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So I was trying to save my 5k post for a STX hype thread I’m working on but that won’t be for at least another 2 or 3 days and I can’t wait that long, plus I wanted to do a blog anyway 
warning: wall of text blog about my history on TL and thoughts on SC2 regarding my future on TL.
So I joined TL just over 2 years ago now, ironically I did it primarily for SC2. One day in early 2008 a friend and I were talking about SC2 and how we couldn’t wait and stuff. The conversation eventually led to “yea I used to love SC1! I played it so much!”
Of course I never really played it competitively at all. Originally when it 1st came out I was only 8 and so I didn’t even know games could be played on the internet. I still played the shit out of the single player though (with basically all cheats on ofc though). 3 years later my brother figured out how to play on battle.net and I got addicted to SC all over again playing such classics as “3v3 shared fastest nr20” and “choose your own defense”. Eventually I got tired of all the UMS (mostly because war3 came out and had better options for UMS) and moved on to war3, except eventually from that I got bored and moved on to other game genres to fill my time (CS, BF2, various single-player games).
Back to 2008, my friend and I played a few games on battle.net and had a fun time. This lead of course to saying “oh yeah, aren’t there progamers for SC? Like in Korea?” which eventually lead to several google searches where I somehow came across the Ascension tournament run by Artosis. Ascension was awesome and introduced me to high-level competitive StarCraft for the 1st time (btw the final group never finished either  ). Meanwhile my friend found the Korean leagues through team liquid and tried to get me into Korean SC over foreigner SC since it was better games, but back then I didn’t even want to watch anything without English commentary (which is a huge LOL to me now as I pretty much hate all English commentary). Luckily around that time Tasteless was casting the GSI which was a great way to bridge the gap for me to Korean StarCraft.
Eventually I joined TL to talk in the SC2 forum. I liked SC progaming but wasn’t WAY into it and only felt like playing SC1 as a way to prepare for SC2 lol (and honestly I feel like 90% of the people who picked up BW in 2008 onward are similar in that regard). I would read some of the BW sections on the forum but never posted there as I felt I had nothing to add. Originally I was pro-MBS, pro-automining, basically pro-everything that would make SC2 easier for me because I was a super shitty D--- kid with no mechanics, less game sense but I thought to myself “well if it was just easier than I could be good!” basically.
Eventually I just kept playing BW more and more because it was still really fun and I loved how there was a pro-scene to follow. I loved the way that the map pool came from the pro-scene. I loved the way that I could see a strategy performed by a pro and then try to replicate it myself. I also loved that it was pretty much the hardest game ever because of how competitive it is. During my non-RTS years I was always looking for hard games. I love games with deep game mechanics that make you work to be successful, I love games that take skill and thought to be good at (which has become harder and harder to find over the years). My 1st season on ICCUP I barely managed to stay at D by the end of the season, but I loved how hard the game was. I loved how I could play and play and play and still have what seemed like an infinite amount to learn. StarCraft is truly the hardest and most satisfying game I’ve ever played.
I don’t think I would be nearly as into SC as I was/am if it wasn’t for team liquid. Super awesome staff, super dedicated users, the best Korean coverage in English, and I would argue probably one of the funniest communities on the internet. I’ve been a part of a few forums in the past but none of them compare to the wit that so many TLers possess. The humor combined with how awesome TL already is, I’ve never been part of a forum for this long before and I don’t see myself stopping any time soon.
SC2 is only 2 days away now, although I feel the launch of the game won’t really immediately change much. The beta has been out for a really long time and was quite easy to get if you wanted it (just pay 5 bucks for a preorder). As I mentioned before, I came to TL primarily because of excitement about SC2 over 2 years ago. But over that time I’ve just fallen head-over-heels in love with BW. I love everything about it. It’s perfect in my eyes. I played SC2 a lot during the 1st phase of beta. I’m still disgusted with how they’ve completely ass-raped zerg in terms of gameplay (no muta micro, no lurkers, no defilers, no scourge, and no gameplay-replacements to speak of! ) . I somewhat quickly switched to protoss as I feel they are the most micro-intensive and have the most fun units to control.
At the end of phase 1, I gleefully went back to ICCUP to catch up with my favorite race. After just a few games I realized how much different the 2 games really are. SC2 is pretty good, hell- it’s quite good. But it just doesn’t hold a candle to BW where it counts for me. Nothing in SC2 is nearly as satisfying as even basic things in BW are for me ( macroing well, microing well, etc) . I still like the appeal that the game has in terms of a widely undiscovered strategic frontier, where everyone is on equal ground in terms of “figuring stuff out” as tasteless likes to put it. But when you take that away from it (which will eventually happen for the most part in a much shorter time that it took for BW), you just don’t have the fundamentals to stand up to BW (at least for me). The vast majority of games I play or watch for either game will generally be standard fair with only the diversity of the volatility of the game itself to keep it interesting (for instance almost all ZvTs in 2007/2008 were 1rax FE vs 3 hat muta and yet it was probably the most entertaining matchup to watch because of how varied even that can be). I will play SC2 sure, but to me right now it is just like any other new game I play for a while. I’ll play it, get bored, and resume playing BW fulltime instead of just part-time.
