• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:44
CEST 11:44
KST 18:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 28ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon275.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes33Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch2[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon HomeStory Cup In Early July 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch First season(s) of tastosis gomtv gsl vods? BW General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered?
Tourneys
The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Men's Fashion Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 19825 users

XlorD on Starcraft II

Blogs > teekesselchen
Post a Reply
teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 18:06:33
May 03 2010 17:17 GMT
#1
An exerpt from this interview on Team ALTERNATEs webpage with their WC3 player Daniel "XlorD" Spenst (translated from german into english)
For those who are not familiar with XlorD: He's one of germanys finest WC3 players (possibly the best for one or two years now) who never could really compete on one level with asian players, but still is one of the top WC3 players. The skill difference of Asian and other players isn't nearly as huge as in Broodwar, but still immense.
Original Link: http://www.team-alternate.de/?s=news&typ=article&id=6033

Q: Do you feel happy when you can stop playing Warcraft 3 after the current EPS Season and focus on Starcraft 2 then?
Daniel: "SC2 slowly becomes boring to be honest, it seems very different after 400 games compared to the early beta phase. Actually, I don't know anything yet."

Q: Diverse people say that a co-existence of WC3 and SC2 is not possible.How much importance to you attribute to SC2 in national [german] and international eSports? What do you think is the biggest advantage of SC2 over WC3?
Daniel: SC2 will displace WC3 in any case, because the biggest advantage of SC2 is that it is new and will bring some fresh air. If SC2 and WC4 would be relased, I'ld choose Warcraft 4, because Warcraft has more aspects than SC2. Warcraft has something special that no other title has in form of heroes. Also, from my point of view Warcraft needs more skill than Starcraft [2] because one needs much more micro. SC2 needs more macro, but that's not really difficult. The seperation between professional and hobby gamer will be small, because SC2 is very easy to play in my view.


Apart from the heroes, he specificially mentions Micro what really doesn't surprise me. At least it surprises me less, than the fact that not even 10% of those who voted in the "What is the biggest issue of Starcraft 2?" thread in this forums said that it is the lack of micro.
This might also be related with the fact that SC2 becomes boring to him now because it limits game variation alot.

Some additional informations on Warcraft 3 (as it's his gaming background):
Much less macro but Micro is extremely important in any phase of the game. Army supply is around 40-70 in most fights with comparable supply amounts per unit like in Starcraft. This, and the fact that heroes get experience for kills and get much stronger, makes every single unit valuable so the games are really micro heavy. Also most units have important abilities and heros have 3-4 skills plus an inventory of up to 6 items, many of those usuable.

****
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
May 03 2010 17:33 GMT
#2
None of this new. Most players on TL would agree that micro is almost non-existance. Imo heroes are lame. I've played a bunch of sc and wc3, and I just really don't like heros. All I can say is that this is beta. Hopefully much will change.
Ghardo
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Germany1685 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 17:42:36
May 03 2010 17:38 GMT
#3
TLO said there was no lack of micro.

case closed.

+ Show Spoiler +
tbh, i have argued since the beginning of beta that there was way less micro in sc2 because of e.g. perverse unit clumping and ai that just moves too smoothly around anything edge-like (incl. other units), but well, that's my personal opinion and i also respect the judgement of TLO who was A- before he switched to sc2 and now rules the scene. his words were:
(he was in an interview on stream shortly before that)
You: one question he didn't ask you unfortunately: do you think micro in sc2 is inferior compared to sc:bw?
LiquidTLO: absolutely not
i believe micro will be on a similar level sooner or later
or even more complex
after all, in sc:bw it wasn't much more than macro whoring in the end
^^


edit: just to make this clear: this is the only thing that makes me agnostic rather than atheist

teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
May 03 2010 17:47 GMT
#4
On May 04 2010 02:33 sLiniss wrote:
None of this new. Most players on TL would agree that micro is almost non-existance. Imo heroes are lame. I've played a bunch of sc and wc3, and I just really don't like heros. All I can say is that this is beta. Hopefully much will change.

I don't think that Heroes would fit in Starcraft either. I just found his interview and think it's nice to see another pro level player agreeing that there is too few game deciding micro in SC2.
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
May 03 2010 17:55 GMT
#5
Micro is harder than macro? This guy never played SCBW obviously. Also he sucks too much at SC2 to be taken seriously.
teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
May 03 2010 18:02 GMT
#6
On May 04 2010 02:55 Slunk wrote:
Micro is harder than macro? This guy never played SCBW obviously. Also he sucks too much at SC2 to be taken seriously.

