• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:56
CEST 19:56
KST 02:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo20Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)12[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Is the larve respawn broken? Yamato Cup Series What kind of tool would you be interested in?
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ICO Development for AI, G…
Joshlittle
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6618 users

Musashi's "Gorinsho" - Draft Reading Interest?

Blogs > Truenappa
Post a Reply
Niten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States598 Posts
April 20 2010 17:47 GMT
#1
So... for my Master's thesis at my university I've made my project retranslating Miyamoto Musashi's "Book of Five Rings" as it's known in English (though actually the text was unnamed). Basically, I'm wondering if TL netizens might be interested in helping me out by reading draft versions of the different scrolls for style, clarity, etc. If there's interest as expressed in the poll, then I'd like to post things here. I've put in a primer to my project after the poll.

Poll: Would you be interested in reading this awesomeness??

GoGoGo!! Gimme sumthin to read. (11)
 
85%

No, not really. (2)
 
15%

Other - Explained in post. (0)
 
0%

13 total votes

Your vote: Would you be interested in reading this awesomeness??

(Vote): GoGoGo!! Gimme sumthin to read.
(Vote): No, not really.
(Vote): Other - Explained in post.




My MA project is on Miyamoto Musashi's "Book of Five Rings," the Gorinsho, a medieval document where Musashi critiques Edo-period Japanese martial ways and explains key points of his own school, Niten-ichi-ryu.

The HMK (Harima Musashi Kenkyukai) is a research group in Japan doing amazing work on the Gorinsho. Their great addition to Gorinsho scholarship lies in their comparative analysis of existing manuscripts (MS) and the conclusions they've come to as a result. The most critical of which is their separation of MS lines. They are the only ones to even consider comparing the existing manuscripts.

I'm not an expert at all this yet, but the largest and most important distinction is between the Chikuzen-line and Higo-line manuscripts. The Chikuzen-line follows the transmission history of MSs based on the historical documentation of the Gorinsho's transmission from the colophon at the end of each scroll, which is why this line follows the people whom received and transmitted the text. Early on in its transmission, this follows the heads of the 二天一流 (Niten-ichi-ryu) sword school.

The Higo-line, according to the HMK's comparative textual analysis, is the product of a leaked early Chikuzen-line MS. It was subsequently copied, and recopied, and these MS's tracing is based on the HMK's comparative analysis of those MS which all share similar characteristics (lack of transmission documentation, clear copy errors, peculiar omissions). The Hosokawa MS appears late on in this line.

This Hosokawa MS, treated and annotated, appears in the Japanese collection of martial writings, the Bushido Zensho (writings on Bushido, 1942-43). It also appears in another collection of Japanese writings, the Nihon Shisou Taikei (related works of Japanese thought, 1972). It is, as I understand it, the source text for all the modern Japanese translations. Out of the 15 English Gorinsho translations and interpretations, 4 (possibly 6) of them, I believe, were translated from the classical Japanese, and all of these used the Hosokawa MS as their source text (Harris, Wilson, Ochiai, Tokitsu, Cleary?, Bradford Brown?, Ashikaga?).

The rest of these English "translations" purport themselves to be modern-day interpretations, translations, or something in between. I've found that later published books draw from earlier translations/interpretations in making their own new, but different, interpretation. I believe there is a scandal here, a gross distortion of meaning, that I can trace starting from the HMK's genealogy and going through the English translations and interpretations. For example, I have evidence showing that Kaufman borrowed from Harris and Cleary (and likely the other two available to him) in creating his "martial artist's definitive interpretation," and that Krause's "Book of Five Rings for Executives" used Kaufman and Cleary. I also have evidence of Moore and Gough borrowing (at least) from Harris. I won't go into the rest or in more detail here, but the result is essentially a 365 year old game of "telephone."

The point is I can trace the genealogy of these English translations back to their classical routes, which is then found out to be a leaked and copied MS full of mistakes. I can expose this scandal of translation while simultaneously offering my own translation of the HMK's MS (the rough version of which I'm posting here), which was compiled through comparative analysis of Higo and Chikuzen MSs (though with obvious weight given to the Chikuzen-line). My project is thus to expose the scandal while offering my own translation of the HMK's manuscript.


