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Zurich15325 Posts
After work shopping can be tricky. Catch the wrong time, and you will be locked into the store for half an hour.
There are 5 prayer hours a day, during which everything shuts down. By law. And I mean everything. If you are just in the store and about to pay and leave when the Muezzin begins to sing – tough luck! If the store is nice they will warn you a couple of minutes before. If not, they will just close the door and you are stuck while the believers disappear in the prayer room, which every public place has.
Of course, all menial labor is done by immigrants who overwhelmingly are not pious Muslims. So, you and the Bangladeshi cashier will stand there looking at each other at the register for 30 minutes until prayer time is over. Then life resumes and they are allowed to let you pay for your groceries.
So far I only once couldn’t make it out of the store in time, but had to rush my shopping often enough. One time I was stuck at a gas station when the serviceman just left into the prayer room in the middle of filling gas and we had to wait until we could pay and leave.
While this country is a classic dictatorship in every conceivable way, it is one entirely projected through religion. Religion is omnipresent and rules social and public life.
Islam is the only accepted religion, and all citizens must be Muslims. Practicing any other religion publicly is a criminal offense and may be punished harshly. This extends to factions within Islam as well – Shia are not allowed to proselytize within the country.
There is hardly any written code of criminal law. Official law is the Sharia, respectively the Sharia interpretations by the religious courts. Punishment is taken from Sharia as well, and is just as barbaric as you would expect from a law book taken straight from the dark ages. Corporal punishment, beheadings, amputation of hands and feet, floggings are all accepted and practiced form of punishment for criminal offenses, so it should be said that amputations are less and less used in favor of flogging.
Last week a pilgrim from Lebanon was arrested and sentenced to death – for witchcraft. He was a professional tarot card reader at home. The death penalty extends to armed robbery, murder, rape, homosexual activity, prostitution, drug trafficking and adultery.
Executions are done by the use of the sword, and are public, except for the execution of minors. “Chop chop square” in the capital is most notorious for its public executions.
However, in the case of murder or bodily harm the afflicted family may seek retribution in the form of blood money instead of just blood. Usually a woman’s or Christian’s life is valued at ½ of that of a male Muslim. Everyone else’s is worth 1/16th.
The discrimination non citizens face in court extends to other areas of law as well. There is a very generous minimal wage – for Muslim citizens only though. Immigrants often have to hand over their passports and visa to their employer, and are thus completely at their mercy. Unwanted workers are just not given their documents back and are reported as illegal immigrants. Which means the whip and jail or deportation for them.
Drug trafficking is a constant hot topic. Exact numbers about the amount of smuggling and use there really is are not public, but each year dozens are executed for trafficking. The government prides itself as the most successful worldwide in fighting drugs, boasting numbers like 95% of all amphetamines confiscated worldwide are seized by its own agents.
Alcohol is considered a drug as well, although punishment is not as harsh. Still, consumption will get you jail for months and hundreds of lashes. Trafficking can get you behind bars for years.
Yet the country is one of the biggest importers of scotch – an estimated 1-2 million bottles are smuggled into the country each year, about ¼ of it over a single road I take each weekend to the neighboring country. Out car gets searched almost every time, although not too thoroughly to be honest.
A bottle of spirit sells for $100-$200 on the black market. For all the crackdowns alcohol is still regularly consumed, a lot of it in the sanctity of corporate housing compounds where the authorities turn a blind eye.
These rather sad facts are especially striking if you keep in mind that this is in large parts a modern country. Apart from the inevitable mosques everywhere and the different architecture, this place looks just like Southern California. It borders at surrealism when, driving among all the Toyota and GMC SUVs you read in the daily paper “Public flogging tomorrow noon in front of downtown McDonald’s”. And I am not making this up, I read this the first week I was here.
What may be also surprising to the ignorant Western mind is that the normal citizen is supportive, if not proud of their strict and ordered society. If anything the general public wants less modernization, and more sheltering from Western influenced deemed bad.
Also there is not the slightest sign of people being unsupportive of the dictatorship, or yearning for political representation. Of course they might just be extra careful to not show discontent with their situation to a foreigner, but I certainly have never seen or heard from anyone really opposing the government or its policies. And this is not because of fear or something like that. This isn’t Soviet Russia, you see no oppression in everyday life at all, and people are very open generally.
The line “they are not ready for democracy” is wrong. It seems they just couldn’t care less.
Previous entries:
Women
Traffic
 
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United States12607 Posts
fascinating blog. The world is a wild place, and learning more about it usually makes me curious, but thankful to live in a Western country.
