please, please please STOP THROWING AROUND THE WORD "TROLL" when you don't understand what it means. most of you reading this who just said to yourselves, "this does not apply to me, i know how to use that word" do not in fact know how to use that word. it makes you look dumb, makes me look dumb, makes our forums look dumb, and thus gradually decreases your chances of mating with cute TAs that you never thought were that cute but then you glimped them with their glasses off accidentally and realized they were actually super hot AND smart but she reads teamliquid and thinks you're dumb because you can't use a basic internet term correctly. that's incentive to read the following:
"trolling" does NOT include obvious bantering and/or joking and/or having simply contrary viewpoints and/or having simply earnest and stupid opinions.
it is a word adopted from this term:
Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water.
source wikipedia (yeah that means i know damn well what i'm talking about) this means the fish here are being trolled, which okay yeah it's pretty funny.
for those of you who cannot conquer the Analogy Obstacle Course, an internet troll (the ship captain) in his Internet Locomotive Device aka his computer (the boat) will make troll posts (the fishing bait) and watch as his victims are dragged in any direction he chooses.
What does this mean? if you call someone a troll because you've had a heated argument with them, that means you just got all mad and fussed up by someone who did it just to entertain themselves, and that just makes you fucking stupid. think about what happens to fish after they are trolled!
What do we do? bad trolls are very obvious, so calling them trolls is obnoxious like that overeager kid in the front row of class. ignore them. good trolls are harder to tell apart, but as long as you stay calm and don't take yourself too seriously (aka not biting their bait) you will survive unscathed. mods here especially are quite good at detecting trolls and will seek them out and ban them anyway. if you are really upset by one, pm a mod or use the report feature.
so here are my conclusions: - it is always to not be an angry nerd - it is always better to err on the side of not using the word "troll"
that last one is also because starting now temp bans will be handed out by me for blatant misuse, like "is this thread a troll? r u a trolling me??? qxD dxDDDDDD"
the holy trinity of teamliquid as of 06/10/2010: bonjwa, metagame, and troll
Im starting to get tired of people who make threads and call out people who use the word troll to describe people acting in certain manners. There has been too many threads saying the exact same thing :l
I was always sure that is what Troll meant. And people were always sure it was the smelly guy living under the bridge. Thank you so much for this. I can show this to people to explain that the entertainment is getting other people "caught up" in the net. Nothing to do with arguing or even being mean.
I should have stopped reading after i thought "well this doesn't apply to me, i know what troll means" but since you stated i didn't i kept on reading... but yeah i did know what troll meant.
A lot of people throw around words on this forum that aren't always being used correctly.
It isn't a matter of just "troll". Day to day language sometimes slips through the cracks into jargon. I don't understand why this word takes more importance over any other when someone misuses it.
People who constantly call others "trolls" aren't going to become better posters by learning that they've been misusing the term. I've learned from the random funny picture thread in the general forum that every other page is a heated discussion on engineering or mathematics where people aren't grasping certain terms or are just making mistakes in their logic regarding whatever is being discussed. I'm just confused why people are getting temp banned for misusing this word when everyone is prone to mistakes.
I dunno man, I think trolling can be really subtle sometimes (not as clear cut as you make it out to be). Things like 4chan and other similar sites just make people total idiots, and it's like a new phenomena or breed of internet users, who post in "troll-ish" ways.
But like, I know what you are talking about in your post about people saying like "is this a troll post?" for threads that aren't trolling. Some people use the word TOO liberally, but my argument is that the word troll can be used more loosely nowadays.
I see a lot of trolls recently, here is one example (granted the guy did bite, but still, this guy should be banned for doing this):
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
No, no. Definitely a idiot.
No, it's an.
I ate an apple I ate an intense meal. I ate an orange.
I ate a buffalo. I ate a kiwi. I ate a mango.
One chooses the article based upon the phonetic quality of the first letter of the word succeeding the article. If it's a vowel sound one uses an. If it's a consonant sound it's a. When u acts as a yoo sound (union, unity, united, etc.), a is used.
On June 10 2010 08:11 Lexpar wrote: Yes but he's a idiot.
On June 10 2010 19:00 GrayArea wrote: I dunno man, I think trolling can be really subtle sometimes (not as clear cut as you make it out to be). Things like 4chan and other similar sites just make people total idiots, and it's like a new phenomena or breed of internet users, who post in "troll-ish" ways.
But like, I know what you are talking about in your post about people saying like "is this a troll post?" for threads that aren't trolling. Some people use the word TOO liberally, but my argument is that the word troll can be used more loosely nowadays.
I see a lot of trolls recently, here is one example (granted the guy did bite, but still, this guy should be banned for doing this):
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
No, no. Definitely a idiot.
No, it's an.
I ate an apple I ate an intense meal. I ate an orange.
I ate a buffalo. I ate a kiwi. I ate a mango.
One chooses the article based upon the phonetic quality of the first letter of the word succeeding the article. If it's a vowel sound one uses an. If it's a consonant sound it's a. When u acts as a yoo sound (union, unity, united, etc.), a is used.
On June 10 2010 19:00 GrayArea wrote: I dunno man, I think trolling can be really subtle sometimes (not as clear cut as you make it out to be). Things like 4chan and other similar sites just make people total idiots, and it's like a new phenomena or breed of internet users, who post in "troll-ish" ways.
But like, I know what you are talking about in your post about people saying like "is this a troll post?" for threads that aren't trolling. Some people use the word TOO liberally, but my argument is that the word troll can be used more loosely nowadays.
I see a lot of trolls recently, here is one example (granted the guy did bite, but still, this guy should be banned for doing this):
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
On June 10 2010 07:17 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
On June 10 2010 07:56 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:17 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
No, no. Definitely a idiot.
On June 10 2010 08:07 vlaric wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:56 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:17 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
No, no. Definitely a idiot.
No, it's an.
I ate an apple I ate an intense meal. I ate an orange.
I ate a buffalo. I ate a kiwi. I ate a mango.
One chooses the article based upon the phonetic quality of the first letter of the word succeeding the article. If it's a vowel sound one uses an. If it's a consonant sound it's a. When u acts as a yoo sound (union, unity, united, etc.), a is used.
On June 10 2010 08:11 Lexpar wrote: Yes but he's a idiot.
It was a meme... zzzzzzz.. even more reason to ban. and shame on you for posting that in this thread.
Ah, this is the question I wanted to ask. I mean I have been asking all the time, but nobody can give me the answer. Now I finally understand what is the meaning of trolling keke. Thank.
On June 10 2010 19:00 GrayArea wrote: I dunno man, I think trolling can be really subtle sometimes (not as clear cut as you make it out to be). Things like 4chan and other similar sites just make people total idiots, and it's like a new phenomena or breed of internet users, who post in "troll-ish" ways.
But like, I know what you are talking about in your post about people saying like "is this a troll post?" for threads that aren't trolling. Some people use the word TOO liberally, but my argument is that the word troll can be used more loosely nowadays.
I see a lot of trolls recently, here is one example (granted the guy did bite, but still, this guy should be banned for doing this):
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
On June 10 2010 07:17 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
On June 10 2010 07:56 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:17 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
No, no. Definitely a idiot.
