• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:02
CEST 15:02
KST 22:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview7TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview What kind of tool would you be interested in? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BW animated web series: seeking contributors 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
The Perfect Game Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4890 users

Musashi's "Gorinsho" - Draft Reading Interest?

Blogs > Truenappa
Post a Reply
Niten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States598 Posts
April 20 2010 17:47 GMT
#1
So... for my Master's thesis at my university I've made my project retranslating Miyamoto Musashi's "Book of Five Rings" as it's known in English (though actually the text was unnamed). Basically, I'm wondering if TL netizens might be interested in helping me out by reading draft versions of the different scrolls for style, clarity, etc. If there's interest as expressed in the poll, then I'd like to post things here. I've put in a primer to my project after the poll.

Poll: Would you be interested in reading this awesomeness??

GoGoGo!! Gimme sumthin to read. (11)
 
85%

No, not really. (2)
 
15%

Other - Explained in post. (0)
 
0%

13 total votes

Your vote: Would you be interested in reading this awesomeness??

(Vote): GoGoGo!! Gimme sumthin to read.
(Vote): No, not really.
(Vote): Other - Explained in post.




My MA project is on Miyamoto Musashi's "Book of Five Rings," the Gorinsho, a medieval document where Musashi critiques Edo-period Japanese martial ways and explains key points of his own school, Niten-ichi-ryu.

The HMK (Harima Musashi Kenkyukai) is a research group in Japan doing amazing work on the Gorinsho. Their great addition to Gorinsho scholarship lies in their comparative analysis of existing manuscripts (MS) and the conclusions they've come to as a result. The most critical of which is their separation of MS lines. They are the only ones to even consider comparing the existing manuscripts.

I'm not an expert at all this yet, but the largest and most important distinction is between the Chikuzen-line and Higo-line manuscripts. The Chikuzen-line follows the transmission history of MSs based on the historical documentation of the Gorinsho's transmission from the colophon at the end of each scroll, which is why this line follows the people whom received and transmitted the text. Early on in its transmission, this follows the heads of the 二天一流 (Niten-ichi-ryu) sword school.

The Higo-line, according to the HMK's comparative textual analysis, is the product of a leaked early Chikuzen-line MS. It was subsequently copied, and recopied, and these MS's tracing is based on the HMK's comparative analysis of those MS which all share similar characteristics (lack of transmission documentation, clear copy errors, peculiar omissions). The Hosokawa MS appears late on in this line.

This Hosokawa MS, treated and annotated, appears in the Japanese collection of martial writings, the Bushido Zensho (writings on Bushido, 1942-43). It also appears in another collection of Japanese writings, the Nihon Shisou Taikei (related works of Japanese thought, 1972). It is, as I understand it, the source text for all the modern Japanese translations. Out of the 15 English Gorinsho translations and interpretations, 4 (possibly 6) of them, I believe, were translated from the classical Japanese, and all of these used the Hosokawa MS as their source text (Harris, Wilson, Ochiai, Tokitsu, Cleary?, Bradford Brown?, Ashikaga?).

The rest of these English "translations" purport themselves to be modern-day interpretations, translations, or something in between. I've found that later published books draw from earlier translations/interpretations in making their own new, but different, interpretation. I believe there is a scandal here, a gross distortion of meaning, that I can trace starting from the HMK's genealogy and going through the English translations and interpretations. For example, I have evidence showing that Kaufman borrowed from Harris and Cleary (and likely the other two available to him) in creating his "martial artist's definitive interpretation," and that Krause's "Book of Five Rings for Executives" used Kaufman and Cleary. I also have evidence of Moore and Gough borrowing (at least) from Harris. I won't go into the rest or in more detail here, but the result is essentially a 365 year old game of "telephone."

The point is I can trace the genealogy of these English translations back to their classical routes, which is then found out to be a leaked and copied MS full of mistakes. I can expose this scandal of translation while simultaneously offering my own translation of the HMK's MS (the rough version of which I'm posting here), which was compiled through comparative analysis of Higo and Chikuzen MSs (though with obvious weight given to the Chikuzen-line). My project is thus to expose the scandal while offering my own translation of the HMK's manuscript.