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
I liked how while including your opinions on the strict punishment system, you made sure to include how the citizens don't feel oppressed or feel that the system must be changed. Gives a clear three dimensional look.
Enjoying your entries and the insight they give... it's always enlightening to hear about other nations that still have such completely different, "old" political systems run by religion... it's not even that they're backwards or less "modern", since as you said, the place looks like Socal.
Anyway, looking forward to more~
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United States12607 Posts
On May 05 2010 23:14 Smix wrote:
it's not even that they're backwards or less "modern"
from zatic's blogs this country sounds pretty fucking backwards, and quite a bit less modern.
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
On May 05 2010 23:18 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 23:14 Smix wrote:
it's not even that they're backwards or less "modern" from zatic's blogs this country sounds pretty fucking backwards, and quite a bit less modern.
I meant backwards in terms of access to technology / general development in this modern world. It clearly has a very different political system which we may judge as "backwards" through our Western eyes but if the citizens are happy, one has to think it's working pretty well. There are still many countries that would NOT look like Socal on a normal day =/
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i read this not knowing what the title Law would being out but this was quite intressting for me, not a country I plan on visiting, thought i would like to visit cali though 
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Sounds like a pretty horrible place, they really are still stuck in the dark ages... has it been mentioned what country this is yet?
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United States12607 Posts
On May 05 2010 23:28 Whiplash wrote:
Sounds like a pretty horrible place, they really are still stuck in the dark ages... has it been mentioned what country this is yet?
I think it's Saudi Arabia, but can't say for sure (zatic is keeping it out of his blogs intentionally, probably for good reason).
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What country are you talking about? And why didn't you named it in the blog?
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The funny part is, I just did a presentation on this today. And that country has the highest rates of amphetamine seizures in the world for some country that is so anti drugs.
How they smuggle them through?
No prescriptions needed, you just go to a pharmacy and get the drugs you want. How do they get it through? They use the name Captagon, which is an amphetamine drug. The country also banned liquid based oral drugs such as one version of ibuprofen? Why, they would use them in recreation and drink them in mass.
I disagree with you on the point that the population is in majority in support of this kind of society. The religious males might be, but people are not emotionally that barbaric, and people have needs and natures. They are stuck in the dark ages though, and I do not have any idea what kind of power that can take them out of it, with their censored internet and ignorant public.This country has the lowest amount of schooling hours in the world, and religion is a mandatory course even at university.
Read this interview:
The Cleanest Race
IMO, there is not much difference between these two countries, one markets its propaganda in the name of Islam, the other through nationalism. The only difference is one has oil and money.
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On May 05 2010 23:41 samachking wrote:
The funny part is, I just did a presentation on this today. And that country has the highest rates of amphetamine seizures in the world for some country that is so anti drugs.
How they smuggle them through?
No prescriptions needed, you just go to a pharmacy and get the drugs you want. How do they get it through? They use the name Captagon, which is an amphetamine drug. The country also banned liquid based oral drugs such as one version of ibuprofen? Why, they would use them in recreation and drink them in mass.
I disagree with you on the point that the population is in majority in support of this kind of society. The religious males might be, but people are not emotionally that barbaric, and people have needs and natures. They are stuck in the dark ages though, and I do not have any idea what kind of power that can take them out of it, with their censored internet and ignorant public.This country has the lowest amount of schooling hours in the world, and religion is a mandatory course even at university.
In fact from what I heard from my parents, drugs are being made IN that place! Its pretty crazy how that country just made their own version of the religion based on their wants and needs. No Freedom = Sole control and brainwashing.
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On May 05 2010 23:23 Smix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 23:18 JWD wrote:On May 05 2010 23:14 Smix wrote:
it's not even that they're backwards or less "modern" from zatic's blogs this country sounds pretty fucking backwards, and quite a bit less modern. I meant backwards in terms of access to technology / general development in this modern world. It clearly has a very different political system which we may judge as "backwards" through our Western eyes but if the citizens are happy, one has to think it's working pretty well. There are still many countries that would NOT look like Socal on a normal day =/
If Germany had won WW2 there people may have been pretty fucking happy with a white aryan, jewless europen super state. That was ruled by a lineage of despots. They still would of been a brainwashed society, doing far more harm to humanity then good. Just because they have Oil, and therefore enough money to look like southern California. Does not mean they are a functional society.