On June 10 2010 08:07 vlaric wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:56 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:17 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
On June 10 2010 07:04 Lexpar wrote:
On June 10 2010 04:16 zhul4nder wrote: So...final is at 8am. i slept to 11am. Talked with the prof already and she said the best i can do is take it up the ass. So...what kind of mentality should i have regarding how i will live my life? damn i'm an idiot :[.
I think you mean a idiot.
no, i think he means an idiot
edit: on topic, if you explain to the prof that you slept in because you were sick, you might have better luck getting to take the retest
No, no. Definitely a idiot.
No, it's an.
I ate an apple I ate an intense meal. I ate an orange.
I ate a buffalo. I ate a kiwi. I ate a mango.
One chooses the article based upon the phonetic quality of the first letter of the word succeeding the article. If it's a vowel sound one uses an. If it's a consonant sound it's a. When u acts as a yoo sound (union, unity, united, etc.), a is used.
On June 10 2010 08:11 Lexpar wrote: Yes but he's a idiot.
It was a meme... zzzzzzz.. even more reason to ban. and shame on you for posting that in this thread.
double standards tbh... just look at the NSFW random pics thread, that shit would even get deleted on gotfrag!
edit: also i am quite sure almost everyone knows the definition of troll, but like many overused words it evolves to be used in several circumstances. obvious example is fuck "fuck you, im gonna fuck her, fuck that hurt..." etc except its way more versatile
Can I go back and report people's old posts expostfacto for violating this? Especially the ones in my blog where I talked about the abuse of the word 'troll' and they did the same shit lol
On June 10 2010 19:32 micronesia wrote: Can I go back and report people's old posts expostfacto for violating this? Especially the ones in my blog where I talked about the abuse of the word 'troll' and they did the same shit lol
I agree abuse of this(or any) term is annoying. That said, sometimes people online do respond so irrationally that it legitimately crosses your mind if this is a serious argument or someone just getting a rise. Other than that it can also be a metaphorical usage, kind of like "this guy cant be really this dense".
The funny thing is,sometimes its really hard to tell.. need to do like a blind test of moron vs troll haha.I think some people are naturally just provokers consciously or not.
I think it might just be a pet peeve for you mate, I honestly didn't think this was a major issue. I believe the word troll is used more often than not as a euphemism, it's easier to call someone a troll not necessarily because of what it means, but it implies that the person is actively trying to be a dick. While calling someone a troll who's actually trolling is pretty much just calling them out for what they are.
At least that's how I use the word, it's not that I think the person is trolling, but I would call them a troll stating that I think their argument is so dumb that it must be a troll.
I hope that kind of made sense, although I could altogether be wrong in my inference.
I'm sick and tired of internet nerds screaming their little whiny pidgeon voices every time someone uses an e-term incorrectly. hurrrr durrrr cheese whine metagame troll durrrr hurrrrr
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: please, please please STOP THROWING AROUND THE WORD "TROLL" when you don't understand what it means. most of you reading this who just said to yourselves, "this does not apply to me, i know how to use that word" do not in fact know how to use that word. it makes you look dumb, makes me look dumb, makes our forums look dumb, and thus gradually decreases your chances of mating with cute TAs that you never thought were that cute but then you glimped them with their glasses off accidentally and realized they were actually super hot AND smart but she reads teamliquid and thinks you're dumb because you can't use a basic internet term correctly. that's incentive to read the following:
I think there are other terms that are misused which causes far more damage than the troll word. When people use the word troll wrong, you usually know in what meaning of the word he meant it. Calling out who is a troll and who isn't seems to be a waste of time though regardless of your grasp of its meaning.
I see way too many discussions where people end up using terms they think they know but it ends up meaning something completely different to other people. Take the term "cheese" in starcraft. Some people also seem to use "balance" in all kinds of crazy ways. Whenever there is a discussion about either of these topics, you always have lots of wasted pages of arguments and disagreements. The core of the discussion often drowns away in people talking past each other instead of to each other. I think whenever you use words that people tend to misinterpret you need to give a clear definition of what the words mean. You end up raising the quality discussion a whole lot. This doesn't have anything to do with the word Troll, but what better place to vomit some off topic opinions than on Intrigue's blog, eh?
I had no idea that 'forum trolls' were such for 'trolling' as in fishing.
I always thought it was troll as in, mythical creature troll (cuz trolls are bad lawl).
I would suggest the reason i used to think this way, is because everyone uses troll as a noun. So if you call someone a troll, you are calling someone a "act of trolling" or referring to the "bait" or "lure" which would make more sense if you were refering the the users post and not the user. But because people use this word to describe the poster it would make no sense to call them a troll? I wonder how many other people have been mislead abbout this word for this reason>?
Someone who trolls would be called an angler or a fisherman.
On the other hand accusing someone of trolling would make sense to me.
Is this reasonable to assume or do I have a mistaken grasp of the word, as in how it should be properly used in the english language?
for those of you who cannot conquer the Analogy Obstacle Course, an internet troll (the ship captain) in his Internet Locomotive Device aka his computer (the boat) will make troll posts (the fishing bait) and watch as his victims are dragged in any direction he chooses.
Why is the ship's captain/ fisherman refered to as a 'troll'? Would it be proper english to call the guy who trolls for fish a 'troll'???
More likely, in proper english the troll should refer to the bait>?
I assume my confusion comes from internet 'troll' being a slang word and a noun, which is why I would get it confused with the most common noun for the word which would be a mythical creature.
I'm also quite surprised that no one else who has posted had the wrong idea about the origin of the term, such as i did.
I don't ever use the word, just a point of interest for me.
House is being cleaned because the mod(s) find that the word Troll is being overused? It seems drastic. I love the generous ban hammer methods of TL, but this seems almost tyrannical use of power to scratch someones itch of a pet peeve, and yet...
throughout the entire Rant in the OP, all I could keep thinking is when is this poster ever going to use a capital letter to start a sentence. Interesting that moderation would go so far to boot 'Troll' misusers, but not using such a common rule to sentence structure kind of 'makes you, me, and the site look dumb.'
On June 10 2010 21:20 Aurdon wrote: throughout the entire Rant in the OP, all I could keep thinking is when is this poster ever going to use a capital letter to start a sentence. Interesting that moderation would go so far to boot 'Troll' misusers, but not using such a common rule to sentence structure kind of 'makes you, me, and the site look dumb.'
So you kinda forgot to capitalize midway through your post, why on earth would 'Rant' then have a capital R?
Also, who the fuck do you think you are Intrigue? Talking out of your ass and educating these people on what a troll is. Honestly, this kinda article should be left in the hands of someone with a little more experience like Hot_Bid for example.
I think that the biggest issue with the false accusation of trolling is that you're giving the poster credit on some level for manipulating you, when the fact of the matter is, you're usually just arguing with a total retard who doesn't know what they are talking about. They aren't baiting you into some inane argument, they really are trying to argue that inane point that doesn't make sense to any reasonable human being.
I find it hard to believe all the idiots on the internet (of which there are many) suddenly turned into genius puppet masters.
