Place yer bets! I plan to do a bunch of these threads to familiarize people with different units stats and upgrades. After polls run for a day or two, I'll post results and videos.
What wins? A Zealot with 1 attack upgrade or a Zealot with Charge/Legs upgrade? (and other similar tests)
TL was mostly correct. This was kind of a dumb test tbh, because shift focusing all the zealots as they move around ends up making them look like a cat chasing it's tail, so in that event the charge lots would win, but in another case the +1 would win. Overall Focus Queing melee is kinda dumb if there is no micro after that. So we did another test where FQ vs AM and AM smoked.
TL was half correct. Disregarding the funny bug. Again, like the 5v5 FQ test, it's kinda dumb. Almost always better to attack move and make select grups within that group focus the surface/nearby targets.
Nice idea. I'd be surprised if charge makes much of a difference in zeal vs zeal battles. I don't know much about PvP, but I think zealot vs stalker or zealot vs zealot/colossus would be more relevant.
I'll let this poll run a few days, but we already tested it. Very interesting and surprising results (including a bug). I'll get the videos up after that.
this seems relevant in the sense that in zvz speed for Zlings is a huge advantage if your opponent opted for no speed and it would be nice to know the difference between charge/nocharge and etc. although with the unit pathing charge would seem to make a lot of sense to get because it would seem that it vs say +1 seem about equal and with no charge you could get so many more hits in before the zealots in the back start attacking
On March 21 2010 12:37 justiceknight wrote: i prefer this poll comes with the videos otherwise its 1/5 for this blog
yea, the whole point is so people can vote, then see the results later and see how they were wrong/right. If the results are in the op to start, then people will cheat..
with charge, the only benefit it that you hit first, but since zealots takes lots of hit to kill, the +1 attack will eventually give enough dmg to off set the first hit. I don't see any reason why charge will beat +1. +1 wins all the way
On March 21 2010 21:46 Marradron wrote: most likely zealots with no upgrades beat the charge ones .
just out of curiosity why would you think this?
Maybe because the defending Zeals AI (the one without charge) is faster to respond, and the charging one has a slight delay after charge? I don't know, please tell us =)
Edit: Oh, it can also be that the non-charge Zealot can hit the charging zealot during the animation, when it changes target. Hence getting the first hit
I thought regen roaches would win. For this one I think the +1 will win the first set, then charge will win the second set vs +0.
Unless charge gives Zealots an extra attack or something in addition to charge then charge wont even matter when up against +1. But it will help get the upper hand vs zealots not upgraded at all.
On March 22 2010 08:08 Chuiu wrote: I thought regen roaches would win. For this one I think the +1 will win the first set, then charge will win the second set vs +0.
Unless charge gives Zealots an extra attack or something in addition to charge then charge wont even matter when up against +1. But it will help get the upper hand vs zealots not upgraded at all.
Tests are done, Results are in and polls taken down.
lol sorry for lagging so hard on the results, I actually had the videos up a few days ago I just dodn't get around to renaming them and formatting them into the post for this thread:
U = upgraded C = Charged N = Not Upgraded *also note that the tests of the non upgraded were actually done with 1-1-1 zealots on both sides (we calculated that the damage output and damage received was the same as 0-0-0 on both). Let us know if we were wrong.
Textual Results if you don't care about videos: 1v1 UvC = Upgrade won 5v5 UvC A-move = Upgrade won 5v5 UvC Focus Que - N/A Random(charge one once though lol) 10v10 UvC A-Move - Upgrade won 10v10 UvC Focus Que - N/A Random
1v1 NvC = Tie 5v5 NvC A-move = Tie 5v5 NvC Focus Que - N/A Random 10v10 NvC A-Move - Tie 10v10 NvC Focus Que - N/A Random
50v50 NvC A-Move - Charge won
Conclusions drawn from these tests are that charge isn't that great and doesn't make a whole lot of difference in gaining first strike or anything like zerglings in scbw (maybe I should test lings of sc2 o_O). It seems to have something to do with the walk animation to decide who gets the first hit. Since the AI in sc2 likes to fill in gaps with units, often times the zealots would charge out of the lined formation and create gaps that were just slightly too small for another zeal to fit in, but still big enough to cause him to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off. So in smaller groups it seems that charge can be worse, but unless extensive testing is done it's still inconclusive and seemingly random. However, the little gaps can still be created in the same way with non charged zeals, but it seemed lessened. Charge totally played a role in the larger 50v50 battle where 17/50 survived.
Well its good to know that when it comes to melee vs melee charge has no effect until you get to larger groups. But at least its still extremely effective vs ranged.
On March 26 2010 08:57 Marradron wrote: I though you said it would be suprising
It was, in the sense that charge didn't do shit at all and was often worse in equal upgrades because of the AI. And since everyone was voting charge to win, you can see the reverse. And also the bugs ofc.
On March 26 2010 11:22 3FFA wrote: GJ CM! Now I finally know who SpoR is. I've watched tons of vods of you on youtube(your a star, man!) but never knew who SpoR actually was.
oh, thanks ^_- Where did you see those Vods? And didn't you ever check the replay thread?
Oh I searched youtube for spor sc2 and bunch of shit came up, neat-o
EPT
thats the most stupid thing i could think of