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
On May 06 2010 00:19 InToTheWannaB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 23:23 Smix wrote:On May 05 2010 23:18 JWD wrote:On May 05 2010 23:14 Smix wrote:
it's not even that they're backwards or less "modern" from zatic's blogs this country sounds pretty fucking backwards, and quite a bit less modern. I meant backwards in terms of access to technology / general development in this modern world. It clearly has a very different political system which we may judge as "backwards" through our Western eyes but if the citizens are happy, one has to think it's working pretty well. There are still many countries that would NOT look like Socal on a normal day =/ If Germany had won WW2 there people may have been pretty fucking happy with a white aryan, jewless europen super state. That was ruled by a lineage of despots. They still would of been a brainwashed society, doing far more harm to humanity then good. Just because they have Oil, and therefore enough money to look like southern California. Does not mean they are a functional society.
I was merely stating that the country is not "backwards" like some destitute, underdeveloped countries that don't have the economic means yet to modernization in the technological sense. When I said "working well" I wasn't saying that I agree with how the country is run - I think some of the punishments carried out that zatic named are horrendous, but the nation seems to be functional in the sense that the people are fed and content with the system (at least according to zatic) compared to some other countries where food is scarce and people feel oppressed.
My point was that they have a completely different political system (one that most people would disagree with) but it's interesting that it still seems to 'function' and do 'well'.
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Belgium9947 Posts
Holy shit that's even way worse than what I imagined from what you told us.
On a more personal note: did your company offer you the possibility to turn this job down? What kind of protection/guidelines/briefing did they give you?
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I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin.
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On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin.
totally agree
On May 05 2010 23:41 samachking wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The funny part is, I just did a presentation on this today. And that country has the highest rates of amphetamine seizures in the world for some country that is so anti drugs.
How they smuggle them through?
No prescriptions needed, you just go to a pharmacy and get the drugs you want. How do they get it through? They use the name Captagon, which is an amphetamine drug. The country also banned liquid based oral drugs such as one version of ibuprofen? Why, they would use them in recreation and drink them in mass.
I disagree with you on the point that the population is in majority in support of this kind of society. The religious males might be, but people are not emotionally that barbaric, and people have needs and natures. They are stuck in the dark ages though, and I do not have any idea what kind of power that can take them out of it, with their censored internet and ignorant public.This country has the lowest amount of schooling hours in the world, and religion is a mandatory course even at university.
Read this interview: The Cleanest RaceIMO, there is not much difference between these two countries, one markets its propaganda in the name of Islam, the other through nationalism. The only difference is one has oil and money.
Comparing North Korea and Saudi Arabia is pretty bogus, imo. The level of suffering in the former dwarfs that of the latter, from all the accounts I've read, and NK engages in an active process of brainwashing the public while SA is just a country founded on certain religious practices (which while they may seem oppressive to Westerners, are really just another way to live, a different perspective.
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On May 06 2010 00:46 RaGe wrote:
Holy shit that's even way worse than what I imagined from what you told us.
On a more personal note: did your company offer you the possibility to turn this job down? What kind of protection/guidelines/briefing did they give you?
I would like to know this as well.
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This is the most fascinating blog series I have ever read. Absolutely amazing!
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I'm really enjoying these blogs. It certainly sounds like a crazy experience..i'm not sure i could handle going to another country like this for a job or something though. It would just be too big of a change for me from my little Canadian city..
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On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin.
Yeah, I am sure that women who are lashed because they had the misfortune of being raped would hate it if "western morals" were "imposed" on them.
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On May 06 2010 03:20 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin. Yeah, I am sure that women who are lashed because they had the misfortune of being raped would hate it if "western morals" were "imposed" on them.
Keep in mind the Sharia system in that country is total load of bullcrap that the country itself rigid. Yeah I mean not even western morals, but true Islamic law is nothing like what you see being done in that country. Most of the thing you see now in Muslim countries is a mass of shit created by people who were too mindfucked to see right from wrong.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 06 2010 03:20 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin. Yeah, I am sure that women who are lashed because they had the misfortune of being raped would hate it if "western morals" were "imposed" on them.
+1, couldn't have said it better myself.
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On May 06 2010 03:20 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin. Yeah, I am sure that women who are lashed because they had the misfortune of being raped would hate it if "western morals" were "imposed" on them.
Islam is evolving, just like the west is. Things like this are generally confined to the really jacked up areas like Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. Let them fix their problems their own way.
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Really interesting read, thanks.
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Zurich15325 Posts
On May 06 2010 00:46 RaGe wrote:
Holy shit that's even way worse than what I imagined from what you told us.
On a more personal note: did your company offer you the possibility to turn this job down? What kind of protection/guidelines/briefing did they give you?
