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Alright well... I'm really needing to start putting effort to figure out my plan for grad school. I'm taking next year off to (hopefully) find a decent paying job for some good experience + being able to save a bit of money for grad school. In June I'm going to take the LSAT (been studying for 2 weeks now), and probably in July or August I'll take the GRE. Why am I taking both? Well, because I'm not 100% sure what I want to do; and that is partially the purpose of this blog.
I'm debating several options:
1) Law school - I liked my undergrad law classes, I like the idea of law school, I like arguing and reading, etc... although if I do law school my focus would be on international law so I can work internationally (I have no interest in being a domestic lawyer or anything).
2) PhD in Political Science - I love political science, I love doing research, and I love writing... a PhD in Poli Sci feels like it would fit just right in terms of what I would truly enjoy doing.
3) Joint JD/Masters (probably in International Relations) - I guess the best of both worlds?
I've also really been considering going abroad for my grad school (I.E... McGill in Canada, Sorbonne in Paris, or a British school such as LSE).
It has been really difficult though to find a lot of info on these international schools; for American universities there is the USNews rankings or whatever that gives good approximations of ranks (for example Georgetown is a top school for international law, UCSD is a top school for PhD's in IR, etc), but this information is not readily available for international schools.
I was wondering, does anybody here at TL know where a good place to study international law would be (outside the US)? I know the international schools I listed above are pretty well regarded in general, but I'm not sure of how they would compare with American schools. For example, would studying International Law at LSE be better, worse, equal (in terms of reputation) to Georgetown? Why am I asking TL? Because maybe someone here knows... Why not ask the career services center at my school? Because I hate those retards.
+ Show Spoiler [Mini Rant on UCSD Career Services Center] +
I really hate them, seriously you'd think a person whose JOB it is to offer career/graduate school advising would be more helpful, but no. Seriously every time I talk to these clowns, all they do is tell me to go look at some websites. Seriously? They're getting paid 80k per year or however much they get to sit in a chair and tell people to go look at websites. That's not fucking helpful to me at all.
One time I went in there, and they had some grad student intern, and I was asking her questions on how to go about getting an internship at a think tank and SHE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT A THINK TANK WAS, seriously what the fuck? That place is so goddamn unhelpful it pisses me off.
/End rant.
Some stuff I'm considering:
- Berkeley Law school
- Berkeley PhD in Poli Sci
- MIT PhD in Poli Sci
- LSE joint law/ma
- SAIS / Georgetown joint law/ma
- Tufts / Berkeley joint law/ma
- Harvard Law or PhD (ya, maybe 2% chance I get in but fuck it I'm goin for it!)
- Georgetown law
- NYU law
- McGill PhD in Poli Sci
What I'm trying to get out of this all?
Well, I don't know 100% what I want to DO, but I'm pretty sure I want to work with some kinda organization like the UN, ICJ, or some kind of international tribunal; I want to work in international law in some capacity that deals with democracy/human rights issues, or possibly even corporate (maybe I'll be on the team of lawyers that will deal with the eventual titanic Blizzard vs KESPA lawsuit!?)... or I'd love to work at a think tank doing research, writing, and advocacy.
So at the end of the day, I want to go to a place where the degree(s) I get and the name of the place I go will best enable me to achieve those goals... however, I don't know what place or program I should choose or aim for. I mean, I'm still about 7-8 months from applying, but I want to get everything sorted out by the Summer so I can prepare my resume, rec letters, essays, etc.
I don't wanna do what I did for undergrad (I.E wait till the last minute, botch everything, and generally fuck up), I want to be as prepared as possible since this is really it... my career will partially be guided by this next step I make, so I want to make sure I have everything under control and do things the right way.
So point being, does anyone at TL have any advice, been in my situation/going through it right now/whatever ? I'd love to hear some thoughts and input from people since that's 50% of the reason of this blog (the other 50% is for me to just write shit and sort out my own thoughts).
So ya that's about it ~~!