In fact I think it actually benefits the retards even more, when they finally do get backed into a corner with their shitty argument, they can just say "lol relax, I was trolling"
This is a much needed post. I can't count the number of times I've posted my opinion on some topic or another and some stupid internet douchebag comes along saying that he disagrees and that I'm a troll. It just doesn't work that way...
I dunno guys, I don't really have a problem with Terran mech
Lololo u must be trolling
I liked Avatar.
Haha troll XD
Indeed, I too support this initiative. How about people argue with real points instead of just stating their opinions and yelling troll back and forth?
throwing the word "Troll" around really became "Mainstream" ever since that fag RWJ started using it. along with making all his viewer believe that, whatever he thinks is "Fake and Gay", clearly is fake.
Wtf.. I was gonna link to fanatacist's guide to trolling but he edited it and removed the whole thing.. T_T
Anyways, fully agree with this, theres way too many examples like seppolevne posted, let the banhammer fly... didnt know about the origin coming from fishing thats funny (and lol at trolling/trawling)
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: please, please please STOP THROWING AROUND THE WORD "TROLL" when you don't understand what it means. most of you reading this who just said to yourselves, "this does not apply to me, i know how to use that word" do not in fact know how to use that word. it makes you look dumb, makes me look dumb, makes our forums look dumb, and thus gradually decreases your chances of mating with cute TAs that you never thought were that cute but then you glimped them with their glasses off accidentally and realized they were actually super hot AND smart but she reads teamliquid and thinks you're dumb because you can't use a basic internet term correctly. that's incentive to read the following:
"trolling" does NOT include obvious bantering and/or joking and/or having simply contrary viewpoints and/or having simply earnest and stupid opinions.
Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water.
source wikipedia (yeah that means i know damn well what i'm talking about) this means the fish here are being trolled, which okay yeah it's pretty funny.
for those of you who cannot conquer the Analogy Obstacle Course, an internet troll (the ship captain) in his Internet Locomotive Device aka his computer (the boat) will make troll posts (the fishing bait) and watch as his victims are dragged in any direction he chooses.
What does this mean? if you call someone a troll because you've had a heated argument with them, that means you just got all mad and fussed up by someone who did it just to entertain themselves, and that just makes you fucking stupid. think about what happens to fish after they are trolled!
What do we do? bad trolls are very obvious, so calling them trolls is obnoxious like that overeager kid in the front row of class. ignore them. good trolls are harder to tell apart, but as long as you stay calm and don't take yourself too seriously (aka not biting their bait) you will survive unscathed. mods here especially are quite good at detecting trolls and will seek them out and ban them anyway. if you are really upset by one, pm a mod or use the report feature.
so here are my conclusions: - it is always to not be an angry nerd - it is always better to err on the side of not using the word "troll"
that last one is also because starting now temp bans will be handed out by me for blatant misuse, like "is this thread a troll? r u a trolling me??? qxD dxDDDDDD"
the holy trinity of teamliquid as of 06/10/2010: bonjwa, metagame, and troll
have a good day everyone! take care!
I could cut+paste this to so many people and they still wouldn't get it
To many people, apparently a troll is someone who disagrees with you in an argument and that's 100% the only definition they know
I remember when I used the word trolling in the dark days of Runescape classic(99 or 00), I would go to the highest level of the wilderness and Troll(Fishing term) across it looking for players to PK. Oh those were the dark days of my playing games during highschool computer classes.
Frankly internet trolling is an art that many have lost and just think that everything someone says they don't agree with is them getting trolled. I still like reading Fark because the trolls there are old school and very good at it.
On June 11 2010 00:41 koreasilver wrote: People seem to mistake stupidity as trolling.
Stupidity is just stupidity.
trolling is a coverup for stupidity
that being said, I thought trolling is "trying to elicit an emotional response from someone who cares about a subject merely for the sake of getting a response (and not caring about the subject oneself)"
maybe that's kind of similar to what intrigue said
Trolling itself isn't that big of a problem. The real problem is, that most of the trolls are unfunny, obvious, stupid and time-wasting features of internet world. I don't mind being trolled as long as it's smart attempt, but it's essentialy hard to stumble upon that. Man, I even encountered trolls that actually stimulated good discussion, but those are extremly endangered species.
From my understanding a Troll is someone who baits people into arguments on a forum, yet the Troll really cares nothing about it and is only trying to trigger an emotional response from people for his own amusement.
On June 11 2010 00:21 Chill wrote: Metagame is coming up next.
Oh my lord, yes. Just yes. Ever since that one day I popped in Mystlord's stream and saw everyone using the word meta in every single freaking word, I've been waiting. Make it happen!
What if you intelligently argue a stupid position in order to make someone call you a troll, and they get banned for using it incorrectly, even though you were actually trolling them into the ban?
I think we just stumbled upon the metagame of trolling.
On June 11 2010 00:45 ]343[ wrote: trolling is a coverup for stupidity
Often it is so. Everyone has seen this, so I'm not posting the image in the thread, but it makes me laugh.
Unrelated: my favorite troll event was the Pokéclipse. Made as a parody of Digiclipse, many people thought it was a sincere site and trolled it, not knowing it was run by trolls. Some of the people who kept doing so even after it was revealed the site wasn't serious were probably trolling by pretending not to know. Some gullible people thought the site was for real (but they might have been trolls). There was speculation that Digiclipse itself was a troll site, and the whole Pokéclipse group got trolled. It was like a giant onion, layers of trolls trolling trolls, and so much more delicious than someone accusing someone he doesn't agree with of being a troll.
It's got nothing to do with being mean or getting into an argument. It's about getting other people caught up in it and letting them argue. It's 2 different words of Troll. That's the problem.
On June 11 2010 01:48 cemlions wrote: It seems like the best decision is to ignore trolls completely, and not even aknowledge the good ones.
I don't think I understand. Explain?
You're trying to incite e-riots when you troll. If no one gives you a reaction—the single and only purpose of trolling—you have failed, and you must commit seppuku with your keyboard.
The use of the word "Troll" as a noun is actually incorrect.
You are not a Troll. You are Trolling. Or... you can Troll (as you would Troll waters for fish) but you can not be a fucking "Troll". If you really know what the word means. In fact, up untill this thread, I'd be surprised if I even used that word 3X in over 2000 posts- because its not meant to be a Noun. It's a verb.
lol, it was interesting to learn the fishing background of the word troll. that was all i got out of the post, but i can totally understand people tossing the word around whenever there's an argument, which is silly.
On June 11 2010 02:42 cursor wrote: The use of the word "Troll" as a noun is actually incorrect.
You are not a Troll. You are Trolling. Or... you can Troll (as you would Troll waters for fish) but you can not be a fucking "Troll". If you really know what the word means. In fact, up untill this thread, I'd be surprised if I even used that word 3X in over 2000 posts- because its not meant to be a Noun. It's a verb.
I was just gonna ask if "troller" shouldn't be the correct term then...
On June 11 2010 00:21 Chill wrote: Metagame is coming up next.
