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Hi there,
So, I've recently decided to diversify my playing. Some of you might remember me as that one-base player who made a few posts here and there. I still enjoy and think highly of one-base play, but it's especially hard to win a Bo3 if it's all you know and considering the recent trend of completely fucked up huge maps that won't allow for anything but a fast expansion, I've decided to go with the flow. The times they are a changin', and I intend to change with them!
Now, I've always played a macro-heavy TvT, so I'm not unfamiliar with the stuff, but I'm still pretty bad at it. So, quite a few attempts at macro left me around 200 points poorer (now around 3050 master) but I have honestly enjoyed (most) of the games. One-basing every game gets kind of stale, so I'm glad I'm diversifying.
I couldn't macro TvP if my life depended on it. I just died to some two-base colossus timing push if I tried to take 2-3 bases. But now I've been winning most of my TvPs. I've played around with tank/bunker/turret lines and just dropping everywhere while expanding safely and it's been a lot of fun. I still struggle against colossi, though, and I believe they are too strong at the moment. I've been opening with 2rax expo with a stim timing attack then turtling up and taking a third, going MMM/tanks.
TvT, like I mentioned, is my most familiar macro matchup. However, I enjoy not making any tanks. 1rax FE into mass MMM and expanding like crazy is my game. Seems to work well except on some maps, but I'm still working on it.
TvZ has always been my hardest matchup, by far. I couldn't win with all-ins, and I sure as hell can't win with macro. I've been trying various 2rax pressure into expo. Usually I don't do enough damage with my early aggression, but if I do I just get all-inned and lose, despite my economical advantage. I've lost to roach/baneling all-in. When I've been able to have a solid barracks-wall, I've lost to nydus worm all-in etc. etc.
The few times it becomes an actual macro game, I just get outmacroed something ridiculous. The other matchups are much easier for me, because my opponent has the same economic potential as I do. But I feel like if I just let the Zerg breathe for one single moment he all of a sudden has four times my workers and twice the amount of bases. I've tried marine/tank, I've tried mech, and most recently I've been trying MM/blufeflame hellions. I figure with micro the blueflames should do enough damage to lings/banes that my MM can clean up, but so far I've still just gotten outmassed and demolished.
I never could win TvZ, and I still feel as lost as ever before, sadly. I guess I just need to harass better and get better timing attacks. I've seen Terrans do immense damage with early timing attacks, but whenever I try something similar I get surrounded by five times the units I have and then he takes 50 bases and laughs at me. The worst part is the incredible indignation every single Zerg seems to feel. I often see them whine early on, going on about how Zerg sucks and how Terran is the freewin race. I never see a 'gg' the few times I win and often get flamed after the game for no other reason then the perceived imbalance every single Zerg so righteously thinks he overcomes. This really, really frustrates me since, as you know by now, TvZ is my worst matchup by far. Whenever I respond to their whines by saying I feel Zerg is the strongest race, or that I have problems with TvZ, well, it really gets them going on and on about why I'm wrong, lol.
Just felt like sharing my macro highs and lows. Gonna keep trying and diversifying my play. It never hurts to know a plethora of builds and strategies, right?
 
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I like to implement heavy Viking play vs Zerg. You'll just have to be careful with roaches, mutas, and ultralisks. Vikings fare well vs most everything else. Give it a shot. I believe vikings' versatility of ground mode is the most underused ability in the game.
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Hey man, I understand your plight. I play Toss and feel like I can't win against both Terran and Zerg a lot of the time. I guess I'm a tad different since the source of my frustration is that I think that PvT at least LOOKS fine in high level games and PvZ seems Protoss favored... I just don't play well enough. But I know how it feels to feel helpless even when you "should" be winning.
They're going to get a little weaker with the big maps but you should definitely work on getting a PERFECT 2rax expand into 4rax stim timing push down. Just do nothing but that, every map, every game against zerg and ruthlessly analyze your replays until you have the build mastered. Find a pro replay of this or something like it happening and practice until you can play it EXACTLY like the pro every single time. Those stim timing pushes are sooo strong and you will win a stupid amount of games just doing them. They're not even that hard to execute, just look at NEXLiveForever.
Btw the cool thing about 2raxing is that since you sacrifice practically nothing to do it(it just delays your orbital right?) you don't actually need to deal substantial damage with it. Just don't get greedy, turn around when it looks like he's making enough lings, and be done with it. After all your purpose isn't to go in there and fuck him up it's to go in there and get him to do anything but make drones.
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1base all-in to masters 3500+
try that with other races.
edit: you're complaining that the maps are getting too big and that your 1base all-ins arent working anymore.
why isnt it working?
because people are GETTING GOOD with the times and are countering it.
so, as an arrogant person as you suggested you are, you want the maps to be smaller? because the world revolves around you?
get good or go home. the basics of any game is still there. you either go with the times or fall behind.
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On February 06 2011 11:16 MicroTastiC wrote:
1base all-in to masters 3500+
try that with other races.
edit: you're complaining that the maps are getting too big and that your 1base all-ins arent working anymore.
why isnt it working?
because people are GETTING GOOD with the times and are countering it.
so, as an arrogant person as you suggested you are, you want the maps to be smaller? because the world revolves around you?
get good or go home. the basics of any game is still there. you either go with the times or fall behind.