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fwiw I had a high school friend come visit me recently here in SD looking at the political science PhD program at UCSD. She was trying to decide between it and Harvard. So I don't know if you want to stay at the same school, but you could probably ask some of the IR professors for advice on what programs they like and they might be able to help you out better than the career services folks.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Canada doesn't have official rankings the way the US does. You can look at maclean's (magazine) for unofficial undergrad rankings but its not as cut in stone the way it seems to be for the US. Mcgill is a really good school - that's all i can really add  . glgl.
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United States889 Posts
Considering the caliber of schools you're considering, you seem like you're in good shape. You seem to be motivated and to have a pretty good plan. The big question seems like the what, and on that, assuming that you're equally interested in all of them, the wisest choice is the place where you can differentiate yourself the most in terms of future career & the plans that those entail. Don't know the specifics of your situation but that advice should probably apply.
Also if you're going to Berkeley I might be there in 2 years studying linguistics and I'd love to have someone to play SC (or more likely SC2) with.
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International relations seems fun and exciting, can't tell you much else I'm a noob.
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My advice is the take some time to decide what you want to do. Grad school is highly focused and the people that succeed there are the ones that have clearly defined interests and goals. If there is something else you can do that will help your cv like a one year abroad program I'd look into that. Get some perspective and figure out what you really want to do.
Once you figure out what you want to do the key is finding out who you want to work with. The name/rep of the school is important, but who you study under really matters within whatever academic world you land in. Find professors that do research you are in to and have a lot of publications. Once you're in the world of phds publications are what people really care about. When you've narrowed down what you want to do and who you want to work with the road forward becomes very clear.
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Canada5565 Posts
This is the best law school in Canada, hands down: http://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/
On the website they show the marks and qualifications of the students accepted the previous year. That's where I'm aiming to go to law school, but UofT wouldn't be bad either.
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United States22883 Posts
Why do you want to study abroad?
It's likely I'll get an IR/PS MS in another country but it's because I'm interested in that specific country, not for the quality of education. In fact, I'll probably return to the US and get another just to get the quality degree. Granted, LSE is better than the best school in Turkey (at least in those two areas, I don't know how it fares for law) but I can't imagine going there unless there I had a specific interest or there was a specific professor I was going for.
You know I'm not an expert on this any more than you, but the very best schools in the world are in the US, with exception to Oxford and Cambridge. LSE may be on the fringe of that list for PS, but I'm not sure why you'd choose it over the other places you listed, especially options like SAIS/GT and Berkeley. Columbia should be on that list too, for both of those options. The line may be blurry in terms of quality of education because that's a totally subjective experience, but in terms of name recognition it is not.
Strictly speaking in terms of getting a job (not counting connections, which may be more important), having a MS or JD from Johns Hopkins or Georgetown is about as good as you can get.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 26 2010 04:50 Kennigit wrote:Canada doesn't have official rankings the way the US does. You can look at maclean's (magazine) for unofficial undergrad rankings but its not as cut in stone the way it seems to be for the US. Mcgill is a really good school - that's all i can really add . glgl.
The USNews rankings are bullshit and easily manipulated, though.
I almost went to McGill, back when I was semi-interested in business.
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On March 26 2010 05:10 mucker wrote:
My advice is the take some time to decide what you want to do. Grad school is highly focused and the people that succeed there are the ones that have clearly defined interests and goals. If there is something else you can do that will help your cv like a one year abroad program I'd look into that. Get some perspective and figure out what you really want to do.
Once you figure out what you want to do the key is finding out who you want to work with. The name/rep of the school is important, but who you study under really matters within whatever academic world you land in. Find professors that do research you are in to and have a lot of publications. Once you're in the world of phds publications are what people really care about. When you've narrowed down what you want to do and who you want to work with the road forward becomes very clear.
This very good advice, especially for a PhD. I can't tell you how many people go into it thinking "I think I like X" and the realize what a fucking pain it is to finish a dissertation and write on the same paper for years on end in painstaking detail. It gets boring really fast, and you also start to feel like you could be doing better things than responding to some irrelevant little comment someone in your committee happens to have. I would almost say you should try to write a few poli-sci articles (or at least proposals of sorts) right now, see how you like the whole research/creative process, then go from there.
If you are unsure, go with law-school: exams are far easier to study for and pass and there are clear deadlines.