Oh my lord, yes. Just yes. Ever since that one day I popped in Mystlord's stream and saw everyone using the word meta in every single freaking word, I've been waiting. Make it happen!
I thought Chill was already on top of this one? I remember his sig being Do you know what metagame means? Do you really? Or something to that effect. Anyway, agreed. It is horribly misused and just generally over-used.
On June 10 2010 23:13 7mk wrote: Wtf.. I was gonna link to fanatacist's guide to trolling but he edited it and removed the whole thing.. T_T
Anyways, fully agree with this, theres way too many examples like seppolevne posted, let the banhammer fly... didnt know about the origin coming from fishing thats funny (and lol at trolling/trawling)
i miss that article, it was pure gold. it was actually the very first article i ever read on TL haha.
i wish i knew what happened to paper and decafchicken and which thread they got their respective bans though
On June 11 2010 03:45 elmizzt wrote: Thank you for this, Intrigue. Thank you so much. It's about damn time.
Amen. It was getting annoying reading threads and when someone runs out of points to argue or has a differing opinion, you'd see them go, "are you just trolling?"
I think we should just ban people at random once a week. Every poster has a number, and an RNG selects the one to get temp banned for a week. It would make this forum more interesting. I would willing participate if at least 50 other people said they would too.
On June 10 2010 23:13 7mk wrote: Wtf.. I was gonna link to fanatacist's guide to trolling but he edited it and removed the whole thing.. T_T
Anyways, fully agree with this, theres way too many examples like seppolevne posted, let the banhammer fly... didnt know about the origin coming from fishing thats funny (and lol at trolling/trawling)
i miss that article, it was pure gold. it was actually the very first article i ever read on TL haha.
i wish i knew what happened to paper and decafchicken and which thread they got their respective bans though
You can just go to their profile and check their recent posts... wouldn't take more than a few minutes to find a recent ban.
On June 11 2010 04:52 Boblion wrote: I think it was really informative but i still wonder if CharlieMurphy is a troll. You should make a case analysis.
On June 10 2010 21:20 Aurdon wrote: throughout the entire Rant in the OP, all I could keep thinking is when is this poster ever going to use a capital letter to start a sentence. Interesting that moderation would go so far to boot 'Troll' misusers, but not using such a common rule to sentence structure kind of 'makes you, me, and the site look dumb.'
I'm kind of confused by this new 'policy.'
really though, do you feel that someone who posts intelligently but without capitalization brings down the quality of forums and threads? i find that half a page at a time of people calling each other "trolls" is much more harmful.
If you would like, I could start typing properly all the time. That'd be what kids today call "cramping my style" though.
for those of you who cannot conquer the Analogy Obstacle Course, an internet troll (the ship captain) in his Internet Locomotive Device aka his computer (the boat) will make troll posts (the fishing bait) and watch as his victims are dragged in any direction he chooses.
What does this mean? if you call someone a troll because you've had a heated argument with them, that means you just got all mad and fussed up by someone who did it just to entertain themselves, and that just makes you fucking stupid. think about what happens to fish after they are trolled!
OMG... lol...
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote:
that just makes you fucking stupid.
this definitely made my day... what a punch line...
On June 11 2010 00:21 Chill wrote: Metagame is coming up next.
Oh my lord, yes. Just yes. Ever since that one day I popped in Mystlord's stream and saw everyone using the word meta in every single freaking word, I've been waiting. Make it happen!
Mh I dont know, we already had threads about what it actually means and at least since Nony's thread I think the majority of people on tl have understood what it means by now. Plus I dont actually see the word used that often
On June 11 2010 01:44 koreasilver wrote: "Cheese".
OH GOD YES PLEASE
i'm SO sick of all the noobs calling EVERY KIND of non standard play "cheese", that's so annoying. Flash goes 14cc -> economic cheese (WTF?); Effort masses lings -> also cheese, of course, what else
On June 11 2010 05:20 intrigue wrote: If you would like, I could start typing properly all the time. That'd be what kids today call "cramping my style" though.
Kids? Cramping your style?
I'd imagine that's how I would feel if I was being dictated to the manner and context in which a word that is already being used out of context is to be used.
On June 11 2010 05:20 intrigue wrote: If you would like, I could start typing properly all the time. That'd be what kids today call "cramping my style" though.
Kids? Cramping your style?
I'd imagine that's how I would feel if I was being dictated to the manner and context in which a word that is already being used out of context is to be used.
your first two sentences were nice but the third one is waaay long and shitty
On June 11 2010 04:52 Boblion wrote: I think it was really informative but i still wonder if CharlieMurphy is a troll. You should make a case analysis.
On June 11 2010 01:44 koreasilver wrote: "Cheese".
OH GOD YES PLEASE
i'm SO sick of all the noobs calling EVERY KIND of non standard play "cheese", that's so annoying. Flash goes 14cc -> economic cheese (WTF?); Effort masses lings -> also cheese, of course, what else
On June 11 2010 05:20 intrigue wrote: If you would like, I could start typing properly all the time. That'd be what kids today call "cramping my style" though.
Kids? Cramping your style?
I'd imagine that's how I would feel if I was being dictated to the manner and context in which a word that is already being used out of context is to be used.
okay i get it you don't like how this seems so trivial and pet-peevish. but i really do think it'll increase the quality of the forums.
i think part of your disapproval may be because you feel like i am targeting you specifically, because of posts like these:
On January 29 2010 06:53 Energies wrote: I just realised, all it would take for a Romanian to troll us all would be to change his country to anything else other than Romanian and just start posting as he normally would.
(completely incorrect usage) but i'm not. i don't have any grudge against someone who uses this word incorrectly, it's a very common mistake. if my blog prevents even 10 potential posts accusing posters of being "trolls", it will have been worth it.
every mod has some things they are particularly watchful against and this is just one of mine. for the record i have never corrected someone on spelling or grammar, i really don't give a fuck. but this directly harms the forums.
Troll is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a message board which transcends a prescribed commonality, uses external factors to affect the conversation, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the topic starter. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metatroll
What is the prescribed ruleset? Textual limitations only? Where does it stop. Notice how it says "supposed limits". These limits may be different for you and I.The OP gives examples such as, is this thread a troll, are you trolling me etc. Makes sense. I believe that the trolling concept only works if there is a goal attached however, a reason for trolling, which then I can assume is to piss everyone off. Again it's logical for me to say, you won't agree with me, because the lack of necessity for understanding the definition of troll gives everyone elbow room to define their own understanding. I hope this resonates with someone.
On June 11 2010 05:20 intrigue wrote: If you would like, I could start typing properly all the time. That'd be what kids today call "cramping my style" though.
Kids? Cramping your style?
I'd imagine that's how I would feel if I was being dictated to the manner and context in which a word that is already being used out of context is to be used.
okay i get it you don't like how this seems so trivial and pet-peevish. but i really do think it'll increase the quality of the forums.
i think part of your disapproval may be because you feel like i am targeting you specifically, because of posts like these:
On January 29 2010 06:53 Energies wrote: I just realised, all it would take for a Romanian to troll us all would be to change his country to anything else other than Romanian and just start posting as he normally would.