He only refers to Starcraft 2 where Macro obviosly isn't nearly as difficult as in Broodwar. Also, he had some good results although he didn't play SC2 much since he focusses much on Warcraft 3 than most good SC2 players right now.
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
May 03 2010 18:04 GMT
#7
Meh micro, macro. I find I can't do both at the same time to 100% efficiency, my goal is to improve at one or the other first and then try to incorporate the other one at a higher level. Of course it won't be 100% of one and 0% of the other maybe 60:40 or 70:30 split at the start.
Brood War forever!
RageOverdose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States690 Posts
May 03 2010 18:45 GMT
#8
Micro/macro...

There really is micro in SC2, it's just not as grand or specific as it used to be. Although, I guess that's what made micro pretty awesome before. But for a guy who is probably used to, and loves, the micro-fest that is WC3, I can see why he would get a bit bored with the macro-fest of SC2.

Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
May 03 2010 19:15 GMT
#9
Having seen SEXLORD running around wasted in a hotel in europe, I can't take his opinion on balance seriously at all.
Moderator
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
May 03 2010 19:27 GMT
#10
Haha, is he even old enough to drink?

Oh right, Europe. =P
Oh, my eSports
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
May 03 2010 19:44 GMT
#11
On May 04 2010 02:55 Slunk wrote:
Micro is harder than macro? This guy never played SCBW obviously. Also he sucks too much at SC2 to be taken seriously.

Umm I'd say that micro was always way harder than macro in bw >.<
Anyone can build marines out of 8 raxes if he doesn't need to do anything but a-move troops.
Very few can mimmic the large scale army control of a pro even if he doesn't need to macro at all while doing it.
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
May 03 2010 20:21 GMT
#12
I love how everyone who says SC2 doesn't take much skill is fucking horrible at SC2. Instantly recognizable as a load of bullshit. Once someone comes along with a 90% win rate against all the top SC2 players, maybe they can say how SC2 doesn't take much skill.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-03 20:30:56
May 03 2010 20:25 GMT
#13
On May 04 2010 05:21 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I love how everyone who says SC2 doesn't take much skill is fucking horrible at SC2. Instantly recognizable as a load of bullshit. Once someone comes along with a 90% win rate against all the top SC2 players, maybe they can say how SC2 doesn't take much skill.


I agree with your general theme here, but that's not really a fair thing to say if build orders end up mattering more than gameplay(not saying that they do or will... just that if luck is a big factor then even a way better player prolly won't win 90%)

Which makes me ask, since u play near the top level for sc2 right now, do you think luck is a bigger factor than in sc1?
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
May 03 2010 20:32 GMT
#14
On May 04 2010 05:25 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2010 05:21 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I love how everyone who says SC2 doesn't take much skill is fucking horrible at SC2. Instantly recognizable as a load of bullshit. Once someone comes along with a 90% win rate against all the top SC2 players, maybe they can say how SC2 doesn't take much skill.


I agree with your general theme here, but that's not really a fair thing to say if build orders end up mattering more than gameplay(not saying that they do or will... just that if luck is a big factor then even a way better player prolly won't win 90%)

Yeah but theorizing on how it will end up being isn't saying anything. The fact is that right now, you can take any 10+ minute replay of any top player and list dozens of things that they did less than perfectly. And while I'd have to go onto hypothetical ground to keep this next point, I think we can all agree that knowledge of strategy, tactics and tricks has a ton more development to do, so there are probably many more imperfections that we can't even point out yet. But I don't need to rely on that hypothetical development of the game.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
May 03 2010 20:39 GMT
#15
On May 04 2010 05:25 travis wrote:
Which makes me ask, since u play near the top level for sc2 right now, do you think luck is a bigger factor than in sc1?

