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I'd like to yet again take advantage of the high caliber education of the TL community!
I'm starting my junior year of undergraduate, working on a BBA in Economics. I'm about a quarter of the way into major specific coursework, and I've spent about a year working in a hospital ICU. Working in the ICU has led me to think that I'd really like to work in the medical field.
I'd like to go to medical school. Since an Econ degree has nowhere near enough science to take the MCAT, I'm planning on going to grad school for a masters before applying to medical school. So. Is it possible to get into a decent grad school science program with a business degree? I'm confident I can score very highly on the GRE, I'm just wondering if my degree leaves me unqualified.
Any advice at all is desired and appreciated.
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I'm not sure about getting into a grad program with a econ degree, but if you're interested in going to medical school, you might consider enrolling in a postbac program. These programs are made for people like you (who have to take prereqs / mcat), and a lot of them advise you on getting into medical school as well. Some of them also have gateway programs where you automatically gain acceptance to a medical school after completing them.
I suggest you check out http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ (especially the postbac forum) - the people there generally know their stuff and can probably advise you much better than most of TL.
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Medical school is not graduate school, btw. Graduate school is typically referred to an advanced art or science degree leading to M.A, M. Sc., M. Eng, or Ph.D.
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MCATs are mostly high school level material, and the rest is covered by the prerequisites for med school anyway. Skip grad school, it's annoying.
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I'm just going to mention some stuff I've heard from other people. Not 100% sure if everything I'm going to say will be correct. Never hurt to do a bit of homework though.
1) It's possible to get into medical school without a science degree at all. I've heard of people in music for example managing it. You just need strong grades in whatever discipline you were in, strong MCAT, and your extracurriculars. If you're concerned about your science background in preparation for the MCAT, it would probably be best to aim for other undergraduate courses (do continuing studies?) and MCAT prep courses.
2) Graduate studies in the sciences is more research based. You're more likely to focus on a specific set of work than learn the whole broad spectrum of science you'll need for the MCAT. I'm not sure how confident a PI will be to take you on without adequate background in their field.
3) If you really want to attend graduate school in the sciences, you'll need to get research experience that says you can do the job. Find some lab work (volunteer, research project, work-study, etc etc) and see if you're capable. Despite your degree, if you can get references that say you can handle the work, finding a PI for graduate studies will be much easier. It'll also let you know if you can handle graduate work since that line of work is not for everyone.
I'm not sure if getting a MSc is beneficial for medical schools. Don't know if they treat everyone the same or not regardless of their degree. Also your experience in the ICU is definitely something useful when applying to medical school. Definitely try to keep up with hospital work.
Best of luck!
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Medical schools don't care what degree you have; in fact, they like diversity in applicants. However, you need to fulfill medical school prerequisites and a high undergraduate/graduate GPA (3.6+) in order to go to medical school. These pre-reqs include intro Bio, Physics and Chem, along with a full year of O-Chem with labs. Some medical schools have additional requirements; many of them want 1 or 2 semesters of english.
It's definitely possible to get into a master's program of chemistry with an undergrad in economics. However, you need to take as many chemistry courses as possible with your remaining time. You would definitely need to take Basic and O-Chem, and I would also recommend Physical Chemistry to maximize your chances of admission. Are you a math econ guy? Cause if you've taken a lot of math classes to supplement your econ (Real Analysis, Diff Eq, Calc 3, etc.) it will definitely help your cause to be accepted into a science grad program.
If you have a high econ gpa, I would recommend you spend your summers or perhaps take an extra year/semester of school to finish your medical pre-reqs. Medical schools are very happy to accept econ majors, as long as they have a high enough GPA.
Good Luck!
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Degrees don't matter as long as you score well on the GRE.
What kind of science program are you looking for?
There's Biochemistry, genetics, molecular biology, organic chemistry, analytical chemistry, physical chemistry, chemical engineering, atomic physics, quantum physics... you get the picture.
But let's just say you know shit about science, and since your a n econ major you probably know a good deal of applied maths, up to PDEs I would assume.
Take a psychology program that focuses on statistics, or statistical biology.
Most biology and psych students know very little math so these programs are easy to get into.
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There is no point of going to grad school if you are aiming for med school. Why waste 2-4 years on a masters when you will have to go to med school for 4 years plus 2-4 years of residency depending on your specialty (if any).