(completely incorrect usage) but i'm not. i don't have any grudge against someone who uses this word incorrectly, it's a very common mistake. if my blog prevents even 10 potential posts accusing posters of being "trolls", it will have been worth it.
every mod has some things they are particularly watchful against and this is just one of mine. for the record i have never corrected someone on spelling or grammar, i really don't give a fuck. but this directly harms the forums.
I think that post is actually a pretty good example where the literal meaning of the word was not used, but I believe it makes sense in the context. It just goes to show the flexibility of words so you can't necessarily restrict the use.
In saying that I completely agree with what you are saying in terms of the word being abused. I just feel that people respond a lot better to a diplomatic approach.
I love this blog, and it really is true. Honestly this applies to so many more terms than just troll where people use a word or phrase and either use it completely wrong, have no idea where it came from, or both. Another example is QQ for crying eyes. In HON, people do that all the time, and it drives me nuts. QQ is not crying eyes.
Wait, when the hell did we ban Bonjwa? I don't recall that happening. I was never 100% on what metagame was so I never used it, I was under the impression it leaned towards what the general strategy was at that time, like most common builds and strategies, which were the accepted ideas on what is most efficient outside the game, which changes over time as people adapt.
Whatever, I never use any of these three words, but I see bonjwa in any thread with flash and occasionally Jaedong, where was that established/not enforced?
So if you don't want someone who is being a dick to be called out as a troll can we simply point out that he is playing devil's advocate?
On June 11 2010 23:36 JinNJuice wrote: I love this blog, and it really is true. Honestly this applies to so many more terms than just troll where people use a word or phrase and either use it completely wrong, have no idea where it came from, or both. Another example is QQ for crying eyes. In HON, people do that all the time, and it drives me nuts. QQ is not crying eyes.
This is simply another example as to how words can evolve. QQ is now used to imply that someone is crying/raging. I mean, didn't Southpark just cover this very topic with the word "fag"???
On June 12 2010 02:45 Scorcher2k wrote: So if you don't want someone who is being a dick to be called out as a troll can we simply point out that he is playing devil's advocate?
On June 11 2010 23:36 JinNJuice wrote: I love this blog, and it really is true. Honestly this applies to so many more terms than just troll where people use a word or phrase and either use it completely wrong, have no idea where it came from, or both. Another example is QQ for crying eyes. In HON, people do that all the time, and it drives me nuts. QQ is not crying eyes.
This is simply another example as to how words can evolve. QQ is now used to imply that someone is crying/raging. I mean, didn't Southpark just cover this very topic with the word "fag"???
Idk, I don't really watch South Park so I don't know what you're referring to. But a word can evolve, just not in a completely different meaning. QQ is supposed to mean, "you're bad just quit the game," not "you're bad so QQ more." How can someone QQ more anyways. That's the kind of stuff that I mean.
I think most the trollcalling comes from people posting something they disagree with so much that the other person seems so absolutely stupid that to the trollee, the only reason for them to say something that stupid is for them to be trolling. But sometimes, people are actually that stupid.
On June 12 2010 02:45 Scorcher2k wrote: So if you don't want someone who is being a dick to be called out as a troll can we simply point out that he is playing devil's advocate?
On June 11 2010 23:36 JinNJuice wrote: I love this blog, and it really is true. Honestly this applies to so many more terms than just troll where people use a word or phrase and either use it completely wrong, have no idea where it came from, or both. Another example is QQ for crying eyes. In HON, people do that all the time, and it drives me nuts. QQ is not crying eyes.
This is simply another example as to how words can evolve. QQ is now used to imply that someone is crying/raging. I mean, didn't Southpark just cover this very topic with the word "fag"???
Idk, I don't really watch South Park so I don't know what you're referring to. But a word can evolve, just not in a completely different meaning. QQ is supposed to mean, "you're bad just quit the game," not "you're bad so QQ more." How can someone QQ more anyways. That's the kind of stuff that I mean.
Ah, but that isn't that much of a jump. Assume that people don't "GG" when they alt+q+q. This leads people to tell others, "I was wrecking him so hard he QQed out." Someone then makes a joke that the loser QQed and was raging/crying. Now the term is accepted as being a substitute for telling someone to go rage/cry. Then someone makes the joke that the QQ is the subsequent QQers crying eyes...
I dunno but to me it doesn't seem like that far of a reach. Things that used to bother me are things like "pwn". You know that the word was only a frigin typo and someone claimed that it was 1337 speak.
really though, do you feel that someone who posts intelligently but without capitalization brings down the quality of forums and threads? i find that half a page at a time of people calling each other "trolls" is much more harmful.
If you want people to take the big rules seriously, you have to enforce the little ones. Leading by example and all that.
And for some people, it is a much bigger deal than improper use of Internet slang. Generally, as you point out, the improper use is due to simply memetic mutation: casual use that transforms the apparent meaning of a word. It's not like they're knowingly and willingly violating an English grammatical rule that go back centuries or something
We all have our pet-peeve words that get used wrong. For example, I find the current predilection towards using "sick" as a positive construct literally nauseous (I associate "sick" with feeling nauseous, so when people use it to describe something good, I feel nauseous).
Idk, I don't really watch South Park so I don't know what you're referring to. But a word can evolve, just not in a completely different meaning. QQ is supposed to mean, "you're bad just quit the game," not "you're bad so QQ more." How can someone QQ more anyways. That's the kind of stuff that I mean.
That's just how language works. There was a point in time when "bad" meant "good." For some reason nowadays, people say "sick" when they mean something went well or is good. It's total nonsense, but languages change and evolve. Languages are defined by how a word gets used, not by dictionaries.
I don't know what I hate more, people throwing around the word troll or someone misspelling 3-4 words, not capitalizing words at the begining of a sentence, and misusing punctuation all while calling everyone else in a huge rant stupid.
On June 12 2010 22:54 Competent wrote: I don't know what I hate more, people throwing around the word troll or someone misspelling 3-4 words, not capitalizing words at the begining of a sentence, and misusing punctuation all while calling everyone else in a huge rant stupid.
Now watch, I get banned because I am right.
User was temp banned for this post.
aw yeah the only way to make any point is to martyr yourself, 10/10
As a nitpicking, English-obsessive tit, I still find it sad and unnecessary for people to pick on errors in spelling, punctuation, syntax, or usage in a forum argument (unless so lax as to obfuscate all meaning). It feels like the last resort for someone who has nowhere to go in a discussion/argument/whatever.
re: intrigue, I think he thinks that you correcting usage while not capitalizing the first word after every period is not... competent.
I also wanted to find a way to make a post using the words "trollop," "bone-dry," and meta-anything, but oh well.
regardless of origins, the term now has broader meaning accepted among the majority who use it. i just interpret it as someone messing with you or a certain situation in order to draw attention to themselves.