Korra: "Ok, I know that I'm not good at emotions, but that's what Tenzin's gonna teach me, right? He's gonna teach me to be happy and gentle and spiritual, and the rest of that bullsh**t."
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
April 20 2010 18:34 GMT
#2
First of all, I agree with your signature. If you have any thoughts on the Cleary translation (the one I own) I'd be interested in hearing them.

I'd be happy to help out by reading a scroll or two every now and then. Have at it!
May the BeSt man win.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
April 20 2010 18:50 GMT
#3
_definitely_

I love martial arts, and like all, I love dedicated, humble individuals.

Please do this.
Each day gets better : )
tarpman
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada723 Posts
April 20 2010 21:28 GMT
#4
very, very interesting project. I've actually been working my way through what appears to be Bradford Brown's translation ("The Book of Five Rings: The Real Art of Japanese Management"). I'd love to see yours and have a look at some of the differences.

This also explains your signature, which I fully agree with
Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time.
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
April 21 2010 04:28 GMT
#5
Holy shit, I'm reading the manga Vagabond. It's about him.

Not quite sure whether it's historically correct, but it's a fine manga.

And sure, I'll help read it (:
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
April 21 2010 14:10 GMT
#6
of course i would love to read it
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Niten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States598 Posts
April 21 2010 20:30 GMT
#7
I'm so glad there's a positive reaction to this!!

So here's the deal: I am halfway done with my Fire scroll's alpha translation (at page 90 / 130). Once I've gotten through them all roughly (Wind is short and Void is like a page), I'll rework through them alongside the classical to get things much tighter then they are now. I was rereading my Earth and I was noticing things like crazy that I'll change. This is how the translation process, for me anyway, works -- I rough it out, and then go back over again and again until it gleams with polish so bright it's blinding.

Anyway, once I get "beta" versions of the scrolls ready, I'll be ready for feedback and post them as new blog posts.

Thank you SOOOO much everyone and I'm looking forward to your feedback!
よろしくお願いします - yorishiku onegaishimasu
Korra: "Ok, I know that I'm not good at emotions, but that's what Tenzin's gonna teach me, right? He's gonna teach me to be happy and gentle and spiritual, and the rest of that bullsh**t."
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
April 21 2010 23:12 GMT
#8
Yea it's going to be great man. Musashi is one of those guys no one is ever apathetic about upon hearing, he's just way too cool in every way.


Strong
Sensitive
Humble
Violent
Poet

= Baller
Each day gets better : )
tarpman
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada723 Posts
April 26 2010 15:22 GMT
#9
Truenappa, your enthusiasm really shows through in that last post. Great to see, and it put a smile on my face. Thanks.
Saving the world, one kilobyte at a time.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#90
IntoTheiNu 1577
WardiTV901
Rex139
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 139
Codebar 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1554
Jaedong 1446
Shuttle 1411
EffOrt 1129
Killer 827
Horang2 617
Snow 530
Rush 468
actioN 390
Soulkey 312
[ Show more ]
Light 284
ggaemo 260
firebathero 233
Pusan 82
Leta 78
Free 76
JYJ 70
JulyZerg 49
Backho 49
Sea.KH 47
Hm[arnc] 36
scan(afreeca) 35
Sharp 32
HiyA 29
sorry 26
Shine 25
zelot 23
Barracks 23
NotJumperer 23
910 21
GoRush 21
Noble 16
SilentControl 13
Movie 10
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
qojqva1911
XcaliburYe184
Fuzer 22
Counter-Strike
fl0m3847
olofmeister1837
Dendi511
zeus332
markeloff87
Other Games
B2W.Neo1090
Lowko700
hiko513
crisheroes307
Pyrionflax237
Mew2King63
SHIN 23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick565
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2648
• TFBlade601
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 58m
Replay Cast
10h 58m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 58m
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 21h
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.