The "third option" SAIS / Georgetown type joint law/ma I know well. They are hugely fun as you go through them, especially SAIS (semester in Bologna FTW!), but once you are done your options are not as great as you might think. A large share of SAIS students stay in DC with some multilateral/government organization (World Bank, IMF, IFC, Fed, etc. etc.). This is great id it's your cup of tea - it's international, lots of girls and smart people, tonnes of stuff to do. However, it's a flighty life, there are no clear corporate ladders and it's easy to wake up in your mid-late-30s with an entry level-ish job and no private industry skills to speak of. So tread carefully if you take this path - it can be great but can also lead you astray far easier than a more structured law career.
I will not discuss individual schools, you have a heck of a strong list there and any one would be a great option.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 26 2010 05:37 citi.zen wrote:
The "third option" SAIS / Georgetown type joint law/ma I know well. They are hugely fun as you go through them, especially SAIS (semester in Bologna FTW!), but once you are done your options are not as great as you might think. A large share of SAIS students stay in DC with some multilateral/government organization (World Bank, IMF, IFC, Fed, etc. etc.). This is great id it's your cup of tea - it's international, lots of girls and smart people, tonnes of stuff to do. However, it's a flighty life, there are no clear corporate ladders and it's easy to wake up in your mid-late-30s with an entry level-ish job and no private industry skills to speak of. So tread carefully if you take this path - it can be great but can also lead you astray far easier than a more structured law career.
Ah, good to know. I just know about them in terms of individual JD or MS from either school.
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I don't go there but I hear McGill is very fabulous. Montreal is a great city and apparently McGill has a really good social life.
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If you go to MIT for PoliSci you have to coach the CSL team. Just sayin... :X
Oh and regarding your Career Services center, surely they have some contacts that might help you get a job for that year off you're planning on taking, no?
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I can't offer advice for your specific programs, but I'm doing a masters right now in computer science and will soon be doing a phd. The advice I can offer, though, is that unless you got 170+ on LSAT and are graduating near the top of your class gpa wise, there is a decent chance you'll be rejected from every one of those schools (not sure about McGill though) since you are coming from ucsd, which is a good school but is not at the top. As such, you'll be ranked lower than people from ivies etc right off the bat.
Yes, you should go for the best, but you should also fill out about ten more applications to 2nd tier schools once you have decided exactly what you want to do in order to make sure you don't get completely screwed when decisions come. Doing 15 or more applications is absolutely essential for the programs you are considering applying to.
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UBC lawschool obv and come organize lan events for Vancouver
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My father worked for several years as a lawyer at one of the UN International Criminal Tribunals, though he's a Criminal Lawyer (who went to law school at McGill) rather than a specialist in International Law. On your behalf, I've asked him which universities come to mind as having strong International Law programs, based on his work with colleagues there who were International Law specialists. Bear in mind that this is for a pure law school approach rather than a combined degree with Poli Sci, but here's what he had to suggest as high-end International Law schools that you may also want to look into and eventually consider if that's where your focus is going to lie:
DePaul University (Chicago) [Specifically Prof. Bassione as a top name in the field]
Case Western Reserve (Cleveland)
Cambridge University (UK) [Lauderpack school of Humanitarian Law]
University of Amsterdam (Netherlands)
NIU Galway (Ireland) [look into Prof. William Schabas]
He was also quick to mention that Israeli universities, while not as impressive on a CV, are very heavily invested in International Law programs as they deal with international law issues very frequently in their national politics.
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I'm Iranian - I don't think going to an Israeli school would really be possible for me haha T__T!
By the way, is it bad that I'd be taking CSL into account for where I want to ultimately go (sure it's like <10%, but I'm literally going to consider the SC scene of any school I look at going to... so sad)
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I'm pretty ignorant about that particular facet of Iran/Israel relations, but that seems like a very relevant point!
I think you can probably do without taking CSL directly into account - you can find players (of varying quality!) at any large enough university, but that's your call. Being in a large urban centre will probably serve you just as well, because any big enough university will have Starcraft players in it. If they aren't in the CSL now, they might just need your organizational savvy.
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EPT