On June 13 2010 12:33 eMbrace wrote: regardless of origins, the term now has broader meaning accepted among the majority who use it. i just interpret it as someone messing with you or a certain situation in order to draw attention to themselves.
even this broader definition is not how people say it on the forums, they use it as a substitute for "i disagree with you" or "you're stupid"
Feels good to know the definition of trolling alredy, but I have a legit question.
what if I was like "man he be trolling" when in fact i was talking about trolls in Warcraft. Not seeing how this would happen or any situation where I would say this or want to, but just curious.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good perogative. Been called a troll several times when I've been 100% sincere. People say stuff like "lol don't feed troll he's just trolling" every time you disagree with another person. These people are just out to start internet fights and are too stupid to partake in the true trolling experience. However much I dislike "good trolling" online atleast those people put effort into what they do. Kids screaming obscenities and proclaiming themselves trolls like they did something impressive are pathetic and I'm glad TL is taking a stand towards these unintelligeble remarks.
On June 14 2010 14:15 bjornkavist wrote: Feels good to know the definition of trolling alredy, but I have a legit question.
what if I was like "man he be trolling" when in fact i was talking about trolls in Warcraft. Not seeing how this would happen or any situation where I would say this or want to, but just curious.
well then you'd be banned for being a newb, since who the hell makes headhunters in warcraft III
On June 14 2010 14:15 bjornkavist wrote: Feels good to know the definition of trolling alredy, but I have a legit question.
what if I was like "man he be trolling" when in fact i was talking about trolls in Warcraft. Not seeing how this would happen or any situation where I would say this or want to, but just curious.
well then you'd be banned for being a newb, since who the hell makes headhunters in warcraft III
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: please, please please STOP THROWING AROUND THE WORD "TROLL" when you don't understand what it means.
Stop insulting our intelligence. The majority of people know what "troll" means in the context of the internet by now. Especially those who post regularly on forums.
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: most of you reading this who just said to yourselves, "this does not apply to me, i know how to use that word" do not in fact know how to use that word. it makes you look dumb, makes me look dumb, makes our forums look dumb, and thus gradually decreases your chances of mating with cute TAs that you never thought were that cute but then you glimped them with their glasses off accidentally and realized they were actually super hot AND smart but she reads teamliquid and thinks you're dumb because you can't use a basic internet term correctly. that's incentive to read the following:
I think run-on sentences like these are more detrimental to the perceived intelligence of the TL community than calling people trolls. Also, that wasn't even remotely funny.
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: "trolling" does NOT include obvious bantering and/or joking and/or having simply contrary viewpoints and/or having simply earnest and stupid opinions.
You just named most of the methods used by trolls. I like how you had to use qualifiers such as "simply" to try to make it seem like this statement could be true.
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: it is a word adopted from this term:
Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water.
source wikipedia (yeah that means i know damn well what i'm talking about) this means the fish here are being trolled, which okay yeah it's pretty funny.
for those of you who cannot conquer the Analogy Obstacle Course, an internet troll (the ship captain) in his Internet Locomotive Device aka his computer (the boat) will make troll posts (the fishing bait) and watch as his victims are dragged in any direction he chooses.
Insulting the reader's intelligence again...
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: What does this mean? if you call someone a troll because you've had a heated argument with them, that means you just got all mad and fussed up by someone who did it just to entertain themselves, and that just makes you fucking stupid. think about what happens to fish after they are trolled!
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: that last one is also because starting now temp bans will be handed out by me for blatant misuse, like "is this thread a troll? r u a trolling me??? qxD dxDDDDDD"
Calling someone a troll is not exclusively dependent on being mad at them. Most people try to have a reasonable argument with someone, and when it becomes clear that the troll is trying to troll, then they unemotionally dismiss that person as a troll. By the way, the first quote has nothing to do with the second quote. Who would write that if they were legitimately pissed off? Without context, you cannot call your example "blatant misuse" of the word troll.
Stop insulting our intelligence. The majority of people know what "troll" means in the context of the internet by now. Especially those who post regularly on forums.
really? really really?
You just named most of the methods used by trolls. I like how you had to use qualifiers such as "simply" to try to make it seem like this statement could be true.
trolls use obvious bantering and/or joking and/or having simply contrary viewpoints and/or having simply earnest and stupid opinions as a way of... inciting reactions? you serious?
and when it becomes clear that the troll is trying to troll, then they unemotionally dismiss that person as a troll
i read this and i immediately realized what the problem was. looking at your post history confirms it! this thread hits a bit too close to home for you because you are exactly the audience this was meant for. you still don't understand what it means, do you? let's take a look.
On May 27 2010 17:35 Mooga wrote: KeSPA has to be a troll.
in a thread about gom and blizzard signing a deal. yeah kespa intentionally let negotiations fall through with blizzard just to piss everyone off. 0/10
On March 23 2009 01:16 Mooga wrote: I just started reading this thread. lol at inc trying to troll us in a thread about trolling xD
no, voicing common complaints about klazart != trolling, especially since TL posters were quite anti-klazart at the time. 0/10
On December 14 2008 10:32 Rus_Brain wrote: Recently everyone is able to ask Ukrainian President about something We (reps.ru) have prepared the following question: Lee Myung-bak, президент кореи любит поиграть в StarCraft, почему вы не играете в StarCraft ? = Lee Myung-bak Korean president likes to play StarCraft, why you dont like to play StarCraft? Please, help this question to be asked :D http://president.pravda.com.ua/internet/4942e445ec545/
Oh, so that's what russians do in their spare time: troll ukraine
lol
oh, so that's what "trolling" means: making an obvious joke. 0/20
On June 14 2009 13:24 Mooga wrote: I have 2 dormant troll accounts on this website with dynamic IPs.
Interesting that neither was created while you were banned.
I create troll accounts preemptively
let's get this straight, so you are saying that before you start participating on a website you make accounts to "troll" with in the event your main one is banned? what?
On October 23 2008 09:51 Mooga wrote: So... how much does one have to troll to get banned?
5 post count 'Ldra' makes a post about having a gf, yes that isn't obviously a joke or anything. not a single person in that thread got mad, everyone was 'haha'-ing. terrible
On October 08 2008 03:08 Mooga wrote: There are a lot of people in this thread who are either pussyhurt or have no sense of humor. What they don't understand about the hilarity of this situation is the shear amount of naivety it takes to get trolled hard by this thread; that, in itself, is priceless.
irony, 10/10
On June 24 2008 12:30 Mooga wrote: wow scorpion, your posts are completely unoriginal. you fail as a troll
this one was excusable because scorpion is stupid and it's hard to tell the difference, but of course you had to add in a shitty meme.
On May 28 2010 09:41 Conquest101 wrote: If you buy their game, you need to agree to their terms. Otherwise, don't buy it. Simple.
Blizzard isn't claiming that you can't modify files on your hard drive if you buy their game. They're claiming that you can't modify their game if you agree to their terms of use. You know that agreement you say you read and understand when you install the game.
You purchased those bits on your hard drive, you can do what you want with them.
Haha this has to be a troll.
