ) ...
When you get only +13pts for playing a B- i don't think it is abusing. If you lose you lose like 250 or something.
Also what's wrong with Kid[Canada] match list ? He played a couple of D players for 13pts but all his other games are vs B-/B/B+.
You are seriously making a blog because of 4 games vs D players for 50 points ?
Also i'm laughing so hard at "bring the Koreans back" i mean what the Iccup team can do ? They can't force people to play on their server. The only thing they could do is to add proleague maps to the ladder faster.
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On February 27 2011 03:12 guMmiwormz wrote: How are any of those people you listed stat abusers. A) I didn't realize that playing a re was stat abusing. B) You do realize that at any given point in time theres < 10 people in the ladder a-b channel? Who else are they going to play? Even when iccup was at its height, a- and b ranked always played against each other. This isn't something new, its just the fact that there aren't enough players to play against. and there's even a set limit of games that a and b players can play against each other, which none of those players have broken. I would assume as an iccup admin you would know them. Rules--- 15 Games between B- and B+ A- and Olympic — No more than 1200 points gained from 1 player.
They don't even break the limit for d- to d games which is 6 games.
Stat abusing is sitting there and playing against yourself on a diff computer or a friend and getting free points, which this isn't.
I'm glad someone mentioned this, it really confused me in the main post.
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Hi, iccup head admin here. Some points I'd like to address: First off, I'm not sure how you can label yourself as an admin. You were given an account to do castings for us, but I've seen 0 result thus far. Second, due to the dwindling number of a-b players, people who are dedicated towards reaching that high rank must grind through d-c opponents. Did they dodge a-b teams? No. Did they break any of our rules? No. Yet the fact that their hard work is met with ignorant criticism bothers me a lot. These players get 13 points for winning a game, and lose 280 if they lose. Next point: While koreans are beneficial to iccup, it's only natural that they reside on a server that is a) closer to them, b) is full of people who speak their own language, and c) have players that are physically close to them, therefore greatly reducing lag. I mean no insult to you, but I think you may underestimate the difference between a game on high latency and a game on low latency. iCCup does not and can not offer any sort of perks to these players past concrete abuse control, so it is unrealistic to expect them to return. Rather, our efforts should be focused on maintaining us as the greatest foreigner sc server.
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On February 27 2011 03:12 guMmiwormz wrote: How are any of those people you listed stat abusers. A) I didn't realize that playing a re was stat abusing. B) You do realize that at any given point in time theres < 10 people in the ladder a-b channel? Who else are they going to play? Even when iccup was at its height, a- and b ranked always played against each other. This isn't something new, its just the fact that there aren't enough players to play against.
Bs playing against Cs and Ds is stat abuse. Playing 10 "re"s in a row isn't necessarily stat abuse but come on. If you were smart enough to read the actual links, you'd see that I didn't include a lot of the players who were B+ vs B-, etc. I only included ones that played mass games with people more than 2-3 ranks below them.
Boblion wrote: Also what's wrong with Kid[Canada] match list ? He played a couple of D players for 13pts but all his other games are vs B-/B/B+.
You are seriously making a blog because of 4 games vs D players for 50 points ?
Also i'm laughing so hard at "bring the Koreans back" i mean what the Iccup can do ? They can't force people to play or their server. The only thing they could do is to add proleague maps to the ladder faster.
Look past the first page. He played a lot of matches vs Cs on that page too. Learn to be more thorough.
You also don't understand even a little bit of why Koreans left. Its because iCCup is in fact a joke to them. Back when we cracked down harder, they were more willing to give iCCup a shot. Also the anti-Korean atmosphere there isn't helping.
Deus aka iCCup.nOoNe First off, I'm not sure how you can label yourself as an admin. You were given an account to do castings for us, but I've seen 0 result thus far. Second, due to the dwindling number of a-b players, people who are dedicated towards reaching that high rank must grind through d-c opponents.
First off, you must not watch my stream. I've been casting almost every day. I'm easily online as much as Sayle. I, however, am never invited or asked to do any other castings even though I am perfectly willing to do so. Its not a lack of effort on my part in the least.
Second, the answer to your "dwindling numbers" is simple. Attract more. The whole anti-Korean bullshit on things like ISL and whatnot are what keep Koreans from wanting to play there; NOT the ping or the distance. If what you said was true, why did Koreans USED to massgame there and not anymore? Explain that please. Nobody has to mass games at B ranks vs D/C just so they feel fuzzy with a fake A-/A. Any respectable player would be satisfied just being at the top.