Yeah sure I could have turned down. But it's not a bad experience as long as you know it's temporarily, and it has its perks, which I might expand on in future posts. And I love traveling so there is that.
I didn't get any preparation, no. But as long as you haven't lived with your head in the sand that's ok. While the whole experience is somewhat strange and hard to image, Western foreigners still live quite comfortably here. If they are male that is.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
wow, v interesting stuff, i was unaware it was that crazy
the power of societal construct is unreal
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Interesting blogs!
You sure as hell wouldn't get me living there... I don't care what they're paying you!
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The irony of public flogging with the modern city landscape in the background.
I wonder how we will look in the eyes of people 1000 years from now.
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Fantastic blog Zatic, do you want to PM me the place and maybe your opinion on its culture?
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Zurich15325 Posts
On May 11 2010 15:54 ShaperofDreams wrote:
Fantastic blog Zatic, do you want to PM me the place and maybe your opinion on its culture?
I can give my opinion right here if you are more specific. What do you want to know? "Its culture" is a bit too broad.
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Very interesting read, I actually just went and read your Women and Traffic posts, very informative. To be honest, maybe a lot of people know about these things, but as educated as I like to think of myself as, I knew nothing about any of this.
If an "educated" young male like myself can think of places like you describe as Hell on Earth, without any thought to what the people themselves think, what do the majority of Americans think about these places?
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United States22883 Posts
On May 06 2010 05:59 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 03:20 Mindcrime wrote:On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin. Yeah, I am sure that women who are lashed because they had the misfortune of being raped would hate it if "western morals" were "imposed" on them. Islam is evolving, just like the west is. Things like this are generally confined to the really jacked up areas like Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. Let them fix their problems their own way.
I'm with this.
I've studied the lack of social movements in SA and in basic terms, there's two main issues. There are a good number of people who love McDonalds and western movies, but simply aren't going to speak out because 1. they're Saudis and so they're paid handsomely by the government (although less so these days) and 2. the paramilitary is actually very successful at keeping dissent to a minimum. 1. represents a lack of incentive for social change, because people are already living well, and 2. is what makes the cost so high.
That doesn't mean it won't eventually happen though. The fact that drug trafficking is already so big there shows a breakdown in the dominant society, and there's still minor protests ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/14/AR2009081401598.html ) going on by Saudis. What I'm most curious about is what is happening with the Shias in the east (where the oil is) that make up 15% of the population and still face severe discrimination. When I did my research, the general feeling was discontentment without radicalism; they wanted slow and steady change. I'm not sure how the situation has developed since then.
TBH, living in Dubai would be more unsettling to me than Saudi Arabia. At least you know what you're getting yourself into there. If I may ask, what region are you living in?
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Nice blog, reading the first two now.
This isn’t Soviet Russia, you see no oppression in everyday life at all, and people are very open generally.
You wouldn't see this happen in Soviet Russia either, especially after Stalin was gone. Even before that "oppression" was done in relative secrecy, definitely not something you'd see out in the streets. And back in the first half of the 20th century common people would all cry if their leader died, it would be worse than if their own son died.
In general people were very happy in the USSR.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
Keep writing these please. 
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Zurich15325 Posts
On May 12 2010 14:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 05:59 Biochemist wrote:On May 06 2010 03:20 Mindcrime wrote:On May 06 2010 00:49 Biochemist wrote:
I think it's wrong to impose western philosophy and morals on the middle east. Looking at a devout, praying Muslim gives me more faith in humanity than a bunch of drunk naked teenagers running around in Berlin. Yeah, I am sure that women who are lashed because they had the misfortune of being raped would hate it if "western morals" were "imposed" on them. Islam is evolving, just like the west is. Things like this are generally confined to the really jacked up areas like Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. Let them fix their problems their own way. I've studied the lack of social movements in SA and in basic terms, there's two main issues. There are a good number of people who love McDonalds and western movies, but simply aren't going to speak out because 1. they're paid handsomely by the government (although less so these days) and 2. the paramilitary is actually very successful at keeping dissent to a minimum. 1. represents a lack of incentive for social change, because people are already living well, and 2. is what makes the cost so high.
This is very true and I agree very much.
What this means though is that they are not going to change until they have to. Ergo, until the oil runs out. And the little change you are seeing is confined to areas of society I'd deem rather unimportant. They will probably introduce movie theaters sooner than universal suffrage.
And you have to realize that it is only in the interest of government to further social modernization - they are trying to liberalize the country, it's the general public and the religious leaders who are against it.
This is true for many Gulf countries actually where the governments try to liberalize society to advance their countries economically but in many cases are met with broad resistance by the public.
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EPT