I think it is a bigger factor but only because people are worse at sc2. It took very precise builds in SC:BW to hammer out the luck factor and even then a huge lack factor remained, especially in some matchups and some maps. People in sc2 don't have the luxury of copying the collective knowledge of hundreds of full-time progamers for nearly a decade.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
WiljushkA
Profile Joined March 2006
Serbia1416 Posts
May 03 2010 22:28 GMT
#16
oh shit its sexlord
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-04 01:03:05
May 04 2010 00:50 GMT
#17
On May 04 2010 05:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2010 05:25 travis wrote:
Which makes me ask, since u play near the top level for sc2 right now, do you think luck is a bigger factor than in sc1?

I think it is a bigger factor but only because people are worse at sc2. It took very precise builds in SC:BW to hammer out the luck factor and even then a huge lack factor remained, especially in some matchups and some maps. People in sc2 don't have the luxury of copying the collective knowledge of hundreds of full-time progamers for nearly a decade.

Ok, let's say this luck factor gets removed because people learn to read the opponent's tactics better. Won't the games be HORRIBLY boring then? Honestly, battles right now are often very predictable and boring, not only because they end within 1*10^-8 seconds each but also because you really cannot see great micro by each player.
How is good micro visualized right now? By dropping good forcefields or using graviton beam on the right units? By positioning marauders in a big arch instead of a giant ball? Is that exiting? No its not.


On May 04 2010 05:21 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I love how everyone who says SC2 doesn't take much skill is fucking horrible at SC2. Instantly recognizable as a load of bullshit. Once someone comes along with a 90% win rate against all the top SC2 players, maybe they can say how SC2 doesn't take much skill.


Thats an assumption that cannot be proofed, because the sentence " SC2 needs few skill" implies that other people do not need alot of skill either to compete.
Also, the term skill often gets mixed up with Micro and a guy who invests double the amount apm than his enemy in good micro in SC2 plus has a good macro or tactic still can get defeated easily because this micro doesn't give him an advantage as huge as in many other RTS games, such as Warcraft 3 and propably broodwar and the tactic is pretty much the only thing counting.

On May 04 2010 05:32 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2010 05:25 travis wrote:
On May 04 2010 05:21 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I love how everyone who says SC2 doesn't take much skill is fucking horrible at SC2. Instantly recognizable as a load of bullshit. Once someone comes along with a 90% win rate against all the top SC2 players, maybe they can say how SC2 doesn't take much skill.


I agree with your general theme here, but that's not really a fair thing to say if build orders end up mattering more than gameplay(not saying that they do or will... just that if luck is a big factor then even a way better player prolly won't win 90%)

Yeah but theorizing on how it will end up being isn't saying anything. The fact is that right now, you can take any 10+ minute replay of any top player and list dozens of things that they did less than perfectly. And while I'd have to go onto hypothetical ground to keep this next point, I think we can all agree that knowledge of strategy, tactics and tricks has a ton more development to do, so there are probably many more imperfections that we can't even point out yet. But I don't need to rely on that hypothetical development of the game.

Ok, thats right. However, it can be frustrating because many of these mistakes are very small or just no real mistakes like choosing a specific build order when the player did not have the option to know whether it's a good choice.
Also there is no real dramatic impact by micro like in WC3 or BW where a few well used skill, perfectly positioned units or a good focus fire could win you a game, right now it feels so limited to a bit of positioning that however will not win you the game when you have a disadvantage overall.
Let's say progamers do perfect their gamestyle and do remove all those mistakes. Will it be an interesting game then? I doubt it, it will be boring as hell as soon as you watched five or six of them.
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech66
Codebar 38
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 668
Shuttle 596
Leta 193
Larva 188
Dewaltoss 145
ggaemo 141
actioN 131
Soma 121
BeSt 101
Light 97
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 83
Aegong 77
JYJ 60
soO 55
Mind 52
Sharp 49
Free 48
910 35
ZergMaN 29
Hm[arnc] 28
ZerO 20
Noble 17
Bale 15
Rush 15
sSak 15
NaDa 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Movie 8
Sacsri 7
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
XaKoH 599
XcaliburYe179
League of Legends
Doublelift2790
JimRising 558
Counter-Strike
summit1g6619
olofmeister1346
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King83
Westballz15
Other Games
singsing1240
Sick192
Livibee64
ZerO(Twitch)6
BEARDiaguz1
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream239
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 19
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2112
League of Legends
• Jankos2948
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
17m
HomeStory Cup
1h 17m
Replay Cast
14h 17m
HomeStory Cup
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S3: W1
SCTL 2026 Spring
HSC XXIX
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.