I know that you love throwing around your shiny new head admin title and I know you're proud of iCCup, but if there weren't obvious problems, this blog wouldn't exist. There's always room for improvement. I didn't flat-out insult anybody, just pointed out some issues that even others have posted on our iCCup forums about but got no action. If I didn't like iCCup and want to see it flourish, I wouldn't have contributed to ISL, I wouldn't have made this blog, and I certainly wouldn't be keeping up with it.
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5 / 5 , wow I didn't realize all these people were stat abusers... why aren't they banned on iCCup for abusing? Awesome read and man you really helped me to see the light
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[B]On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: I didn't flat-out insult anybody
You insulted quite a few people in your replies. Also, you are very wrong about the stat abusing. i would also suggest maybe taking a chill pill, it's just Starcraft who cares where they are playing it as long as they are playing it.
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Kidcanada plays no d players in 7 pages of matches, except one who he loses to. and once again, what everyone has been saying, there are very little players to play against in the a + b range. none of the players are intentionally looking to play people lower then their rank just to get "easy" wins.
everything your saying about "stat abusing" is pretty wrong.
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On February 27 2011 04:11 7000bitches wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: I didn't flat-out insult anybody You insulted quite a few people in your replies. Also, you are very wrong about the stat abusing. i would also suggest maybe taking a chill pill, it's just Starcraft who cares where they are playing it as long as they are playing it.
If telling the truth is insulting, then fine I'm about to insult a lot more people in the coming years. I would also recommend you take a chill pill since I stated at the very beginning its an opinion blog.
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On February 27 2011 04:23 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 04:11 7000bitches wrote:[B]On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: I didn't flat-out insult anybody You insulted quite a few people in your replies. Also, you are very wrong about the stat abusing. i would also suggest maybe taking a chill pill, it's just Starcraft who cares where they are playing it as long as they are playing it. If telling the truth is insulting, then fine I'm about to insult a lot more people in the coming years. I would also recommend you take a chill pill since I stated at the very beginning its an opinion blog.
Well your goal to just stir up a shitstorm for no reason is becoming more and more apparent, so i'm not going to reply after this.
But I would like to say that whatever point you are trying to make is being completely lost in your mightier than thou tone of talking. Try some respect it goes a long way.
Have a good one.
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I'm tempted to go back but its been a month. No sc2 since beta, no bw for a month. I've been so productive it hurts to go back, but it hurts to know noobs are getting away with bullshit I would punish them for. haha.
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On February 27 2011 04:23 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 04:11 7000bitches wrote:On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: I didn't flat-out insult anybody You insulted quite a few people in your replies. Also, you are very wrong about the stat abusing. i would also suggest maybe taking a chill pill, it's just Starcraft who cares where they are playing it as long as they are playing it. If telling the truth is insulting, then fine I'm about to insult a lot more people in the coming years. I would also recommend you take a chill pill since I stated at the very beginning its an opinion blog. You are not telling the truth, you are just talking shit.
On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote:
Boblion wrote: Also what's wrong with Kid[Canada] match list ? He played a couple of D players for 13pts but all his other games are vs B-/B/B+.
You are seriously making a blog because of 4 games vs D players for 50 points ?
Also i'm laughing so hard at "bring the Koreans back" i mean what the Iccup can do ? They can't force people to play or their server. The only thing they could do is to add proleague maps to the ladder faster.
Look past the first page. He played a lot of matches vs Cs on that page too. Learn to be more thorough.
Well he was barely above B and he played some C, C+ B- and B and he also lost 200 points vs a D+ What's your problem man ? Maybe he was just playing the people available in the channel ?
[B]On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: You also don't understand even a little bit of why Koreans left. Its because iCCup is in fact a joke to them. Back when we cracked down harder, they were more willing to give iCCup a shot. Also the anti-Korean atmosphere there isn't helping.
Koreans left because the Iccup team was late to update the map pool with the new proleague maps, that's the only reason.
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On February 27 2011 04:26 7000bitches wrote: Well your goal to just stir up a shitstorm for no reason is becoming more and more apparent, so i'm not going to reply after this.
But I would like to say that whatever point you are trying to make is being completely lost in your mightier than thou tone of talking. Try some respect it goes a long way.
Have a good one.
You're not a bad troll, but sorry I'm kind of immune to trolling. Whatever you're saying is lost in the fact you don't research or read. An American trying to lecture a Korean about "respect". How "lol".
