EPTGirls in esports - Page 2
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McDonalds
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
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.Aar
2177 Posts
On November 11 2010 10:06 TieN.nS) wrote: Girl-only tournaments are a joke because any self-respecting female gamer enters the open entry tournaments. The ones that do enter the female-only tournaments are there solely to attention whore. Shout outs to team PMS~ And yet everyone knows and cares about names like ToSsGirL and Pikachu, and Clan PMS totally reeks of "look at me, I'm a girl, holding an Xbox controller." Not seeing your point. | ||
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Peanutsc
United States308 Posts
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
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TieN.nS)
United States2131 Posts
On November 11 2010 10:23 .Aar wrote: And yet everyone knows and cares about names like ToSsGirL and Pikachu, and Clan PMS totally reeks of "look at me, I'm a girl, holding an Xbox controller." Not seeing your point. You actually misread my post. Obviously PMS is a prime example of typical "girl gamers." There's no physiological reason that women shouldn't be able to compete on the same level as men in video games. Female-only tournaments are just there as a sideshow attraction for men to gawk at pretty girls, and honestly should be insulting to female gamers that actually have a passion for the game. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On November 11 2010 10:56 TieN.nS) wrote: You actually misread my post. Obviously PMS is a prime example of typical "girl gamers." There's no physiological reason that women shouldn't be able to compete on the same level as men in video games. Female-only tournaments are just there as a sideshow attraction for men to gawk at pretty girls, and honestly should be insulting to female gamers that actually have a passion for the game. You're not understanding the fundamental reason girl-only leagues exist: to encourage girls to play and to provide a place where they can play with other girls. It's not about whether they can compete with guys, or whether they should. Yeah, in a perfect world girls would enter open tournaments. But for some reason (many of which you can guess), they don't. Are you calling anyone that enters a nation war tournament, or CSL tournament, or any other tournament based on any arbitrary classification an "attention whore?" Obviously not, so why would you consider a girl division any different? I'm all for the ESL Female tournaments, I think they're a good way to encourage more female participation in SC2 and RTS games. There's really no downside at all. | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
It's really hot in fantasy, but in real life it's like any other games. I like people complaining about female only tournaments, trying to imply it's 'sexist'. Do not worry about non-korean tournaments. You know because that's 'racist'. | ||
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Trowabarton756
United States870 Posts
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Akasha
United States261 Posts
On November 11 2010 10:26 Peanutsc wrote: I signed up for and am strongly supporting the ESL Female SC2 Cup because I think there are a lot of girls out there who are hesitant about competing in online tournaments and a female-only cup might be a good way to draw them out. This is actually the first real tournament I've ever competed in - I've never felt confident enough to compete in a tournament before, mostly because I really really sucked at SC but also because I didn't want to draw a ton of attention for being a girl (as in "the only girl") and I didn't want to get bm'd. I think a lot of girls might see this tournament and realize that competing in online tournaments isn't just about cutthroat competition for lots of prize money where people just say "gl hf" and "gg" - it can also be a social event where people just play for fun and to meet others they might be friends with. This is also my reason for joining the cup too. I have done ESL cups in the past and I haven't really ran into any trouble with other players. I just thought what the hell and decided to join up (and then it turns out I misread the day and its during the time of a test :/). I think it's funny that people are getting bent out of shape about a cup that is not even giving away prize money. I mean if the female cup was giving away more money then say Go4SC2 Cup then I would see where people would get upset but come on... | ||
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chocopan
Japan986 Posts