User was warned for this post
no
On June 16 2009 15:18 Mooga wrote: I found a counter-troll article to the article I posted above. It's more subtle trolling, and not quite as funny but it still gets the job done. Fanboy war!!! WOOOOO!!!
counter-troll? do you mean 'a review written in a joking manner?'
you use the word incorrectly in almost every single instance. i call you out on using your favorite word terribly, so you tell me i'm not funny and point out my obviously intentional run-on sentence. yeah you sure showed me!
you know what? i make it a point not to ban people i argue with, because that's just plain not classy and seems like an abuse of power. i'm a person too though, i don't have to put up with being "called out" when the person doing it is petty and entirely wrong.
its funny seeing everyone on the ban list being referred to this thread. judging from the rapidly increasing list of bans, its a big problem. and ROFL at counter-troll, it reminds me of t and ct from cs
I still don't get how you make the difference between someone having ridiculous opinions and a troll.
I mean how can you be sure that the guy isn't trolling ? I know that some people are genuinely stupid but a good troll will try to look like them to be even more effective. For people with 500+ posts who have an history it is quite easy to know if they are serious/joking/trolling but with the afflux of new members it is really hard to tell... especially with the multi account trend.
If it wasn't for his posting history... that was so over the top I might have thought he was actually trolling since he was just saying things that made little sense solely to set intrigue off hahaha
Is it possible that this term has come to simply mean "ugly, or bad mannered?" It seems to me that everyone in chat is 'fishing' for a response, why else comment? So, i guess i'm still kinda confused about the true meaning of the term and that's why I'll never use it. I would also never call someone an effing idiot either cuz that is clearly offensive.
Nvm, i get it now. "Off-topic and provocative post"... kinda like this one. =)
On June 15 2010 15:34 Boblion wrote: I still don't get how you make the difference between someone having ridiculous opinions and a troll.
I mean how can you be sure that the guy isn't trolling ? I know that some people are genuinely stupid but a good troll will try to look like them to be even more effective. For people with 500+ posts who have an history it is quite easy to know if they are serious/joking/trolling but with the afflux of new members it is really hard to tell... especially with the multi account trend.
Ideally you try not to reply to posts that are either stupid or provocative. One of the hardest lessons to learn on the internet From the day you're born you're told to respect other people opinions and engage in civilized discussion with them. All through school a part of your grade is decided by your participation. Then you learn in the real world that it's just not worth it. And so, like me, you might choose to mock people subtly anytime you don't respect what they're saying (practically trolling, since they don't realise it), or just plain give up.
Really, the only reason to respond to someone you think is stupid is to make yourself feel superior. It's kind of pitiful, when I think about it. You never actually make the person you're talking to smarter. They do that on their own in the coming months of budding maturity.
On June 15 2010 15:34 Boblion wrote: I still don't get how you make the difference between someone having ridiculous opinions and a troll.
I mean how can you be sure that the guy isn't trolling ? I know that some people are genuinely stupid but a good troll will try to look like them to be even more effective. For people with 500+ posts who have an history it is quite easy to know if they are serious/joking/trolling but with the afflux of new members it is really hard to tell... especially with the multi account trend.
Ideally you try not to reply to posts that are either stupid or provocative. One of the hardest lessons to learn on the internet From the day you're born you're told to respect other people opinions and engage in civilized discussion with them. All through school a part of your grade is decided by your participation. Then you learn in the real world that it's just not worth it. And so, like me, you might choose to mock people subtly anytime you don't respect what they're saying (practically trolling, since they don't realise it), or just plain give up.
Really, the only reason to respond to someone you think is stupid is to make yourself feel superior. It's kind of pitiful, when I think about it. You never actually make the person you're talking to smarter. They do that on their own in the coming months of budding maturity.
Wow that's a grim outlook you have there haha... at the very least you can help people who say 'dumb' things... obviously just arguing and then flaming each other isn't productive but not everyone is a lost cause either. You can help people to understand stuff sometimes.
I think people only want to listen when they're asking a question, or they're a close friend that trusts you.
Imagine a stranger who believes in homeopathy. Imagine arguing with that person. The conversation almost certainly ends with 'well you do what you do, and I'll do what I do.' ie: waste of time. You could try imagining a close friend who believes in homeopathy, but those usually only exist if you believe in it too.
I kind of find it funny when people imagine a close friend who is like the opposite of them, and that they have spurred debates yet can still be great friends. I call these people delusional.
Ok, I gotta admit it took me quite some time to get the point of the bans or even this topic. If it was not for the witnessed bans I would still be thinking the whole thread was a troll. Seriously, I feel like you all might have been joking and I just took the bait big time. The whole approach does not make any sense at all as I will try to show.
Sorry about the mere size of the post, but other people trying to state my point have been banned. So I´d like to make sure to make it myself.
Here´s what happened:
My first angle was:
1. The misuse of the word itself. Troll deriving from the rpg class instead of the fishing technique. Troll meaning the post, not the person trolling.
There is absolutely no misuse (any more. or at least soon enough). As Nicolbolas pointed out language evolves. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2010 11:51 NicolBolas wrote: That's just how language works. There was a point in time when "bad" meant "good." For some reason nowadays, people say "sick" when they mean something went well or is good. It's total nonsense, but languages change and evolve. Languages are defined by how a word gets used, not by dictionaries.
If the masses feel the word originated from WoW-beings and have no clue about the true origin this does ironically make their use of the word right as soon as the misuses prevail. The mere convenience of an Rpg-Troll also being a nasty being you dislike and by some magic coincidence consisting of the same letters the usage of the word is just doomed to shift in this way.
No, wait! I think it´s happening already: http://kb.iu.edu/data/afhc.html The term can also refer to someone making such a posting ("a troll") or to the action ("trolling", "to troll"). But on the other hand their post is roughly 2 weeks old and might be corrected soon. But even if the creator of the thread just made a mistake on a university site this by itself points to the shift being in progress.
So if your mission is saving the dictionary. 0/10, but gl anyways.
My next thought was:
2. Troll posts DO interfere with constructive forum discussion in a very annoying way. Stupid Fish feed Trolls (oops, used it wrong but somehow it feels natural already) and therefore a pre-emptive strike against all fish is a fine idea to get rid of the Trolls.
I am not even commenting on that so lets get to:
3. Yet more disturbing are false accusations. Since there is no counter-argument to "I just think You are not being honest or serious" there is no way of a fertile discussion. Besides it just makes me sick. And by that i mean the bad "sick", not the "Whoa, I just saw boxer micro for the first time - sick shit"-sick.
Now we get to the point. This is it, right? The core of all this anger.
But anger leads to hate. And hate leads to suffering.
So let us follow just one chain of thought:
Situation A: Someone posts an obvious troll. Every discussion about trolling suggests the following solution: "Just ignore the bugger. Getting you mad/annoyed/overly-logically-responding is just what he wants. Most constructive is to ignore and live in peace happily everafter"
On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: What does this mean? if you call someone a troll because you've had a heated argument with them, that means you just got all mad and fussed up by someone who did it just to entertain themselves, and that just makes you fucking stupid. think about what happens to fish after they are trolled!
What do we do? bad trolls are very obvious, so calling them trolls is obnoxious like that overeager kid in the front row of class. ignore them. good trolls are harder to tell apart, but as long as you stay calm and don't take yourself too seriously (aka not biting their bait) you will survive unscathed.