Boblion wrote: You are not telling the truth, you are just talking shit.
gg :/ Trolling ends when you take it personally.
Boblion wrote: Koreans left because the Iccup team was late to update the map pool with the new proleague maps, that's the only reason.
You, sir, are not qualified to speak on Koreans since you apparently don't stay active in the Korean private server scene.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 27 2011 03:55 DeuS wrote: Second, due to the dwindling number of a-b players, people who are dedicated towards reaching that high rank must grind through d-c opponents. I always say iccup shouldn't reset scores at new season, just halve them or something. Higher level players playing on D rank scare away newbies and the lack of a semi-persistent score is really bad for A/B players.
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[KidCanada] worked hard for his A- rank and he doesn't stat abuse. Some of those C people are actually B's from previous seasons (some made B currently), or just smurfing. I only see a few D's w/ one of them beating him. Korean players at any rank are no joke.
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On February 27 2011 04:40 sCCrooked wrote:gg :/ Trolling ends when you take it personally. You mean your are trolling ?
On February 27 2011 04:40 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +Boblion wrote: Koreans left because the Iccup team was late to update the map pool with the new proleague maps, that's the only reason. You, sir, are not qualified to speak on Koreans since you apparently don't stay active in the Korean private server scene. And what are your qualifications to talk about the seasons 5-15 of Iccup where several Koreans pros, top amateurs and former pros played ? Coincidently all the pros disappeared when Iccup failed to update the map pool. Also all the guys you quoted in the OP wouldn't have been DQ during the previous seasons so idk why you are saying that the pros left because of people abusing the ladder or something like that. They don't care anyway they are just here to practise anonymously lol. Since they couldn't play on the new maps they just went back to Brain and Fish.
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On February 27 2011 04:52 Kororo wrote: [KidCanada] worked hard for his A- rank and he doesn't stat abuse. Some of those C people are actually B's from previous seasons (some made B currently), or just smurfing. I only see a few D's w/ one of them beating him. Korean players at any rank are no joke. Yeah I've watched a lot of KidCanada and he is an amazing player that is truly skilled. I don't think he is undeserved of A rank
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rofl people arnt going to "attract more koreans" when laddering, they want games asap and if that means playing someone a couple ranks lower because there arnt any of your own rank around, 90% of people will gladly do that. If you dont have a choice in the matter its obviously not "stat abuse". In fact i think these people deserve MORE recognition because it takes much longer to rank up when the player pool is reduced and you only get a few points per win.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: First off, you must not watch my stream. I've been casting almost every day. I'm easily online as much as Sayle. I, however, am never invited or asked to do any other castings even though I am perfectly willing to do so. Its not a lack of effort on my part in the least.
Um...then maybe ask us if you can cast something? Also, I'm on TL constantly and I don't recall seeing your stream on more than a couple of times even though I regularly check for BW streamers. And why not just organize an event yourself? You don't have to do everything in association with ICCup. The Chronicles of KasPra show, for example, was just something I came up with when KasPra asked me if he could do a joint event with me. If you're really that motivated, I'm sure you can think of something.
On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: Second, the answer to your "dwindling numbers" is simple. Attract more. The whole anti-Korean bullshit on things like ISL and whatnot are what keep Koreans from wanting to play there; NOT the ping or the distance. If what you said was true, why did Koreans USED to massgame there and not anymore? Explain that please. Nobody has to mass games at B ranks vs D/C just so they feel fuzzy with a fake A-/A. Any respectable player would be satisfied just being at the top.
What exactly is anti-Korean about ICCup? The only example you gave is the ISL, which is supposed to be a foreigner event like the TSL was. Other than that, I don't see how ICCup treats Koreans any differently than anyone else?
On February 27 2011 04:08 sCCrooked wrote: I know that you love throwing around your shiny new head admin title and I know you're proud of iCCup, but if there weren't obvious problems, this blog wouldn't exist. There's always room for improvement. I didn't flat-out insult anybody, just pointed out some issues that even others have posted on our iCCup forums about but got no action. If I didn't like iCCup and want to see it flourish, I wouldn't have contributed to ISL, I wouldn't have made this blog, and I certainly wouldn't be keeping up with it.
That first line seems pretty insulting to me...
Anyway, it seems like the majority of people here agree with ICCup policy and don't see those people as stat abusers as you claim, so I don't think there's really a problem there. Just curious, what exactly have you contributed to ISL?