If you really want to go to med school, I suggest you stay on course with your BBA in econ and start taking the prerequisites for pre-med. I'm guessing you already took one general science class since you are a junior. Take an extra year of schooling to finish the rest of your prerequisites.
You WILL go through hell trying to cram all your pre-med classes, getting your masters, and studying for MCATS at the same time.
Take it from a failed student trying to double major in biology and theology and trying to make it to med school. Just pick one route and go for it.
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You could either take all the prereqs you need for med school during the rest of your undergrad career, and then take the MCAT and start applying, or you could just finish up your degree and, like ronfler said, to go into a postbac program. Its purpose is pretty much to prepare students to take the MCAT and medschool courses.
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Thanks for all the advice, guys. It's very much appreciated. Ronfler, that site is fantastic, exactly what I needed!
I think you guys are right and that I was erroneous in thinking I should do a graduate program in the sciences. Since my current undergrad GPA is horrible (like a 2.7), I'm worried that I won't be able to pull it up enough to get into a postbac program(I know I'll need this and that my GPA won't be high enough for direct admission to medical school irregardless of my MCAT). The main reason that I wanted to go to grad school was to have the opportunity for an outstanding GPA. While I feel I'm capable of maintaining all A's from this point on in my undergraduate(I was rather lax in my discipline early on in college), I don't know if a good upward grade trend will be enough to impress medical schools. I'm halfway into college, though, so I have some time to improve.
I really wanted to go to Emory Med, and I felt the only way to do that was to do grad school to have an outstanding GPA there, a great GRE and MCAT, and a positive undergraduate grade trend, as well of course LORs and hospital experience, etc.
Further advice vis-a-vis ways to improve competitiveness at this point in the game?
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not sure if you considered this, or if it even is a problem at all, but doing all that will take a ridiculous amount of money. 4 years undergrand + 1.5-2 years grad + 4 years med school + living expenses during your time without a job (i'm not sure if residency/internships are paid).
also, don't get your hopes up for getting into a dream med school (not that it really matters anyway). it's so damn difficult to get in that my brother, even with a pretty good gpa and decent mcat, understood enough about admissions to know that even getting accepted into any program would be good enough for him. (he did get in though  he's gonna be a DO!)
just don't want you to set unrealistic goals and then be disappointed when you don't reach them.
i think you'll have a chance at getting into a postbac program. with good essays, good recs, improving your gpa, and getting started on doing stuff like shadowing a doctor (not sure if you can do this at this point, but ill mention it just in case) or volunteering at a hospital, you'll get in.
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It's very much possible to do so, you just have to be confident you have enough science background to succeed on the MCAT and to do well in med school. Of course this depends on the school you plan on applying to as well. One of my friends uncles went to med school with a degree in music, and one of my friends went to med school with a degree in philosophy.
Edit: Actually, I realize you're American so maybe it's different in Canada.
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CA10828 Posts
what basic science courses have you taken so far at your university? i'm not talking about counting AP bio and chem for college credit. med schools don't accept those.
if you haven't taken the basic requirements, which would be:
1 year of english
1 year of general biology with lab
1 year of general chemistry with lab
1 year of organic chemistry with lab
1 year of physics with lab
1 year of math (calc 1 + either calc 2 or statistics)
you should forget about grad school and focus on completing these courses with your remaining units before graduation and if needed, via a postbacc program. in your case i'd highly recommend summer courses as well.
also a lot of med schools have other courses listed under "highly recommended" such as biochemistry, molecular biology, genetics, and microbiology that they like to see. go to your university library and check out the latest MSAR for the most up-to-date requirements for med schools.
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I don't think my university even allows non-biology majors to take those sort of biology classes. Which makes sense, huh -_-.
Okay, so the consensus I'm getting is to continue on with my BBA and just take a heavy load of sciences along the way, maybe with a post-baccalaureate program afterward if necessary. As well, of course, taking summer classes.
ieatkids, I'm working quite a bit and borrowing heavily. Such is the life of college students, eh? C'est la vie  .
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Haha, yes, unfortunately
Definitely see what the people at studentdoctor have to say about this before you listen to us though lol (as much as I trust TL)
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Question, I failed General Chem my first semester of college(being stupid.) If I retake it and ace it, will the F show on my GPA? I know that it'll show on my transcript, but I'm hoping a high upward grade trend will cover it. Will it affect my science GPA?