Situation B: Person1 posts an honest post. Person2 has a so different opinion that the whole post just seems counter-logical, dishonest and/or straightforward trolling to him. Since he can not resist he states something like "lol, are you kidding me?" or (behold! now he uses the t-word) "you are trolling, right?"
If i follow Your logic Person2 will receive a ban regardless of the possibility Person1 was in fact trolling? Did i get that right? Does he also get banned when he says "r u kidding me?" or does he have to use the t-word?
Let us assume I was Person1 in that situation (and did not troll him):
- Ok, here is someone I will have a long time arguing with if I start to. Since I want to state my point I argue for a long long time and after an eternity I realize noone else is following my thread since for 3 pages all that was said was "I do"-"No You dont"-"Yes I do"- ... 0/10
- Or I could whine because I am just pissed off by the inflationary use of the word trolling lately. I am sick of the countless discussions being in vain because of such stupid accusations. Whoa, finally someone is banning these annoying fags. 0/10
- OR i could remember the solution to Situation A, GROW SOME BALLS AND JUST IGNORE THE POST and continue the discussion with the rest of the community. 9/10 (-1 from the ego department)
Was this the Philosopher´s stone? I do not see any counterargument, but feel free to enlighten me!
***** Now some questions directly 4 Intrigue:
On what basis besides "because I can" do you ban these people?
- Because it is in the rules?
Searching the forum for "forum rules" (titles only, all forums) results in exactly 3 topics. Can not find anything in there.
- Because they make the forum annoying and unusable?
I would much rather take the risk of some false accusations wich can easily be ignored than abandon free speech. It is a forum ffs. free speech is kinda the point. This is also the point why the whole banning issue annoys me to the point of writing this. Switching the angle a little I could instead have written a good text about Trolling vs Terrorism and sold it to a newspaper.
- Because you are just too annoyed by troll posts and their effect on the forum?
Then friggin aim for the whaler, not the fish (y, i know, mammal) or the trimaran! Seriously, if we are supposed to ignore troll posts for the greater good it might also be a good idea to ignore troll-accusing-posts for the same reason. Otherwise You are handing out freebies to all them actual trolls that might be coming.
- Or is it seriously because you are just annoyed by some people mis-guessing the origin of the word and using it in the not-yet-approved manner?
Can not actually follow. Nope, doesn´t work. Flame them all you want but throwing bans like candy seems kinda abusive.
*****
Gratz to anyone who cared to make it this far.
Now I am really curious whether I get banned or not. Just to make that clear: No, I am not trolling.
And if my feeling is right and this is just some crazy "lets have some fun because these uneducated bastards get on our nerves"-thang please solve the mistery, I am getting conspiracy hunches by now. And before I forget it: Even if it is just fun stop it anyway. It might be Your playground but this senceless censorship is ++ un-good.
dervetter I have no idea what this broken wall of text is supposed to be telling us. Couldn't you just have said "But I like to misuse the word trolling and I don't think it's a big deal"?
- Because you are just too annoyed by troll posts and their effect on the forum? No, because we absolutely love genuine good trolling. And this forum has had its share. And employs some of the best trolls on the internet on staff. They naturally don't like it when their art is wrongfully attributed to any generic post someone didn't agree with.
Other than that, you may have searched for forum rules, you certainly didn't read them though, as shown by your reference to Free Speech and the martyr attitude towards the end of your post.
you think i enjoy banning people? do you know how aggravating i find it? it may seem heavy-handed but i honestly think the bans i hand out will in the long run maintain the quality of the forums. nobody remembers nice little suggestions to post better here and there, but picking one topic and 2daying (a ban length that is negligible but still significant) people for it leaves an impression on the collective TL community.
if you find any ban you think is unjust, you can discuss it here. until then, implying that i ban for fun is just a baseless attack on me, not on TL's moderation.
also, from how self-righteous and entitled you sound it is obvious you haven't read this. get over your martyr attitude, nobody gets banned for intelligently and civilly stating an opinion. look on the last page for an example of what does get someone banned.
edit: it's not like i'm randomly blanket banning the word entirely. i expressly state that. if it's not used in an outright stupid manner, i could not care less.
Well, I never checked this nonsense til now. I did appreciate the boat picture; I like boats. But you wiki troll but not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ... That's a more thorough education. cmon... CMON.
I don't see the big deal. It's only words. Words are sooo overrated. I mean, imagine cyberspace without words. Wowuuu...speechless
I did read the forum rules, but did not follow the "your first post should be in here"-advise. It was some time ago and this is not the only forum. Actually felt kinda strange not finding forum rules.
A simple thread named "forum rules" linking to it would help i guess.
Had I found them the whole post would´ve been much shorter.
Sorry if I sounded a little "jacking of in front of the mirror and sending myself flowers afterwards" or simply pissed you off.
Until now I honestly had no clue what the bans were actually aiming at. Still kinda fuzzy but since You´re boss ...
Still dont like the policy though.
But the whole thing does not seem to be such a giant red rag to you as it appeared. I guess i was just overreacting on (perceived) overreacting.
Well the funny part about Trendy things, is people often use words and terms just because everyone else uses em...Infact i am sure there are some people that dont even know what " lol " Stands for other than use it instead of " haha "cuz its Trendy...Apparently I just eciently seen people using the "troll" term like...the past year or 2? i never seen it used like 5 years ago... So obviously the OP is justified, I see People throwing that word around senselessly More as a Bully Tactic to people who dont even understand what it means either, I have never used the Word troll because it is trendy and i have a larger vocabulary of words at my disposal..
But yeah this is good info i never really understood what it meant "by internet chat" purposes I just assumed it was meant to bully people that dont have the same opinions, cuz thats the context i see it...As for the real definition it think it should stay at Sea and not on forums heh
On June 10 2010 21:56 Patriot.dlk wrote: Read and I liked it. The most annoying is when someone is proven wrong or get no backup and turns to "I WAS TROLLING LOLO"
You know i completely agree with this. Obviously it seems as if merely using the word "troll" incites anger. Under team liquid rules it should state "no starting fights/useless arguments" More should be done inorder to curve the whole "TROLLING" stupidity epidemic. Admins.... please get to work.. Deny all the trolls and those who abuse the word.
Well you can't prevent the word Troll to take on a different meaning. That's how the internet works.
What to think of Leet, which according to the dictionary means: a yearly or half-yearly court of record that the lords of certain manors held in England. Well that sure has nothing to do with anything.
@TexasLawDog Did you know that in Dutch "lol" literally means: "fun" ? :-)
On July 14 2010 04:53 poopiebutt wrote: You know i completely agree with this. Obviously it seems as if merely using the word "troll" incites anger. Under team liquid rules it should state "no starting fights/useless arguments" More should be done inorder to curve the whole "TROLLING" stupidity epidemic. Admins.... please get to work.. Deny all the trolls and those who abuse the word.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.wildplanetfoods.com/images/trolling_pic.png)
![[image loading]](http://img.moronail.net/img/8/6/1286.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.rpgminiatures.com/acatalog/MountainTroll.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.overtons.com/assets/images/products/medium/201078_M1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Al%20Gore%20Global%20Warming/SaveThePlanet.jpg)