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So, quick question. When you get up to A in 2:2 and there's only a few people at that level, what are you suppose to do? Wait 4 hours for 1 game? Or play games at the D/C level?
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honestly most of the people involved in iccup just seem interested in making it some kind of insulated clique
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On February 27 2011 05:29 qdenser wrote: honestly most of the people involved in iccup just seem interested in making it some kind of insulated clique
that's a neat opinion i would love to hear you talk more about it.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
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You just accused bella/semih of stat abusing. That is actually hilarious imo.
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If you're an iCCup admin why didn't you bring up the stat abusers and such in the admin forums where we could have took care of them?
I've forwarded this to YelloAnt, rest assured if those guys are abusing stats, they are gone.
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I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post
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On February 27 2011 06:03 puppykiller wrote: I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post
He was temp banned for being a dick later on in the post.
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Hello.
First of all I consider myself a very humble player after all I've been through in the time I have playing SC:BW, but with people like you I have no respect at all, and you're exactly the kind of people that I laugh at when I make them reset for stomping them so many times.
I took 3 months (1 Season) In reaching my first A-, and the next one I took my first A+ being helped and coached by ESC.babo and NaW-Kyopo. After that I joined LRM), won my ICC CL match against ToT and joined ToT (look for the news in www.tot-gaming.com), then I got kicked for having an awful behavior during a CW and got hired by ESC, and then joined mousesports along with the rest, being one of the only 2 BW players EVER in being rewarded for playing 2v2 (along with Member)
So... I'll give you a couple facts now, and I'm sorry if I sound cocky here but someone needs to put you in your place: I'm the best zerg that has ever played 2v2 now, and feel free to call all the other top zergs that I RESPECT A LOT to play against me, and I'll be glad to save a whole replay pack once again against them (XiaOzI, capi, westside, yoon, babo & core) so you can actually see a quality game, not the bullshit that you've seen apparently.
2v2 is full of trash talkers, and it's because of the "ally factor". I'll explain myself: In 1v1 there's nobody to blame but you when you lose, so if you keep losing it's clearly obvious you're not a good player. In 2v2 you have an ally, that means even if you're bad as hell you can always blame someone for your mistakes to keep your sad fake reputation in the eyes of the people who don't know anything about the team play mode. Insult everyone, act cocky, get A- and run your mouth and I guarantee you that you'll become a fake God. I have decided to stop talking in public chats and just care about my friends and playing because of that fact, because nobody of the good players were bad mannered and now you can barely find them playing for fun, because they're (we're) tired of people like you, so they just play Asia or Brainclan with friends.
It's not news what you've posted here calling me an abuser; check this out: http://www.iccup.com/community/thread/152083.html
After that I invite you to look at the following screenshots and to recheck my matchlist (AND my other id Saseza) how badly I bashed him even with my Olympic rank for +65/-200 game. (He resufed to play me again) Pack of SS: http://img192.imageshack.us/g/r8saddodgex29.jpg/ You can clearly watch him dodging me being above A- for +195 & +162 games, and playing for +65 against other people.
Now... I invite you to watch ICC CL LRM matches... · 2-0 vs IFU, the 2 players that played us were the best possible team that you can find nowdays playing a lot, and they got a decent stats of 60-6 A and 65-7 A- with no game against me... Still respect them, they have the best team play you can find now between the active players.
· 2-0 vs Nb, Nb.Lossilohi holding the #7 of the ladder with 11400 points A ranking and allying an ex Nb.eXo, who had A- account and I dropped him back to B+ 8600 (Check his matchlist). Weird... Lossilohi just played vs me 1 game that he lost vs me and Member... Still respect him, he's a decent player and were a legend in 1v1.
Also... I'd like to mention a funny fact: 2 of my 4 allies got A+ (nizzy and LRM)Semih, watch their matchlist besides the +13 with me), babol got A- 10000 points 0 loss with me (watch z(z / babol matchlist) and Member didn't want to get olympic with me because he got S+ top#1 in brainclan server (Feel free to ask him whenever you want who's the best zerg in 2v2 that he has ever played with), we got #1 the last season I played where you can see my A- stats, downgrading Yan from A+ 12800 to A 11700 or something and killing capi account from A to A- when he was allying Yan and Drewbie (in account "BAD"), I'm sure many people old enough in ICCup 2v2 will be glad to show you some replays of me against them.