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IIRC, if you apply to allopathic schools (MD), then yes, the F will still be counted for in your AMCAS GPA. If you apply osteopathic (DO), they only consider the higher grade. Certainly a strong upward trend will help your case - I don't think 1 F (especially if retake) will preclude your acceptance to MD schools.
edit: but ieatkids is right, SDN is always a safe(r) bet
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I'm 99% sure that F is going to hurt your GPA. However, check with your college's policy. If I was in your shoes, it definitely be hurting my GPA.
Having a very strong final two years in undergraduate can be enough for medical school. There are a few universities up here in Canada that come to mind and they strictly look at your upper two years (not that they'll ignore the other ones I think). Best to check the policies of each medical school you plan on applying for.
However, given your situation... I don't think you're in a very good position. It wouldn't impossible to achieve what you're after, but it will be extraordinarily difficult. Before you make such a major change to your academic path, I'd suggest you talk with your registrar and maybe set up an appointment for counselling. I'm sure the people there have encounters those in your situation and know their stuff and can hopefully give you some direction.
Have a backup plan in mind (your BBA will help with that) and try to be reasonable. Don't try to achieve something that's completely unrealistic. Do your homework and find out exactly what you need to get into medical school and make sure it's within reason.
Good luck.
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It's not always about the classes, it's also about the research experience you have in lab. If possible you need to try to get some work in a professor's lab for a few semesters or apply for some fellowships.
Grad school is not like med school at all... they are completely different. I am a senior at Georgia Tech in Biomedical Engineering.
In graduate school, you either try to get a masters or PHD and you do research in a lab.
In med school you take a lot of classes and tests, it's a lot more reading + text based than graduate school which is primarily research. Med school usually you pay for it, graduate school you get paid for it.
There are MD/PHD programs but these are reserved for the elite and only a tiny handful of people get it. But yeah you have a better chance of getting into medschool if you try to go for pure grades + classes + study ass off. Grades, classes, + awesome studying will NOT get you into grad school. It will help but what really gets you into a good grad school is experience and ingenuity along with grades and GRE I guess... Also even most medschools want 1 year of lab experience now a days...
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What exactly is the difference between DO and MD? Is MD the more prestigious degree?
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Well, what I really wanted was a real person evaluation, ie what the actual hospital/employer preferences are, rather than a textbook definition that I already looked up .
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The DO curriculum is more difficult because more material is covered. A DO learns/does everything an MD does, and some more.
Practice: In general, you could say that an MD is a regular doctor who listens to what symptoms you have, then gives you something to treat that symptom, while a DO takes into consideration a more holistic view of your lifestyle and well-being before suggesting how to treat it (should include stuff like diet, sleeping habits, moods, etc). IMO DOs are much better doctors than MDs, but that's just my view of how people should be treated. Most people I've talked to (peers, students, aunts/uncles) have never heard of a DO before, but in the professional medical field, you'll have equal or higher standing than an MD.
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CA10828 Posts
On August 10 2010 17:42 ieatkids5 wrote:
but in the professional medical field, you'll have equal or higher standing than an MD.
what? i've never heard of that
i respect every health field professional but i've never heard anything close to what you have said.
yes in some cases you may have equal standing but almost never higher. if DOs had higher standing than MDs, why did it take them decades to finally achieve equal legal rights? and why do almost all top DO students try to go into an MD residency?
i mean i'm against elitism because in the end the letters after your name don't matter as long as you're able to work as a team of professionals to help better a patients life, but MD definitely carries more prestige than a DO simply because the degree existed first and thus the admission standards are more stringent.
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I agree with LosingID8.
@ieatkids5: You are making many generalizations. Any primary care physician, whether MD or DO, will need to take into account a patient's lifestyle and social issues before deciding on a plan of action. To claim a "holistic" approach as purely osteopathic is misleading. Functionally, MDs and DOs will be essentially equivalent in whatever job they end up doing. The challenge for DO's is that they will traditionally have a harder time getting into residencies in more competitive fields (i.e. not primary care). It is usually the DOs closer to the top of their class (and who took the MD boards) who will compete for non-primary care residency spots. As LosingID8 said, that is simply an extension of the fact that it is more competitive to get into an MD school.
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EPT
