EPTedit. shortened my op
this is all i really wanted to say
If you have an opinion on points Paul makes, please post them here, especially if you disagree with anything he is saying. I just want to read what you have to say.
I hope lots of people see this.
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Danka
Peru1018 Posts
edit. shortened my op this is all i really wanted to say If you have an opinion on points Paul makes, please post them here, especially if you disagree with anything he is saying. I just want to read what you have to say. | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9571 Posts
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Danka
Peru1018 Posts
On December 11 2010 04:38 2Pacalypse- wrote: I'm not trying to start any shit, but aren't you from Peru? Sure, what about it? | ||
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zzaaxxsscd
United States626 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen? Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information? Number 3: Why is the hostility directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information? Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering? Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers? so the US gov't screwed up pretty badly...its not the first time OP I don't know what you expect from a forum largely populated by kids and students who play a lot of starcraft | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
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Danka
Peru1018 Posts
On December 11 2010 04:51 zzaaxxsscd wrote: here's the quotes + Show Spoiler + Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen? Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information? Number 3: Why is the hostility directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information? Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering? Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers? so the US gov't screwed up pretty badly...its not the first time OP I don't know what you expect from a forum largely populated by kids and students who play a lot of starcraft Are you saying because someone is 16 or plays starcraft they dont , or shouldnt have to think about this stuff? And what i expect is to find out just what anyone DOES feel about it, whatever that may be. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
wikileaks was doing the right thing by taking a step towards it | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 11 2010 04:51 zzaaxxsscd wrote: Maybe but I don't think they care about the latter two. Aside from the occasional hunter killer group (sick BW reference), most of what goes on is carried out through drones or other remote devices. It may be doing irreparable damage to our reputation in the region (I'm not sure that's true) but it's not directly affecting anyone in the US.Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen? Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information? They're trying to figure that out now, but it's not high level information.Number 3: Why is the hostility directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information? Interesting point. I think this should be directed at politicans more than anyone else.Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering? No, but there's several generations of presidencies to blame for that. Our human networks have been decaying for 30 years, and instead we've transitioned to technology which, while cool, simply isn't good enough yet. What would really piss people off is if they unveiled the number of times they've had a chance to kill Bin Laden and have missed it because the technology based intelligence was too slow or faulty to begin with. It's partially a byproduct of screwups in Somalia and elsewhere around the world (we've had our fair share of human intelligence problems as well, which is why it fell out of favor), but it's still a requirement in 2010. I think the current CIA understands that much better than the CIA from 5 years ago, however. It just takes times to adjust.Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers? Obviously number one, but I don't think that's the important point to take out of this question. I don't think Ron Paul is even highlighting the important part of comparing the Wikileaks stuff to the Pentagon Papers. A few weeks after they were released, the American public didn't give a damn about the Pentagon Papers. The only person that seemed to was Nixon, which led him on the wild goose chase that eventually led to his downfall, but if he had controlled himself and ran a proper PR campaign, nothing would've come of it. I'm not sure that's much different from the Wikileaks situation today.Note: I'm not a 16 year old SC2 kid and this is related to what I study, if that somehow helps my credibility. While I enjoy Ron Paul's candor, I think he's quite ignorant on a wide number of topics. I'm not sure this is one of them, but I suspect that if we had complete transparency as some people wish, the global "condition" would be much worse. Try 100% honesty with your girl friend and see how that turns out. Then make it 53 girl friends, who all speak different languages, and have dated each other's ex's in the past.. | ||
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SeeDLiNg
United States690 Posts
On December 11 2010 04:51 zzaaxxsscd wrote: here's the quotes + Show Spoiler + Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen? Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information? Number 3: Why is the hostility directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information? Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering? Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers? so the US gov't screwed up pretty badly...its not the first time OP I don't know what you expect from a forum largely populated by kids and students who play a lot of starcraft I actually thought this was a forum of mostly ~college level. I suppose the new wave of sc2 kids might have plummeted our average though. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 11 2010 05:23 Jibba wrote: Note: I'm not a 16 year old SC2 kid and this is related to what I study, if that somehow helps my credibility. While I enjoy Ron Paul's candor, I think he's quite ignorant on a wide number of topics. I'm not sure this is one of them, but I suspect that if we had complete transparency as some people wish, the global "condition" would be much worse. Try 100% honesty with your girl friend and see how that turns out. Then make it 53 girl friends, who all speak different languages, and have dated each other's ex's in the past.. I don't favor total transparency, it's not obtainable nor is it desirable, but that doesn't mean we lack transparency. Either way I'd much much rather have too much transparency than too little. It's easy to fix too much transparency while it's difficult to tell if there's too little transparency. It's easy to know your relationship isn't working when your GF tells you too much information all the time; it's harder to know when your GF is secretly cheating on you. | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
On December 11 2010 05:45 Logo wrote: I don't favor total transparency, it's not obtainable nor is it desirable, but that doesn't mean we lack transparency. Either way I'd much much rather have too much transparency than too little. It's easy to fix too much transparency while it's difficult to tell if there's too little transparency. It's easy to know your relationship isn't working when your GF tells you too much information all the time; it's harder to know when your GF is secretly cheating on you. If you don't know your GF is secretly cheating on you, does it matter she is cheating on you? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On December 11 2010 05:46 Enervate wrote: If you don't know your GF is secretly cheating on you, does it matter she is cheating on you? If this is the sort of rationality the American anti-Wikileaks groups are trying to press forth then it is extremely disturbing. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 11 2010 06:05 koreasilver wrote: If this is the sort of rationality the American anti-Wikileaks groups are trying to press forth then it is extremely disturbing. In a way, yes, but I don't know that there's indication total openness is good either (nor possible.) Not to rely on an overly simplistic version of game theory too much, but look at it through that lens. If this were BW and both sides agreed to give each other vision, but only one of the players did, who ends up winning that game? In order to avoid that imbalance, both sides just leave vision off. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
Vote Ron Paul 2012!!! | ||
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