I don't think there is any reason why girls and boys shouldn't all compete together. It doesn't really help us to only be playing other girls if that means we are training and competing against players of lesser ability, after all. To improve, you want to be playing against the best opponents you can find. Part of me thinks, this "sheltered workshop" approach with special girls-only leagues and competitions is either patronising (in presuming women are (and will always be) incapable of competing against the men), or the cheapest smarmiest kind of marketing exploitation (whatever her merits as a player you can't say her team didn't use tossgirl's image to market themselves). (Though to be fair they do that more than a little with the boys too these days.) On the other hand though, a lot of the Starcraft community does seem very boys locker-room a lot of the time, and to be frank it can be kind of intimidating, basically you don't want to treated any differently and that means not talking about being a girl, but then that means that the "boys only" ambiance never changes. So I don't know. However, if people decide to set up tournaments for women to get them started well I'm certainly going to support that. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On November 11 2010 09:51 nttea wrote: no, they do perform on par. It's just that comparing the number of girls to the number of guys trying to get good at starcraft you will find that girls are pretty well represented in the top level, that is not really at all. No they don't. The best girl progamer is worse than the best guy progamer, and an average girl progamer is worse than an average guy progamer | ||
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chocopan
Japan986 Posts
On November 11 2010 15:02 SubtleArt wrote: No they don't. The best girl progamer is worse than the best guy progamer, and an average girl progamer is worse than an average guy progamer This is true, but it is contingently true, not necessarily true. Which is to say, it is perfectly possible to conceive of a world in which women, as a class, compete in BW/SC2 at the same level as men, as a class, ie. gender does not correlate with performance. At present, this is not the case. Things such as women-only tournaments may, arguably, enable such a situation to come about in the future - for the reasons canvassed by various posters above. | ||
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Fatty800
United States50 Posts
if any girl wants to join esports competitively, they need to have a mindset that guys will be guys and not expect all of them to be gentlemen. the fact is that sc2 is a male dominate esport and will be for a very long time. theres absolutely no reason to be putoff by "immaturity", just need to crush some epeens. CRRUUUSSHHHH!!!!!!! its awesome how theyre trying to get female gamers in with the female tournys. i already had the mindset of joining any tournament i can for practice and experience. even though the first tournament i joined was plat and below with no prize, it was nerve wrecking at the start due to the unfamiliarity. i will probably join the female tournys and see how that is. | ||
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Deleted_143
Australia256 Posts
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
Personally I welcome female only leagues because they get more people intested in the game especially if a top player just so happens to be a famous taiwanese pop singer. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
Similarly, can something be said about women in high stakes poker? Chess, gaming, poker should all be professions where intuitively you wouldn't say women are at a natural disadvantage. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
For Counterstrike they had female only teams/tournaments but that was mostly as a "sideshow" of sorts to draw in more viewers/spectators, but for online tournaments i see nothign wrong with it. | ||
Spazer
Canada8036 Posts
On November 11 2010 17:32 zatic wrote: On a somewhat related topis, is there research / data on why women aren't as successful as men in competitive chess? As gamers we could probable learn from the reasons if there are any identified there. Similarly, can something be said about women in high stakes poker? Chess, gaming, poker should all be professions where intuitively you wouldn't say women are at a natural disadvantage. Overall, I suspect the popularity of said activities among women might have a lot to do with it. Just speaking from a purely statistical perspective, the more people you have in your talent pool, the more likely it is that one of them will be really, really good. For instance, take BW progaming. In theory, Koreans shouldn't have an inherent advantage over foreigners. However, they have a lot more people interested in competing on a competitive level, and as a result, all the best players are Korean. Speaking from my own experiences, I've been to a couple chess clubs in my lifetime. Usually, the ratio of women to men is maybe about 1:7 at best. In short, it could very well be that there's a fantastic female chess or starcraft player out there, but if they never pick up the game, their talent would never be discovered. Edit: Here's one study http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2007/01/participation_explains_differe.php | ||
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
How does participation explain that there are no exceptionally well doing females in intellectual sports? I agree that you would expect the top level to come largely from the male player pool, yet it shouldn't explain why there is hardly any outliers to the assumption (or is there?). To draw an analogy, in Golf Martin Kaymer comes from Germany, a country with next to zero public interest in the sport and a very thin player base yet he is #3 on the world rank now. Why are such exceptions not happening with females in competitive intellectual sports. Participation obviously is a large factor but can not explain the phenomenon alone. There must be more to it. Does anybody have more data on this? I am genuinely interested. | ||
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
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