Apparently avoiding playing vs me it's not being an abuser... but when I PLAY EVERYONE I'M ABUSING ^^... I'll be playing couple of games the next season too probably, I need someone like you and R8 who care about me a lot to get me games, because it's really frustrating when nobody wants to play you, but they have enough time to be making posts about you.
Best regards to everyone, and I'm still happy that there are more people that respect good players and cheer for BW than stupid people like you, who could barely understand a BW concept ever.
People who want to practice 2v2 and become better to have more fun feel free to PM me through ICCup website whenever you guys want, I'm always free to help and have fun with people who are respectful and nice.
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The brazilian/chilean/immortal has spoken
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I personally don't think that sC.Crooked should of been temp banned, the guy was simply stating his opinion and some well known facts, I agree it does kind of suck that not as many players on iCCup at this current time, but unfortunately I think he is nearly 100% correct about why he is saying Korean players are in a decline on iCCup. I don't think ISL or accused stat abusers is why Korean's left iCCup though, I think it's just because a vast majority of the good Korean players went back to fish / brain, so when that happened, all of the rest followed, Koreans just want something very simple, and very fast to happen, and they also just want to be around other koreans, so in my opinion it's like a domino effect, the more koreans who leave iCCup, more will follow them, if we can promote iCCup more to korean people then maybe we can get them to come back one by one. Anything is possible. iCCup & BW fighting!
edit : yea i guess you are right, that was kind of rude to say
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Well belladona already spoke out about himself.
What's better is that you call out sjskahtdlru for abuse. He just happens to be Woongjin Progamer NsP_Rudy. Somehow I doubt he is on iccup to bash noobs all day long. Given how few people have a blue rank, let alone a green one; what do you expect an A- player to do, wait an hour or more for games against other green ranked or B/B+ players, or play the available C+/B- guys?
Not much of a choice if you ask me.
What exactly is anti-Korean about ICCup? The only example you gave is the ISL, which is supposed to be a foreigner event like the TSL was. Other than that, I don't see how ICCup treats Koreans any differently than anyone else?
This may well be a legitimate concern. Dodging KR is pretty common in my experence, I run into tons of people who say they just don't play vs people with KR tag or do their best to avoid it. Perhaps this lessens at the blue and green ranks, but I don't really have any idea; though I recall many people taking flak for it in the TSL ladder stages.
I personally don't think that sC.Crooked should of been temp banned, the guy was simply stating his opinion and some well known facts, I agree it does kind of suck that not as many players on iCCup at this current time, but unfortunately I think he is nearly 100% correct about why he is saying Korean players are in a decline on iCCup.
He wasn't banned for that, the original post was fine, even if I disagree with parts, but for comments like these, which are nothing but insults or incredibly condescending tone.
know that you love throwing around your shiny new head admin title and I know you're proud of iCCup, but if there weren't obvious problems, this blog wouldn't exist.
You're not a bad troll, but sorry I'm kind of immune to trolling. Whatever you're saying is lost in the fact you don't research or read. An American trying to lecture a Korean about "respect". How "lol".
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I do miss koreans and I'm happy I had the chance to play with a progamer (NsP_Rudy). Even though I disagree with OP I believe it was awsome that we (foreigners) had the chance to play b teamers and progamers. Remember all the pro's on TSL 2 ladder reppacks (Idra calling July a fag lol)
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:26 L_Master wrote: This may well be a legitimate concern. Dodging KR is pretty common in my experence, I run into tons of people who say they just don't play vs people with KR tag or do their best to avoid it. Perhaps this lessens at the blue and green ranks, but I don't really have any idea; though I recall many people taking flak for it in the TSL ladder stages.
So what exactly are ICCup admins supposed to do about people dodging Koreans?
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I hardly see how that any of those accounts are stat abusing. Even at the D-C level, it is somewhat hard to get games. I've regamed quite a few people without even trying, whereas in the past, this almost never happened. I imagine things are even more sparse at the top.
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On February 27 2011 06:49 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 06:26 L_Master wrote: This may well be a legitimate concern. Dodging KR is pretty common in my experence, I run into tons of people who say they just don't play vs people with KR tag or do their best to avoid it. Perhaps this lessens at the blue and green ranks, but I don't really have any idea; though I recall many people taking flak for it in the TSL ladder stages.
So what exactly are ICCup admins supposed to do about people dodging Koreans?
Mandate a 50% ration must be vs KR. In all seriousness though this is no way a criticism of the work you guys over at ICCup have done, which has been downright outstanding. Many thanks for the countless hours you guys put in to keep the server great, and all the new community events that are being organized.