Korra: "Ok, I know that I'm not good at emotions, but that's what Tenzin's gonna teach me, right? He's gonna teach me to be happy and gentle and spiritual, and the rest of that bullsh**t."
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
April 20 2010 18:34 GMT
#2
First of all, I agree with your signature. If you have any thoughts on the Cleary translation (the one I own) I'd be interested in hearing them.

I'd be happy to help out by reading a scroll or two every now and then. Have at it!
May the BeSt man win.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
April 20 2010 18:50 GMT
#3
_definitely_

I love martial arts, and like all, I love dedicated, humble individuals.

Please do this.
Each day gets better : )
tarpman
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada723 Posts
April 20 2010 21:28 GMT
#4
very, very interesting project. I've actually been working my way through what appears to be Bradford Brown's translation ("The Book of Five Rings: The Real Art of Japanese Management"). I'd love to see yours and have a look at some of the differences.

This also explains your signature, which I fully agree with
Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time.
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
April 21 2010 04:28 GMT
#5
Holy shit, I'm reading the manga Vagabond. It's about him.

Not quite sure whether it's historically correct, but it's a fine manga.

And sure, I'll help read it (:
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
April 21 2010 14:10 GMT
#6
of course i would love to read it
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Niten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States598 Posts
April 21 2010 20:30 GMT
#7
I'm so glad there's a positive reaction to this!!

So here's the deal: I am halfway done with my Fire scroll's alpha translation (at page 90 / 130). Once I've gotten through them all roughly (Wind is short and Void is like a page), I'll rework through them alongside the classical to get things much tighter then they are now. I was rereading my Earth and I was noticing things like crazy that I'll change. This is how the translation process, for me anyway, works -- I rough it out, and then go back over again and again until it gleams with polish so bright it's blinding.

Anyway, once I get "beta" versions of the scrolls ready, I'll be ready for feedback and post them as new blog posts.

Thank you SOOOO much everyone and I'm looking forward to your feedback!
よろしくお願いします - yorishiku onegaishimasu
Korra: "Ok, I know that I'm not good at emotions, but that's what Tenzin's gonna teach me, right? He's gonna teach me to be happy and gentle and spiritual, and the rest of that bullsh**t."
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
April 21 2010 23:12 GMT
#8
Yea it's going to be great man. Musashi is one of those guys no one is ever apathetic about upon hearing, he's just way too cool in every way.


Strong
Sensitive
Humble
Violent
Poet

= Baller
Each day gets better : )
tarpman
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada723 Posts
April 26 2010 15:22 GMT
#9
Truenappa, your enthusiasm really shows through in that last post. Great to see, and it put a smile on my face. Thanks.
Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#57
RotterdaM823
TaKeTV 395
TKL 360
IndyStarCraft 157
SteadfastSC150
BRAT_OK 105
HolyHit3
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 823
ByuN 448
TKL 360
Clem_sc2 342
mouzHeroMarine 325
IndyStarCraft 157
SteadfastSC 150
BRAT_OK 105
RushiSC 24
trigger 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4637
EffOrt 672
Shuttle 601
Mini 490
Mong 150
Leta 109
Snow 107
hero 64
Movie 58
Sea.KH 49
[ Show more ]
Sharp 47
scan(afreeca) 32
Rock 19
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
qojqva2542
420jenkins306
Counter-Strike
fl0m2184
Sick207
adren_tv62
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK15
Other Games
singsing2006
Grubby1368
FrodaN768
ceh9675
Beastyqt640
Lowko630
PiGStarcraft379
C9.Mang0173
KnowMe85
Trikslyr57
Dewaltoss26
OptimusSC21
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8151
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile17
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 16
• FirePhoenix4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2386
Other Games
• imaqtpie500
• WagamamaTV240
• Shiphtur119
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 4m
The PondCast
1d 16h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
Online Event
5 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.