It sorta feels like TL is being taken over by a whole different community now that SC2 is basically out. Many new members that outnumber the older ones have come to TL for SC2. They form the majority of the SC2 forum. TL it seems is taking many steps to cater to this new audience. Before the ability to minimize forums (lol), it felt to me like this awesome BW site was just turning into a SC2 site because it also has starcraft in the name. To me right now SC2 is nothing else but just some other game, and it is just sort of weird that instead of just having 1 dedicated thread like LoL or DOTA, it has as many threads as BW does. I mean yeah it has starcraft in the name, and the description for TL.net is “starcraft progaming news” and not “brood war progaming news”, but it all just makes me a bit uncomfortable I guess. I know SC2 is a lot more popular right now among foreigners, but so are a lot of other games. Should we have a forum for call of duty too? I know it’s not really the same, but this is sorta how I feel (which is really ironic because I probably would never of have joined TL if it weren’t for the SC2 forum…).
I had a bit of an epiphany the other day about all the SC2 casters. I generally don’t like any SC casters, I sorta feel that the majority of them don’t know any more about the game than I do, and just sorta want to hear themselves talk and get e-famous instead of really offer any real insight to the common BW player. I still highly regarded day9/artosis/chill though (kinda tasteless, although he is probably the funniest SC caster of all time, I feel he sorta lost the passion that he had before and just got a lot less interesting). Now they’ve (all BW casters) all pretty much gone full-fledged into SC2, with day9 pretty much ignoring its existence from what I can tell and artosis seemingly going out of his way to try to put a positive image on SC2 and negative on BW (didn’t he at one point even say “no one plays BW anymore?”) , which really makes me feel sad because HE was my 1st influence into the SC world, and now I just take everything he says or does with a huge grain of salt and skepticism. One day I ran across this thread about day9 dailies and the discussion lead to whether or not he should do BW casts and I realized that even if he went back to BW, I still wouldn’t watch his show any more. I used to LOVE his show and watched like every episode for about 2 months straight. Then the beta came out. Then I played it. Then he stopped doing BW. Then I stopped watching. I think even if he went back, I wouldn’t get nearly as much out of it any more. I think I ran my course with day9 so to speak. He taught me so much but I feel there isn’t much else for him to teach me, and that goes for just about every other caster too (and maybe there’s a discussion to be had some time as to whether or not casting is only valuable if it is educational, as when it isn’t I find it to be far less engaging).
Wow, my 5k post just sorta turned into a huge wall of text bashing SC2 kinda I guess, sorry lol. In the end, I know there is still a huge BW community out there. I love these guys, and as long as TL has a BW forum, I know I will still be an avid poster/visitor of the site. Hopefully one day SC2 will somehow get better and I will be fine switching to it, but there’s just that certain one in a trillion perfect about BW that I feel can never be replicated properly.
sorry for the huge wall of text again . I hope to stay on this site for at least another 2 years and 5000 posts, and with less regrets. As much as I love this community, I always sorta feel like im not entirely in it. I want to hang out in op irc more. I want to game more with TLers and talk more with them outside of the forum. I went to Blizzcon last year and felt like I didn’t mingle with TLers nearly as much as I should of, and I regret it dearly . My goals are to interact with the TL community more in the future, to give back to it more, and hopefully to learn how to make blogs shorter (and to not let SC2 hate rants sneak into as many posts any more lol).
Cheers, here’s to another 2 years and 5000 posts.
PS: I always have insanely shitty luck with blog timing and they always get cleared out of the front page in like an hour and no one reads them . hopefully this wont be the case this time.
 
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
5k!!!
Reading now ^_^
Edit: The goal was to beat mOnion!
Wow, that's an interesting story, and definitely shows some "preplanning." Though really, BW >>>>>> SCII, but we won't know that in say, a few years. Just got to give it time.
Here's to another 5000 for you to get to the big five digits
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try not to think about sc2 too much, you can still play both! CS developed 2 communities that overlap, no reason SC can't
grats on 5k!
edit: goddamit flame you do it in the wrong order >_<
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I support this blog. 5/5.
I READ THE WHOLE THING!
BW FOREVER!