It's as if you didn't even read my blog post at all.
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Your comments about Zergs whining is kind of funny because I played you tonight and you left the game with something like 'I hate this fucking race'.
You also tried your MM hellion build and I'm sorry, but that's just a bad idea. Any marine-heavy composition vs Z needs something to deal with banelings and hellions just won't do the trick, especially once roaches are up. You were also extremely late on saturating your natural.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with marine tank, if you're getting demolished with that composition, you're doing something wrong. Judging from playing you, I'd guess it's mediocre macro and too little harassment.
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I find it surprising you have difficulty with terran macro. Not trying to regurgitate the stereotype, but after getting comfortable with all three races, I find terran is by far the easiest race to macro with. Im not sure if its the resourcing capability, or the strength of their units, but its ridiculously easy to go 5rax off 1 base and then expand as needed and still completely harass your opponent into submission.
Consider OC orientated builds, where you build extra command centers for mules, and cut back on your total earlygame SCV count.
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On February 06 2011 11:49 Orome wrote:
Your comments about Zergs whining is kind of funny because I played you tonight and you left the game with something like 'I hate this fucking race'.
You also tried your MM hellion build and I'm sorry, but that's just a bad idea. Any marine-heavy composition vs Z needs something to deal with banelings and hellions just won't do the trick, especially once roaches are up. You were also extremely late on saturating your natural.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with marine tank, if you're getting demolished with that composition, you're doing something wrong. Judging from playing you, I'd guess it's mediocre macro and too little harassment.
Bnet decided I should meet about 15 Zergs in a row. You were one of the last, in a string of losses, so yeah I was pretty pissed off at that point and I apologize. Also I believe it was on scrap station and that map makes me want to puke, so I wasn't very happy after that, lol.
My idea is that hellions can kill banes/lings with some nice micro along with MMM. But I think timing is crucial. But in theory blueflame hellions should do a lot of damage against banes/lings.
Edit: and the biggest issue I have with marine/tank is how incredibly vulnerable I feel. One small mistake or one moment of not paying attention and 1-2 banelings can destroy my army. I'm bad at splitting marines in big fights and I honestly don't see how the pros can win with it, even though I've seen it done a lot. I'd prefer something less volatile.
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Haha, it's absolutely no problem, I just thought it was funny.
I still think hellion MM is way inferior to standard marine tank though. In our game, I didn't even scout it until you moved out with like 10 hellions and I still managed to hold it off (granted I was pretty ahead at that point and Scrap isn't exactly easy for T) with just mutaling baneling. If it gets scouted, Z's just going to make a handful of roaches and I really don't think your army has enough muscle to break the Z.
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And yeah it was the game where you didn't rally the second rax. :p
I think I could've held it off anyway, but it definitely didn't help lol.
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Well wasn't that the game where I opened 2rax but only rallied one of the rax to your base? It was pretty much 'gg' after that really. I always play poorly when I'm frustrated, I guess.
Anyway, in theory I could send 1-2 hellions to his expansion(s) and try to snipe some drones while pressuring with MM/hellions at the front. But in the end it would lose straight up to pure roach, I suppose. One game I lost to roach/broodlord, as silly as it might sound. I think I just don't have a good plan or follow-up beyond "2rax, expand, make some MM with stim and timing push, then make MM/blueflame and timing push." Maybe I should transition into tank/thor/marine or something and keep harassing with blueflames.
Edit: or Maybe try to make it more of an all-in and bring all my SCVs etc.
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I really think macro should be your biggest concern right now. I remember scouting your expansion timing with my overlord and being completely confused that you only had about 6 scvs + mules mining from your natural, about 2 minutes after you could have gotten your natural up and running.
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On February 06 2011 12:00 Starshaped wrote:
Edit: and the biggest issue I have with marine/tank is how incredibly vulnerable I feel. One small mistake or one moment of not paying attention and 1-2 banelings can destroy my army. I'm bad at splitting marines in big fights and I honestly don't see how the pros can win with it, even though I've seen it done a lot. I'd prefer something less volatile.
Just stim and run away(preferably as much "towards" your tanks as possible") when you see the banelings rolling in.
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Well I wouldn't use that game as a standard, to be honest. I played awfully and was frustrated and I'd just like to forget it :D
My macro, however, is a lot worse in TvZ than the other matchups, for some reason. I think it's because I'm a lot less confident against Zerg and always incredibly nervous about banelings or mutalisks or the thought of him making 50 drones in 2 seconds or whatever. Zerg just scares me =(
Edit @Turgid
I know the general idea behind it but I can never get it to work for me =S.
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On February 06 2011 11:16 MicroTastiC wrote:
1base all-in to masters 3500+
try that with other races.
edit: you're complaining that the maps are getting too big and that your 1base all-ins arent working anymore.
why isnt it working?
because people are GETTING GOOD with the times and are countering it.
so, as an arrogant person as you suggested you are, you want the maps to be smaller? because the world revolves around you?
get good or go home. the basics of any game is still there. you either go with the times or fall behind.
uh, reading comprehension fail?
on topic, I also have trouble vs. zerg and can totally relate to the whole if you let them breath for more than a minute or two they have 100 drones and 4 bases. best of luck, keep up the good fight and keep adapting
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EPT