I bring up the Korean point simply because it might impact why more Koreans are going over to Brain/Fish. If its already a bit of a pain to find games at C/B/A ranks, and they are getting dodged on top of that it probably doesn't do much for making them want to stay at ICCup. Not sure there is much ICCup can do about that though.
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So what exactly are ICCup admins supposed to do about people dodging Koreans?
no offense Sayle but I remember when iCCup was like before there was the country tags, I think if there was no country tags of the player you are about to play, then people wouldn't be able to dodge koreans, that was probably a better system anyways IMO. It was a lot harder for people to dodge koreans this way ^_^
edit : but you iccup admins still do an amazing job regardless, still amazing system, but I think without the country tag it makes more sense, as soon as I saw that back when it first came out, I was like oh god now everyone is going to dodge KR, but I actually like playing vs KR more because they are generally more gm, and play super standard, so my cheese works vs them a lot. :-P
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How is it wrong to play lower ranked people anyway... You get so little points for it, could lose to a smurf too and lose a ton. If you still feel that it gives too many points for too little skill shown, how the fuck is that the players fault? Then it's just bad design on the ladders point system. If you play according to every rule except some bullshit morals on picking opponents you hold important, how is that abusing again?
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people who dodge KR are always going to be bad. i remember when i used to play bw a few years ago, i loved playing during korean times because thats when practiced mattered. you really got to see the holes in your play. koreans are ruthless for abusing timings/low apm players. speaking of that, i cant stand how sc2 has a region lock. i really want to play with koreans
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On February 27 2011 08:12 apalemorning wrote:people who dodge KR are always going to be bad. i remember when i used to play bw a few years ago, i loved playing during korean times because thats when practiced mattered. you really got to see the holes in your play. koreans are ruthless for abusing timings/low apm players. speaking of that, i cant stand how sc2 has a region lock. i really want to play with koreans
Yep, never understood that either. Seems like for many people their fun is based on how much they win, which I cannot relate to. Winning is nice, but I would much rather lose a hard fought game to a better player, or be ruthlessly crushed by a gosu rather than take a fairly easy win because I am an all around better play.
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Austin10831 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:03 puppykiller wrote: I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post He wasn't temped banned for his original post, he was banned for this post.
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On February 27 2011 08:30 BroOd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 06:03 puppykiller wrote: I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post He wasn't temped banned for his original post, he was banned for this post.
still its weird to take the voice away from someone who wrote something controversail and is getting responded to. Now he cant defend agains the responses.
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I'm going to defend [KidCanada] here and say I do believe he is a legit player. We will be in some odd channel chatting around doing whatever and with no warning at all he will dip out and say "someone good just logged on, gonna go ladder"
I won't comment on the other people but I will say that for the longest time I have felt the 2v2 Ladder on iccup is a joke. I feel the same way about many of the so called "2v2 players" too (not naming names here. ).
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On February 27 2011 09:37 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 08:30 BroOd wrote:On February 27 2011 06:03 puppykiller wrote: I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post He wasn't temped banned for his original post, he was banned for this post. still its weird to take the voice away from someone who wrote something controversail and is getting responded to. Now he cant defend agains the responses. he probably should have thought of that before he raged and started calling people trolls.
edit, also racism.
An American trying to lecture a Korean about "respect". How "lol"
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Croatia9363 Posts
On February 27 2011 09:37 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 08:30 BroOd wrote:On February 27 2011 06:03 puppykiller wrote: I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post He wasn't temped banned for his original post, he was banned for this post. still its weird to take the voice away from someone who wrote something controversail and is getting responded to. Now he cant defend agains the responses. Yeah I agree, Teamliquid should just stop taking the voice away from people by banning them. If they don't ban anyone, then everyone will be able to defend agains the responses. It's a foolproof plan!
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On February 27 2011 09:37 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 08:30 BroOd wrote:On February 27 2011 06:03 puppykiller wrote: I don't like that this person gets temp banned for this post He wasn't temped banned for his original post, he was banned for this post. still its weird to take the voice away from someone who wrote something controversail and is getting responded to. Now he cant defend agains the responses.
it's good to have his side of opinion addressed to others, but of cause if he integrated that with insulting/bashing, then he'll deserved to be banned.
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On February 27 2011 06:07 Belladona wrote: babol got A- 10000 points 0 loss with me (watch z(z / babol matchlist)
guess who gave him his first lose?!!? <--- this guy!! lol ^_^
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