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On July 25 2010 17:12 mOnion wrote:
try not to think about sc2 too much, you can still play both! CS developed 2 communities that overlap, no reason SC can't
grats on 5k!
edit: goddamit flame you do it in the wrong order >_<
yea there can be 2 communities for it sure, but do I personally have (or want to spend) that much time on both? Personally there can only really be 1 big game for me, which has been BW for these last few years. I tried having both for a while during phase 1 of the beta, but I just ended up sucking at BW and completely unsatisfied in SC2 (not just because it was SC2 but becuase there was no awesome pro-scene to watch and I wasn't spending enough time on it to really improve a lot until towards the end (when CSL was over so I decided to do solely SC2 until the beta ended). When I tried to split my time I just hated it and felt like I didnt have enough time for everything (school work, social life, keeping up on VODs, playing BW/SC2, playing any other game that might come out (LOL im so nerdy), etc). If I split my attention both ways, I dont think I'll really be satisfied with either.
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On July 25 2010 17:16 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 17:12 mOnion wrote:
try not to think about sc2 too much, you can still play both! CS developed 2 communities that overlap, no reason SC can't
grats on 5k!
edit: goddamit flame you do it in the wrong order >_< yea there can be 2 communities for it sure, but do I personally have (or want to spend) that much time on both? Personally there can only really be 1 big game for me, which has been BW for these last few years. I tried having both for a while during phase 1 of the beta, but I just ended up sucking at BW and completely unsatisfied in SC2 (not just because it was SC2 but becuase there was no awesome pro-scene to watch and I wasn't spending enough time on it to really improve a lot until towards the end (when CSL was over so I decided to do solely SC2 until the beta ended). When I tried to split my time I just hated it and felt like I didnt have enough time for everything (school work, social life, keeping up on VODs, playing BW/SC2, playing any other game that might come out (LOL im so nerdy), etc). If I split my attention both ways, I dont think I'll really be satisfied with either.
if you could not eloquently phrase the ideas (lol) that are worrying me so much that I've shoved them out of my head to keep from losing my mind then that would be AWESOME
just gonna have to wait it out and try and stay positive ^_^
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5 out of your 7 smiley faces are frowny faces!
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On July 25 2010 17:28 Beloth(OD) wrote:
5 out of your 7 smiley faces are frowny faces!
they're mostly modesty frowns though :O
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Nice post, made me think 
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Croatia9446 Posts
On July 25 2010 17:07 Ideas wrote:
It sorta feels like TL is being taken over by a whole different community now that SC2 is basically out. Many new members that outnumber the older ones have come to TL for SC2. They form the majority of the SC2 forum. TL it seems is taking many steps to cater to this new audience. Before the ability to minimize forums (lol), it felt to me like this awesome BW site was just turning into a SC2 site because it also has starcraft in the name. To me right now SC2 is nothing else but just some other game, and it is just sort of weird that instead of just having 1 dedicated thread like LoL or DOTA, it has as many threads as BW does. I mean yeah it has starcraft in the name, and the description for TL.net is “starcraft progaming news” and not “brood war progaming news”, but it all just makes me a bit uncomfortable I guess. I know SC2 is a lot more popular right now among foreigners, but so are a lot of other games. Should we have a forum for call of duty too? I know it’s not really the same, but this is sorta how I feel (which is really ironic because I probably would never of have joined TL if it weren’t for the SC2 forum…).
Wow, this is exactly how I feel about Teamliquid at the moment.
Your whole post is awesome btw and it makes me really happy for some reason -.-
I especially liked the bit about SC casters. They were a vital figures in BW scene and now practically forgot about it. Pretty sad.
oh and 5000 posts in 2 years? Impressive ^^
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Wow this is a really nice post. I feel the exact same about SC2 as you. I used to play starcraft all the time when I was younger single player and then played ums a lot when I found b.net. I eventually transitioned to WC3 and played ladder a lot but I would always fool around with Starcraft and keep coming back to it. I never really played regular starcraft seriously (well not really serious but with a mindset to improve) until late 2008/early 2009 when I randomly found the youtube SC commentators. Things led to things and I ended up on teamliquid. Playing SC2 just doesn't give me the same satisfaction, in both winning and just having fun. It's a great game, an awesome game but there is something magical about starcraft 1. I'm sure competitive SC2 will become more fun to watch as time goes on but it has a huge mountain to climb (a magical mountain with dragons and evil gnomes that push you off) to reach SC1. Watching a progamer do something amazing in BW is priceless because of how difficult the game is. What other game in the world can people practice 12 hours a day for years and years and still find new stuff and ways to improve their game?
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if you can agree to OP then i do that lol
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First I knew you as the dude with the 150 APM sig
Then I knew you as "that stx guy who isn't CSheep"
Who knows what you'll be in another 5k :O
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Actually it's true that older TL members get totally outnumbered in the SC2 forums now. Issues with bnet 2.0 and realm-play (a game for EVERY realm, you never had to do that, just fucking imagine if that gets a trend for a second) get totally kicked aside and you are called a "blizzard-hater" as soon as you mention them, something nobody would've done on TL two years ago.
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Still, there are lots of BW players who are searching for new challenges and SC2 will provide that. Maybe the game will not have the depth in WoL, but by the time the third expansion comes in, SC2 will be as fun as SC:BW does. Just check out what can with done with Void Rays and Infestors and read plexa's latest article, he has a lot to say about the matter.
The new people ain't that bad, and if they are, they get banned before they reach 100 posts. Congrats on 5k posts, hope you hang around.
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I feel what you feel. I didn't create my account too long ago, but I was a teamliquid.net creeper since 2007! I do feel that way about the community too, I just hope it holds out...
Back in the day, TL was smaller and more niche community. People like me would read the final edits and battle reports and enjoy the banter of the regulars. But now, any SC/SC2 strategy googling points to liquipedia. I'm worried that alot of bad-mannered newcomers will thrash up the forums and TL will lose it's charm.
I just hope not!
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I can identify myself with the first part of your post since it was the same with my friend we were mostly playing BW for fun trying to beat each other. When he gave up on the game, i kept playing the campaign for the 300th times and playing UMS. Like you later (after the "Hell it's about time event") i googled "Slayers Boxer" because that was the only progamer i knew at the time and i found TL and discovered the awesomeness that is Firebathero!! ^^
Too bad the 2nd part is only some Sc2 bashing
I'll try to play a bit of the devil advocate here.
I'm guessing TL was born because there was a need for website so people could follow BW Korean/foreign progaming leagues?
Following this guess, as you said since TL is a starcraft progaming news website. As long as there is some Korean(foreign?) BW progaming leagues TL will cover them. As long as there is some SC2 progaming leagues well TL will also cover them.
They can't ignore the game because some think it's inferior.
About the newcomers, since TL is a successful (i'm guessing it is) website and is considered a reference on progaming news, It'll attract newcomers.
A newcomer isn't systematically a loud bad manered guy/(gal?). There has been some good first post recently that would blow away any of my posts. Also TL is really well moderated.
Well all in all congratz i guess for managing to say 5000 things on TL. (can't imagine posting that much)
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No offense, a very well written blog with some great points. But I wonder how many more "BW is still way better" and "BW Forever" threads we are going to see before people realise it doesnt matter. Play whatever game makes you happy, and stop these nostalgic BW for life threads. (Not that I am suggesting that you did that in your blog, I just mean the BW/SC2 Comparison thread group as a whole)
Honestly, Brood war was and is a fantastic game. SC2 in my opinion is equally great, but I dont compare them because they are so different. Will SC2 become as big as broodwar? Im not sure, but I kind of doubt it. That said, just enjoy it while it lasts, and when it does end, you will always have BW to go back too! The games dont need to compete at the moment, I think there will be both a SC2 and a BW community for at least another year. If BW does die out, accept the fact that it was great, and move on.
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Canada2480 Posts
Really great blog, good job
On July 26 2010 00:42 Darpa wrote:
No offense, a very well written blog with some great points. But I wonder how many more "BW is still way better" and "BW Forever" threads we are going to see before people realise it doesnt matter. Play whatever game makes you happy, and stop these nostalgic BW for life threads. (Not that I am suggesting that you did that in your blog, I just mean the BW/SC2 Comparison thread group as a whole)
Honestly, Brood war was and is a fantastic game. SC2 in my opinion is equally great, but I dont compare them because they are so different. Will SC2 become as big as broodwar? Im not sure, but I kind of doubt it. That said, just enjoy it while it lasts, and when it does end, you will always have BW to go back too! The games dont need to compete at the moment, I think there will be both a SC2 and a BW community for at least another year. If BW does die out, accept the fact that it was great, and move on.
There is Never too much SC2 hate.
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Great blog! 5/5
I kind of miss the pre-beta days, when BW was still widely played. Since beta came out, most of my friends refuse to touch BW again because it is an entirely different game to them. Me and my only friend who hasn't turned into a SC2 fanatic are stilling playing BW because we love the satisfaction that it gives us when we execute something well.
I don't plan on getting SC2 for a while, partially because of the B-net problems, and partially because the game itself seems a lot simpler, which kind of makes me turned off to the game.
As for the drastic change in TL because of the beta, i find that the BW strategy section had a drastic decrease in help threads, while the SC2 strategy forum had a drastic increase. This makes me disappointed, because I love helping out the less skileld players, but my area of expertise is only in BW, and not SC2 =(
Anyways, congrats on 5k posts and 2 years! Cheers!
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EPT
